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I've been enjoying Diablo 3, but rather than review it normally, I'd rather launch into a series of straw man arguments. So, without further ado, I present to you: A Polemical Diablo 3 Review. Within, I will list a series of common complaints with the game and then explain why the people who have those complaints are stupid.
It was overhyped!
Uh, how? I guess I could see how you might feel overexposed to Diablo 3 if you, I don't know, went to video game related websites and clicked on Diablo 3 related material. Then, you might have even gotten excited about the game. You might have even wanted to buy it and try it out. Sounds like they're doing their fucking job, eh? When you get excited about something you give websites pageviews and developers money. Welcome to advertising.
Me, I didn't read anything about the game, I didn't watch anybody stream it, and I didn't get into the beta. My only exposure to it was other people talking about it and some commercials on Twitch.tv. Somehow, I didn't feel overhyped. I believe I felt an adequate amount of hype, that is excitement over a new game and the possibilities within.
In fact, I don't even know what "overhyped" is supposed to mean. Blizzard's goal is sell their game, and judging by the sales, I'd say they did a pretty good job. Do you think Coca-Cola is overhyped, too? They spend more money advertising their stupid soda than entire third-world countries make in a year, but I don't see people complaining about that. I think most reasonable people realize that it's their job to advertise their crap. So why do I keep seeing the word "overhyped," in relation to this game? I just don't understand it.
Even if you could somehow quantify "hype" and make a judgement about what was "overhype," what difference does it make? Let's say you could mathematically prove that Coke spent 2 billion more on advertising than they "needed" to, how does that effect the product? It's still the same shitty sugar water whether or not they had the adverts. Does anybody really drink a can of Coke and think to themselves "Man, that polar bear bastard really raised my expectations to unfulfillable heights"?
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
Edit: The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to.
It's too grindy! All you do is click on things!
Well, no shit, it's a hack and slash game. If you don't like spending a quiet evening in your basement slaying thousands of demons for the minute possibility that one of them may drop something useful, then why the fuck did you buy it in the first place? What were you expecting? A poorly-written BioWare snorefest where you listen to dialogue more often than you fight monsters? If so, I suggest you check out SWTOR, it might just suit your terrible tastes in video games.
It's too much like WoW!
How, precisely, is it like WoW? Because it's made by Blizzard? Because strength, dexterity, and intellect increase your damage? Because the UI has damage indicators? Because it has crafting? These days, every new RPG has a bunch of retards calling it a "WoW clone." What the fuck does that even mean? WoW is the most generic game on the planet. Why do you think it's so popular? It has absorbed elements from every single RPG in the past 20 years and amalgamated it into one behemoth monstrosity of a game—of course you could draw comparisons between WoW and other games! WoW has fuck all to do with Diablo, though. In Diablo, people are out slaying hordes of demons, while in WoW everyone is sitting in Orgrimmar waiting for a queue to pop or a raid to form. I'd say the difference is significant.
Also, calling something a "WoW-clone" implies that WoW is something shitty and not worth emulating, which is entirely subjective.
It's too much like Diablo 2!
I cannot believe I saw someone type this in a twitch chat. Why is there not an option to permanently close them? Every time I get the idea "Hm, I wonder what's going on in chat," it is immediately followed by me closing the chat and reaching for my aspirin bottle. I wasn't even watching a D3 stream!
It's not enough like Diablo 2!
If people have complained both ways, then maybe Blizzard actually did a nice job making the game. It has the same Diablo feel without being the same game. After all, if you wanted to play Diablo 2, the servers are still up. Or you could play MedianXL, for which there are also servers.
Personally, D3 feels like it has a faster pace than D2, excluding the pace of sorcs or characters with enigmas. Other than the pacing, It's pretty much like D2, you run around and kill shit. The zones are somewhat more linear, especially in act 1, but there is still a great deal of side areas and windy paths to explore. I think the slight increase in linearity was a response to most people hating act 3 in Diablo 2. Even though it's my favorite act, I still fucking get lost in there sometimes.
The game is too easy!
Normal mode is pretty easy, I'll grant you that. However, people who only play softcore will only have to go through it once on each character, because characters can respecialize. People who play hardcore will have to do it many times, but I'd say having an easy normal mode is an improvement from Diablo 2's normal mode where the difficulty goes from extremely easy to "oh shit Duriel." An easier normal mode allows a HC character to safely gather some gear before going to NM, where shit does start to get real.
In general, the bosses are easier than they were in Diablo 2, which I think is an improvement in pacing. It was pretty stupid to try to kill some of the bosses if you were doing an untwinked run through D2. Attack rating in particular made the bosses very difficult for melee characters based not on player skill, but on RNG. Didn’t find an angelic ring and amulet for the 2piece bonus or a good attack rating item? Too bad fucker, you only have a 30% chance to hit Mephisto. Good luck.
Along with AR, I (believe) monster immunities are gone. While this does make the game easier, I think it also makes it more enjoyable. The first Diablo 2 character I ever got to hell with was a fire sorc and I can't tell you how fucking disappointed I was when I realized I couldn't even do the den of evil because I couldn't kill the fallen. Every diablo 2 character (with the exception of hammerdins) has to design themselves around immunities instead of which skill they like using the most. Now you can just play how you want.
The resource systems are stupid!
Actually, Diablo 2's resource system was the stupid one. Seriously, try leveling a barb without a manald heal. That shit sucks hard. Hell, try making a sorc. You'll find yourself picking up a spear and stabbing things until around act 3 because you only have enough mana for a few spells. That's not exactly thrilling.
Nearly everyone used act 2 mercs because they could wield insight polearms (as well as infinity if you had lots of cash for an eth 4os cv to put it in). Finding that first sol rune after a ladder reset was a joyous occasion, because it meant you could finally cast spells without chugging mana pots every 5 seconds. You would still drain your mana pool quickly without good gear, but it would recharge nicely. This is exactly how the resource systems in Diablo 3 feel like. You have a huge amount of regeneration, but a small pool from which to draw from. Running around using Blizzard and Meteor on my wizard felt just like playing a poorly geared sorc with an insight merc.
I haven't played a barbarian yet, so maybe the fury system sucks, I don't know.
The real money auction house is bad!
Nobody who claims this has ever actually played Diablo 2. If they had, they would know that there were(are) a myriad of sites that sell items for real money. The difference now is, you know that the person you're buying from isn't a Chinese scammer, because you buy the item directly. I'm sure people will still try to bot/dupe and sell the results on shady websites, so people who want to use those services still can. I've heard Blizzard's cut from the RMAH is pretty steep, but when you take a step back and realize that you're fucking selling pixels in a video game, it should lessen the sting.
