Speed: It's dangerous, exhilarating, intoxicating. This episode of Random Bits of Knowledge about Germany will feature a German icon: The Autobahn.
While the term Autobahn is probably one of the most known German words in the world, there remain many misconceptions about the Autobahn. So let's start by defining what the Autobahn really is.
Autobahn literally means auto lane. It describes the network of inter city highways in Germany - comparable I guess to the US interstate. In the past people actually referred to it as the Autobahnen, which would be the correct plural and is the official term. But over time both the individual road as well as the entire network have become known as just Die Autobahn.
Germany has one of densest highway systems of the world - third only after the US and China in total length, which is astonishing if you look at the country's size in comparison. The Autobahn is almost solely financed through federal taxes. There are virtually no fees or toll roads, except for a toll on commercial trucks which has recently been introduced. Even though Germans like to complain a lot about the condition of their Autobahn, in reality the roads are incredibly well maintained. And have to be, considering how fast people drive here.
Of course the most unique feature of the Autobahn is the speed limit, or rather lack thereof. To my knowledge the Autobahn remains the only highway in the world without a general speed limit. There is the Richtgeschwindigkeit, a recommended speed of 130 km/h (which is about 81 mph), but that really is about it - it's a recommendation. Where ever only the recommendation is in effect, you are free to drive as fast as the car goes. And as you should know, German cars like to go fast.
There is probably nothing Germans are more proud of than their cars. Some fellow citizens might disagree with me on that, but overall it's true. And for good reason. Between 10 and 15 percent of the entire German economy is bound to or related to the car industry. The standard vehicle for a taxi cab in Germany is a Mercedes E or C class. Your standard police patrol will drive anything from a Volkswagen to a Mercedes, BMW, or even Porsche. Foreign visitors are often enough astonished by the sheer rate of luxury vehicles on the German road.
The definite German road sign: All Limits Are Off
Owning and maintaining a nice car remains the number one status symbol in Germany. In fact no worldly possession is regarded more universally as a sign of wealth and status among Germans. Where in other societies home ownership, physical appearance, travel, family and others are equal or better characteristics for being well off, nothing will top the car in the homeland of the motor vehicle.
Another interesting effect of that pride is that car modding is really uncommon in Germany. Actually it is really looked down upon. The in-house tuners like AMG, Abt, or M are probably the only socially acceptable choice outside of stock cars. Any custom jobs but those few will label you as an eccentric hobbyist at best, but usually a modded car, especially if it's foreign, will quickly get thrown into the white trash category.
But, since Autobahn performance is still the most attractive feature of high end cars, modding is really just unnecessary. Every German car maker offers a wide selection of options for every model, and stupidly powerful yet efficient engines are of course the most sought after. There is this "Gentleman's Agreement" between car makers to electronically limit all standard models to 250 km/h. You can still pay them between 2k and 5k Euro and accept an extra on your insurance to have this limit removed though if you desperately need to go 300 km/h and more. It's worth it for enough people apparently - I was more than once passed by some high powered BMW when I was going 250 km/h myself.
With these insane speeds, isn't the Autobahn incredibly dangerous? Oddly enough no; in fact the Autobahn is one the safest highways in the world. In 2011 there were a total of 453 fatal accidents on the Autobahn, which is 0.56 per 100,000 speed addicted residents. Compare that to the US interstate's 1.61 per 100,000 - three times as many.
I already mentioned two likely reasons for that: Excellent road conditions, and the best cars in the world. On top of that, Germany has very strict regulations on car maintenance. It's mandatory to have your car inspected every 2 years, and the safety standards are very high, which makes maintaining an older car very expensive. Driving your car for a considerable time over the 2 year period without inspection is a criminal offense. Most manufacturers impose even tighter inspection rules on you if you want to benefit from their long life guarantee plans.
I believe the most important difference though is actually the drivers themselves. Of course like every other country Germany has its share of terrible drivers. However consider how difficult it is to get a driver's license in Germany: You have to take mandatory theory as well as driving lessons at a licensed driving school. Driving lessons must include night driving, rush hour city traffic and of course driving on the Autobahn. You have to pass a test in theory, and a rather strict driving test as well; at least between 1/3 and 1/4 of all applicants fail the test the first time. All in all getting just your license will cost you about 2000 Euro. If you only do the absolutely mandatory lessons you could go by with about 1500, but most people take more lessons to not fail the test.
Also traffic rules on the Autobahn are strictly observed. Well, more or less I suppose, but at least when it comes to safety most people behave. Speeding in areas where there is a speed limit is rather uncommon. Tailgating is the most enforced violation and has the highest fines associated to it. There is Rechtsfahrgebot, which basically means you are only allowed to pass on the left, and also you must not drive on the left lane if the right lane is clear. While the latter part is often ignored, at least people passing on the right is very rare.
But ultimately the main reason is not just the combination of excellent roads, superb cars, and safe driving - it comes down to culture. In Germany, driving is not just a means to get from point A to point B. It's an activity in itself, and one that has been treasured over generations; It's the German's way to express and experience freedom. It took German car makers until a few years ago to even include cup holders in their stock car options. That you would want to do anything but driving once in the car was long a completely foreign concept.
The architecture of the road goes along with the German culture of driving. There are very few simple straight flat sections on the Autobahn. Instead smooth bends, light hills, tunnels, and bridges leading through woodlands and over high plains award the Autobahn a certain grace, and yes, beauty. There are actual fan clubs cherishing especially aesthetic sections of the Autobahn like the A71.
