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A warning to my fellow gamers and designers in the eSports community,
My name is Nathaniel Snow (LGSaxon) and I come to you on TL to issue a warning about a specific individual I recently encountered. I just like many out there, I love Starcraft and the community around it and for close to a year I have been pursuing a career in eSports as a graphic designer. On my stream at twitchtv.com, I on a regular basis stream the work I do and discuss the create process I go thru as I work. Recently I have been privileged to become the lead graphic designer for a growing team as well as one of the team’s managers. This opportunity gave me the ability to spread my name out there in eSports and pick up clients outside of the team. This brings me the subject of this post.
Apr 24, 2012 I was approached by an individual named Anthony Girit, who was interested in commissioning a design for his live steams. After a bit of discussion I was happy and eager to accept the job as for one of my first paid commissions. I asked him for all the info I needed and got started on a rough draft. I spent a few days working on the piece and when the rough draft was ready I placed a watermark on it and sent it to him for his approval and to ask if he needed anything changed or adjusted.
+ Show Spoiler +
After the first conversation contact with him became erratic. It took days to get into contact with him and I was finally forced to search for him on Facebook to try and make contact again. It was almost 2 weeks later before I heard from him and he informed me he wanted the design changed from Zerg to Terran which was not a huge deal but after the lapse of contact I was slightly concerned about the situation.
+ Show Spoiler +
May 7, 2012 I made the final changes Girit asked for and sent him another draft in an email and ask if he was satisfied with the design. Him response was beyond approval and he asked me what the cost was. After giving him the final cost for the piece contact went silent once again and he was impossible to get ahold of. I kept trying to talk to him on Starcraft 2 and then he began a great tale of being completely oblivious to the commission and the design he asked for. He then told me that an individual that works for him used his name and business stating that was who I had been contacting and conducting business with for the past 30 days.
+ Show Spoiler +
As you can imagine this was a huge problem. I informed him that even if his story was true, it was commissioned for his name and company so he was responsible for it. The following chat conversation occurred right after this:
+ Show Spoiler +
Anthony Girit then paid close to half the amount and I gave him until the 1st of June to pay the rest. On the first I contacted him and he refused to pay and still has not paid the full amount. He has refused to keep in contact and does not accept invoices I send him thru paypal. Now I am here, sending this warning out to stay away from this character Anthony Girit. He is in my opinion the definition of a “swindler” and lacks ethical and moral fiber. He is not to be trusted in business any transactions. In my opinion his actions are equal to maphackers and stream snipers. I am also not the first company to have to deal with Anthony Girit. cheetahhost.com hired him and he was fired for not doing his work and not keeping in contact with the company. I have learned a lesson in all this, that I cannot have such faith in people and now my commissions must be paid partially in advance which was not how I wanted my business to operate. It is sad because of individuals like him I must put these rules into my business. If you have read this far I would like to thank you for taking the time and reading this and to warn you again of Anthony Girit and his business.
Information on Anthony Girit:
+ Show Spoiler +
Thank you again for your time. I appreciate those of you who read this. If any of you would like to commission designs for your stream or know someone who would like designs for theirs please feel free to contact me and visit my page
Also No
  
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You have a lot to learn if you plan on doing freelance work... no offense.
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I'm sorry but ... People get scammed all the time ! I mean it's great and all you're telling us about this guy but ... big deal ? A random guy on the internet sent you a mail asking for a design and then didn't pay all of it so what ?
Edit ; the worst this guy can do is scam other people like that, he is not even remotely as annoying as say maphackers.
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He didn't get anything from you did he? I thought you watermarked.
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That sucks man.
And it does really suck, that's quoted to be more than 10 hours of work for what, half of 35 dollars? 3.50 an hour? Though maybe there should've been an estimate at the beginning of the deal rather than him asking how much after all the work has been put in?
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you said u put a watermark on it, how can he possibly scam u that way?
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Well in the end he payed you.
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United States22154 Posts
1.) don't give out personal info
2.) Don't take this opportunity to advertise.
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On June 04 2012 07:03 PR4Y wrote:
You have a lot to learn if you plan on doing freelance work... no offense.
No offense taken thats why I am out there to learn along the way =D
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On June 04 2012 08:04 Xiron wrote:
Well in the end he payed you.
He paid half of it
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On June 04 2012 07:52 Ktk wrote:
That sucks man.
