EPT
[VID] Thoughts on SC1 to SC2 transition in Korea
| Blogs > Moletrap |
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
Excuse me, are you fucking insane? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
All you care about are views. I'm surprised and offended that TVing let someone like you cast in the final OSL Squalid; that's what you are. | ||
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fxsoldier
68 Posts
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Empyrean
16981 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
I haven't watched it, and just from the posts here, i can glean that this video is complete bullshit and a desperate attempt to get views. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Nymphaceae
United States350 Posts
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On August 13 2012 09:04 IntoTheWow wrote: "Brood War has been stagnant in the last couple of years" Excuse me, are you fucking insane? Where is the real moletrap and what have you done with him?! | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On August 13 2012 10:26 jpak wrote: Where is the real moletrap and what have you done with him?! That is the real moletrap and we should hang him and bury him User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
his "why" bw is dead no sponsers and in the end its a business and it has no more potential even if people have a passion for it, the sponsers see sc2 as the future. He stopped watching bw since the beta of sc2 came out only recently started again feels like he still understands what's happening and therefore bw has become too stagnant. so sponsers won't want to invest into a game that doesn't get "exciting"(non-standard) games. All the producers and coworkers at OGN love bw soo much but there's no money in it and they accept it has to die, he says the top of the chain don't feel like they get enough money from bw so they are switching to sc2 even tho the low teir workers would still love to continue with bw thinks split league is genesis because from a business stand point it can take the bw fans and get them into sc2 as in Korea bw>sc2 in popularity, as it all comes down to the fans believes only the top/best OSL players are mechanically superior than gsl players his ranking of MVP back in bw compared to flash and jaedong -flash -jaedong -MVP -Hyun/forgg -boxer about 6-12 months to still OSL players are on the same level as gsl players had a interview with stork and bisu and they said they are practicing sc2 nearly 100% he is looking forward to flash and jaedong raising the sc2 skill bar when they catch up sc2 needs new mechanics to make it exciting like bw eg: reaver shuttle micro -----the end | ||
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Empyrean
16981 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On August 13 2012 09:08 Release wrote: Lol. You should go back to casting SC2. I preferred it when you couldn't pay your rent; that way, you can't upload these atrocious videos. All you care about are views. I'm surprised and offended that TVing let someone like you cast in the final OSL Squalid; that's what you are. On August 13 2012 09:36 Release wrote: I recommend you don't watch it. He just wants bw viewers to tune into his channel. I haven't watched it, and just from the posts here, i can glean that this video is complete bullshit and a desperate attempt to get views. On August 13 2012 10:37 Release wrote: That is the real moletrap and we should hang him and bury him On August 13 2012 12:24 Release wrote: poll] Damn kid you are so mad rofl, how about giving some decent criticism instead of " we should hang him and bury him". | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On August 13 2012 12:45 Megaliskuu wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 13 2012 09:08 Release wrote: Lol. You should go back to casting SC2. I preferred it when you couldn't pay your rent; that way, you can't upload these atrocious videos. All you care about are views. I'm surprised and offended that TVing let someone like you cast in the final OSL Squalid; that's what you are. On August 13 2012 09:36 Release wrote: I recommend you don't watch it. He just wants bw viewers to tune into his channel. I haven't watched it, and just from the posts here, i can glean that this video is complete bullshit and a desperate attempt to get views. On August 13 2012 10:37 Release wrote: That is the real moletrap and we should hang him and bury him On August 13 2012 12:24 Release wrote: poll] Damn kid you are so mad rofl, how about giving some decent criticism instead of " we should hang him and bury him". Don't feel like watching the vid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole thing is bull User was warned for this post | ||
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P7GAB
Canada486 Posts
On August 13 2012 12:24 Release wrote: what scene? have you seen the lr's theres like 5 people posting and wtf you havent watched it yet your bashing it based on other peoples opinions? | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