But in the end all the beauty and insanity that the Autobahn still represents is increasingly becoming anachronistic. Ever more congested roads, long sections in constant maintenance, and especially environmental concerns have slowly shifted the public opinion on the Autobahn. Today just more than half of the total Autobahn network is truly without speed limits - the other half has permanent or temporary speed limits depending on conditions. Polls suggest that a majority of the public is now in favor of introducing a general nation wide speed limit. 2011 was the first year in history where fewer licenses were issued than the year before. A general Autobahn toll for all vehicles is now regularly being discussed; something that would have been political suicide just 10 years ago. These things will probably not happen too soon still, since the driver and car lobby is comparable in their influence and disputability to the NRA in the United States.
However I am fairly certain that I am among the last generation that can still enjoy the Autobahn in its original nature: An erratic, beautiful, ridiculously irresponsible display of pride in an otherwise sensible, humble, and orderly society.
at least people passing on the right is very rare.
This happened like 3 times on my way back home from the HSC. If you are to slow for some persons the just change the lane and try to overtake you on the right lane.
In my opinion the recommended speed should be the maximum on the Autobahn just for the safety of unsafe or new drivers(and also for the sports car drivers which think they rule the Autobahn).
at least people passing on the right is very rare.
This happened like 3 times on my way back home from the HSC. If you are to slow for some persons the just change the lane and try to overtake you on the right lane.
In my opinion the recommended speed should be the maximum on the Autobahn just for the safety of unsafe or new drivers(and also for the sports car drivers which think they rule the Autobahn).
What about switching lanes? Sounds like your driving is shit.
at least people passing on the right is very rare.
This happened like 3 times on my way back home from the HSC. If you are to slow for some persons the just change the lane and try to overtake you on the right lane.
If there is space and there are ppl driving faster you should drive on the most right lane possible. Its your fault dude not theirs. They are just mad cause you are doing it wrong
On July 15 2012 01:39 tbeen wrote: Nice blog about our beloved Autobahn
at least people passing on the right is very rare.
This happened like 3 times on my way back home from the HSC. If you are to slow for some persons the just change the lane and try to overtake you on the right lane.
If there is space and there are ppl driving faster you should drive on the most right lane possible. Its your fault dude not theirs. They are just mad cause you are doing it wrong
I should've said that it was on a Monday morning and the right lane was just full of trucks because the started driving again after the weekend. I would change the lange momentarily if I overtook the car in front of me but there were 100 trucks in a row
I am not a fan of germany at all, but the mere fact that the government is not setting up speed controls everywhere just to make money (yes only money, statistics prove that speed limitation doesnt reduce the amount of lethal accidents) is great. Makes me want to go to Germany just to drive my dad's 350z.
Nice blog. Surprised you didn't mention the limitations on hill steepness.
Completely agree with your remarks on German driver quality. Was kinda surprised you complained about people not always moving to the right lane cause when I drive in Germany it always surprised me how disciplined German drivers were in that regard. Such a relief compared to all the old people in Peugot206s that stick left in france going 110.
On July 15 2012 02:37 endy wrote: I am not a fan of germany at all, but the mere fact that the government is not setting up speed controls everywhere just to make money (yes only money, statistics prove that speed limitation doesnt reduce the amount of lethal accidents) is great. Makes me want to go to Germany just to drive my dad's 350z.
Oh haha I didn't mention that but there are automated speed traps EVERYWHERE. And they are set up specifically in a way to not improve road safety but to make money. For example at construction site exits just in view of the All Limits Off sign. Lovely.
It's funny you should mention how rare undertaking is (that's the english word for it which I like to think is an intentional play on words), whenver I've been on the Autobahn I see undertaking quite a lot, although perhaps I'm looking out for it. That was mostly in the south so I don't know if there's a difference there.
Fürth sucks man. I really dislike this town. It'd be better off as parking lot for Nürnberg.
I'm not too sure about the prizes you mention. I paid around 1,000€ in total and I was in a rather expensive "school" - if that's what you'd call it. I was also not aware that you needed to drive in rush hour - not really possible in this rural area here.
Plus, it would've been interesting to mention our policy on alcohol & driving, iirc that has changed in the 70es. I once read articles that mentioned that 1.0 ‰ was considered to be "ok to drive", when now it is 0,0 for beginners and 0,3 for everyone else: Also, the two years after you got your license, you basically lose it for anything - speeding, "tailgating", smaller accidents you just can't avoid sometimes. Heck, I hated these two years.
It should also be mentioned that in Germany you must be at least 18 years old to be able to hold a full drivers' license. There are some attempts to lower this to 17 under specific conditions.
On July 15 2012 03:32 Proseat wrote: It should also be mentioned that in Germany you must be at least 18 years old to be able to hold a full drivers' license. There are some attempts to lower this to 17 under specific conditions.
I did when I was 16 and finished 1month after I got 17. Had to drive with my father all the time.
On July 15 2012 03:05 Gecko[Xp] wrote: I'm not too sure about the prizes you mention. I paid around 1,000€ in total and I was in a rather expensive "school" - if that's what you'd call it. I was also not aware that you needed to drive in rush hour - not really possible in this rural area here.
On July 15 2012 03:01 Flicky wrote: I love your germany blogs zatic, never stop.
It's funny you should mention how rare undertaking is (that's the english word for it which I like to think is an intentional play on words), whenver I've been on the Autobahn I see undertaking quite a lot, although perhaps I'm looking out for it. That was mostly in the south so I don't know if there's a difference there.
Well, it all depends on how slow the guy on the left or middle lane is. Some people just stay on the middle lane forever (and I mean that literally) and when people see a far away truck, they usually don't change lanes either to let you through despite driving 120 km/h in an unlimited zone - some people undertake then. But I agree, I think undertaking is actually more common than in the UK for example, but that is probably directly related to the speed limit - you won't undertake a 65 mph car just to do 70 but you might reconsider when you'd undertake a 80 km/h car to do 250.