Also, there was always forum gold which you could just legally purchase and then exchange for anything you could ever want.
Achievements are stupid!
So don't do them.
It makes dumb messages when I kill a bunch of monsters!
The Diablo series is one step up in complexity from a side scrolling beat 'em up game. If Dungeon & Fighter tells me how big my combos are, why shouldn't Diablo 3 tell me how many monsters I killed at once? Plus, are you telling me you never wondered how many cows were in that pile of cows you killed? Not even once? An option to turn off the messages would be nice, but I think people take the game far too seriously. They have some idiotic grimdark vision of what the other Diablo games were like when in reality they were very silly games.
The graphics are bad!
You are playing a Blizzard game. Graphics have never been their emphasis. Further, who gives a shit? I can't help but feel like people who point out that "the textures suck" are the same people who go see a movie and say "that looks fake." I would never even notice the texture quality if someone hadn't mentioned it. Suspend your disbelief and shut up.
But the tone of the visuals suck!
When people complain about the tone or setting of a game it makes me cringe. Go back to your 1000 level film studies class and leave the rest of us alone. Unless the entire purpose of the game is meant to creep you out, like a survival horror game, then it's really irrelevant. Diablo's purpose is to give you a platform to kill monsters, not make you piss yourself.
Diablo was never dark and scary. Never. Sure, the games had a restrictive sight radius, but only because it's difficult to express changes in lighting in a game made entirely of sprites. You couldn't make one dungeon dark and one light without creating an entirely new set of light and dark sprites. Remember, the game already took up 3 CDs in an era where hard drive space actually mattered.
Diablo 3 has replaced sight radius with enemies that pop out of the ground or are summoned out of an object. So the feel of being surprised by monsters, which rarely happened in D2 anyway, still exists. If anything, I think some of the environments are a little too dark. I had to up the gamma some because my eyes are shitty and it strained them to play for a long period in dark areas.
I hate the items! Rares are as good as uniques and set items!
Uh, good? Do you know how fucking boring the game was when everyone had the same items? Once you got "the items," you were done. You could build every single caster with hoto/enigmia/spirit shield/shaco/war travs/mara's/2xsoj. And, because of a combination of duping and forum gold, they were incredibly easy to obtain, and thus incredibly boring. On the other hand, the most exciting parts of Diablo 2 was hunting for a godly bow skills dual leech gloves, or a pcomb with a good affix. Those were the items that were worth the most money, and they weren't set items or rune words. By not making Uniques the be-all and end-all, it means you're never "done" with items, which, for a game like Diablo, is a good thing. I remember the first time that I was "done." I quit the game until the next ladder reset. The moments of "oh boy, my pshaco has a ber in it now," or "hey, my hoto rolled a 40" was not the peak of my enjoyment of the game, despite it being the peak of my character's power.
There's no character customization, no attributes, no skill points!
None of those things added customization to Diablo 2. Sure, you got to feel smart by putting points into shit, but if you had any inkling of clearing hell difficulty, there were only a few routes you could take.
Yes, there were attributes, but anybody who had a clue how to play dumped every point in vitality because that was simply the best option. It didn't matter how much strength you had if you died to the first fire enchanted quill rat you found. If you were poor and didn't have a torch/anni, you still put just enough points into strength and dexterity to wear your gear, and then dumped the rest into vitality. The only exceptions to this rule were strafe zons who maxed dexterity and used dual leech to stay alive or the occasional max energy sorc who used energy shield, but that was a troll build for duels. Attributes didn't add any depth to the game, they just made you click the +vit button 5 times each time you dinged.
As for skill points, they weren't really dynamic either. Because of synergies, the only reasonable method for Hell difficulty was to pick 1-2 skills and max the synergies for them. If I wanted to build a trap sin, I had to put 20 points into death sentry, lightning sentry, fire blast, and charged bolt sentry, with 1 point into some utility skills like fade or mind blast. I couldn't decide to go half martial arts and half traps, because if I did, I wouldn't have enough damage to actually kill anything. If I have to do something or my character fucking blows, then it isn't really a choice, is it? That's like saying eating food is a choice, because you could always just "choose" to starve yourself.
Diablo 3 gets rid of the illusion of choice and lets you exercise actual choice by allowing you to pick some skills you find to be your favorite or the most effective. By further allowing you to retrain your skills at any time, it eliminates the "noob trap" element that Diablo 2 had, where a character that appears to work in norm and NM becomes useless in Hell. How many sad saps did you see making windy druids only for them to realize that they suck absolute shit in Hell? If Diablo 2 had the same system Diablo 3 does, those poor druids could have run around with hurricane killing small packs of crappy monsters and then when they found a boss or a tough unique group, they could switch to werewolf form with some life leech to tank them down. Instead, the druid player was just left with a dogshit character and the person ended up just rerolling a meteorb sorc or a hammerdin like 90% of everyone else. If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization.
Some complaints I agree with:
4 players max and no LAN - This doesn't affect me, but I could see where it could affect groups of friends containing 5 people. Plus no offline mode sucks, even though I only ever played offline D2 when my internet was down.
Launch day woes - I hail from the WoW server known affectionately in its early days as "Illidown" for its frequent crashes, lag, and downtime. Maybe because of that I have low standards, but a Blizzard game working perfectly on launch day, or ever, is just not something I expect. Still, I was disappointed with the first couple of days and annoyed that I couldn't play.
The skill page UI is bad - Yep. With the elusive "elective mode" box checked, it works perfectly fine, but it's a shitty layout. One thing they should have copied from WoW was the spellbook, where you can just tab through and see a list of all your spells.
10 item limit on the auction house - This hampers my plan of selling every rare I find for cheap and nickel and diming my way to riches
Witch Doctors are retarded - I just can't get into this character, and I never see anybody else playing one, either. I miss skelemancers, they made for a slow, methodical way to power your way through the game. Every other game sees fit to put timers on summons for some reason.
Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell.
There's no gem - What am I supposed to click while waiting for my friend to log in? (If there is a new gem, I must be informed posthaste, it is imperative to my gameplay experience.)
So, for the zero people out there who wanted to hear my thoughts on Diablo 3, there they are.
If you're wondering, I'm the kind of crazy person who has constant arguments with himself running around in his head (remember the Jerk Store episode of Seinfeld?), and by writing them down and posting them somewhere, I can finally silence the voices in my head. So, my last 2 posts have just been rants. I will try to come up with something more fun later, but for now I got fuckin' demons to slay. The game ain't perfect, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
By the way, I saw this blue post and it made me incredibly happy to see a response like that from a Blizzard employee.