You really shouldn't criticize moletrap anymore than people like tasteless, artosis, and day[9]. Those 3 have said enough cringe inducing moments to broodwar fans that you can make a movie. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On August 13 2012 13:26 T.O.P. wrote: You guys know, all bw turned sc2 casters are like this. They get all impressed with the SC2 scene because all of a sudden the spotlight is on them. Back in the bw days where they would upload stuff on youtube and get 1000 views. It's only natural for them to forget about the past. You really shouldn't criticize moletrap anymore than people like tasteless, artosis, and day[9]. Those 3 have said enough cringe inducing moments to broodwar fans that you can make a movie. I think there are some that are more potent violators than others, but yea, good point. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On August 13 2012 13:26 T.O.P. wrote: You guys know, all bw turned sc2 casters are like this. They get all impressed with the SC2 scene because all of a sudden the spotlight is on them. Back in the bw days where they would upload stuff on youtube and get 1000 views. It's only natural for them to forget about the past. You really shouldn't criticize moletrap anymore than people like tasteless, artosis, and day[9]. Those 3 have said enough cringe inducing moments to broodwar fans that you can make a movie. Those 3 never looked back. Actually, day9 did make one the treacly posts and i gave him flak for it. Watching vid now. | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
However, I don't think SC2 will become as popular as BW among Korean amateurs because it is not a game meant to be played in PC bangs. The cost of an account and the inferior B.Net interface don't really lend it to being played outside one's home. LoL has a similar-ish interface, but is free, so its player numbers are naturally much, much higher. I won't even bother going into how BW is better than SC2 or whatever; that's been talked about to death already. But it is what it is. Professional SC2 will see spikes of interest as the KeSPA pros become good, and with the release of expansions, and then stagnate and die out in favor of whatever newfangled game comes out. Such are video games; companies make money by releasing new games, and don't really care if they kill old ones in the process. (This is also a problem with the "E-sports" label: yes, video games can be played competitively at a very high level, but no matter how good a video game is, it has no chance of lasting as long as a real sport, because even its own developer will, and must, replace it in order to stay in business.) So in conclusion, Moletrap actually made a few valid points (though he didn't really put them so well) among all the... other stuff. But to be honest, I'm not as excited as he is about SC2's prospects. Though it's a nice game and all, the entire scene seems a bit artificial, and will likely collapse as soon as sponsors find some other game to sink their money into. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On August 13 2012 16:01 ]343[ wrote: Blizzard really pushed hard to replace SC with SC2, and they did it quite successfully. It seems that the only reason high-level Koreans are switching to SC2 is the sponsorship money involved. I doubt most KeSPA players (except perhaps the B-teamers) were/are really excited about leaving behind the game they loved so much for a sort-of-but-not-really imitation, but as professional gamers, they have to go where the money is. However, I don't think SC2 will become as popular as BW among Korean amateurs because it is not a game meant to be played in PC bangs. The cost of an account and the inferior B.Net interface don't really lend it to being played outside one's home. LoL has a similar-ish interface, but is free, so its player numbers are naturally much, much higher. I won't even bother going into how BW is better than SC2 or whatever; that's been talked about to death already. But it is what it is. Professional SC2 will see spikes of interest as the KeSPA pros become good, and with the release of expansions, and then stagnate and die out in favor of whatever newfangled game comes out. Such are video games; companies make money by releasing new games, and don't really care if they kill old ones in the process. (This is also a problem with the "E-sports" label: yes, video games can be played competitively at a very high level, but no matter how good a video game is, it has no chance of lasting as long as a real sport, because even its own developer will, and must, replace it in order to stay in business.) So in conclusion, Moletrap actually made a few valid points (though he didn't really put them so well) among all the... other stuff. But to be honest, I'm not as excited as he is about SC2's prospects. Though it's a nice game and all, the entire scene seems a bit artificial, and will likely collapse as soon as sponsors find some other game to sink their money into. SC2 is free to play in a PC Bang though, you only need a battle.net account which is free. It even offers bonuses from the NA Collectors editions too if you play at a PC Bang | ||
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
