• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:52
CEST 01:52
KST 08:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more...
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Season 21 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW caster Sayle BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1458 users

[HotS] Thoughts, revised!!! - Page 3

Blogs > Plexa
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
September 16 2012 05:46 GMT
#41
Actually, I just looked up VR and Tempest DPS vs massive... they are frighteningly similar (15.15 DPS (Tempest) vs 15.96 DPS (VR)).
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 06:12:14
September 16 2012 05:56 GMT
#42
On September 16 2012 14:46 Antylamon wrote:
Actually, I just looked up VR and Tempest DPS vs massive... they are frighteningly similar (15.15 DPS (Tempest) vs 15.96 DPS (VR)).

yeah exactly, but voids are much cheaper with less range - there's definitely a place for both units


Tempests atm kinda serve as an anti-noobie zerg unit. You make one and harass them and then they throw their hands up in the air and go 'WTF MY SHIT CAN'T HIT THAT' and the leave the game

Hilarious.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 16 2012 06:12 GMT
#43
On September 16 2012 14:56 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 14:46 Antylamon wrote:
Actually, I just looked up VR and Tempest DPS vs massive... they are frighteningly similar (15.15 DPS (Tempest) vs 15.96 DPS (VR)).

yeah exactly, but voids are much cheaper with less range - there's definitely a place for both units


Tempests atm kinda serve as an anti-noobie unit. You make one and harass them and then they throw their hands up in the air and go 'WTF MY SHIT CAN'T HIT THAT' and the leave the game

Hilarious.

That is quite funny!

But with BCs having 100 energy Yamato now, they can take out voids in 1 shot more easily than ever before. Plus Voidray's high charged DPS against them wouldn't even have a chance to kick in. It seems they wouldn't be ideal, unless you get some feedbacks off first.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
September 16 2012 08:00 GMT
#44
I think Oracles and Carries have great synergy against lategame Zerg. I tried it out when it got to that point. I have around 3 orcacles 4 carriers and 4 tempests. Protecting my carriers and tempests from being abducted or fungaled by using phase shield. It's really awesome. For me Phase shield is becoming better and better the more I'm playing around with it. It's pretty useless against Terran though but that's fine.
Pokemon Master
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
September 16 2012 09:59 GMT
#45
On September 16 2012 17:00 Seiniyta wrote:
I think Oracles and Carries have great synergy against lategame Zerg. I tried it out when it got to that point. I have around 3 orcacles 4 carriers and 4 tempests. Protecting my carriers and tempests from being abducted or fungaled by using phase shield. It's really awesome. For me Phase shield is becoming better and better the more I'm playing around with it. It's pretty useless against Terran though but that's fine.

Yeah I'm warming up to the ability, but I'm a bit conflicted about where and when you should be aiming to use it. I tried messing around with it on a blink stalker 2 base which didn't work out so well.
On September 16 2012 15:12 Fig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 14:56 Plexa wrote:
On September 16 2012 14:46 Antylamon wrote:
Actually, I just looked up VR and Tempest DPS vs massive... they are frighteningly similar (15.15 DPS (Tempest) vs 15.96 DPS (VR)).

yeah exactly, but voids are much cheaper with less range - there's definitely a place for both units


Tempests atm kinda serve as an anti-noobie unit. You make one and harass them and then they throw their hands up in the air and go 'WTF MY SHIT CAN'T HIT THAT' and the leave the game

Hilarious.

That is quite funny!

But with BCs having 100 energy Yamato now, they can take out voids in 1 shot more easily than ever before. Plus Voidray's high charged DPS against them wouldn't even have a chance to kick in. It seems they wouldn't be ideal, unless you get some feedbacks off first.

Yes Yamato is more useful as well - which is good imo. Still, I went up against BCs the other day and the best counter to them was voids hands down (with some feedbacks). Tempests just cost too much gas to be built reactively against BCs.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
September 16 2012 10:06 GMT
#46
On September 16 2012 18:59 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 17:00 Seiniyta wrote:
I think Oracles and Carries have great synergy against lategame Zerg. I tried it out when it got to that point. I have around 3 orcacles 4 carriers and 4 tempests. Protecting my carriers and tempests from being abducted or fungaled by using phase shield. It's really awesome. For me Phase shield is becoming better and better the more I'm playing around with it. It's pretty useless against Terran though but that's fine.