 
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hahaha nice, by the title I assumed that your polemic would be against Diablo 3, but it's really a polemic against polemics against Diablo 3 :D
Nice review, I didn't recognize your name under featured blogs, but this was fun to read and I agree with you on a multitude of these points, nice blog 
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My favorite Diablo review on this website so far. Its like you read my crazy person mind.
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Great review, pretty much sums up everything iv'e been thinking! Also, the "Diablo had tits" thing made me laugh. I didnt get it either + Show Spoiler +Even if he came out of Leah, he shouldn't have had tits and high heels. It was just silly
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Way to address all the complaints. Really good read. On witch doctors, I thought they were pretty fun, but I never got very far with them,
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My one beef with this is that Witch Doctors are awesome!
awesome rebukes to some of the silly arguments I've been seeing.
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Canada13389 Posts
I never played diablo before.
I never planned on buying Diablo 3.
But since so many of my friends bought it I got it to play a bit with them.
Its fun, and I'm enjoying myself. Was never big on dungeon crawlers and item collecting but damnit if Diablo just isn't enjoyable.
I think thats all it needs to boil down to. Enjoying Diablo? Good. Not enjoying ok, shut up and let me enjoy it.
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Well, that's like, your opinion, man.
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Very nice read, I agree completely with everything. Almost like you put in words what I was thinking.
Diablo with tits is creepy.
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Diablo has tits? Now I gotta buy the game
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Story spoilers I guess
+ Show Spoiler +As far as the story goes I will never forgive blizzard for killing of Cain in such a pussy way.He didn't even get a epic death or a cinematic(well I guess that little cut scene when tyrael and leah are at his grave but meh) or anything,he just died like a bitch.Probably the most iconic character in the diablo universe aside from diablo and tyrael maybe to get such a pitiful death is just disgusting.
I agree on normal being too easy.In d2 normal you could easily die to duriel the first time you fell down into his hole and it was like "o shit this bitch hits hard."I never came close to dying on a normal boss,hell,trash packs were easier to die on.
The combat is pretty good tho I have to give that to blizzard.Feels beefy and much much better than in previous games.
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aren't tits usually a plus? unless there are too many of them... like, say 50 tits
now that I think about it, a demon whose defining feature is having 50 tits wouldn't really be pleasant to face
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There is not one reasonable argument to be found here O.o
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People should care less about criticism of the game, and just enjoy it if they like it.
Personally I would be perfectly fine with half of the players quitting the game. More stable servers for me!
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Actually there are succubus monsters with tits when you're doing the quest where you have to destroy the sin hearts.
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Your complaints you agree with is just as stupid (or valid) as the ones you didn't agree with.
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Where can I see said tits? I've googled the box but I can't find it. :p That being said, Diablo is one of those games that gets boring real quick. Atleast for me. I can imagine people pouring hours and hours into it.
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5* !
There is not one reasonable argument to be found here O.o
Please google the word "Polemical"
All in all D3 is kind of the same as SC2 to SC:BW. 2% Hate it because it´s not the old one 3% love it because it´s from Blizzard and 95% just play as long as they have fun.
Yea the story is not really epic or meaningful but it´s like go into Transformers or The Avengers and say "this doesn´t make any sense".
And yea the voodoo guy is not as cool as the necro but thats a general problem in all "slay as much bad guys as possible with a sword and magic - games" that the "created" npc´s are kind of useless in the later stages.
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I agree with almost everything you said, except maybe: "The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story?" I actually like the stories Blizzard comes up with, especially how Diablo transfered into the hero that had slain him, turning into the wanderer in Diablo 2 and the whole story, and I think that many people enjoy the storytelling.
"the difficulty goes from extremely easy to "oh shit Duriel." wow that is so true haha
Diablo has tits=epic 5*
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"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do.
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Great post, I agree with most of it, though I personally think quite a lot can be said for the balancing of the difficulty in higher levels of solo... Rare mobs are not just harder than bosses depending on their properties, they can be downright impossible to beat. As a wizard, I can at least cheese my way through with force armor and constant kiting, but I feel really bad for barbarians etc who have no choice but to corpse run or spend ridiculous time farming for items which might not even help.
I feel blizzard should add some tuning so that when you play solo, rare mobs can't get properties which completely counters your class, if you have good gear, you should do fine, you shouldn't have to kite away monsters to SKIP them because they are way harder than the rest of the game.
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TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
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On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do.
I think that's a good point. I don't really play D3 for the story, but for Gheed to just dismiss the argument just because that's not how he approaches the game isn't really a way to debate or counter someone's complaint.
I agree with Gheed on the Elective, 4 player max, and Diablo tits problems. And it's indeed silly for people to say the game is too easy, especially when no one will be beating hardcore mode anytime soon.
Question, Gheed: What made you name yourself after the biggest douchebag in Diablo 2? Or was there a different reason for choosing the name that you did?
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On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG.
[...]
I think this is a misconception. Diablo is not an RPG. It has never been. It as a Hack & Slay.
1. The mere fact that it takes place in a fantasy environment around a clash between heaven & hell does not make it an RPG.
2. The mere fact that numbers make up your character stats does not make it an RPG.
3. NPCs do not make it an RPG.
4. Continue as you would like.
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On May 21 2012 20:29 IBringUFire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG.
[...]
I think this is a misconception. Diablo is not an RPG. It has never been. It as a Hack & Slay. 1. The mere fact that it takes place in a fantasy environment around a clash between heaven & hell does not make it an RPG. 2. The mere fact that numbers make up your character stats does not make it an RPG. 3. NPCs do not make it an RPG. 4. Continue as you would like.
Diablo 3 IS an RPG. All of things you mention are exactly what constitutes this genre of game. You take the role of a character and go through the game universe playing as that individual and gaining experience and items along the way. Of course it is a hack and slash game but that does not make it mutually exclusive to also be an RPG. Take S.T.A.L.K.E.R for example, that's an RPG as well, just FPS-RPG.
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This doesnt even come off as a review, it just seems like the guy is bashing a lot of other peoples opinions, all im getting from this is his biased opinion towards a video game.
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On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
Congrats, probably a common opinion if you expect an MMO when you get a hack n slash.
"Halo is just boring, it's just like Rayman origins, but instead of seeing it in 2D, you see it in some form of first person view, which is just weird".
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I am making an hardcore run with an assassin on D2 and I concur to the opinion that D2 was incredibly retarded in character design.
On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Lack of skill ? It's way more dynamic than D2 where you have a limited amount of usable skills. As the possibilities grow, the skill range grows the same.
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On May 21 2012 20:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Question, Gheed: What made you name yourself after the biggest douchebag in Diablo 2? Or was there a different reason for choosing the name that you did?
Maybe they share a passion? 