Second, yes, Brood War has been relatively stagnant and more importantly is currently stagnant... there have been some innovations, but seriously most games open and evolve the same way every time. 90% of every ZvT for the last few years has been fast mutas to stall for a third, use lurkers to protect fourth, stall til defilers try to win macro game. 90% of every PvT is fast expand with a bunker, protoss pressures with ranged goons until tanks, then reaver harass into macro game. Over and over and over again. If you think Brood War is not stagnant in a way that discourages new viewership, then you are insane. My point is not that BW is bad or has not changed at all, it's that it not dynamic ENOUGH and has no potential to bring in new people. Third, people are underestimating MVP. He was in the Ro8 of the OSL just before he switched. It took Flash to beat him, in fact, because he was doing so well at the time. Sure, Sea is a good example of someone of high skill level, too, but Sea didn't switch to SC2 a year ago, did he? So he's not a very good example, eh? Who that was better than MVP at the time switched? There's NO ONE ELSE that was placing in individual leagues at the time of switching. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On August 13 2012 10:37 Release wrote: That is the real moletrap and we should hang him and bury him There have been multiple mods in this thread, why hasn't this at the very least gotten a warning? | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On August 13 2012 20:21 Moletrap wrote: Okay, first of all... no, I'm not just trying to get views. I have access to the inside of the BW scene here and I'm trying to share some of the things I've noticed. There have been all these threads and comments asking why BW can't continue, and I'm trying to respond to that. My goal has always been, since the years I did this for free (and I don't really make very much money even now), to try to help people connect with the Korean scene. I put this video on Youtube and a lot of people said they appreciated hearing what I had to say, so i thought I'd share it with more people. Second, yes, Brood War has been relatively stagnant and more importantly is currently stagnant... there have been some innovations, but seriously most games open and evolve the same way every time. 90% of every ZvT for the last few years has been fast mutas to stall for a third, use lurkers to protect fourth, stall til defilers try to win macro game. 90% of every PvT is fast expand with a bunker, protoss pressures with ranged goons until tanks, then reaver harass into macro game. Over and over and over again. If you think Brood War is not stagnant in a way that discourages new viewership, then you are insane. My point is not that BW is bad or has not changed at all, it's that it not dynamic ENOUGH and has no potential to bring in new people. Third, people are underestimating MVP. He was in the Ro8 of the OSL just before he switched. It took Flash to beat him, in fact, because he was doing so well at the time. Sure, Sea is a good example of someone of high skill level, too, but Sea didn't switch to SC2 a year ago, did he? So he's not a very good example, eh? Who that was better than MVP at the time switched? There's NO ONE ELSE that was placing in individual leagues at the time of switching. I think u misunderstood what i was trying to say, maybe i put it badly, but i was simply saying that. The place where u put MVP (which was pretty close to Flash) is off (imo, that kinda of closeness should be someone like sea) and u cant disagree at the time where MVP played bw, if i asked u who was the better player sea or MVP ur answer no doubt would have been sea. I'm not talking about comparing the bw--->sc2 skill. Also the fact that it took Flash to beat him, still really isnt enough u could say that for all the players flash has beaten in the osl, that they COULD have gone to the finals if it werent for Flash. Also players have bad days and good days so getting into the Ro8 in the OSL while that is VERY VERY VERY good, if u dont do it consistently well it could have very well been a fluke. I dont think Mvp had that consistency back than especially compared to sea (i'm talking only bw no sc2 involved) | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
On August 13 2012 20:46 MCDayC wrote: There have been multiple mods in this thread, why hasn't this at the very least gotten a warning? Because they're being biased just because Moletrap (according to them) is wrong. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 13 2012 20:21 Moletrap wrote: Okay, first of all... no, I'm not just trying to get views. I have access to the inside of the BW scene here and I'm trying to share some of the things I've noticed. There have been all these threads and comments asking why BW can't continue, and I'm trying to respond to that. My goal has always been, since the years I did this for free (and I don't really make very much money even now), to try to help people connect with the Korean scene. I put this video on Youtube and a lot of people said they appreciated hearing what I had to say, so i thought I'd share it with more people. Second, yes, Brood War has been relatively stagnant and more importantly is currently stagnant... there have been some innovations, but