Nice blog overall About the license, I think I paid ~1500 EUR. The Autobahn late at night / early in he morning, when nobody is around, is pretty amazing - until you hit a 22-6 100 km/h zone
For what it is worth, I consider passing on the right lane to be the most dangerous thing I encounter on the Autobahn. I literally never expect this because it happens so rarely and I would never do it myself. So it is easy to get sloppy to control for the right side, and even if you control it, then I am often surprised by the speed of the car, because you expect them to be slow.
Camping left on a 2-lane road you are literally asking for it though, but on a 3-lane road that should never happen, even if you are hugging the middle lane tu surpass trucks.
On July 15 2012 06:07 Froadac wrote: Fun read. How many people drive like 120 km/hr or slower on the autobahn. It doesn't seem like going that fast is always practical or useful.
The majority of people drives between 100 and 130 I would say. In most cars the fuel consumption spikes up a lot when you go >140 and a lot of smaller and/or older cars can't handle the high speeds anyways. My mom's KIA van, for example, goes nuts when you push it past 130.
On July 15 2012 06:07 Froadac wrote: Fun read. How many people drive like 120 km/hr or slower on the autobahn. It doesn't seem like going that fast is always practical or useful.
The majority of people drives between 100 and 130 I would say. In most cars the fuel consumption spikes up a lot when you go >140 and a lot of smaller and/or older cars can't handle the high speeds anyways. My mom's KIA van, for example, goes nuts when you push it past 130.
That for one.
Most of the time you cannot drive as fast as you would want anyways because there are just too many ppl on the autobahn.
On the other hand my fathers car somehow manages to be below 3.5k rpm at 250 km/h. The fuel consuming thing isn't necessarily driving that fast but getting up to the speed - and if there is even one car in front of you overtaking a truck, you will have to break and re-accelerate. For that reason driving really fast doesn't save you a lot of time over a longer journey, since your average speed doesn't go up by much. It really makes a difference at night though, when nobody is around.
Recently I got into the habit of slowing down quite a bit for corners where I cannot see whats beyond them - I once took a corner with 230 km/h and there was a traffic jam right at the end of the corner. I was breaking as hard as possible as soon as I saw it and I stopped like 1m behind the last car, that was quite scary. Other scary thing is people not properly checking the left lane before overtaking or not realizing your speed as you come up. Had to break quite hard a few times.
Owning and maintaining a nice car remains the number one status symbol in Germany. In fact no worldly possession is regarded more universally as a sign of wealth and status among Germans. Where in other societies home ownership, physical appearance, ability and will to travel and others are equal or better characteristics for being well off, nothing will top the car in the homeland of the motor vehicle.
I can never imagine a single material possession being so important to me. In my country, people take credit lines out to buy cars that they can't afford to artificially inflate their economic status in the eyes of people around them. It doesn't bother them that the envy they generate in the idiots that surround them is as artificial as the self-worth they gain.
On July 15 2012 06:07 Froadac wrote: Fun read. How many people drive like 120 km/hr or slower on the autobahn. It doesn't seem like going that fast is always practical or useful.
The majority of people drives between 100 and 130 I would say. In most cars the fuel consumption spikes up a lot when you go >140 and a lot of smaller and/or older cars can't handle the high speeds anyways. My mom's KIA van, for example, goes nuts when you push it past 130.
That for one.
Most of the time you cannot drive as fast as you would want anyways because there are just too many ppl on the autobahn.
On the other hand my fathers car somehow manages to be below 3.5k rpm at 250 km/h. The fuel consuming thing isn't necessarily driving that fast but getting up to the speed - and if there is even one car in front of you overtaking a truck, you will have to break and re-accelerate. For that reason driving really fast doesn't save you a lot of time over a longer journey, since your average speed doesn't go up by much. It really makes a difference at night though, when nobody is around.
Recently I got into the habit of slowing down quite a bit for corners where I cannot see whats beyond them - I once took a corner with 230 km/h and there was a traffic jam right at the end of the corner. I was breaking as hard as possible as soon as I saw it and I stopped like 1m behind the last car, that was quite scary. Other scary thing is people not properly checking the left lane before overtaking or not realizing your speed as you come up. Had to break quite hard a few times.
I know that feel... Sometimes when you see the tail of a traffic jam you completely underestimate your high speed and the distance you need to slow down. I don't drive that often so that messed me up a bit the last time I was driving on the Autobahn for a few hrs.
Those German highways were the one of the most memorable parts when I lived there. Driving long distance on U.S. highways is so fucking boring, the scenery is for the most parts trees, a house or two, and fields. You only drive straight with at most 5 degree turns in one direction at a time, boredom itself manifested in the form of a road. Driving in Germany (and Europe in general actually) was a pleasure, lots of turns up and downs, scenery, and the speed. Got addicted to driving and cars, lost the love for driving in the U.S.
Don't get the wrong impression - very few people actually go above 180 km/h, and only in some areas of Germany. Large parts of north-western Germany, for example, are either strictly regulated to 120-130 or only have two lanes in a direction, which very effectively prevents you from going at top speeds.
Also, very fast drivers tend to be unpopular with others - especially if the Autobahn curves a lot, they can be incredibly dangerous for someone trying to overtake, only to be scared by someone approaching at 200 ++ with seemingly no intention to use the brakes, instead flashing the headlights to make you leave the lane, even if you go above 160. Incidentally, my acquintances usually joke about Audi drivers having to make up their lack of a Mercedes or BMW by driving extra aggressively.