But seriously, great blog post. This is pretty much how i feel as well.
In addition, I really dislike that you can't switch acts as easily as in D2 and if I want to go back to retry a previous quest it will reset my progress (Is there any way around it?)
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On May 21 2012 21:17 Kreig wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Question, Gheed: What made you name yourself after the biggest douchebag in Diablo 2? Or was there a different reason for choosing the name that you did? Maybe they share a passion? But seriously, great blog post. This is pretty much how i feel as well. In addition, I really dislike that you can't switch acts as easily as in D2 and if I want to go back to retry a previous quest it will reset my progress (Is there any way around it?)
It resets your progress just as much as it did in D2... Just do the previous quest, quit, go to change quest, change to the one you were on and boom, you're right back. Should be noted that some quest points are quite long, so you're guaranteed to lose a bit of progress sometimes.
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Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell.
This was my first thought aswell upon encountering Diablo. What the fuck was Blizzard thinking?
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On May 21 2012 21:28 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 21:17 Kreig wrote:On May 21 2012 20:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Question, Gheed: What made you name yourself after the biggest douchebag in Diablo 2? Or was there a different reason for choosing the name that you did? Maybe they share a passion? But seriously, great blog post. This is pretty much how i feel as well. In addition, I really dislike that you can't switch acts as easily as in D2 and if I want to go back to retry a previous quest it will reset my progress (Is there any way around it?) It resets your progress just as much as it did in D2... Just do the previous quest, quit, go to change quest, change to the one you were on and boom, you're right back. Should be noted that some quest points are quite long, so you're guaranteed to lose a bit of progress sometimes.
Oooh, ok thanks.
I did not dare to actually go back in quests to see what would happen.
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I wouldn't play D3 if Diablo didn't have tits. Hopefully in expo we get more tit-bosses.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
Go Guild Wars 2 you'll love it.
Oh wait GW2 has 5) all over it. + Show Spoiler +but 5) makes no sense, skill based gameplay? I think you're not talking about being good but being focused around one skill/spell? Well, this sucks, I have fun playing D3 because each time I tinker with a different DH build, and I think after 50 hours I'm getting to the point where I finally have one build for each kind of play, be it Solo or PvM with my buddies
My complaint with D3 specifically is - I can't wait longer for some pvp action.
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On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
i'm 99% sure you've never played d2 for any significant amount of time lol
this is a game where you
1. hit monsters
2. level up and get better gear
3. hit stronger monsters harder
it's not supposed to be a competitive game or an rpg
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Yea, the game is fun. And after today's run in Act II I finally know what this gameplay reminds me of.
Cabal.
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I don't know guys, I liked the story, I love linear games, I actually like what they've done with the skill UI (other than it's hard to change during a boss fight if you realize your skills are bad against him). It's also more demanding in terms of micro skill and strategy. The artisan thing is a really nice thing too IMO. Questing seems natural in this game, it's never awkward like going to town just to be asked to kill 5 fallen overlords or something, and in fact you don't have to go to town for quests much often. You mostly need to go to town when you're full of items, and that makes Diablo 3 more fluid. Rushing isn't that efficient anymore, you gotta go through quests to level. Graphics are a bit out of date, but they're still good. Cinematics are awesome as always.
The game is different than Diablo 2, but I feel it's an upgrade here.
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On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do.
Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2.
The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
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On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story".
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On May 21 2012 19:29 Faraday wrote:
I agree with almost everything you said, except maybe: "The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story?" I actually like the stories Blizzard comes up with, especially how Diablo transfered into the hero that had slain him, turning into the wanderer in Diablo 2 and the whole story, and I think that many people enjoy the storytelling.
"the difficulty goes from extremely easy to "oh shit Duriel." wow that is so true haha
Diablo has tits=epic 5*
I generally like blizzard's stories, but I can't get around admitting that D3's story is just.... one-dimensional. Which is not necessarily a bad thing as it's not in the focus of the game.
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(I've been playing Diablo 1+ Hellfire and Diablo 2 from their release to this day, no joke, i've got save files about 7 years old lol.)
What I like about Diablo 3:
Awesome death animations.
Nice graphics.
Interactivity.
Music is excellent
Cutscenes are what is expected.
What I don't like:
Random elite mobs are harder than Act bosses. This makes no sense.
Skill system if very "iffy". Even now, 1 week after release, people have already excluded skills that are just bad (or to put it another way, you would have a far easier time using another skill). Essentially, there are "trash skills" that pretty much all point towards a common build. The vast majority of Barbarians using "cleave" as primary skill for example.
So from the process of elimination you end up with a bread-and-butter build.
Some really questionable characters. They just dont fit the Diablo universe.
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OP was priceless. I havent played diablo 2 in a while and this just made me laugh so much
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Back to the Gheed I like to read-- mercilessly reminding idiots how stupid they really are. Also it's the Gheed I agree with again hahaha!
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On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
You mean Baal in the Asylum?
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As alwyas, this was an excellent read. In addition, I agree.
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Diablo has tits? Wow, I might actually buy D3...
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United States2822 Posts
There should be a prerequisite to this thread. Go to dictionary.com and look up the word "polemical." Seriously.
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Great blog. I agree with a lot of your points and you expressed yourself very well.
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>50 which doc here, stacking buffs to more than double your DPS when fully buffed (in addition to a permanent +20% dmg passive) is fun! also, frogs falling from the sky and SPIDERS EVERYWHERE!
oh but you probably won't ever see me because i either play with my buds or solo 
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I don't understand this OP. You call it polemical, but you've simplified the arguments you're trying to oppose and then made really weak arguments yourself, which basically amount to 'what you want in a video game is stupid.' I'll give one thorough example because I'm not going to argue every point in your OP.
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
You agree that the story is stupid when saying who plays Diablo for the story. Why is it not a legitimate complaint that the story isn't good. You make reference (presumably) to Diablo II which also didn't have a very good story as a reason that it's not important to the franchise. But if we're arguing what is true to the franchise, that's unfair because Diablo I's greatest appeal was its story. In its time there were other games that had story, but none as fully voice acted as Diablo. I don't want to argue about whether or not it has aged well, but it certainly achieved a lot of things that are important to the Diablo gaming experience, which is to evelope you in its atmosphere. Music, art direction, and story play a role in that. Without that playing an RPG feels meaningless. Diablo II's success was very much in part because people were carrying through their experience Diablo I into it, and even tho it wasn't done as well it was sorta ok. The other appeals of D2 which were the item system and spell system, but way more importantly the multiplayer system which allowed you to create your own fun with 7 strangers on the internet very easily and very quickly, were vastly important and what gave the game longevity, but story is still important. It gave everything a Paradise Lost kind of feel.