seriously most games open and evolve the same way every time. 90% of every ZvT for the last few years has been fast mutas to stall for a third, use lurkers to protect fourth, stall til defilers try to win macro game. 90% of every PvT is fast expand with a bunker, protoss pressures with ranged goons until tanks, then reaver harass into macro game. Over and over and over again. If you think Brood War is not stagnant in a way that discourages new viewership, then you are insane. My point is not that BW is bad or has not changed at all, it's that it not dynamic ENOUGH and has no potential to bring in new people. Third, people are underestimating MVP. He was in the Ro8 of the OSL just before he switched. It took Flash to beat him, in fact, because he was doing so well at the time. Sure, Sea is a good example of someone of high skill level, too, but Sea didn't switch to SC2 a year ago, did he? So he's not a very good example, eh? Who that was better than MVP at the time switched? There's NO ONE ELSE that was placing in individual leagues at the time of switching. Meh, I would rank Baby, Sea, Letal, Skyhigh, and 10 other Terrans better than MVP. And you must not have seen ZvZ Circa 2010. Or when Bisu revamped the entire PvZ matchup. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On August 13 2012 22:46 Xiphos wrote: Meh, I would rank Baby, Sea, Letal, Skyhigh, and 10 other Terrans better than MVP. And you must not have seen ZvZ Circa 2010. Or when Bisu revamped the entire PvZ matchup. Or TvT 2011 when Wraith+Valkyries became an alternative to Dropship play Or ZvT when queens became one of the answers to Terran mech. And MVP was in the Ro8 of the MSL, not OSL. Get your facts straight before posting. It makes what is already an invalid point look even sillier. It only feels stagnant now because pros know that BW will disappear in a month or 2 from now. Why bother innovating when you're not going to play it competitively anymore? | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Little Rant] + I honestly disagree with MVP being somewhat close to Flash-Jaedong at the time of MVP's last few months of BW. He did get to Ro8 in that one MSL (Hana Daetoo MSL iirc), yes, but his other games in PL and even some of those in MSL were largely unimpressive. It could have been stage pressure (which he learned to cope with better as he transitioned into SC2). You said you watched a few BW games here and then after the release of SC2... and that they were stagnant. Fair point on a small sample size, but as a regular viewer I didn't feel that the strategies had gone stagnant at all. As mentioned above by other fellow TLers, there has been major shifts (like wraiths becoming standard in mid- and late- TvT) and also a revival of old, classic strategies (like 2-gate opening in PvZ). I'd cautiously argue that due to the wider spectrum of strategies available and some of the map-specific perks, the game has been fun to watch throughout the seasons and especially so in the past few years. Anyhow, one thing I want to add is that "BW fans" stay at the OGN studio to watch the entire match from the SC1 set to SC2 and possibly the ace match because the OGN broadcasting is fantastic. Some, sure, probably stay because they have nothing better to do so they might as well watch a couple video games. Some maybe because they are rabid fan girls who would love to catch a glimpse of their idol cracking a satisfied smile after a victory. However, anybody can check results within seconds of the deciding set so I don't think they stay to check the result itself. The fact is that the eSports fans in Korea have grown accustomed to the familiar passionate voices of the OGN (+ex-MBC) casters and simply hearing them cast a game makes them (and me too) feel good. Very few foreign fans will understand this sentiment... but most of us native Korean speakers do. I have quite a few friends in Korea that follow eSports closely - and they say (unanimously) that the GOMTV cast is unbearable and that they prefer to watch the OGN-produced PL for the entertainment value. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 13 2012 20:21 Moletrap wrote: Okay, first of all... no, I'm not just trying to get views. I have access to the inside of the BW scene here and I'm trying to share some of the things I've noticed. There have been all these threads and comments asking why BW can't continue, and I'm trying to respond to that. My goal has always been, since the years I did this for free (and I don't really make very much money even now), to try to help people connect with the Korean scene. I put this video on Youtube and a lot of people said they appreciated hearing what I had to say, so i thought I'd share it with more people. Second, yes, Brood War has been relatively stagnant and more importantly is currently stagnant... there have been some innovations, but seriously most games open and evolve the same way every time. 90% of every ZvT for the last few years has been fast mutas to stall for a third, use lurkers to protect fourth, stall til defilers try to win macro game. 90% of every PvT is fast expand with a bunker, protoss pressures with ranged goons until tanks, then reaver harass into macro game. Over