Yeah I'm warming up to the ability, but I'm a bit conflicted about where and when you should be aiming to use it. I tried messing around with it on a blink stalker 2 base which didn't work out so well.


I find it also useful when you go for phoenix harrasment. Usually when infestors are out phoenix harrasment is shut down really hard but you can for example phase shield just when you see infestors. If your reaction is fast enough fungal growth doesn't affect the phoenix and you can kill them. To be honest, I think the ability might be even too strong but we'll see. It's a fun ability for sure which I made many zergs already cry.
Pokemon Master
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
September 16 2012 11:44 GMT
#47
It looks like Phase Shield is just meant as a way to stop Fungals, and doing that with air play also makes the transition into a lategame sky protoss army a lot more doable; tbh i'm ok with that. Right now Archon Toilet is just a silly way to stop a lategame, and the gas saved from going mothership+mass archons could make getting just a few Oracles, Tempests or Carriers out a lot easier.

Plexa, have you run into a Z protecting his broods with both Fungal and Blinding Cloud from Vipers, and if so, is it stronger than current Infestor/Broodlord?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Crawdad
Profile Joined September 2012
614 Posts
September 16 2012 12:02 GMT
#48
On September 16 2012 18:59 Plexa wrote:
Yes Yamato is more useful as well - which is good imo. Still, I went up against BCs the other day and the best counter to them was voids hands down (with some feedbacks). Tempests just cost too much gas to be built reactively against BCs.


Do Void Rays effectively counter Tempests in PvP? I imagine they would.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 15:49:30
September 16 2012 15:48 GMT
#49
I'm really worried that the Tempest is going to overlap with the Void Ray, which has already fallen out of a lot of its cooler uses.

I think they're on the right direction, but I hope some more tweaking is done. I don't know why they reduced the Tempest range from 22 to 15, the 22 range was what made the thing unique.

What if the Tempest had even lower DPS, but did AoE damage? That would I think make it better for plinking away at an entrenched army from a distance, but worse as a frontline combat unit. And then it would mesh with the VR better.

Good read though Plexa. Do one for every patch!
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
September 16 2012 18:48 GMT
#50
--- Nuked ---
Brutaxilos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2630 Posts
September 16 2012 23:58 GMT
#51
Can someone update me on the status of the Battlecruiser afterburners upgrade, the Ghost cloaking system, and the burrowmove banelings? Are they all gone? I can't find it online. .__.
Jangbi favorite player. Forever~ CJ herO the King of IEM. BOMBERRRRRRRR. Sexy Boy Rogue. soO #1! Oliveira China Represent!
Crawdad
Profile Joined September 2012
614 Posts
September 17 2012 01:37 GMT
#52
On September 17 2012 08:58 Brutaxilos wrote:
Can someone update me on the status of the Battlecruiser afterburners upgrade, the Ghost cloaking system, and the burrowmove banelings? Are they all gone? I can't find it online. .__.


They aren't in the beta, they've likely been scrapped.
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
September 17 2012 01:56 GMT
#53
Is a melee unit for Terran evening the odds vs the other races, considering that the lack of a cheap and effective cannon fodder is what basically made WoL Terran weaker in longer lower league matches? Or is it some other issue with spells, unit comp in the other races just being better, weak something else, etc?
im deaf
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
September 17 2012 03:53 GMT
#54
On September 16 2012 20:44 Teoita wrote:
It looks like Phase Shield is just meant as a way to stop Fungals, and doing that with air play also makes the transition into a lategame sky protoss army a lot more doable; tbh i'm ok with that. Right now Archon Toilet is just a silly way to stop a lategame, and the gas saved from going mothership+mass archons could make getting just a few Oracles, Tempests or Carriers out a lot easier.

Plexa, have you run into a Z protecting his broods with both Fungal and Blinding Cloud from Vipers, and if so, is it stronger than current Infestor/Broodlord?

Have not run into this. Most Zergs who use Vipers use them with aggressive unit compositions like Ultras, Hydra/ling etc. Stealing colossus atm is really powerful and underexploited since every zerg is using swarm hosts right now.

On September 16 2012 21:02 Crawdad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 18:59 Plexa wrote:
Yes Yamato is more useful as well - which is good imo. Still, I went up against BCs the other day and the best counter to them was voids hands down (with some feedbacks). Tempests just cost too much gas to be built reactively against BCs.


