To my and hopefully your excitement, i created a list of the best 30 foreign players. As you may know, those lists are rly subjective. I try to look at achievements and latest results, but its unavoidable to get personal opinions into this. There is no such thing as the perfect „ranking“, but i enjoy doing those, most ppl enjoy reading them, but not many ppl put rankings out there. My ranking is purely about foreign players and i exclude asian, non korean players as well – that means you wont find chinese or taiwanese players in my ranking. The simple reason being: i dont have much information about these scenes. I obviously know that Sen, Xigua and also MacSed are great players, but its impossible to compare them to the players in EU and NA. So you could consider it a „Western Foreigner Top 30“.
I put quite some work into it and i hope i get at least some reads, since i think a ranking made by a random person should be posted as a blog and not as a thread in the general section, even though it might end up with no responses at all.
So here is the list for this month! (i try to release one every month)
Please leave a comment about how you like my ranking, what u think i could do better and stuff like that. Which players are overrated? which are underrated? Did i leave out players completely?
On June 05 2012 07:37 MCDayC wrote: Illusion still needs to be higher, Mana, even though i love him, isn't top 10, and Idra may still be a tiny bit too high. Good list though.
i agree on MaNa not rly being top 10 - but there isnt a 10th player for the top 10 atm. all players beind him just got to that point and arent rly better than him as well i feel
Grubby is way way too low. He recently 3-0'd Ret and beat him again in a bo3, not sure about the score. Won against morrow, bling, socke, titan, darkforce, and beat ryung and oz at mlg spring. He's definitely had better results than mana, shelth, morrow, or happy in the recent few months.
On June 05 2012 07:44 NrGmonk wrote: Grubby is way way too low. He recently 3-0'd Ret and beat him again in a bo3, not sure about the score. Won against morrow, bling, socke, titan, darkforce, and beat ryung and oz at mlg spring. He's definitely had better results than mana, shelth, morrow, or happy in the recent few months.
On June 05 2012 07:56 Knap4life wrote: Who is Titan? I never heard of him, Anyone can give me a quick review of him?
Mid-tier Russian player. Best result is probably 4th at WCG where he beat players like Kiwikaki and Supernova. I think he won a RaidCall Invitational as well? Maybe he was second.
On June 05 2012 07:44 NrGmonk wrote: Grubby is way way too low. He recently 3-0'd Ret and beat him again in a bo3, not sure about the score. Won against morrow, bling, socke, titan, darkforce, and beat ryung and oz at mlg spring. He's definitely had better results than mana, shelth, morrow, or happy in the recent few months.
Don't understand why morrow got +5.
4-0 idra for example. played great games in teamleagues for mouz.
On June 05 2012 07:51 Megakenny wrote: I don't know how TLO gets out ranked by a lot of these guys after he almost qualified for Code A.
lost horribly in the german wcs qualifier. even had trouble qualifing for the best 16.
Ppl that didnt hear about titan should rly read the tlpd a bit... mid tier russian - lol. There is no protoss player who has better stats outside of korea vs Stephano. Also, his best matchup isnt PvZ... its clearly PvT.
@ grubby's rank he probably is slightly underrated by me atm, could be 13th or 14th. But i hesitate to overrate him, since i love him since i watched him first in wc3 2007. dont wanna let my fanboyism out too much, so i rather put him higher slowly.
again, making such a ranking is incredibly hard to make. you forget about single results that happened. i try my best and appreciate your feedback
I think NightEnd is much higher than 24. Although he isn't putting many results up, he's GM on kr server KOREA SERVER, not to mention that some of these foreigners up there can't make GM on KR if they trained there.
I would actually like to hear slightly more reasoning with each player, but that sounds like a lot of work. I also like how it creates fun discussion about players. And don't take the comments about your list being "wrong" personally, everyone is biased one way or another.
On June 05 2012 09:06 Palmar wrote: I love this list.
I would actually like to hear slightly more reasoning with each player, but that sounds like a lot of work. I also like how it creates fun discussion about players. And don't take the comments about your list being "wrong" personally, everyone is biased one way or another.
haha i dont, its normal that everyone has different opinions. i thought about reasonings for players, at least for those who dropped / upped a lot in their rank. But its a shitton of work, you need to read all players TLPD of the month. Also, i dont feel that my english is fluent enough for stuff like that. An open discussion is ok as well i guess - at least for now.