and over and over again. If you think Brood War is not stagnant in a way that discourages new viewership, then you are insane. My point is not that BW is bad or has not changed at all, it's that it not dynamic ENOUGH and has no potential to bring in new people. Third, people are underestimating MVP. He was in the Ro8 of the OSL just before he switched. It took Flash to beat him, in fact, because he was doing so well at the time. Sure, Sea is a good example of someone of high skill level, too, but Sea didn't switch to SC2 a year ago, did he? So he's not a very good example, eh? Who that was better than MVP at the time switched? There's NO ONE ELSE that was placing in individual leagues at the time of switching. It doesn't seem like you even read them from the sound of it. You think you know a lot more than you actually do. Just because OGN decided to pick you up because you are there doesn't make your assumptions any more right. The rest is bullshit and shows us exactly how little understanding you actually have of the game. The discouragement doesn't come from your assumptions. It comes from the basic principles of the gaming industry as a whole. There are a lot more barrier to entries so save your stupid dynamic talk for somewhere else. MVP was the only mediocre player to switch at the time. Ro8 is nothing. Doing it once is nothing. Enjoy Korea. | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On August 13 2012 22:46 Xiphos wrote: Meh, I would rank Baby, Sea, Letal, Skyhigh, and 10 other Terrans better than MVP. And you must not have seen ZvZ Circa 2010. Or when Bisu revamped the entire PvZ matchup. At my PC Bang quote above: hm, guess I was misinformed... so SC2 is actively being overlooked for other games; interesting. On MVP: At the time, off the top of my head: Flash, Light, Fantasy, Leta were definitely better. Really was ahead of MVP in Woongjin's lineup (and Woongjin Terrans were already laughable, like SKT Zergs.) I think Sea, Baby, ForGG, Skyhigh, Mind, perhaps FBH were all at least as good as MVP at the time. Hell, Canata even took Jaedong to 5 games around then. So he was maybe a top-10 Terran, and second-string on his own team. I don't think anyone but Stars fans missed his retirement that much. | ||
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Ludwigvan
Germany2371 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:05 Rekrul wrote: stick with lol faggot This deserves a warning. Reporting doesn't work obv. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:56 Ludwigvan wrote: Why all the hate? Good job, Moletrap. I don't see anything offensive in your video. Maybe others will come to a different conclusion, but then they should argue against it. This deserves a warning. Reporting doesn't work obv. I rather have the video to be offensive than to contain stuff pulled out from the endpoint of the digestive system. And that's is exactly why people are making compelling points against the atrocity. But you should have know this by now since you have obviously read the thread. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:54 ]343[ wrote: At my PC Bang quote above: hm, guess I was misinformed... so SC2 is actively being overlooked for other games; interesting. On MVP: At the time, off the top of my head: Flash, Light, Fantasy, Leta were definitely better. Really was ahead of MVP in Woongjin's lineup (and Woongjin Terrans were already laughable, like SKT Zergs.) I think Sea, Baby, ForGG, Skyhigh, Mind, perhaps FBH were all at least as good as MVP at the time. Hell, Canata even took Jaedong to 5 games around then. So he was maybe a top-10 Terran, and second-string on his own team. I don't think anyone but Stars fans missed his retirement that much. Everyone that I've talked in Korea about SC1 vs SC2 was pretty much this ... "SC2 is just not fun." and no one could point out exactly why it wasn't fun, but I can tell you that a lot of my friends, people who've come from other RTS games, have just said it's not fun. It's pretty sad since you see everyone in the PC Bangs playing LoL, or Sudden Attack these days, and if you find 1-2 people playing SC2, it's almost always a custom game. | ||
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
The 50% who liked sc2 were like "new graphics are cool and new units" was the main argument. I think the reason is why sc2 is so unpopular is still going back to the law fight between blizzard and kespa. In addition Mike Morhaime tried to fail even more everytime he spoke and the recent problems with Diablo 3 gave blizzard again bad reputation. Korean see sc2 as a blizzard game and sc:bw as a "korean" game. In the pc bang you see most of the time LoL, Diablo 3, some Korean game (mmorpg, sudden attack etc.) and then sc2 | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