And it does really suck, that's quoted to be more than 10 hours of work for what, half of 35 dollars? 3.50 an hour? Though maybe there should've been an estimate at the beginning of the deal rather than him asking how much after all the work has been put in?
I'm not charging people alot right now because I am so to speak "green" to the community. Like ive said Im very new to this and very new to working for myself.
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Does not gives you the right to go around spreading his personal information.
It could even be considered crime of defamation...
Btw, how much one of those are worth? The stream overlays I mean.
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As someone who is in a similar business model (I charge for my time) let me give you this advice.
1. Give an estimate of cost up front and stick to it (even if it takes longer than you estimated--this will make you get better at estimates).
2. Get money up front.
3. Agree to terms in writing. A formal contract is best, but at least an email exchange (i.e. One email that says the terms and a return email that says "I accept") that sets out the material terms: price (or rate per hour), amount of deposit, date of delivery, terms for late payment.
4. TALK MONEY EARLY--the later the money talk is had, the worse it goes. Having the talk early is great because you say, "It's going to cost X, and I need Y to get started." And they will either say, "Sure, here's some money," or "Oh, I can't afford that." And both are good, because if they can't pay, you don't have to do the work.
Both parties have some blame here.
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On June 04 2012 08:29 Mr. Black wrote:
As someone who is in a similar business model (I charge for my time) let me give you this advice.
1. Give an estimate of cost up front and stick to it (even if it takes longer than you estimated--this will make you get better at estimates).
2. Get money up front.
3. Agree to terms in writing. A formal contract is best, but at least an email exchange (i.e. One email that says the terms and a return email that says "I accept") that sets out the material terms: price (or rate per hour), amount of deposit, date of delivery, terms for late payment.
4. TALK MONEY EARLY--the later the money talk is had, the worse it goes. Having the talk early is great because you say, "It's going to cost X, and I need Y to get started." And they will either say, "Sure, here's some money," or "Oh, I can't afford that." And both are good, because if they can't pay, you don't have to do the work.
Both parties have some blame here.
Thank you for posting this... as i said before Im very "green" to this industry. In the beginning when we spoke things were working out very amicably. I was at fault for not getting money up front. Mostly it was my naivety and having to much faith in the fact he seemed like a decent person. i am well aware that I have things to learn but I think also it need to be pointed out that in researching this guy in an effort to try and contact him i have found that I am not the only person who has had an incident with him.
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On June 04 2012 08:24 fabiano wrote:
Does not gives you the right to go around spreading his personal information.
It could even be considered crime of defamation...
Btw, how much one of those are worth? The stream overlays I mean.
I usually charge clients $50 for each overlay (i.e. UI skin overlay & out of game overlays) unless they client has been sent to me from a mutual party such as one of my teams players. Then I charge $35 for each. It also varies in price depending on additional items added to the overlays such as .gif sponsor ads, flash animations and so on
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That sucks. Saxon is a really cool guy and good graphics designer. 
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Also watch out for Camilla Marshall.
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I'm kind of surprised at how upset you are. It was pretty clear to me almost immediately that this guy was flakey and you yourself are clearly inexperienced about taking money for this type of work (not necessarily inexperienced in the work itself, just merely the financial aspect). As someone said, giving an estimate at the beginning/possibly requiring payment first (although if you want to get payment first, I recommend getting a portfolio/website together if you don't have one already as this makes it more clear that you are not a kid who just torrented PS and looking to sell cheaply made overlays) and generally making it clear the money is not too negotiable. The more clear it is that you full intend on collecting money, the easier it will be to weed out flakey individuals.
I really don't think this guy was trying to rip you off, I think at the beginning he was definitely interested, but over time he thought about it more and wasn't sure if he needed/wanted it in the end.
But yea, main thing I'd suggest is get used to this unless you build a website/portfolio so you will appear more professional/serious than a passing interest in GFX. Also I recommend a set price for different things whether it's a set of overlays for ingame/out of game or a website template or whatever you intend to sell. Generally after you make a few they're pretty easy to make and won't take long.
On June 04 2012 09:49 LGSaxon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:24 fabiano wrote:
Does not gives you the right to go around spreading his personal information.
It could even be considered crime of defamation...
Btw, how much one of those are worth? The stream overlays I mean. I usually charge clients $50 for each overlay (i.e. UI skin overlay & out of game overlays) unless they client has been sent to me from a mutual party such as one of my teams players. Then I charge $35 for each. It also varies in price depending on additional items added to the overlays such as .gif sponsor ads, flash animations and so on
edit: too bad mannered for me to post I suppose.