It also isn't a schmup from the 80s. 'Kill the overlord queen alien thing' is ok when its just a random developer trying to give the player some context, but D3 is a triple A title with a lot of money, and a team of people got paid to write its story. When no one has the presence of mind or willingness to tell them they're doing a bad job, or they don't want to pay more for a better story, yeah it's a legitimate criticism. If they had no story at all and were clearly not trying to have one, then sure it's a moot point to say Tyrian and Super Mario Bros. didn't have much of a plot.
So what I'm saying is that you've been SCV rushing too many bronze players and gained a superiority complex, when actually your opinions are just as worthless as anyone else's. Of course their are good points to Diablo 3 which make up for the story, and a balanced review will show that, but it's dumb to say that story isn't important to game experience in 2012. Blizzard should have grown in this department in addition to all the other things they've improved, but instead they've withered.
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Would have been way better if the original developers created D3.
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The argument of 'who plays Diablo for the story' would make sense if they weren't clearly trying to have a story in the game. But they are, and it's bad, and bad work should get criticized.
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One of my friends who I play dota said that he doesn't like D3 because you only have 6 skills... I honestly think people want to hate the game XD
One of his favourite heroes is axe. And if you don't count his passive(in the same way that my friend didn't count the three passives) then he only has 3 skills. I was dumbfounded at this T.T
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So you're saying it's bland and unoriginal but people shouldn't complain because that's exactly what they should have expected. Not sure if that's an endorsement or not.
edit:
+ Show Spoiler +Since there's so much negativity on TL I feel like I need to add this. As much as I disagree with your arguments (and I usually do) I still enjoy reading your blogs. You obviously have a talent for writing.
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That quote at the end from the blue made my life. After WoL and Cataclysm, I had sort of given up on Blizzard making truly HARD games again. In fact, Diablo 3 in general gave me hope for all of the next games Blizzard is making. Besides the obvious problems that you mentioned, D3 is perfect. Even the BNet 2.0 integration is amazing.
Also, I really liked the storyline. I've logged hundreds of hours on both D1 and D2 and loved the lore. I wish it had been a little less "conclusive" at the end, but thats namely because I REALLY want an xpack. Also they leave out why its important that Tyrael became the aspect of Wisdom, but w/e.
Regardless, 5/5.
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5/5. I agree with most of the stuff you said. People will find the smallest thing to complain about. There’s no game which is “perfect” in every sense. Even if it's perfect to one person, another person will find a flaw in it. People complained about the SC2 storyline when all they did was play multiplayer. Unless there’s something really broken (server shutdown), then just accept the small flaws.
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On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example).
1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem.
2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then?
3).... what?
4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game.
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On May 22 2012 03:32 Crazyseal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example). 1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem. 2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then? 3).... what? 4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game.
If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one's forcing you to play it. If you wanted A, B and C but got A, B and D, either suck it up or find a game that fulfills your criteria. If you got D, E and F instead, it's your fault for buying a game without any prior research.
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On May 22 2012 02:27 AKomrade wrote:
That quote at the end from the blue made my life. After WoL and Cataclysm, I had sort of given up on Blizzard making truly HARD games again. In fact, Diablo 3 in general gave me hope for all of the next games Blizzard is making. Besides the obvious problems that you mentioned, D3 is perfect. Even the BNet 2.0 integration is amazing.
Also, I really liked the storyline. I've logged hundreds of hours on both D1 and D2 and loved the lore. I wish it had been a little less "conclusive" at the end, but thats namely because I REALLY want an xpack. Also they leave out why its important that Tyrael became the aspect of Wisdom, but w/e.
Regardless, 5/5.
major plot spoilers+ Show Spoiler +
It really bugs me that they left out wtf happened to Leah(hopefully goes in expo, as) ,how-to-Black Soulstone(why does it trap all the seven Evils?!), and more importantly WORLDSTONE DESTROYED NEED TO KNOW CONSEQUENCES NOW. Did its destruction help us or them? It made us stronger probably, blizz probably doesn't even know there was a Worldstone
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Good review, there will always be haters, no matter what. Opinions are like assholes.
Btw, my friend is playing a Witch Doctor and he's about level 50. He's loving it, but I guess not every class can be for everyone.
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On May 22 2012 02:22 hypercube wrote:So you're saying it's bland and unoriginal but people shouldn't complain because that's exactly what they should have expected. Not sure if that's an endorsement or not. edit: + Show Spoiler +Since there's so much negativity on TL I feel like I need to add this. As much as I disagree with your arguments (and I usually do) I still enjoy reading your blogs. You obviously have a talent for writing.
I'm not surprised by the negativity, gamers aren't exactly the most inspiring, optimistic people you will meet
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So by "polemical" you mean "run your mouth off at people who disagree with you"? Just checking to make sure we're on the same page.
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5 star'd for "oh shit, Duriel"
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I actually have seen people complain about the tits thing. 5/5.
And to the people complaining about graphics? That's why we have plotless tech demo type FPS games that get released every 12-18 months. Or, you know, L2epeen. Because nobody buys a Blizz game for the graphics. You want to Epeen, DL A FUCKING BENCHMARK.
(On this note, SWTOR's graphics pissed me off, but that's mostly because the game ran like dog shit, despite looking like the textures were legos someone finger painted on.)
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On May 21 2012 23:19 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story".
As someone who really enjoyed the ending to D1 following around your former hero was pretty damn awesome. No it wasn't a masterpiece story, but it was a really solid minimal story. D3 is a mess with no good characters.
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i never rate a blog and i've never played a minute of diablo 3.but i was a hardcore d2 player with many heroes 98+ and so on.i've watched many d3 streams and i can say i completely agree with you.10/5 if i could.gj!
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On May 22 2012 04:23 Lexpar wrote:
So by "polemical" you mean "run your mouth off at people who disagree with you"? Just checking to make sure we're on the same page.
I think he was running his mouth off at people he disagrees with :p small distinction
As for the OP, about the WoW comparison
I think its perfectly valid to compare it to WoW, just because WoW is an assimilation of various other styles of games doesnt mean it cant be used as a basis for comparison
I've never played many RPG games, but when I played D3 beta, my first thought was "it plays like WoW" because of the "hit-one-key-and-cast-a-spell" aspect of the game, which is NOT exclusive to WoW, but has resemblance to a play style which is often associated with WoW
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This was actually really informative for me :D
I just began playing diablo 2 as I'm waiting for a friend to finish with his exams before we co-op through the game and decided that I should give Diablo 2 a go since I never really played it properly(yeah, yeah, I know...). So now I know to spend those points in vitality!