On August 13 2012 13:09 Release wrote: Don't feel like watching the vid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole thing is bull User was warned for this post The real question is how the fuck arent you banned for saying this shit. Just because its moletrap and hes talking about broodwar in a way you don't like, doesn't allow you to act like a prick. | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On August 14 2012 01:33 Chexx wrote: For me it was 50%~ who liked sc2 and the others just said that they will only watch bw because they grew up with it. The 50% who liked sc2 were like "new graphics are cool and new units" was the main argument. I think the reason is why sc2 is so unpopular is still going back to the law fight between blizzard and kespa. In addition Mike Morhaime tried to fail even more everytime he spoke and the recent problems with Diablo 3 gave blizzard again bad reputation. Korean see sc2 as a blizzard game and sc:bw as a "korean" game. In the pc bang you see most of the time LoL, Diablo 3, some Korean game (mmorpg, sudden attack etc.) and then sc2 Ah, I can believe this. Blizzard probably alienated Koreans quite a bit with the IP rights stuff, and Mike Morhaime was basically an ass during all of the last OSL games. Interesting. On August 14 2012 01:59 Masq wrote: The real question is how the fuck arent you banned for saying this shit. Just because its moletrap and hes talking about broodwar in a way you don't like, doesn't allow you to act like a prick. Don't worry, he got banned. "I didn't watch the video, but I want to flame this guy because I dislike him"... lol. (At least flame him after you watch!  ) | ||
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meteorskunk
Canada546 Posts
as for the apparently inevitable transition of the broodwar players into starcraft 2, i really hope pro league can continue with starcraft to. the team play spiced up the competitive starcraft so much in my opinion, along with it all being live. the production value is just so good, About the Broodwar pros specifically, even though i know that this topic has probably been waaay over done on team liquid and reddit, my opinion is that the skills that separate s-class from a-class players in broodwar do not necessarily transfer to sc2. there were way more mistakes to make in broodwar, and the best made less mistakes. i don't see flash or jaedong dominating because the games are simply very different. The video was slightly enlightening, because i'd heard proleaguers were playing sc2 now but i didn't know the reasoning nor the format. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On August 13 2012 20:21 Moletrap wrote: Third, people are underestimating MVP. He was in the Ro8 of the OSL just before he switched. It took Flash to beat him, in fact, because he was doing so well at the time. Sure, Sea is a good example of someone of high skill level, too, but Sea didn't switch to SC2 a year ago, did he? So he's not a very good example, eh? Who that was better than MVP at the time switched? There's NO ONE ELSE that was placing in individual leagues at the time of switching. It always amuses me when people try to defend MVP's BW career. They're just utterly delusional and it's kinda adorable. First, MVP's career win total is 39%. His best matchup, he's still just 43%. These aren't the numbers of a good player. I shouldn't even have to say anything beyond this, but... Let's discount that, and assume MVP's career started from the time he made his MSL run, we shall see he played 21 games, going 10-11. At the height of his career, he had a losing record. From the start of MVP's MSL run, fOrGG went 38-37 before retiring, and made the Ro8 of the very next MSL, where he too was defeated by Flash. This was hardly at the peak of fOrGG's career, but he still managed to match MVP's accomplishments. I realize you're trying to defend the star of your game, but admire him for his foresight in switching and making a career where he had none, rather than pretending he was good beforehand. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Nymphaceae
United States350 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:44 Nymphaceae wrote: So how do we get more people to go back to BW instead of SC2? Thanks for your comments Moletrap. Could you imagine how much money blizzard could make if they started to resell their BW games, and fixed their ladder system. I don't think BW is on it's way out, but it should be pushed again. Lol honesty if Blizzard made an upgraded Ladder of BW with HD graphics but keep the identical codes in the engine, they would sell more copies than sc2. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:10 Xiphos wrote: Lol honesty if Blizzard made an upgraded Ladder of BW with HD graphics but keep the identical codes in the engine, they would sell more copies than sc2. dont see why they couldn't do what dota2 and LoL have which is free to play but rely on other small viable customizations that don't change the game like new models or decals ect than they could put LAN in because than they don't need to worry about pirate copies of the game, and who would go dl it off another site if blizzard gave it away for free, more players willing to play and hence a bigger scene, it's the reason LoL and dota are so popular | ||
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nbaker