On July 15 2012 03:05 Gecko[Xp] wrote: I'm not too sure about the prizes you mention. I paid around 1,000€ in total and I was in a rather expensive "school" - if that's what you'd call it. I was also not aware that you needed to drive in rush hour - not really possible in this rural area here.
love your blog write ups. Seriously. I always come away with some real insight. ^^ As a BMW enthusiast and fan (320 & 538i), loved to read it and I hate those mods too. ^^
On July 15 2012 03:05 Gecko[Xp] wrote: I'm not too sure about the prizes you mention. I paid around 1,000€ in total and I was in a rather expensive "school" - if that's what you'd call it. I was also not aware that you needed to drive in rush hour - not really possible in this rural area here.
When? I did mine in 2004 and paid.. something like 1800.
It should be mentioned that these "minority of bad drivers" are a really pain in the ass on the Autobahn. Especially if you go fast (>200km/h) and they just don't look out for you speeding on the left lane, while trying to overtake a truck.
In my oppinion german driver's school do not teach, how to drive on the autobahn properly. At least I only took one lesson outta 10ish (or 12ish, cannot remember) on the Autobahn (tho I did not have a problem with it and went 180 or something, while driving the first time on the Autobahn with my driving teacher).
But the really big part, which is really dangerous, are foreigners. I live near the border to belgium and netherlands. Foreigners just do not know how the Autobahn works (f.e. changing from the left lane to the middle/right lane, when someone is speeding behind you, etc.). So you literally ALWAYS drive like 3-5 km behind someone, who is only driving like 110-120 on the left lane. You can get really mad about this.
Otherwise I love the Autobahn. It is such a good feeling (because of the adrenalin^^) and you feel so free.
Dutch drivers are the worst, they're really scary. Must have something to do with the roads here being in a constant state of total congestion. And everyone driving tiny plastic cars because it's a flat country and people are cheap.
On July 15 2012 15:35 chrisolo wrote: In my oppinion german driver's school do not teach, how to drive on the autobahn properly. At least I only took one lesson outta 10ish (or 12ish, cannot remember) on the Autobahn (tho I did not had a problem with it and went 180 or something, while driving the first time on the Autobahn with my driving teacher).
The question is how much you can teach driving on the Autobahn. In my opinion the most important part is awareness and that is a point where a lot of people fail either because they are distracted or they do not care or ... That said there is really not a lot of practice in driving schools. I had one 90 min session on the Autobahn with 50+min at speed of 60 in a single lane road works. Best thing of that day... my teacher inviting me to breakfast.
What makes driving on the Autobahn absolutely horrible is the filterin in before road works. People know 2km before it's going to happen that they need to do so but they're going full speed on the second lane to get to the front of the lane somehow pushing in which means that everybody behind them has to stop. Instead of a constant stream of cars going at 60/80/100kmh it's a stupid stop and go...
On July 15 2012 15:35 chrisolo wrote: In my oppinion german driver's school do not teach, how to drive on the autobahn properly. At least I only took one lesson outta 10ish (or 12ish, cannot remember) on the Autobahn (tho I did not had a problem with it and went 180 or something, while driving the first time on the Autobahn with my driving teacher).
The question is how much you can teach driving on the Autobahn. In my opinion the most important part is awareness and that is a point where a lot of people fail either because they are distracted or they do not care or ... That said there is really not a lot of practice in driving schools. I had one 90 min session on the Autobahn with 50+min at speed of 60 in a single lane road works. Best thing of that day... my teacher inviting me to breakfast.
What makes driving on the Autobahn absolutely horrible is the filterin in before road works. People know 2km before it's going to happen that they need to do so but they're going full speed on the second lane to get to the front of the lane somehow pushing in which means that everybody behind them has to stop. Instead of a constant stream of cars going at 60/80/100kmh it's a stupid stop and go...
Yeah filtering is shit. You are supposed to drive to the end of your lane though, the worst thing you can do is push in some time before that.
About overtaking and expecting a 200 km/h+ guy to break: Don't overtake, do it after he's passed...
Always love to read these threads and realize that this stuff is far from obvious to the average TLer.
The autobahn is fun, but driving over 200 km/h for longer amoutns of time really gets on my nerves. There´s always gonna be someone pulling some stupid bullshit, like cutting in front of you to overtake a slow ass minivan when you´re clearly coming up way too fast. At those speeds that´s pretty exhilarating. Plus your fuel is going to be burned so fast you wonder if there´s a hole somewhere. I don´t go that fast a lot anymore.
It's unsafe, it's a waste of fuel, it's a shame it's one of the few things foreigners know about Germany. Should really be 130km/h fixed speed limit imo.
On July 15 2012 22:10 ACrow wrote: It's unsafe, it's a waste of fuel, it's a shame it's one of the few things foreigners know about Germany. Should really be 130km/h fixed speed limit imo.
Wait WHAT? Yearly statistics of fatal accidents show that there are less and less accidents on the Autobahn because of speeding and more and more accidents because people just dont look what happens around them. They dont look into the mirrors when overtaking, they dont do the Schulterblick or cant predict the speed of others or the distance they need to overtake someone. I think you will agree that switching lanes without looking into the mirror and not using the indicators to overtake a 80.1 km/h fast driving car with 82.1 km/h is more dangerous than higher speeds in certain situations.
Also there are people who are willing to pay the extra bit for fuel to go faster. Maybe its a "waste" of fuel to the nature. But man, this is about 0.1% of what you can call a waste. Just look the american car makers. There are good reasons for american cars to be that big and have 5 liter cylinder capacity (big country with a lot of different conditions, turbo- and superchargers beark down quickly because of that and so on) but they arent even trying (no offense to you fellow americans) to make their cars more efficient.