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as someone who does freelance work (and has done it for a living) i can tell you you will have to deal with things like this; experience will help you sniff it out (in your description i saw classic warning signs that an experienced freelancer would have picked up on and abandoned the project).
if you can send me your portfolio, i might have some work for you (non e-sports related graphic design).
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On June 04 2012 11:36 Sprungjeezy wrote:I'm kind of surprised at how upset you are. It was pretty clear to me almost immediately that this guy was flakey and you yourself are clearly inexperienced about taking money for this type of work (not necessarily inexperienced in the work itself, just merely the financial aspect). As someone said, giving an estimate at the beginning/possibly requiring payment first (although if you want to get payment first, I recommend getting a portfolio/website together if you don't have one already as this makes it more clear that you are not a kid who just torrented PS and looking to sell cheaply made overlays) and generally making it clear the money is not too negotiable. The more clear it is that you full intend on collecting money, the easier it will be to weed out flakey individuals. I really don't think this guy was trying to rip you off, I think at the beginning he was definitely interested, but over time he thought about it more and wasn't sure if he needed/wanted it in the end. But yea, main thing I'd suggest is get used to this unless you build a website/portfolio so you will appear more professional/serious than a passing interest in GFX. Also I recommend a set price for different things whether it's a set of overlays for ingame/out of game or a website template or whatever you intend to sell. Generally after you make a few they're pretty easy to make and won't take long. Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 09:49 LGSaxon wrote:On June 04 2012 08:24 fabiano wrote:
Does not gives you the right to go around spreading his personal information.
It could even be considered crime of defamation...
Btw, how much one of those are worth? The stream overlays I mean. I usually charge clients $50 for each overlay (i.e. UI skin overlay & out of game overlays) unless they client has been sent to me from a mutual party such as one of my teams players. Then I charge $35 for each. It also varies in price depending on additional items added to the overlays such as .gif sponsor ads, flash animations and so on edit: too bad mannered for me to post I suppose.
I do have an online portfolio and a stream but the TL guardains censored it all calling it self advertising. They also removed an important img showing a PM chat I had with this guy where I informed him my work was legally copywritten. I'm not a kid with a torrented version of adobe. Lastly I wanna say I agree with you my main problem is that im inexperienced in the financial area of this but let me state I'm not "in tears" over this or anything. I really made this post so others would be warned about this individual.
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I coach sc2 and used to do it fulltime so have some experience with people like this! (I used to get 35+ hours a week of paid sc2 coaching.)
I also started out green and charging next to nothing and so occasionally had to put up with some people like this but luckily mostly ballers want coaching so it wasn't something TOO Regular. Basiucally you learn to do exactly what Mr. Black posted above and be completely upfront with money estimates, plan of what you will deliver roughly etc. and even if you end up spending more time you give the original quoted amount and get better at quoting for future.
As you progress with these clearly laid-out foundations you come to easily recognise the dodgy people just by the manner they communicate. As soon as someone tries to negotiate I am completely firm with them that they can only get the set deals I offer and anything else is a no-go. That I give a damn good service for low cost and if they try to undermine me as "just someone that does X" I end the communication because they are clearly trying to manipulate me.
Anyone that breaks contact I will send them an email reminder (Everything should be done through email not skype, msn or facebook.) once or twice if I'm desperate for work but otherwise not think about it and assume the deal is done. Essentially if they aren't replying or contacting you they've left your shop and the opportunity is gone. If you go chasing after them they might abuse the power they realise they have.
Be strong knowing you offer a commited service and are attentative to the clients needs all for a fraction of the usual price and as such if someone disrespects you, or treats you with a lack of respect you have every right to tell them to gtfo out of your store. It's an imaginary internet store but think of it that way nonetheless 
Gl with your graphics business mate!