United States1341 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:18 Shock710 wrote: dont see why they couldn't do what dota2 and LoL have which is free to play but rely on other small viable customizations that don't change the game like new models or decals ect than they could put LAN in because than they don't need to worry about pirate copies of the game, and who would go dl it off another site if blizzard gave it away for free, more players willing to play and hence a bigger scene, it's the reason LoL and dota are so popular SC2 was developed in an older era with a different, more conventional business model in mind, before the rise of F2P games like DotA2 and LoL. Heck, the desire to fully focus on making it an "eSport" didn't materialize until partway through the development process. LoL was released in 2009, and it would've been hard to predict if its F2P model would succeed back then. DotA2 wasn't even announced until October of 2010, and its F2P model wasn't even announced until sometime this year. SC2 was developed to be a conventional sequel and it ended up as a conventional sequel. In hindsight, it's easy to see how well the f2p concept can do, but it would've been almost a suicidal gamble to implement back then for a AAA blockbuster title like SC2. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
or an even broader point of view "so u just build shit and win?" "so u just hit the ball and win?" Player styles also influence the game regardless of build, two zergs might be doing the standard 3hatch muta but one might make more zerglings to put on some aggression the other will save larvae for drones and put down sunkens instead, imagine chess there are certain lines that are popular and people know the broad sense to them but each player brings a little twist to it, and there's nothing wrong with playing standard because I rather see flash go for his standard bio into late game tank vulture executed perfectly than some pro just going for mass valks or something vs toss, there's a point where u want to win in pro games not show off to get more viewers, there are show matches for that. why don't u see tennis players doing back flips before hitting the ball, sure it's interesting to new viewers but the people who love and learn to understand the game would be "wtf is he doing...just hit it no need to do random shit" if ur suggesting that there needs to be crazy games...well no because if I'm a new viewer and I have no idea about bw seeing mm vs Lurkers compared to mass devourer vs scouts isn't going to mean a thing they need to learn the game and once they have they realise what's the most optimal way to win the game and then can admire the beauty of the game. if u have no idea wtf is going on, no matter how crazy shit gets ur probaby not gonna care. Maybe ur saying it doesn't need to be super crazy only a bit more exciting? new builds? well we see that as well in bw every now and again why? because u have to understand the game, it's because those builds rely on surprise, u cant be doing them all the time, if the other player knew, u would have a higher chance of losing, why rely on luck than ur skill to play in pro games this is ur life when ur a progamer. play to be the best not for the money and fans will come. They play because they love the game and it happens they can get paid from it, not because they get paid they play. there's a difference... | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
for me video just rehashed what most people knew/had been saying, which is disappointing since moletrap is actually at ogn. Though I don't know how anyone can call the hybrid league genius. People have brains, they know that this terrible shit hybrid league is just a gimmick. That alone makes me question whether moletrap really was speaking entirely freeminded; in the back of his mind would he really take a dump in his employer (whose commentators/employees have to work for kespa too) or in a game that got him to korea and started his payed commentating career in the firstplace with scToo? Same with all the other ogn employees--if kespa agrees with blizzard to play sc2, they won't just completely publically hate it. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On August 14 2012 05:17 blade55555 wrote: Well MVP sure wasn't bad at bw, was he flash/jaedong good? No but he made the ro8 of a huge bw tournament that most players never even qualify for. Again he may not have been omg super gosu but he was obviously good ^_^. If he was obviously good, he would have at least won more than he lost. He's below average at best, or if I may be more honest, pretty fuckin' bad. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:18 Shock710 wrote: dont see why they couldn't do what dota2 and LoL have which is free to play but rely on other small viable customizations that don't change the game like new models or decals ect than they could put LAN in because than they don't need to worry about pirate copies of the game, and who would go dl it off another site if blizzard gave it away for free, more players willing to play and hence a bigger scene, it's the reason LoL and dota are so popular The current Blizzard have BW envy. | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
My brother who has never played Starcraft or browsed teamliquid has a burning hatred for you because you even managed to ruin LoL for him. Get a day job. | ||
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