On June 05 2012 07:51 Megakenny wrote: I don't know how TLO gets out ranked by a lot of these guys after he almost qualified for Code A.
lost horribly in the german wcs qualifier. even had trouble qualifing for the best 16.
Ppl that didnt hear about titan should rly read the tlpd a bit... mid tier russian - lol. There is no protoss player who has better stats outside of korea vs Stephano. Also, his best matchup isnt PvZ... its clearly PvT.
@ grubby's rank he probably is slightly underrated by me atm, could be 13th or 14th. But i hesitate to overrate him, since i love him since i watched him first in wc3 2007. dont wanna let my fanboyism out too much, so i rather put him higher slowly.
again, making such a ranking is incredibly hard to make. you forget about single results that happened. i try my best and appreciate your feedback
thanks guys!
I should have said mid-tier European(do Russian players play on the EU server? I don't know. I always assumed they did), hes definitely not top tier in my opinion. Beating Stephano and losing to other players doesn't mean hes amazing, he just has Stephanos number.
On June 05 2012 07:51 Megakenny wrote: I don't know how TLO gets out ranked by a lot of these guys after he almost qualified for Code A.
lost horribly in the german wcs qualifier. even had trouble qualifing for the best 16.
Ppl that didnt hear about titan should rly read the tlpd a bit... mid tier russian - lol. There is no protoss player who has better stats outside of korea vs Stephano. Also, his best matchup isnt PvZ... its clearly PvT.
What about babyknight? =D
On June 05 2012 09:06 Palmar wrote: I love this list.
I would actually like to hear slightly more reasoning with each player, but that sounds like a lot of work. I also like how it creates fun discussion about players. And don't take the comments about your list being "wrong" personally, everyone is biased one way or another.
Wait for MLG Anaheim preview. You'll be in for a treat.
On June 05 2012 07:51 Megakenny wrote: I don't know how TLO gets out ranked by a lot of these guys after he almost qualified for Code A.
lost horribly in the german wcs qualifier. even had trouble qualifing for the best 16.
Ppl that didnt hear about titan should rly read the tlpd a bit... mid tier russian - lol. There is no protoss player who has better stats outside of korea vs Stephano. Also, his best matchup isnt PvZ... its clearly PvT.
On June 05 2012 09:06 Palmar wrote: I love this list.
I would actually like to hear slightly more reasoning with each player, but that sounds like a lot of work. I also like how it creates fun discussion about players. And don't take the comments about your list being "wrong" personally, everyone is biased one way or another.
Wait for MLG Anaheim preview. You'll be in for a treat.
YAYYY!!!! Can you release it more than like 10 minutes before the tournament begins though? For me that always seems to happen.
On June 05 2012 09:20 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Can't wait for LastShadow to start playing in some big tourneys and get on this list
There was Red Bull LAN, though he was basically dealt a near-winnable hand by being placed in a group with Ret, Squirtle and PartinG. I honestly wonder why he doesn't attend more tournaments, the guy moved to Korea to train, yet prior to RBL, hadn't participated in a LAN for years.
Nani makes it to Code S ro8 and is the second best foreigner? That boggles me a little. Could just be "I don't like Stephano's playstyle" rearing its head. Also, Demuslim beat Hero in NASL, but he dropped two spots? Seems weird to me. Otherwise, I rather like the list! ^.^
I don't follow GSL at all - but can someone explain me why HuK is top 5. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge, huge fan of his play and tune into his matches when I get the chance - but its not that often sadly. However, recently whenever I see him play, he's usually on the losing end ( I could be wrong and just get unlucky with the games I see, but still). What has he done to justify his top 5 ranking?
On June 05 2012 19:43 sixfour wrote: demuslim being ranked and bling not being ranked seems odd to me
demuslim delivers permanently at teamleagues and NASL, beating great players like HerO and Ryung. While BlinG won their duels, he never had a great appearance anywhere else. Also, his best mu is TvP, while demuslims PvT was subpar for a long time (he seems to get the hang of it now).
If you put Demsulim and BlinG in the same group of 10 players, Demuslim would clearly be the favorite to do better atm. It would simply be unfair to rank BlinG atm, although he obviously has the talent to easily be in the top 30.
