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Subtitle: Why is everyone upset.
Subsubtitle: Accounting is boring and I'm avoiding work
hey there QTs~
I feel like any comparison of SC2 and Broodwar is helped by a little background on where it's coming from. So for the record, I started this whole train in 2008ish watching Jaedong and Bisu be cool. I've played both Broodwar and SC2 equally embarrassingly and stayed up far too late watching Koreans I didn't know play both games.
This blog came about when I read a post earlier today-
I think you came to this conclusion all by yourself.
Does it not embarrass sc2 fans when famous bw players openly admit that sc2 is easier. That's not my opinion, it's their's, if you don't believe me research it.
This seems to be a common thread in the forum these days- people caring about relative difficulty of the two games. It seems to have become the most important metric to the casual forum warrior.
Personally, I have never felt difficulty to be a great indicator of either how fun a game is to play or to watch. When I look at an RTS there are several things I take into account-
- Visuals: Can I tell what's going on? Do my eyes hurt staring at it?
- Handling: Do things respond smoothly? Is the tempo of the game good?
- Competitiveness: Does the better player generally win?
Difficulty at this point becomes a subset of Competitiveness. If a game is ridiculously easy, say tictactoe, it's no fun to play because there's no room to outplay your opponent. I think it's a fair point to say that both SC2 and Broodwar give a good amount of room to outplay your opponent.
So, I sat there wondering why people felt so compelled to talk about difficulty. Perhaps Rainmaker, I thought, you are just in the minority and people relish a challenge and love the work put in. But then I remembered that most of us are garbage at these games so not many challenges are being relished.
Then I thought- Maybe Rainmaker, people love to see highly skilled players go about doing expert maneuvers us lesser mortals couldn't expect to duplicate. But, then I remembered that most of us can't really claim to recognize what is expert level. Sure I can see that MKP or Bisu or whoever has fantastic control, but really I don't have a good point of reference. My years of team micro arena haven't made me talented enough to really appreciate the play, because that'd me to be able to grasp it.
So I sat and I struggled with these thoughts and managed to put away a good amount of my lonelytimes!scotch and came to the following conclusion:
+ Show Spoiler +People like to argue on the internet.
 
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On July 01 2012 06:15 Chef wrote:
GROAN
This is revenge for me reading "I'm sorry" and expecting it to have a point.
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I can't believe you were bored and came up with this.
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A difficult game is more fun because you feel accomplished when you play well. A difficult game also makes you feel more accomplished if you are above average at it.
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Arguing is merely an act of expressing an opinion that disagrees with another. Contrary to what you may think, people don't acquire opinions randomly just so that they can argue opposing ones!
You need to be bored some more so you can think this through. 
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Hey bro, you didn't hook me up for dota2 earlier this week, I'm disappointed.
About your blog? I suppose noone can say you're wrong because you didnt give anything but a criteria which is up for one self to figure out
And cus the blog was good but I wanted to argue since your not on skype (and was disappointed) it'll be 4/5
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On July 01 2012 06:15 Chef wrote:
GROAN
User was warned for this post
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I disagree wholeheartedly. People do not "like" to argue on the internet, they feel compelled to.
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Welp, that was a fairly pointless blog. It felt very much like you're saying "people like to argue, so whatever they argue about has no point or substance." I was hoping for a bit more meat and a bit less bringing up a topic solely to completely dodge it.
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On July 01 2012 06:08 Rainmaker5 wrote:
People like to argue on the internet.
I DISAGREE
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Oh my lord you definitely dislike accounting.
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On July 01 2012 08:14 Kibibit wrote:
Welp, that was a fairly pointless blog. It felt very much like you're saying "people like to argue, so whatever they argue about has no point or substance." I was hoping for a bit more meat and a bit less bringing up a topic solely to completely dodge it.
And I feel that you should jack off and do some squats. Shit is far too serious these days.
On July 01 2012 06:53 Talin wrote:Arguing is merely an act of expressing an opinion that disagrees with another. Contrary to what you may think, people don't acquire opinions randomly just so that they can argue opposing ones!You need to be bored some more so you can think this through.
I am pretty sure this is exactly what goes on. If I sat down with someone for 20 minutes and talked to them about why they felt a certain way it'd eventually come down to pure preference. I'd be more than happy to actually do this and stream it.
Or rather, have someone else stream it. I'm in India for a month and the connection can't really handle it.
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On July 01 2012 15:59 Rainmaker5 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:53 Talin wrote:
Contrary to what you may think, people don't acquire opinions randomly just so that they can argue opposing ones! I am pretty sure this is exactly what goes on. If I sat down with someone for 20 minutes and talked to them about why they felt a certain way it'd eventually come down to pure preference.
How would that disprove Talin's claim?
You: People just like to argue.
Talin: People actually like the things they defend in an argument.
You: Nono, people just like the things.
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On July 01 2012 06:08 Rainmaker5 wrote:Then I thought- Maybe Rainmaker, people love to see highly skilled players go about doing expert maneuvers us lesser mortals couldn't expect to duplicate. But, then I remembered that most of us can't really claim to recognize what is expert level. Sure I can see that MKP or Bisu or whoever has fantastic control, but really I don't have a good point of reference. My years of team micro arena haven't made me talented enough to really appreciate the play, because that'd me to be able to grasp it.