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On June 04 2012 13:01 PiGStarcraft wrote:I coach sc2 and used to do it fulltime so have some experience with people like this! (I used to get 35+ hours a week of paid sc2 coaching.) I also started out green and charging next to nothing and so occasionally had to put up with some people like this but luckily mostly ballers want coaching so it wasn't something TOO Regular. Basiucally you learn to do exactly what Mr. Black posted above and be completely upfront with money estimates, plan of what you will deliver roughly etc. and even if you end up spending more time you give the original quoted amount and get better at quoting for future. As you progress with these clearly laid-out foundations you come to easily recognise the dodgy people just by the manner they communicate. As soon as someone tries to negotiate I am completely firm with them that they can only get the set deals I offer and anything else is a no-go. That I give a damn good service for low cost and if they try to undermine me as "just someone that does X" I end the communication because they are clearly trying to manipulate me. Anyone that breaks contact I will send them an email reminder (Everything should be done through email not skype, msn or facebook.) once or twice if I'm desperate for work but otherwise not think about it and assume the deal is done. Essentially if they aren't replying or contacting you they've left your shop and the opportunity is gone. If you go chasing after them they might abuse the power they realise they have. Be strong knowing you offer a commited service and are attentative to the clients needs all for a fraction of the usual price and as such if someone disrespects you, or treats you with a lack of respect you have every right to tell them to gtfo out of your store. It's an imaginary internet store but think of it that way nonetheless Gl with your graphics business mate!
Thanks for your support!
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I do freelance work all the time, it sucks to hear that that happened to you man.
Hopefully everyone learns something from this 
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Having done my fair share of photoshop and Cinema 4D work, I know that if you've got some talent and experience you can do a pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours. It's not like doing full screen artwork, the actual area you're covering is pretty small and I highly doubt you did any custom renders, you probably just cut out a bunch of crap from Blizz artwork and stuck it in there.
Yeah it sucks that you got stiffed half the money, but realistically I bet you still got paid a pretty fair sum for the amount of work this took. Second, it's partly your fault for not giving the guy a FULL estimate ahead of time. I'm guessing whatever you charged him was pretty astronomical for doing an overlay and he wasn't prepared to pay that much.
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On June 04 2012 23:58 TheToast wrote:
Having done my fair share of photoshop and Cinema 4D work, I know that if you've got some talent and experience you can do a pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours. It's not like doing full screen artwork, the actual area you're covering is pretty small and I highly doubt you did any custom renders, you probably just cut out a bunch of crap from Blizz artwork and stuck it in there.
Yeah it sucks that you got stiffed half the money, but realistically I bet you still got paid a pretty fair sum for the amount of work this took. Second, it's partly your fault for not giving the guy a FULL estimate ahead of time. I'm guessing whatever you charged him was pretty astronomical for doing an overlay and he wasn't prepared to pay that much.
First of all he was quite aware to my rates prior to contacting me. Its one of the reasons he did because I was in his "price range" If you read any of my responses you can see that TL removed a big important img with all of this information. They also removed to link to my portfolio so for you to assume that I just copy pasted a bunch of images together to make this design when all you can see is almost thumbnail scaled images you see in the emails is a bit foolish of you. Other than a single clip from a cinematic everything else was custom design. The font was even custom made (granted not my best font work but it was what the client wanted). Could I have done as you said "pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours" sure. Would it look like every single overlay that's already out there...? More than likely. In fact this particular design ended up even more generic that I usually like to go because that's what the client asked for. My price was not "astronomical" for the work I put into it and for tolerating his disrespectful manner.
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On June 04 2012 19:58 John Madden wrote:I do freelance work all the time, it sucks to hear that that happened to you man. Hopefully everyone learns something from this
Thanks! I know I've learned a few things already, and I hope others do as well. That was one of my main reasons for posting this.
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On June 05 2012 02:05 LGSaxon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 23:58 TheToast wrote:
Having done my fair share of photoshop and Cinema 4D work, I know that if you've got some talent and experience you can do a pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours. It's not like doing full screen artwork, the actual area you're covering is pretty small and I highly doubt you did any custom renders, you probably just cut out a bunch of crap from Blizz artwork and stuck it in there.
Yeah it sucks that you got stiffed half the money, but realistically I bet you still got paid a pretty fair sum for the amount of work this took. Second, it's partly your fault for not giving the guy a FULL estimate ahead of time. I'm guessing whatever you charged him was pretty astronomical for doing an overlay and he wasn't prepared to pay that much. First of all he was quite aware to my rates prior to contacting me. Its one of the reasons he did because I was in his "price range" If you read any of my responses you can see that TL removed a big important img with all of this information. They also removed to link to my portfolio so for you to assume that I just copy pasted a bunch of images together to make this design when all you can see is almost thumbnail scaled images you see in the emails is a bit foolish of you. Other than a single clip from a cinematic everything else was custom design. The font was even custom made (granted not my best font work but it was what the client wanted). Could I have done as you said "pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours" sure. Would it look like every single overlay that's already out there...? More than likely. In fact this particular design ended up even more generic that I usually like to go because that's what the client asked for. My price was not "astronomical" for the work I put into it and for tolerating his disrespectful manner.