Really fun read as always Gheed, you are my favorite blogger on TL!
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lol @ the tits. they are also kinda saggy.
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My main complaint is actually that some of the skills are retarded...
Seriously... machine gun crossbow? Have those developers ever tried to _use_ a crossbow?
Or Piercing Heat Seeking Bolts on level 1... with the additional chance to pierce rune i've seen one bolt kill 4 opponents by going through each of them twice... and one of those opponents was _behind_ me.
Or the Wizard... how do you call his first AoE skill? Galacticide? I throw galaxies at you and make them go boom. It was filled with 10'000 planets that had life on them? Oh, well, in astronomical terms it's basically nothing, so let's kill more lifeforms... by making countless species extinct.
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Haha, this post made my day. Love it.
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On May 22 2012 03:41 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 03:32 Crazyseal wrote:On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example). 1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem. 2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then? 3).... what? 4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game. If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one's forcing you to play it. If you wanted A, B and C but got A, B and D, either suck it up or find a game that fulfills your criteria. If you got D, E and F instead, it's your fault for buying a game without any prior research.
Im not saying anyone is forcing me to play it im giving you my opinion on the game. And its not my fault, as i did research it and i dident buy it tyvm.
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On May 22 2012 04:45 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:19 Tobberoth wrote:On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story". As someone who really enjoyed the ending to D1 following around your former hero was pretty damn awesome. No it wasn't a masterpiece story, but it was a really solid minimal story. D3 is a mess with no good characters.
I liked the enchantress, wasn't a fan of listening to the templar, and I have yet to give the scoundral a chance. I did like how you could hire a follower and get to know their story as you went along, but it could have been done even better.
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On May 22 2012 06:38 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 04:45 Logo wrote:On May 21 2012 23:19 Tobberoth wrote:On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story". As someone who really enjoyed the ending to D1 following around your former hero was pretty damn awesome. No it wasn't a masterpiece story, but it was a really solid minimal story. D3 is a mess with no good characters. I liked the enchantress, wasn't a fan of listening to the templar, and I have yet to give the scoundral a chance. I did like how you could hire a follower and get to know their story as you went along, but it could have been done even better.
I found it vaguely amusing that the Enchantress felt like a more complete "typical female NPC" than Leah, who + Show Spoiler +basically just exists to get thrown under a plotbus.
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On May 22 2012 06:44 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 06:38 Wrongspeedy wrote:On May 22 2012 04:45 Logo wrote:On May 21 2012 23:19 Tobberoth wrote:On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story". As someone who really enjoyed the ending to D1 following around your former hero was pretty damn awesome. No it wasn't a masterpiece story, but it was a really solid minimal story. D3 is a mess with no good characters. I liked the enchantress, wasn't a fan of listening to the templar, and I have yet to give the scoundral a chance. I did like how you could hire a follower and get to know their story as you went along, but it could have been done even better. I found it vaguely amusing that the Enchantress felt like a more complete "typical female NPC" than Leah, who + Show Spoiler +basically just exists to get thrown under a plotbus.
I like Scoundrel's story most out of the 3, then Enchant, then templar last cause there's no drama in his story :D
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On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell.
Equal opportunity demon possession. Am I the only one who thought this was cool?
edit: About the story...
For the record I agree with Gheed in principle because that's how I view Diablo as a vehicle for storytelling and a game experience, but I also agree with those who criticize his anti-anti-story rant as misguided and subpar.
I just wanted to make one point. The narrative complexity in the Diablo games progresses in each addition to the series, but the presentation gets increasingly unhinged from the essence of the narrative that is being expressed. If you break down the story elements into the major plot points and analyze like a script writer, clearly D3 has the best story -- it has true tragedy, comedy that illuminates the world and characters, and thematic meat on its hero vs evil bones. But when you play the game, clearly it has the most unengaging, hokey, and audience-dissonant story. Why?
It's transparently the same syndrome as most modern games: too many people working in disjointed chunks that produce an incoherent puddle of "assets" as opposed to something with personality, structure, and overarching presence. Every line is spoonfed to you to drive home the significance of what is happening!. Following the story is like going through an inventory line by line of all the reasons why you're doing this quest right now. News flash: every quest in every game ever is a kill the bad guy or fetch quest, spatial objectives being an offshoot of the latter. I am not looking for motivation, I am looking for spirit and mood as conveyed through goings-on, extra credit for philosophical waxing in the rafters. Unforetunately, the only soul to be found is whatever you can find in the corners in glowing granuals, piecemeal and scanty. Or whatever you dream up for yourself while you roam the desert listening to the adventure music.
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You're so good at writing, it makes you impossible to disagree with.
Always love your blogs, Gheed!
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Boss fights were bad, skills system too dumbed down, MFing wrecked, zero character custimization. It's an entertaining game, but it's no diablo.
Then again, all I wanted was a D2 reskin. Dem nostalgiagoggles.
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Great blog.
But why always so negative?
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On May 22 2012 07:14 metbull wrote:
Great blog.
But why always so negative?
Because.
No if everything was fine it would be a bad game.... right?
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On May 22 2012 07:17 Xiron wrote:Because. No if everything was fine it would be a bad game.... right?
I actually thought this was one of the more positive reviews LOL. I think Gheed was trying to be sarcastic not negative towards other people. Thats what I got from it.
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Haha sweet, you opened the door to attacking strawmen in a humorous and hyperbolic manner, so I'll indulge in the same:
Congratulations! You, personally, with this review, have ensured that I will never buy this game. Not until I see it in the bargain bin for ten bucks, anyway, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily. This thread was the tipping point that made me not give a shit about this game despite having been excited about a sequel for ten years, and here's why:
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
This is precisely the reason I have mostly stopped buying Blizzard games: This infantile notion that the story doesn't and shouldn't matter, that horrible writing can and should be excused, that you can and should expect nothing more from video games. It's players like you, players who skip all of the cutscenes and refuse to immerse yourselves in the experience, players who say "nobody reads the shit after the first run through, and most people probably don't even do that", that hold gaming back as a storytelling medium. You look at this, then collectively vote in concordance with your wallets as if to say, "yep, more instant gratification, please."
Fuck that.
I find the idea of expecting and demanding nothing more than mediocrity insulting, and I am not about to show my approbation of such inanity by giving them my money. I expect the product to piss excellence. I will grudgingly settle for mediocrity if at least the intention was good, but Blizzard has continuously shown a complete and utter disregard for the process of writing and storytelling. They no longer understand that a good story can elevate a good game into something memorable. They no longer care. And why should they? Your mentality - seemingly in the majority - is clear evidence that their non-efforts will still be rewarded, so why should they bother to improve? It's clear that their products are no longer for me.
