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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
Reading all these things makes me sooo angry. You know what - fuck you Lance, fuck you and fuck your doctors, fuck all the people from the USA cycling federation covering all this shit for 20 years. You are going to destroy one of the most manly sports, which is a real test for the human physical boundaries. Good job! /rant    | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
Here is the flipside though, what if the majority of cyclists are users? Does that redeem his comeback? I don't know, he was a legend but this shit really tarnishes him and the sport. | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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RoninShogun
United States315 Posts
All in all the whole thing seems like it should be so black and white: do the tests that, in this case, Armstrong took indicate that he was doping, or not, and that should be the end of it, but testimonials and donations and stuff like that really screw with what we know about what actually happened. On a more interesting note regarding bribery and the Tour de France, you should read about Jean Robic and his 1947 victory. | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
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ModernAgeShaman
Norway484 Posts
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Rogatien
Belize2 Posts
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:24 Rogatien wrote: why is there more doping in Cycling than in other olympic sports? Historically there isn't. The sheer scale of doping in the Olympics has been covered up pretty well. The systematic doping in eastern bloc countries was absurd. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
that's some crazy shit. all those lance armstrong motivational posters I saw growing up...  | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:24 Rogatien wrote: why is there more doping in Cycling than in other olympic sports? you never know, swimming, athletics, weightlifting... just look at the results of the recent Olympic games, world records are falling like autumn leafs. At the same time the only people caught with doping are athletes from some third world countries. Corruption is all over the IOC and the Olympic idea is forgotten and replaced with capitalism and making money out of the sport. | ||
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ModernAgeShaman
Norway484 Posts
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:29 J1.au wrote: Historically there isn't. The sheer scale of doping in the Olympics has been covered up pretty well. The systematic doping in eastern bloc countries was absurd. Realistically anyone who can compete with cheaters is somewhat likely to be also cheating. At least in sports that rely almost completely on strength and stamina. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
The sport stays incredible and the fights in the mountains are still heroic! Spread the love for cycling, Cycling is just miles in front of other sports when it comes to taking the doping out the sport, no other sport has so many drugtests! | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:24 Rogatien wrote: why is there more doping in Cycling than in other olympic sports? because they test way more, every cyclist gets like 5 out of competition test during the year, and for example in the tour almost every rider gets atleast tested twice. | ||
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MadNeSs
Denmark1507 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:55 michielbrands wrote: Don't give up your love on cycling because of this.... Look at the new generation who plays the game its ment to be played, cheaters currently stand no chance (see Riccardo Ricco for example). Perhaps it was a bit naive from you to think Armstrong was the one who wans't guilty, taking in consideration that all his contenders (Ulrich, Basso, Pantani, Virenque, etc.) all used doping and weren't able to beat him. But also take in consideration that even tough he used doping the things he did were incredible and in the tour almost the impossible is ask from a rider, its no surprise that the tour has been made a lot "easier" the last couple of years due to that reason. But please keep supporting the new "clean" guys like A. & F. Schleck, V. Nibali, C. Evans, B. Mollema, R. Gesink, R. Hesjedal, C. Froome, B. Wiggins etc. If by "clean" you mean "less juiced" you should indeed keep supporting those guys ! You really believe that bs ? http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/tour-notebook-stage-15-froome-battles-parasite-media-cars-expelled_230162 | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On July 17 2012 17:07 MadNeSs wrote: I'm sorry havent followed this much, what is it that has happended? Has Lance Armstrong admitted to using doping or something? No he hasn't admitted it, but his former teammates and associates have. They have implicated him in the doping. It's pretty damning stuff. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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MadNeSs
Denmark1507 Posts
And sorry to sound so harsh, but that's just the harsh reality of cycling imo. So I'm not really surprised that he has used doping (like everybody else anyways). But that's just my oppinion. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