Did you actually give him a real price quote or did you just send him an email that said "somewhere around X to Y dollars"? There's a big difference.
Also, can you rehost the overlay you did? Just the image without personal information. Watermark it if you need to, but I think it would help if you could actually prove that you did satisfactory work. All too often with these types of threads the 'accused party' comes back and tells their side of the story which is entirely different. Making accusations like this is pretty serious and needs backing up.
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isnt this what retainers are for?
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On June 05 2012 03:09 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 02:05 LGSaxon wrote:On June 04 2012 23:58 TheToast wrote:
Having done my fair share of photoshop and Cinema 4D work, I know that if you've got some talent and experience you can do a pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours. It's not like doing full screen artwork, the actual area you're covering is pretty small and I highly doubt you did any custom renders, you probably just cut out a bunch of crap from Blizz artwork and stuck it in there.
Yeah it sucks that you got stiffed half the money, but realistically I bet you still got paid a pretty fair sum for the amount of work this took. Second, it's partly your fault for not giving the guy a FULL estimate ahead of time. I'm guessing whatever you charged him was pretty astronomical for doing an overlay and he wasn't prepared to pay that much. First of all he was quite aware to my rates prior to contacting me. Its one of the reasons he did because I was in his "price range" If you read any of my responses you can see that TL removed a big important img with all of this information. They also removed to link to my portfolio so for you to assume that I just copy pasted a bunch of images together to make this design when all you can see is almost thumbnail scaled images you see in the emails is a bit foolish of you. Other than a single clip from a cinematic everything else was custom design. The font was even custom made (granted not my best font work but it was what the client wanted). Could I have done as you said "pretty great looking overlay in under a few hours" sure. Would it look like every single overlay that's already out there...? More than likely. In fact this particular design ended up even more generic that I usually like to go because that's what the client asked for. My price was not "astronomical" for the work I put into it and for tolerating his disrespectful manner. Did you actually give him a real price quote or did you just send him an email that said "somewhere around X to Y dollars"? There's a big difference. Also, can you rehost the overlay you did? Just the image without personal information. Watermark it if you need to, but I think it would help if you could actually prove that you did satisfactory work. All too often with these types of threads the 'accused party' comes back and tells their side of the story which is entirely different. Making accusations like this is pretty serious and needs backing up.
I will be glad to rehost the overlay image right after I make sure TL will not auto remove it
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This post makes you look really unprofessional and will probably hurt you more than him. I wouldn't want to do business with you if you publicly air out your frustrations like a facebook gossip.
He is in my opinion the definition of a “swindler” and lacks ethical and moral fiber. He is not to be trusted in business any transactions. In my opinion his actions are equal to maphackers and stream snipers."
Should probably let your head cool down before publicly drawing attention to yourself and smearing a former client (regardless of their flakiness and irresponsibility).
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This… this doesn't reflect very well on you. If any possible clients found this thread, I don't think that they would be confident in making a business agreement with you. My suggestion is to try take this as a learning experience as best you can, keep your head held high, and carry on with your life. Watch out for this kind of stuff next time, and make sure that you always try your best.
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This guy was the epitomy of a scumbag in many other games, sucks that you didn't know about this beforehand
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For bigger jobs it's always a must to get your clients to put down a third to half of the total cost to initiate the project (Getting the rest upon job completion). If you use paypal you can also define these terms in the little box. You can state specifically whether they have from 0-30 days to pay upon receipt of your invoice, payment policies, other terms. Another rookie mistake is revisions.... A client can abuse the shit out of you if you don't clearly define the number of revisions he's allowed to make. Also you have to distinguish a "major revision" from say a minor revision (Something that takes less than 15 minutes, anything over and you'd charge your normal flat rate).
I suggest you start looking into "bullet proof" design contracts. Contracts are made for a reason, they're to protect your own interests. Each clause will give you an idea on what shit might go awry specifically. i.e. A copyright clause shows you that ownership of the work and how it's distributed and to whom is a problem that's occurred in the past. Take it as a learning experience. Learn how to qualify your clients as well: i.e. Can they afford you? Can you run some sort of background check? Do they make the final say in deciding things? etc.
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EPT