Do Void Rays effectively counter Tempests in PvP? I imagine they would.

No idea, but I suspect VRs would beat them for cost (250/150/3), stalkers might too. Keep in mind that tempests are 300/300/6
On September 17 2012 00:48 Ketara wrote:
I'm really worried that the Tempest is going to overlap with the Void Ray, which has already fallen out of a lot of its cooler uses.

I think they're on the right direction, but I hope some more tweaking is done. I don't know why they reduced the Tempest range from 22 to 15, the 22 range was what made the thing unique.
22 range was absolutely stupid. You couldn't even see the tempest and the unit it was hitting in the same screen. That is terrible for spectators. 15 range is still more than anything in the game (afaik) and still keeps its utility. VR and Tempest won't overlap, they have two very different roles.

On September 17 2012 08:58 Brutaxilos wrote:
Can someone update me on the status of the Battlecruiser afterburners upgrade, the Ghost cloaking system, and the burrowmove banelings? Are they all gone? I can't find it online. .__.

Gone, not in this patch nor the last.

On September 17 2012 10:56 imBLIND wrote:
Is a melee unit for Terran evening the odds vs the other races, considering that the lack of a cheap and effective cannon fodder is what basically made WoL Terran weaker in longer lower league matches? Or is it some other issue with spells, unit comp in the other races just being better, weak something else, etc?

It's the fact that Terran units have a higher skill requirement for each unit than the other races. A normal marine sucks, but a MKP marine is godlike. The game needs to be balanced for MKP, and that can make it rough for lower leaguers who dont have the same ability. Although really, they should be playing mech because mech kills everything at 200/200
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
September 17 2012 04:17 GMT
#55
does blinding cloud prevent non melee damage from being taken or does it just not let units see anything until they are in melee range? like a scan doesnt undo the effects of it, does it?
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
September 17 2012 05:21 GMT
#56
I'd sort of like the warhound to be brought back, but with a substantially different role.

Goliath :|
BobMcJohnson
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
France2916 Posts
September 17 2012 12:04 GMT
#57
On September 17 2012 14:21 Froadac wrote:
I'd sort of like the warhound to be brought back, but with a substantially different role.

Goliath :|


Buffing ground-mode viking by making them benefit from mech upgrades could be a cool alternative. After all the Goliath's anti air role in SC2 Mech is primarily filled by vikings.
Romanes eunt domus
joyeaux
Profile Joined May 2005
United States169 Posts
September 17 2012 15:45 GMT
#58
On September 17 2012 13:17 Aveng3r wrote:
does blinding cloud prevent non melee damage from being taken or does it just not let units see anything until they are in melee range? like a scan doesnt undo the effects of it, does it?


Max attack range for units in the AoE is reduced to melee. The spell does not affect vision, scan doesn't make it go away.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
September 17 2012 16:49 GMT
#59
On September 17 2012 21:04 BobMcJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2012 14:21 Froadac wrote:
I'd sort of like the warhound to be brought back, but with a substantially different role.

Goliath :|


Buffing ground-mode viking by making them benefit from mech upgrades could be a cool alternative. After all the Goliath's anti air role in SC2 Mech is primarily filled by vikings.

I like you, good talk.
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-17 16:55:31
September 17 2012 16:54 GMT
#60
I'd like to see Vikings have some sort of a unique upgrade. They're the only Terran unit that doesn't have its own upgrade.

I think that would be a great design goal for Blizz to have. Every unit should have its own unique upgrade, even if it's just like a speed boost. Players who want a strategy that revolves around an individual unit they like should be able to have it.

There's all kinds of unique upgrades you could give the Viking, although buffing its ground mode would be the most sensible option I think.

I guess Widow Mines don't have an upgrade now. Should have an upgrade that changes them to 1 supply!
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Safe House 2
17:00
Playoffs
TriGGeR vs Cham
Astrea vs TBD
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft469
Nathanias 106
ProTech74
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 522
Dota 2
monkeys_forever275
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe132
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor236
Other Games
summit1g9687
Grubby2170
fl0m813
Maynarde172
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick11094
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 64
• HeavenSC 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler49
League of Legends
• Doublelift5001
Other Games
• WagamamaTV279
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 8m
Monday Night Weeklies
16h 8m
Replay Cast
23h 8m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 11h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 14h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.