You must be god awful at micro if you can't tell the difference between Bisu level "wtf how is that even possible" and MKP level "oh, that was cute. I'll use that next game"
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Russian Federation142 Posts
On July 01 2012 07:33 GolemMadness wrote:
One star.
You read my mind. Never read a shittier blog.
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On July 01 2012 18:11 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:08 Rainmaker5 wrote:Then I thought- Maybe Rainmaker, people love to see highly skilled players go about doing expert maneuvers us lesser mortals couldn't expect to duplicate. But, then I remembered that most of us can't really claim to recognize what is expert level. Sure I can see that MKP or Bisu or whoever has fantastic control, but really I don't have a good point of reference. My years of team micro arena haven't made me talented enough to really appreciate the play, because that'd me to be able to grasp it. You must be god awful at micro if you can't tell the difference between Bisu level "wtf how is that even possible" and MKP level "oh, that was cute. I'll use that next game"
The main point is, even if there is a difference I really don't care. My enjoyment and excitement have nothing to do with the skill level involved. And I really feel at core most people don't really care either. The excitement I feel when a player holds is just because I feel emotionally connected to the player, not because I have a deep mechanical appreciation for the techniques involved.
Watching a game is not an analytic or cerebral experience, it's a very emotional one. Less difficulty doesn't make something less enjoyable.
On July 01 2012 17:45 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 15:59 Rainmaker5 wrote:On July 01 2012 06:53 Talin wrote:
Contrary to what you may think, people don't acquire opinions randomly just so that they can argue opposing ones! I am pretty sure this is exactly what goes on. If I sat down with someone for 20 minutes and talked to them about why they felt a certain way it'd eventually come down to pure preference. How would that disprove Talin's claim? You: People just like to argue. Talin: People actually like the things they defend in an argument. You: Nono, people just like the things.
Well, I don't think most arguments on the forum are about the issues. It's all what a shitty game, look at these fucking elitists yadayada. There's no coherency. It seems to me people basically feel that they're personally getting attacked when someone doesn't like their game and respond by stringing together a bunch of words.
This is how I feel when I read the forum
TL-1: I like BW
TL-2: I like SC2
1&2: FUCKING CAGE MATCH TIME
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On July 01 2012 15:59 Rainmaker5 wrote:
Well, I don't think most arguments on the forum are about the issues. It's all what a shitty game, look at these fucking elitists yadayada. There's no coherency. It seems to me people basically feel that they're personally getting attacked when someone doesn't like their game and respond by stringing together a bunch of words.
This is how I feel when I read the forum
TL-1: I like BW
TL-2: I like SC2
1&2: FUCKING CAGE MATCH TIME
The problem with that is that, most of the time, people don't actually have the patience or the ability to properly communicate the reasoning behind their preferences. That doesn't mean the reasoning isn't there - although it does mean they should probably post less on the subject and let people who know how to communicate do it instead!
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On July 01 2012 21:38 Rainmaker5 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 18:11 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On July 01 2012 06:08 Rainmaker5 wrote:Then I thought- Maybe Rainmaker, people love to see highly skilled players go about doing expert maneuvers us lesser mortals couldn't expect to duplicate. But, then I remembered that most of us can't really claim to recognize what is expert level. Sure I can see that MKP or Bisu or whoever has fantastic control, but really I don't have a good point of reference. My years of team micro arena haven't made me talented enough to really appreciate the play, because that'd me to be able to grasp it. You must be god awful at micro if you can't tell the difference between Bisu level "wtf how is that even possible" and MKP level "oh, that was cute. I'll use that next game" The main point is, even if there is a difference I really don't care. My enjoyment and excitement have nothing to do with the skill level involved. And I really feel at core most people don't really care either. The excitement I feel when a player holds is just because I feel emotionally connected to the player, not because I have a deep mechanical appreciation for the techniques involved. Watching a game is not an analytic or cerebral experience, it's a very emotional one. Less difficulty doesn't make something less enjoyable.
That's you, but - as you kinda point out yourself - there are different types of fans.
Personally I've always been fascinated by the mechanics of BW. I don't even like strategy games too much. I love watching high level players bust out their APM to deal with the shitty interface, I consider it art when done properly and it's the thing that kept me interested in BW from the moment I have first tried it and later seen Boxer play it.
I've never really been a fan of a particular team/player.
If you're a fan of the teams/players, you're going to have an easier time switching games since you can switch to pretty much any game/sport that is popular and you'll get what you're looking for. But if you're a fan of a certain game, moving on isn't as easy. It might not even be possible.
Sorry to interrupt another one of your conversations :p But I'm pretty sure there's a lot more people like me (with different preferences). And there are also people in the middle, who get the best of both (the game and the players, the drama etc.). Either way - it is there, and you shouldn't deny it just because you don't feel it.
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Ah yeah, these are pretty reasonable points.
I have to confess I wrote this at 3 as a joke on how serious people take the drama, but then poe's law kicked in then I became the kook haha.
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EPT
