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Capitalsim - Page 3

Blogs > thrawn2112
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sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-22 20:15:50
July 22 2012 19:56 GMT
#41
On July 23 2012 04:53 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2012 00:12 sam!zdat wrote:
On July 22 2012 16:43 Birdie wrote:
The USA isn't and never has been a truly capitalist country. Hong Kong was pretty close to being one at one stage, but there are very few instances of proper laissez-faire capitalism.


Because that's as much of a pipe dream as soviet central planning. Capitalists don't even want laissez-faire, they just want government intervening how THEY want.

Hong Kong had an amazing economy when there was little to no government interference. Once China owned HK the economy slowed down; not much because China was careful to not interfere too much on such a good cash cow but somewhat. And plenty of capitalists want laissez-faire...


They say they do. Actually wanting it is a different thing. They just naturalize the things they want the government to do, and insist on the artificiality of everything else.

For example, capitalists want the government to enforce intellectual property laws, which is not laissez-faire. (edit: they also want them to give them subsidies, protect them from foreign competition, restrain labor power, etc etc) (edit again: on the other side of things, capitalists also want government to break monopolies, which is not laissez-faire either)

Can't comment on the history of Hong Kong as I haven't studied it. Given the nature of its history as an entrepot, however, considering HK as a self-contained entity which illustrates the validity of some particular economic paradigm is exceedingly disingenuous.
shikata ga nai
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 22 2012 20:20 GMT
#42
For example, capitalists want the government to
enforce intellectual property laws, which is not
laissez-faire. (edit: they also want them to give them
subsidies, protect them from foreign competition,
restrain labor power, etc etc) (edit again: on the
other side of things, capitalists also want government to break monopolies, which is not
laissez-faire either)

None of those things are laissez-faire, as you pointed out; proponents of a free market don't want any of them, because they interfere with the market, which generally results in a worse outcome for both businesses and the consumer. You must talk to different capitalists than I fairly socialist capitalists.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-22 20:29:03
July 22 2012 20:27 GMT
#43
If you think most american/transnational corporations are "fairly socialist," then yeah, I guess.

My point here is just to indicate the disconnect between the ideology of the haut-bourgeoisie and their actual policy interests.

People who both profess to be and actually are liberals are a different story, with their own problems. In this case, it's a genuine (if ill-informed and magical/fetishistic) belief in the benevolence of markets. The haut-bourgeoisie talks about the market as a cover for conspiring against it, while the libertarian political economist is a true believer. The first is sinister, the second merely silly.

edit: libertarianism is class struggle of the petit-bourgeoisie against the haut-bourgeoisie
shikata ga nai
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
July 23 2012 04:16 GMT
#44
In other news, I really wish we could have capitalsim instead of capitalism, things would go much nicer and people could still have their fun
shikata ga nai
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25558 Posts
July 23 2012 07:48 GMT
#45
On July 23 2012 13:16 sam!zdat wrote:
In other news, I really wish we could have capitalsim instead of capitalism, things would go much nicer and people could still have their fun


Your wish is my command! www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=355100

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 23 2012 15:15 GMT
#46
On July 21 2012 16:19 thrawn2112 wrote:
I've seen a lot of hate for capitalism lately


I haven't.

And that's a big part of the problem.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
July 23 2012 15:54 GMT
#47
On July 24 2012 00:15 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 16:19 thrawn2112 wrote:
I've seen a lot of hate for capitalism lately


I haven't.

And that's a big part of the problem.

Here Here! Speaking poorly of capitalism, at least via my experience of being born and raised in the US, is a surefire way to get average Americans to label you a heretic. God, the Bible, the Constitution, Capitalism. All are worshipped like deities, and it is now high time that Moses come back down Mt. Sinai and tear down the golden cow of self-assured idea slavery!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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