Bringing the "no, you're dumb" argument right back around 180 degrees with the applied force of an alicorn sledgehammer.
+ Show Spoiler +@Gheed: I thought the OP was a great read, and pretty funny, and my rant above was made in the same spirit, so don't take it too seriously. =) I also thought your post fairly accurate despite its hyperbolic nature, and I agree with most of it. The complaints people throw at this game are inane, though I would like to believe they're made mostly because people are trying to justify their dislike.
In terms of the story, it's actually one of the better crafted stories Blizzard has written in recent history... which is extremely saddening to realize, because it's still so bad. But you know what? I wouldn't even care if the story was bad. I'd still buy it and be disappointed in it, and then ignore it like you said and play it for the items. In fact, I wish I could do just that -- ignore it, and play it with a bunch of friends just to have fun and kill demons.
But in this case, I can't. It's too much, and I've had enough of it. I will no longer show my monetary support of companies that show such a blatant disregard for that (still-numerous) minority who simply ask for decent stories in video games -- something to sink our teeth into, something to immerse ourselves in, something we can talk about besides just the gameplay. It's the same reason I won't be buying HotS -- I refuse to support the decision to ignore what I'm sure will be labelled "the cries of the fanboys" about something that isn't even too hard to improve upon.
It's the sad truth that few gaming developers are good at storytelling, but Blizzard used to get a passing grade. Their games have always been quirky and used all kinds of cliche elements from other fantasy and science fiction stories, but they were strung together decently and executed well, and the characters were likeable and memorable. More importantly, stuff actually happened. The entire narrative of Starcraft 1 progresses in a logical, well-told fashion. Each mission has you doing different things, and vitally, there's a sense of progression in the universe.
Contrast that with the SC2 campaign. The progression, the arc, is completely gone on a fundamental level. In place of a narrative structure, we have a much weaker structure designed to be malleable and based on your choices (which is a pointless endeavor because you end up doing everything anyway). There is a never-ending cycle of rescuing colonists and hunting for artifacts. More than half of the missions revolve around collecting the fucking MacGuffin artifacts. All the while, Raynor never shuts up about Kerrigan. Nothing of note happens until the absolute very end.
Blizzard used to have science fiction authors working on the story for them. Unfortunately, like every other game company today, Blizzard has long since axed their creativity division and replaced it with Michael Bay just in time for the stupid epidemic known as the World of Warcraft era -- dumbed down and watered down.
They used to have science fiction and fantasy authors working on their games. Now they've got Chris "Starcraft 2 is a story about a boy and a girl" Metzen, who's gone from beloved artist to George Lucas Jr.
Yes, it has in fact been a year and a half, and I am in fact still pissed about it. Like with Diablo 3, I do not intend to buy HotS until I see it in a bargain bin, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily.
Edit: 5 star'd for "Oh shit Duriel".
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inb4 all the paid perks of a 'free to play game'
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On May 22 2012 06:55 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell. Equal opportunity demon possession. Am I the only one who thought this was cool? edit: About the story... For the record I agree with Gheed in principle because that's how I view Diablo as a vehicle for storytelling and a game experience, but I also agree with those who criticize his anti-anti-story rant as misguided and subpar. I just wanted to make one point. The narrative complexity in the Diablo games progresses in each addition to the series, but the presentation gets increasingly unhinged from the essence of the narrative that is being expressed. If you break down the story elements into the major plot points and analyze like a script writer, clearly D3 has the best story -- it has true tragedy, comedy that illuminates the world and characters, and thematic meat on its hero vs evil bones. But when you play the game, clearly it has the most unengaging, hokey, and audience-dissonant story. Why? It's transparently the same syndrome as most modern games: too many people working in disjointed chunks that produce an incoherent puddle of "assets" as opposed to something with personality, structure, and overarching presence. Every line is spoonfed to you to drive home the significance of what is happening!. Following the story is like going through an inventory line by line of all the reasons why you're doing this quest right now. News flash: every quest in every game ever is a kill the bad guy or fetch quest, spatial objectives being an offshoot of the latter. I am not looking for motivation, I am looking for spirit and mood as conveyed through goings-on, extra credit for philosophical waxing in the rafters. Unforetunately, the only soul to be found is whatever you can find in the corners in glowing granuals, piecemeal and scanty. Or whatever you dream up for yourself while you roam the desert listening to the adventure music.
Wha? How is that different from D2 or whatever? It just seems like the story has way more personality, immersion, and coherence than any of the previous games.
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand complaints against the story. If anything the story may just be harder to ignore, which is pretty odd complaint. The only other complaint that seems valid to me is the personality of my character. I mean my character just seems a little too badass, like we've gone beyond Chuck Norris levels here.
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Now you wait just a minute
My wind druid was awesome.
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On May 22 2012 07:13 Heh_ wrote:
If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one's forcing you to play it. If you wanted A, B and C but got A, B and D, either suck it up or find a game that fulfills your criteria. If you got D, E and F instead, it's your fault for buying a game without any prior research.
Hell yeah, if I don't like the game, I should STFU and just quietly stop playing. All purchaser reviews should be positive. Really, this should be true for all products. People who enjoy the game shouldn't have to read the opinions of those who were disappointed. It upsets them.
I got 5% into Nightmare, hit a difficult pack and just went, "Meh, I'm done." Maybe if my D2 buddies find the game, I'll give it another go. Thanks for your advice; I've taken it.
On May 22 2012 07:13 gillon wrote:
Boss fights were bad, skills system too dumbed down, MFing wrecked, zero character custimization. It's an entertaining game, but it's no diablo.
Then again, all I wanted was a D2 reskin. Dem nostalgiagoggles.
I subscribe to all of this. I wanted a sequel to D2. So okay, I didn't get that. I got the crappy third installment that's the money grab. Have movies taught me nothing?
I can't get over having only six skills. The arguments against this are, I don't know, not even arguments. Fine, give me a cooldown, but at least let me change a skill using keyboard commands. I kept getting the feeling that this limitation was for lazy gameplay/balance development.
I don't understand any comparisons to WoW. The play is completely dissimilar.
I don't care about the story very much. It's always going to be some great evil about to destroy everything, with one evil following another like a season of 24. But the mood, environment, music, fun illusion of getting Mystical Widget A from Bad Guy B is extremely uninspired and boring. I don't play games for the story, but when I pop open Arkham City / Max Payne / D1 / D2, I want some fun immersion. This is my least favorite part of D3. It sucked bad.
Gheed, not your best work. Partially because I don't dislike the game for the reasons you strawman'd, and the rest was said well by others.