On July 17 2012 17:33 MadNeSs wrote: Well, I for once is not really surprised tbh. I've never understood why people watched this stuff, since it's so obv that they all just doped up. I mean after most Tourde de Frances the like top 15 has admitted that they've used (exept for the winner), and do you honestly believe that someone can beat all these doped up players without using doping themselves? I dont understand why ppl are so surprised about Armstrong, he beat everyone for 7 years (I think it was) straight, and never got busted for doping, but that doesnt mean that he didnt do it. I think that the cyclist have just found new ways to avoid get busted, like taking smaller dozes or something, I dont know - The point is, they're all doped anyways, they might as well just making it legal for ppl to use doping. Then we could see how fast the human body could do it, and they would win every stage in liek 2 hours, and they'd all have swollen muscles, where you can see all there vains, and they'll probably die at age 30. But hey it's still better than how they do it now, where everybody claims they dont use doping, when infact they do - Even Lance Armstrong. And sorry to sound so harsh, but that's just the harsh reality of cycling imo. So I'm not really surprised that he has used doping (like everybody else anyways). But that's just my oppinion. Lots of stuff riders used in the past weren't forbidden at that time, so were they actually using doping at all. You act like this only happens at Cycling, but why should they use more or less doping then other sports... to make it even more intresting, why would you use doping? to gain more money! so in which sports would doping be the most logical choice: Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Tennis etc. not cycling. People start cycling because they love it, not because its cool or common, in the past riders who were good and didn't use started to get owned in the late 80s, early 90s by riders they owned before (Doping users), this caused frustrations which lead to them using as well. When you comparise the current times in time travels and climb times, they are a lot less fast then they were like 10 years ago, while the material and the trainings technics all developed, this says enough about the fact that the sport gets cleaner! | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
As for Lance Armstrong, it's impossible he's not guilty of something like EPO. He was so much stronger than the others, when all his competitors were users. There actually isn't anyone that can come even close to his speeds in this age. He was very talented, of course, perhaps he would have won the tour had everyone been clean, but he's still a cheater who has a lot of nerve to turn his life into an inspirational story without acknowledging the dark sides of it. | ||
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MadNeSs
Denmark1507 Posts
On July 17 2012 20:45 Grumbels wrote: Don't just say "let them use doping, everyone does it anyway". No, they don't anymore, because it's so hard to get away with it. I'm sure there's still doping use in the tour, but there are a lot more clean cyclists now, perhaps cyclists that used to not be able to compete because of the cheaters. And doping is hardly good for you, there are enough stories of people that nearly killed themselves getting doped up. As for Lance Armstrong, it's impossible he's not guilty of something like EPO. He was so much stronger than the others, when all his competitors were users. There actually isn't anyone that can come even close to his speeds in this age. He was very talented, of course, perhaps he would have won the tour had everyone been clean, but he's still a cheater who has a lot of nerve to turn his life into an inspirational story without acknowledging the dark sides of it. Keep telling yourself that. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
jezus just read 3 words further and you wouldn't have to place your comment.....Read someones posts good before reacting on it! | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32097 Posts
It is really sad to learn that your favorite team or player cheated like a mother fucker though. Thank god I'm not a big baseball fan. Hockey players are just mostly hopped up on sudafed. Then again, I love football. Meh. | ||
zatic
Zurich15357 Posts
1996 Biarne Ries - biggest busted joke of all time 1997 Jan Ulrich - busted 1998 Marco Pantani - busted 1999 - 2006 Lance Armstrong - (basically) busted 2007 Floyd Landis - busted 2008 Alberto Contador - busted 2009 Carlos Sastre - probably clean. Won the tour when all favorites where banned for doping 2010 Alberto Contador - busted 2011 Cadel Evans - probably clean Great sport! | ||
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Gogleion
United States534 Posts
The teammates calling Lance out for doping were convicted of doping. This was well over a year ago, and they still haven't been able to find evidence that ties Lance to doping. And every single drug test he's ever taken for doping has been clean. But, then again Chris Carmichael is a really huge asshole if you've ever met him. He's really in it for the money and it wouldn't surprise me if he had one of his athletes to dope so that they can become artificially stronger athletes and make him more famous. BTW Zatic: Those people finished first in the Tour, but they aren't recognized as winners. Technically, all of the winners today are clean because all the found dopers are stripped of the title. | ||
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Gogleion
United States534 Posts
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=lance armstrong doping | ||
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zatic
Zurich15357 Posts
On July 17 2012 23:49 Gogleion wrote: BTW Zatic: Those people finished first in the Tour, but they aren't recognized as winners. Technically, all of the winners today are clean because all the found dopers are stripped of the title. AFAIK only Landis and Contador have lost their titles. All the other convicted and admitted dopers can still carry their winner titles. Fucking joke. Also often enough cheaters will test clean and witnesses are the only way to get them. Bjarne Ries is probably the biggest juicer in history and he never failed a test. Partly because the technology wasn't there yet and because oversight was much laxer in the 90ies. Still, just look at the list, even if you take out Armstrong it's still just a joke. | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