On June 05 2012 15:45 mahi29 wrote: I don't follow GSL at all - but can someone explain me why HuK is top 5. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge, huge fan of his play and tune into his matches when I get the chance - but its not that often sadly. However, recently whenever I see him play, he's usually on the losing end ( I could be wrong and just get unlucky with the games I see, but still). What has he done to justify his top 5 ranking?
you have to see that he comes from a top 2 rank and it was 100% justified 3 months ago. Yes, he had bad performances in the meanwhile, but he also plays against great player more consistantly than others. I wont players of his or IdrA's caliber too fast, simply because those players could potentially do great stuff even against koreans, and then suddenly your ranking gets invalid. If HuK keeps underperforming for a longer time, he obviously will slowly drop in ranks, just as idra did in the past 3 months.
So do i overrate HuK only concidering the results of last month? Yes, most likely. Does he still deserve a top 5 spot? I believe that he barely does.
You don't mention Welmu neither, that's really surprising he has been very strong in team leagues for Eclypsia and has been beasting since the Gathering.
Wow, once more a great list ! Props to KalWarkov !
Demuslim might be doing good while sitting behind his own PC, in a comfortable and well known environment. But when do you ever see him qualifying for a major tournament ? Never.
Eventhough he has dropped two places, I still think he shouldn't be in the top 20. Because rating a player should be done in the best circumstances...on a stage, with a crowd, an unknown environment..
I feel that counts for Sheth, Happy and Select aswell !
Also, I am wondering about Feast, no doubt he has great potential, but since he has been quite inactive..why did he go up ?
Last, concerning Snute...I think he is closest to being in the top 30 out of all the other good players who didn't make the top 30.
On June 05 2012 21:19 Otolia wrote: You don't mention Welmu neither, that's really surprising he has been very strong in team leagues for Eclypsia and has been beasting since the Gathering.
true. i dont think he yet deserves a mentioning. he, just like babyknight, seiplo, bly and around 25 other players are in the following list that i dont publish^^ it would be too much!
On June 05 2012 21:19 Otolia wrote: You don't mention Welmu neither, that's really surprising he has been very strong in team leagues for Eclypsia and has been beasting since the Gathering.
true. i dont think he yet deserves a mentioning. he, just like babyknight, seiplo, bly and around 25 other players are in the following list that i dont publish^^ it would be too much!
Hm, you do have Axslav in your "following 20" list, and I do think that Welmu is at least on Axslav's level at the moment, imho he's better by quite a bit, especially if you look at their recent performances (compare their results in IPL TAC3 for example).
On June 05 2012 07:44 NrGmonk wrote: Grubby is way way too low. He recently 3-0'd Ret and beat him again in a bo3, not sure about the score. Won against morrow, bling, socke, titan, darkforce, and beat ryung and oz at mlg spring. He's definitely had better results than mana, shelth, morrow, or happy in the recent few months.
Don't understand why morrow got +5.
This. I'd say it's pretty safe to say that Grubby is a top 10 foreigner now, based on last months results.
Other than that, decent list again. (Ofc I still think you overrate Happy who sucks at LAN, where it matters. )
Grubby defenetly has top 10, if not better performances occasionally. His problem is still consistency i feel. He just yesterday lost in round 4 of the HSC qualifiers (which are obviously not as important) against Forsen. Things like these still happen too often to rate him top 10 i feel. But i agree rank 13 or 14 would be satisfied probably.
On June 07 2012 00:41 KalWarkov wrote: Grubby defenetly has top 10, if not better performances occasionally. His problem is still consistency i feel. He just yesterday lost in round 4 of the HSC qualifiers (which are obviously not as important) against Forsen. Things like these still happen too often to rate him top 10 i feel. But i agree rank 13 or 14 would be satisfied probably.
You do realise that round of the HSC qualifier were BO1 matches, which is very different in a BO3. It's the same thing as not being able to get like a 90% win score while laddering.
I don't understand how Kas can be higher than LucifroN o_o. His TvP is a bit shaky but his TvZ and his TvT are monstruous... And he still has room to improve. Kas is doing very good as well but almost only online... They should be reverted with LucifroN 7th and Kas 9th imo. Other than that it's hard to judge players that we don't see (Feast, ToD). Oh and why is IdrA so high again? Illusion has been performing far better for a looong time.