Last but not least: setting a speed limit to 130km/h will just destroy the local market for german car producers. Its like cutting in your own flesh to replace it with some raw meat. German car producers have a reputation for making good, safe, efficient but still powerfull and clever cars. And thats on the whole globe. If you put such a restriction on your own industry it will simply dissapear from your place, and go somewhere else.
Same with the horrificly stupid EU-Emission Standards for car producers.
Germany is also a country where automatic cars are still a rarity. Most people don't like it and it is an extra that nobody really wants, while in the US it's standard afaik. It's slowly getting more common in city cars and there is half automatic now which is kinda cool, but germans still prefer shifting gears manually.
The EU-Emission standards are not that bad. I think car makers are already meeting guidelines that were to be met by 2015. Personally I drive much safer when driving fast, since there is more at stake. So I can always anticipate people suddenly pulling out and w/e. Of course it's their fault for not looking in the mirror but it's you that gets faulted by the government...
On July 15 2012 23:43 Slomo wrote: Last but not least: setting a speed limit to 130km/h will just destroy the local market for german car producers. Its like cutting in your own flesh to replace it with some raw meat. German car producers have a reputation for making good, safe, efficient but still powerfull and clever cars. And thats on the whole globe. If you put such a restriction on your own industry it will simply dissapear from your place, and go somewhere else.
Why should the companies leave germany, if there is a speed limit on the autobahn? I don't think public opinion on german cars will change, just because i can't drive 250km/h on the autobahn. Maybe the marketing will change and the priority of the companies, more towards comfortable driving and features to make the then longer travels more enjoyable, but i don't think Opel, Audi, BMW and Mercedes will just leave the country altogether. Seems like non sequitur to me.
The parents of a friend of mine own a pretty big and slightly tuned BMW, which is easily able to go over 250 km/h. I've never really liked speeding, but the experience in this monster was just awesome. We were testing the car's limits at 3am, because the roads are almost completely empty then. It's a strange mixture between fear and exitement, when you're doing more than 250 km/h, especially in a car like that BMW. (it wasn't even loud inside the car, basically it felt like riding a train
On July 15 2012 03:05 Gecko[Xp] wrote: I'm not too sure about the prizes you mention. I paid around 1,000€ in total and I was in a rather expensive "school" - if that's what you'd call it. I was also not aware that you needed to drive in rush hour - not really possible in this rural area here.
When? I did mine in 2004 and paid.. something like 1800.
I used zatic's link to recalculate and it seems my memory didn't trick me too much. I did my license in 2004/2005 (Winter - Summer).
I had to do 20 hours in total (driving), four of which were special tours (night/Autobahn). That plus anything listed THERE (not sure if they count in theory hours and the stuff you might buy to learn for the standardised tests) makes now 1120€ - I did pass both tests in my first attempt. Barely though, according to my tester, but that guy was an ass, sorry no way to phrase it differently. He had me driving around for almost two hours, which, iirc, was way too long, while making remarks how the students that he had on the same day all horribly failed and how youths nowadays are super careless and all.
Might be that it was "cheaper" for me, because I live in a relatively rural area (Coburg/Bamberg) and my school used Autogas instead of Benzin/Diesel. I remember that one liter of Gas was about 0,60 € back then, almost half of which ordinary Benzin was. I also could go with the absolute minimum of praxis hours, because I actually knew how to drive before I got into their car. Pretty common to drive around here on private properties beforehand. That actually made it a lot easier to skip the whole "this is the steering wheel" intros. I also didn't have huge problems at traffic lights (absaufen) and I usually don't tend to panic when it doesn't work.
However, my teacher got a heart attack in my first lesson so to speak. Almost at least. He told me where to go, which I completely hated. So we were going about 90 km/h on a ordinary road when he told me we would turn left soon. Coincidentally 70 meters ahaed there was a small road leading to nowhere. I got into my breaks 'cause I thought he meant THAT road, but well no, he didn't.
On a side note: I really hate people that drive faster than 180 km/h on the Autobahn. That's just careless, don't tell me you could possible react fast enough or keep enough overview to safely slow down before shit happens. Those people tend to yell at other drivers that try to overtake with significantly slower cars. I try to avoid these situations with my old Toyota, but well... there's only so much you can do. Usually cars that do more than 220 km/h tend to come out of nowhere - there are hills, slopes, etc. And it's fucking scary to watch your mirror just to see these flashes coming closer and closer, starting to tailgate around 150-180 km/h. Uncool. Imho, most of these retards also have the bonus to drive tanks, literally tanks, if there IS an accident these cars can endure so much, while people in other cars are prolly fucked beyond any hope. It's kinda easy to underestimate the enegery high speed means and the potential damage they WILL cause in accidents.
I love that there are still autobahn sections without speed limits. Normally, it doesn't really matter since the traffic is congested enough that going past 130 km/h is impossible but when you catch one of those great moments at night when the autobahn is literally empty you can enjoy the freedom and thrill of high speed I'll probably never forget that awesome moment: 1 am, Monday morning, A555 - not a single car on the road, went up to 313 km/h (195 mp/h)
On July 15 2012 01:39 tbeen wrote: Nice blog about our beloved Autobahn
at least people passing on the right is very rare.
This happened like 3 times on my way back home from the HSC. If you are to slow for some persons the just change the lane and try to overtake you on the right lane.
If there is space and there are ppl driving faster you should drive on the most right lane possible. Its your fault dude not theirs. They are just mad cause you are doing it wrong
People that stick on the left are annoying, but there is no excuse for overtaking on the right. It's pretty much the most dangerously retarded thing you can do (next to tailgating and switching lanes without looking in the mirror).
On July 15 2012 02:56 butter wrote: What a senseless waste of fossil fuel.