Sad to see how many dopers there are in cycling too... | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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vanskater
United States146 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:55 michielbrands wrote: Don't give up your love on cycling because of this.... Look at the new generation who plays the game its ment to be played, cheaters currently stand no chance (see Riccardo Ricco for example). Perhaps it was a bit naive from you to think Armstrong was the one who wans't guilty, taking in consideration that all his contenders (Ulrich, Basso, Pantani, Virenque, etc.) all used doping and weren't able to beat him. But also take in consideration that even tough he used doping the things he did were incredible and in the tour almost the impossible is ask from a rider, its no surprise that the tour has been made a lot "easier" the last couple of years due to that reason. But please keep supporting the new "clean" guys like A. & F. Schleck, V. Nibali, C. Evans, B. Mollema, R. Gesink, R. Hesjedal, C. Froome, B. Wiggins etc. The sport stays incredible and the fights in the mountains are still heroic! Spread the love for cycling, Cycling is just miles in front of other sports when it comes to taking the doping out the sport, no other sport has so many drugtests! hua, Frank just got cought with a masking agent durning todays rest day http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/uci-announces-positive-doping-test-for-frank-schleck-2_230302 | ||
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vanskater
United States146 Posts
On July 18 2012 05:13 MattBarry wrote: So is doping the use of steroids? Cause in my experience, "dope" is heroin. the term doping comes from "Blood doping" or creating more red blood cells to cary more oxygen, ie better endurence. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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jupidar
United States229 Posts
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dGHaiL
United States177 Posts
The best cyclists in the world are so good at it because 1. Their bodies excel at removing carbon dioxide from their systems, allowing oxygen to renew supply in muscles that need it the most. This can be increased obviously by blood doping, which adds to your supply of hemoglobin and thus allows you to carry more oxygen to your muscles. However, it is also acquired from intense training of the heart muscle, strengthening of the legs and arm muscles, bla bla bla. The stronger your body is, the better it can deal with the buildup of carbon dioxide and the better it can remove it from your system. 2. Working out doesn't just produce carbon dioxide. When your body runs out of oxygen in key muscles, it begins to respirate anaerobically, which means you are producing lactic acid instead of breaking down pyruvate into smaller molecules and moving it into the Kreb's cycle, which requires oxygen to be completed. Instead, your body has to free its electron receptor groups, and thus the electrons (hydrogens from the breakdown of glucose) are pushed into lactic acid. Lance already had an incredible and superhuman body capable of dealing with this lactic acid buildup - that's what makes cyclists like the pros so much better than me and you. When we would get cramps and have to stop on top of a mountain, these cyclists are barely even getting tired - their bodies are removing the lactic acid just as fast as we can build it up. When Lance was diagnosed with testicular cancer, he had a large tumor mass growing in his body. Tumors require a HUGE amount of energy to grow - as they are growing with reckless abandon. As a result, they often produce lactic acid - and chemo radiation causes people with tumors to grow increasingly tired as their bodies try to keep up with the tumor's need for energy and increased burning of glucose and conversion to lactic acid. His battle with cancer may very well have turned his already superhuman system of lactic acid removal into quite another beast in itself. Once again, I'm shocked and appalled by the news and really hope it isn't true. I just wanted to provide another side to the argument. There was a scientific study done on Lance's body and it found a lot of this stuff to be quantifiably true. I'll add the link into my post if I can find it. Cheers. Edit: Article, not the scientific article I found before because I only had access through my University's library, so I can't link it so you can all see it. I apologize, some google searching may help clear it up a bit. http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/index.cfm?page=article&go2=1459 | ||
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Gogleion
United States534 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
On July 18 2012 11:20 Gogleion wrote: Wait so with the whole Frank Schleck thing, how does a diuretic help him? I know it has to do with helping him dope, but is it because it helps flush out his system of other drugs that are taken when one dopes? I'm no expert, but I think you're pretty much right. Basically if I'm correct on this, the diuretic flushes drugs that are taken and thus effectively serves to hide the fact that he's doping. So being found with the diuretic is supposedly a strong indication that he is probably taking drugs and hiding it. | ||
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