Ret it's hard to judge, sometimes he does very good, sometimes he disappoints... But you got the most important (top 3) right, the bottom is really hard to judge and there will always be bias because results only are hard to compare. Nice idea.
I could see Bly as a part of a top-10. He is winning cups left and right this year, just took another 5 gold medals in may; defeated "top-5-player"-HuK in Spring Arena and three-killed Prime. I would see him in front of many zergs in this List, maybe even in front of all except Stephano.
Other than that I could see Tefel on that list, Beasty, Hasu and Illusion a bit higher and Happy, Sheth, HuK and (as much as it hurts me to say) Dimaga a bit lower. But otherwise great work as always.
Edit: Sry for grammar, but I just watched MLG the whole night and I am really tired right now.
On June 09 2012 16:25 Xoronius wrote: I could see Bly as a part of a top-10. He is winning cups left and right this year, just took another 5 gold medals in may; defeated "top-5-player"-HuK in Spring Arena and three-killed Prime. I would see him in front of many zergs in this List, maybe even in front of all except Stephano.
Other than that I could see Tefel on that list, Beasty, Hasu and Illusion a bit higher and Happy, Sheth, HuK and (as much as it hurts me to say) Dimaga a bit lower. But otherwise great work as always.
Edit: Sry for grammar, but I just watched MLG the whole night and I am really tired right now.
Bly is a very abusive player and winning online cups isnt too much an achievement. any top 30 player would constantly win online cups if they would participate more often.
Yes, he beat HuK lately and had a good run just as tefel, but thats pretty much all he did on an international scale (despite his great performance in IPLTAC3 vs prime). the problem is: who would you leave out for him? i cant make it a top35 just because some players might be as good as rank 25-30. i have to stick with 30. if i dont, we have 50 players in the ranking in 3 months^^
On June 09 2012 16:25 Xoronius wrote: I could see Bly as a part of a top-10. He is winning cups left and right this year, just took another 5 gold medals in may; defeated "top-5-player"-HuK in Spring Arena and three-killed Prime. I would see him in front of many zergs in this List, maybe even in front of all except Stephano.
Other than that I could see Tefel on that list, Beasty, Hasu and Illusion a bit higher and Happy, Sheth, HuK and (as much as it hurts me to say) Dimaga a bit lower. But otherwise great work as always.
Edit: Sry for grammar, but I just watched MLG the whole night and I am really tired right now.
Bly is a very abusive player and winning online cups isnt too much an achievement. any top 30 player would constantly win online cups if they would participate more often.
Yes, he beat HuK lately and had a good run just as tefel, but thats pretty much all he did on an international scale (despite his great performance in IPLTAC3 vs prime). the problem is: who would you leave out for him? i cant make it a top35 just because some players might be as good as rank 25-30. i have to stick with 30. if i dont, we have 50 players in the ranking in 3 months^^
Yeah, sure, but like I said, I could replace pretty much anyone of that list with Bly. I mean, what did for example Sheth, SeleCT or Slivko do, what would jusitfy ranking them above him?
And winning online cups means smth.. If someone has a "breakout performance" in a major tournament, you can almost everytime look at the results of online-cups 1-2 months before and you will find the name there.
Sase should get a bit higher after MLG, passing Huk and maybe Thorzain. Nerchio is back in form (TLPD #2) and should pass Ret+Kas. Why did Feast get a +3? I would have put him further down since he is concentrating on school ATM and not playing much (and no especially good results).
Bly should finally make the Top30 after his 3-kill vs Prime in IPLTAC.
i will give my (subjectiv) opinion on the current ranking.
Idra should not be part of the list. his biggest achievement in 2012 was 4th in the USA Nationals. Nothing against him but he does not deserve a spot here atm.
Fraer should be in there and I also think Mana and maybe even Dimaga is abit to low considering how well all these 3 played at Dreamhack. Select and Idra also way to high Illusion should be higher. Vibe should be mention he just won the American WCG. But beside these small nitpickings the list looks pretty solid.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephano6wfqe.jpg)
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Stephano ------ 2.
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