On July 15 2012 22:10 ACrow wrote: It's unsafe, it's a waste of fuel, it's a shame it's one of the few things foreigners know about Germany. Should really be 130km/h fixed speed limit imo.
The general consensus is that a general speed limit on the autobahn would not result in a noticeable reduction of accidents. The accident statistics of the past then years have shown that the autobahns are the safest roads by a large margin anyway. Not to mention that dangerous sections of the autobahn are already regulated with speed limits. Furthermore, electronic speed limit signs that introduce/remove the speed limit depending on traffic and weather are introduced more often and increase the safety on the road.
As far as waste of fuel is concerned, a general speed limit is in fact expected to reduce fuel consumption, however only by a negligable amount. There is absolutely no reason to push for a general speed limit on the autobahn. Also a funny fact, our family's Audi gets at least 18 mpg when accelarating and/or maxing out at 210 km/h. My host's Dodge Ram (when I was in the US) was getting at best 13-14 mpg when driving 50-60 mp/h. A ridiculous Ford truck (I believe F-350) was showing 7 mpg when I was passanger in it once...
On July 15 2012 06:07 Froadac wrote: Fun read. How many people drive like 120 km/hr or slower on the autobahn. It doesn't seem like going that fast is always practical or useful.
The majority of people drives between 100 and 130 I would say. In most cars the fuel consumption spikes up a lot when you go >140 and a lot of smaller and/or older cars can't handle the high speeds anyways. My mom's KIA van, for example, goes nuts when you push it past 130.
That for one.
Most of the time you cannot drive as fast as you would want anyways because there are just too many ppl on the autobahn.
[...]
Other scary thing is people not properly checking the left lane before overtaking or not realizing your speed as you come up. Had to break quite hard a few times.
I rarely go beyond 130 km/h because the traffic is so dense normally. But even then people that are stupid enough not to look in the mirror when switching lanes are a pain in the ass. Every now and then I have to jump on the brakes because some retard decides to suddenly pull left when going around 80 km/h, of course those people wouldn't use their turn signals and would cut right in front of you. Those are certainly the most dangerous drivers on the autobahn, simply because even a speed limit wouldn't make the roads safe from their stupidity...
I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
Thats because your car was not built to handle those high speeds.
I definitely agree that driving a small car at high speeds is dangerous, as you don't have as much control and the car will veer all over the place. But believe me, it makes a huge difference to be in a big car thats built for such speeds (think larger BMWs, Mercedes and Audis). You barely notice the speed, meaning the car is still easy to control and you won't be having problems driving straight. I would personally never go beyond 180 or so in a smaller car, too unsafe. People who have never driven in a car like this have a hard time believing that there are cars where such high speeds can be handled, but if you get a chance just try it out I cannot speak for high-end sports cars like Ferraris, never driven anything like that. I'd imagine they are harder to control.
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
Well, german highways are built to drive fast on them and most of the german drivers are experienced enough to drive at that speed. Thus it is not as dangerous to go that fast in Germany, then in f.e. the US. I was once on a interstate in the US and I would not drive on it any faster then 140 or something, because it is much tighter and much more curvy. Even if the Autobahn only needs to change the direction by some angle (literally 4-5 °), the length of the route will be like 5-6 km. You only really need to use your steering wheel for changing lanes. Everything (and even changing lanes to a certain degree) you can do by just focussing on the lane you drive. F.e. driving these curves, you do not actually move the steering wheel by fully purpose, but much more by the "subconsciousness" (while still moving it, you do not really realize it). Dunno how to write it down correctly, but most of the germans will know what I mean.
Also if you go often in speeds like that, you get a experience and the feeling for it. For myself I feel really safe driving up to 200 km/h, but I start to feel uncomfortable from this mark on. But this is just a matter of experience and since I do not actually own a car that can go so fast, it will not improve so fast. But it aint that dangerous as it may seem for foreigners.
The only time I remember, where I was really lucky to not cause a crash, was while getting mad, because of a dumb idiot flashing me all the time. This is the only real dangerous about the Autobahn, the dumb idiotic retards on the Autobahn. And to be quite honest, there are too many of them. But this is a problem of getting the license way too easy (imho).
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
On July 16 2012 04:35 chrisolo wrote: The only time I remember, where I was really lucky to not cause a crash, was while getting mad, because of a dumb idiot flashing me all the time. This is the only real dangerous about the Autobahn, the dumb idiotic retards on the Autobahn. And to be quite honest, there are too many of them. But this is a problem of getting the license way too easy (imho).
Woah, guys flashing you all the time is pretty dangerous, I'll give you that
On a serious note: I don't think you can really fix that with making the driving license harder to get, douchebags will be douchebags. Personally I like to drive fast and I do get annoyed when people hog the left lane for no apparent reason, but I'll never tailgate and only flash my lights once at most if I think that the person has not noticed me (this happens sometimes, people just forget to look in their rear view mirror).
I really hate driving onto the Autobahn, because everyone is driving so fast, but as soon as your on it, driving becomes really fun. I guess it's normal for every german to test the limits of his own car on the Autobahn at least once. (My small Corsa only gets up to 190 though )
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
Well, german highways are built to drive fast on them and most of the german drivers are experienced enough to drive at that speed. Thus it is not as dangerous to go that fast in Germany, then in f.e. the US. I was once on a interstate in the US and I would not drive on it any faster then 140 or something, because it is much tighter and much more curvy. Even if the Autobahn only needs to change the direction by some angle (literally 4-5 °), the length of the route will be like 5-6 km. You only really need to use your steering wheel for changing lanes. Everything (and even changing lanes to a certain degree) you can do by just focussing on the lane you drive. F.e. driving these curves, you do not actually move the steering wheel by fully purpose, but much more by the "subconsciousness" (while still moving it, you do not really realize it). Dunno how to write it down correctly, but most of the germans will know what I mean.
Also if you go often in speeds like that, you get a experience and the feeling for it. For myself I feel really safe driving up to 200 km/h, but I start to feel uncomfortable from this mark on. But this is just a matter of experience and since I do not actually own a car that can go so fast, it will not improve so fast. But it aint that dangerous as it may seem for foreigners.
The only time I remember, where I was really lucky to not cause a crash, was while getting mad, because of a dumb idiot flashing me all the time. This is the only real dangerous about the Autobahn, the dumb idiotic retards on the Autobahn. And to be quite honest, there are too many of them. But this is a problem of getting the license way too easy (imho).
It is for me like that too, driving up to about 200 kmh feels similar to slower speeds and you don't need to focus on the driving ( only on the traffic). At speeds higher than that i feel like i have to focus to steer steady. I only drove 250 once, at that speed the traffic feels scary as you have to trust the other drivers to drive properly. If you are 130 kmh faster than they and they pull some kind of BS you will have a hard time reacting without losing control (depends on experience i guess).
On July 16 2012 05:40 Zetter wrote: I really hate driving onto the Autobahn, because everyone is driving so fast, but as soon as your on it, driving becomes really fun. I guess it's normal for every german to test the limits of his own car on the Autobahn at least once. (My small Corsa only gets up to 190 though )
Don't know where you live and what Autobahn you are driving but most of the time I am driving I only encounter people driving 100-150 km/h. Ocasionally you have the fast drivers with 200+ km/h, but they definitely are the exception. I'd love to drive faster (I mostly keep 120 km/h) but gas is just so expensive
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
when u start driving, anything past 80 feels scary.
its just about experience, and when u live here u are naturally used to those speeds. its not like everyone has the cars to drive that fast, but if i had, i would def drive like that just to have some fun occasionally :D the fastest i drove was 190 with my dads car. i feel like with a car that can go to 250, 190 wouldnt feel as scary.
my own car would explode at 155 (fiat cinquecento - ye, my first and beloved starter car^^), so i drive at 140 constantly, which feels like 180 with my dads car simply because its so hard to control that little thing :D I love to pass cars that are worth about 1000 of my own, but seem to not need their car since they keep driving 120 for no reason.
On July 16 2012 05:40 Zetter wrote: I really hate driving onto the Autobahn, because everyone is driving so fast, but as soon as your on it, driving becomes really fun. I guess it's normal for every german to test the limits of his own car on the Autobahn at least once. (My small Corsa only gets up to 190 though )
Don't know where you live and what Autobahn you are driving but most of the time I am driving I only encounter people driving 100-150 km/h. Ocasionally you have the fast drivers with 200+ km/h, but they definitely are the exception. I'd love to drive faster (I mostly keep 120 km/h) but gas is just so expensive
Yes, gas is really expensive, I almost never drive more than 140. My problem with driving onto the Autobahn is just that even if the people are only driving 100, I need a long time to catch up with my 65 horsepowers. :p So it really can be a drag if you have to drive onto a more crowded Autobahn like A7.
Great blog! I have only been a passenger on the autobahn , but i think my brother did about 230-235km/h driving our Audi A6 with a skibox on top and 3 bicycles on the back. Gotta admit thats even just as a passenger it was kinda awesome. He rarely went above 180 though usually.
Here at home the roads are horrible and the highest limit within a 5 hour drive is 80km/h. I think the highest i've done is 140 when speeding to reach a local ferry. In general doing anything over 100 will lose you your licence and ain't safe because of the roads anyways.
On July 16 2012 04:14 Salv wrote: I don't know how some people here have driven 200+ kmph on a highway, anytime my car (2006 Toyota Corolla) gets to about 130/140 I can feel that I have a lot less control, especially if it's even moderately windy outside. Going anything past 150 seems really, really dangerous and scary even if the highway was empty.
Thats because your car was not built to handle those high speeds.
I definitely agree that driving a small car at high speeds is dangerous, as you don't have as much control and the car will veer all over the place. But believe me, it makes a huge difference to be in a big car thats built for such speeds (think larger BMWs, Mercedes and Audis). You barely notice the speed, meaning the car is still easy to control and you won't be having problems driving straight. I would personally never go beyond 180 or so in a smaller car, too unsafe. People who have never driven in a car like this have a hard time believing that there are cars where such high speeds can be handled, but if you get a chance just try it out I cannot speak for high-end sports cars like Ferraris, never driven anything like that. I'd imagine they are harder to control.
I'll take your word for it. My fiancee drives an old Dodge Neon and I have a Toyota Corolla so I'm only used to small vehicles, I've never even been in a Mercedes or BMW, that would be an explanation though, that they can handle the speeds better.
A rich friend of mine got a new and pretty tuned Ford Mustang for his 18th birthday and though I usually don't care about cars and I know that on an intellectual level, two 18 year olds who justed started driving in doing 250 on the Autobahn is retarded, I utterly enjoyed the night.
There was something about the speed and the noise of the car that really lets you appreciate all the technology and science that went into expensive cars.
€: Also, your next one should be about Brot and Brötchen. It's impossible to find decent non-German Brötchen basically anywhere in the world.
I saw this 'end of speed limits' sign before in Belarus, Id assume it exists in many countries of former USSR but obviously is very rare and only applies to short distances. You dont want to try doing 250 in Russia given their road conditions lol.
German car pride definitly echoes like crazy in my family, the net worth of our cars far outweigh how much our own house is worth lol.. Also my family has never been known to follow the speed limit anywhere in germany and modded their cars like crazy (my uncle literally removes everything he doesnt need in a car for making it lightweight, even the radio, makes for a very uncomfortable ride haha) Despite all that they've never been in accidents ever. Never driven on the autobahn myself but hopefully I get to eventually and it remains pure to its no speed limit roots, because if it really does live up to being very safe whats the harm keep it that way.
A couple years ago I flew into Stuttgart to visit my oma/opa who lives in a small village outside of Ulm.. anyway I was seriously dejected that I rented like a 335i and it was 120km the whole way. Talk about a waste of money..should have got a jetta.
If you want no speed limits Saudi is the place to be. My dad worked there so we lived there in the 1990s and you could litterally get up to 260km because roads connecting cities are straight and flat.
Man, I'd love to drive on the autobahn. The fastest I've driven is 130mphwhich is close to 220kmph in my 09 corolla. I had it maxed out. It's dangerous at that speed. Thecar shakes and meh. This was when I got the car in 09 though.
The fastest I've been in a car is 260kmph or around 160mph. Fml so scary
Huh. Thought the accident rate would be much higher than that. I guess higher speeds =/= more accidents? Guess this proves slow driving is dangerous too lolol
I personally love the Autobahn, but in comparison to driving e.g. in France on their Autoroute (speed limit of 130km/h, very few entries/exits and quite some toll on it, very limited traffic if you don't happen to be in the vincinity of one of the bigger cities, especially compared to Germany) it is really much much more stressfull to drive in Germany. That's for one not only because it tires you much more to go that fast yourself (stress level much higher), but even more so because you have to be really really careful to e.g. not go over to the left lane when there's some guy approaching with >200km/h, even if you yourself are going >160 km/h or something. The margin of error at such speeds is very small. Also, it can be very frustrating if you have a car which simply isn't able to go as fast, because you ultimately will be bullied in some way if you happen to take over some truck or something and block some guy who wants to go lol250km/h.
That's why I would prefer having "interactive" speed limit shields like these: for basically everywhere on the Autobahn. If there's some traffic/danger, don't let people drive too fast; if there's no traffic just let them go as they want (at nights especially). That'd be perfect for me. We already have quite a few passages with these adaptive shields, I'd really love them everywhere.
Sorry, didn't want to be a partypooper here, going fast is great and I like it myself, but there's certain issues to it in my eyes..
On July 16 2012 16:02 hns wrote: I personally love the Autobahn, but in comparison to driving e.g. in France on their Autoroute (speed limit of 130km/h, very few entries/exits and quite some toll on it, very limited traffic if you don't happen to be in the vincinity of one of the bigger cities, especially compared to Germany) it is really much much more stressfull to drive in Germany. That's for one not only because it tires you much more to go that fast yourself (stress level much higher), but even more so because you have to be really really careful to e.g. not go over to the left lane when there's some guy approaching with >200km/h, even if you yourself are going >160 km/h or something. The margin of error at such speeds is very small. Also, it can be very frustrating if you have a car which simply isn't able to go as fast, because you ultimately will be bullied in some way if you happen to take over some truck or something and block some guy who wants to go lol250km/h.
Sorry, didn't want to be a partypooper here, going fast is great and I like it myself, but there's certain issues to it in my eyes..
I had the 'joy' of driving on the motorway in Mallorca not long ago. People were driving quite slowly, right hand lane always below 100, left hand lane maybe 110, and it was stressful as hell. Their signage sucks, and people go crazy changing lanes, Autobahn is way more relaxing. Same thing applies for the motorway in Australia - way more stressful than Germany, as everyone is sticking to the speed limit, but NO ONE pays attention to staying left, or leaving enough room between cars.
The numbers speak for themselves really, only a small part of road deaths in Germany happens on the Autobahn (e.g. 602 of 4949 total in the year 2008). A general speed limit is just not necessary.
You also should mention that if you're involved in an accident doing over 130 km/h the insurance will make you cover up to 1/4 of the costs yourself, unless you prove that the accident would also have happened at 130 km/h (which is almost impossible).
On July 16 2012 01:43 Gecko[Xp] wrote: On a side note: I really hate people that drive faster than 180 km/h on the Autobahn. That's just careless, don't tell me you could possible react fast enough or keep enough overview to safely slow down before shit happens. And it's fucking scary to watch your mirror just to see these flashes coming closer and closer, starting to tailgate around 150-180 km/h. Uncool.
It's a bit unfair to generalize like that. Yes there are aggressive drivers, but not everyone who drives fast is like that. I love to drive fast but I never, ever flash someone because I have to break. And sure you can safely drive fast. It just depends on conditions and road congestion.
Generally people who drive fast just have to deal with breaking for others. It's a very simple matter of respectful driving. Why should someone at moderate speeds have to break instead of overtaking just because the left lane goes faster. No, as the faster driver you definitely have to accept that you have to break more often, period.
If the boys in the BMWs got that, and everyone was generally more attentive on the Autobahn virtually all safety problems with speed would be gone.
I agree with hns - adaptive speed limits is the way to go. People trying to go 200+ in heavy traffic is what gives fast driving a bad rep: It's unsafe, not faster at all, causes traffic jams, and is a colossal waste of fuel. So I am totally for limiting speed during rush hour. Just carpeting the road with 120 signs though makes it soooo annoying to drive at night, or when there happens to be no traffic. As expensive as it is - adaptive speed limits gogo.
On July 16 2012 03:22 Zudimi wrote: Nice blog, did you enter the autobahn at Walldorf? Do you live there?
Yeah that was Walldorf. I don't live there though, it was a Sunday morning and I was driving people home from a night out in Frankfurt.
EPT
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