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On May 22 2012 08:06 Aylear wrote:Haha sweet, you opened the door to attacking strawmen in a humorous and hyperbolic manner, so I'll indulge in the same: Congratulations! You, personally, with this review, have ensured that I will never buy this game. Not until I see it in the bargain bin for ten bucks, anyway, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily. This thread was the tipping point that made me not give a shit about this game despite having been excited about a sequel for ten years, and here's why: Show nested quote +
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
This is precisely the reason I have mostly stopped buying Blizzard games: This infantile notion that the story doesn't and shouldn't matter, that horrible writing can and should be excused, that you can and should expect nothing more from video games. It's players like you, players who skip all of the cutscenes and refuse to immerse yourselves in the experience, players who say "nobody reads the shit after the first run through, and most people probably don't even do that", that hold gaming back as a storytelling medium. You look at this, then collectively vote in concordance with your wallets as if to say, "yep, more instant gratification, please." Fuck that. I find the idea of expecting and demanding nothing more than mediocrity insulting, and I am not about to show my approbation of such inanity by giving them my money. I expect the product to piss excellence. I will grudgingly settle for mediocrity if at least the intention was good, but Blizzard has continuously shown a complete and utter disregard for the process of writing and storytelling. They no longer understand that a good story can elevate a good game into something memorable. They no longer care. And why should they? Your mentality - seemingly in the majority - is clear evidence that their non-efforts will still be rewarded, so why should they bother to improve? It's clear that their products are no longer for me. Bringing the "no, you're dumb" argument right back around 180 degrees with the applied force of an alicorn sledgehammer. + Show Spoiler +@Gheed: I thought the OP was a great read, and pretty funny, and my rant above was made in the same spirit, so don't take it too seriously. =) I also thought your post fairly accurate despite its hyperbolic nature, and I agree with most of it. The complaints people throw at this game are inane, though I would like to believe they're made mostly because people are trying to justify their dislike.
In terms of the story, it's actually one of the better crafted stories Blizzard has written in recent history... which is extremely saddening to realize, because it's still so bad. But you know what? I wouldn't even care if the story was bad. I'd still buy it and be disappointed in it, and then ignore it like you said and play it for the items. In fact, I wish I could do just that -- ignore it, and play it with a bunch of friends just to have fun and kill demons.
But in this case, I can't. It's too much, and I've had enough of it. I will no longer show my monetary support of companies that show such a blatant disregard for that (still-numerous) minority who simply ask for decent stories in video games -- something to sink our teeth into, something to immerse ourselves in, something we can talk about besides just the gameplay. It's the same reason I won't be buying HotS -- I refuse to support the decision to ignore what I'm sure will be labelled "the cries of the fanboys" about something that isn't even too hard to improve upon.
It's the sad truth that few gaming developers are good at storytelling, but Blizzard used to get a passing grade. Their games have always been quirky and used all kinds of cliche elements from other fantasy and science fiction stories, but they were strung together decently and executed well, and the characters were likeable and memorable. More importantly, stuff actually happened. The entire narrative of Starcraft 1 progresses in a logical, well-told fashion. Each mission has you doing different things, and vitally, there's a sense of progression in the universe.
Contrast that with the SC2 campaign. The progression, the arc, is completely gone on a fundamental level. In place of a narrative structure, we have a much weaker structure designed to be malleable and based on your choices (which is a pointless endeavor because you end up doing everything anyway). There is a never-ending cycle of rescuing colonists and hunting for artifacts. More than half of the missions revolve around collecting the fucking MacGuffin artifacts. All the while, Raynor never shuts up about Kerrigan. Nothing of note happens until the absolute very end.
Blizzard used to have science fiction authors working on the story for them. Unfortunately, like every other game company today, Blizzard has long since axed their creativity division and replaced it with Michael Bay just in time for the stupid epidemic known as the World of Warcraft era -- dumbed down and watered down.
They used to have science fiction and fantasy authors working on their games. Now they've got Chris "Starcraft 2 is a story about a boy and a girl" Metzen, who's gone from beloved artist to George Lucas Jr.
Yes, it has in fact been a year and a half, and I am in fact still pissed about it. Like with Diablo 3, I do not intend to buy HotS until I see it in a bargain bin, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily.
Edit: 5 star'd for "Oh shit Duriel".
NO.
And i'm gonna take your side for a moment. I firmly believe that the coined term "generation of entitlement" is something spun by marketing folks to shame us into liking products, no matter how bad they are. Remember that marketing guy from EA who admitted that his job(he was let go recently) was to troll forums and divert bad press from EA games(notably SWTOR)? And to our herd shame, what he did actually worked...
But you are beginning to stretch me there.
You don't know who's behind the D3 story, the same way that you don't know which Symphony studio Blizzard uses for the music for their games. You don't know if Blizzarrd truly has used the same people for their story/music all this time, or whether they've changed up the contractors. Was BW music better than SC2's? To a large extent I would say yes. But again, what proof do I have that it's not the same music studio who did the music for both games?
The stories have been written now. The stories have been told. It's time for new stories. It sounds to me as if you're just pining for the so-called old glory days of storytelling when none actually existed. Even the stories that you revered, were clones of other more "original" stories. Sorry to tell you this, but it's the truth.
Just because you didn't enjoy the story, doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't either.
About the only high mark I can give you, is that you sound like the kind of guy who would agree with me whole-heartedly, that Transformers the Movie(1986) completely destroys anything and everything that Michael Bay would ever put out.
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The main problem with WD i feel is that once you hit 40 you get a passive which gives you 300% mana regen with 4 skills on cd. Its broken as fuck, the best build you have is choosing 4 skills with CD's, spamming them constantly and spamming dire bats the rest of the time because it gives you 220% weapon damage and you can fire em off ridiculously fast forever, unlimited by mana.
Sure it feels nice doing 10k a hit at ~50 in a line to EVERYTHING for a while, but its gets tedious and the class feels really unpolished. Most of the skills are copies of each other or are just actually completely shit, which is a dayum shame.
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On May 22 2012 09:08 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 08:06 Aylear wrote:Haha sweet, you opened the door to attacking strawmen in a humorous and hyperbolic manner, so I'll indulge in the same: Congratulations! You, personally, with this review, have ensured that I will never buy this game. Not until I see it in the bargain bin for ten bucks, anyway, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily. This thread was the tipping point that made me not give a shit about this game despite having been excited about a sequel for ten years, and here's why:
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
This is precisely the reason I have mostly stopped buying Blizzard games: This infantile notion that the story doesn't and shouldn't matter, that horrible writing can and should be excused, that you can and should expect nothing more from video games. It's players like you, players who skip all of the cutscenes and refuse to immerse yourselves in the experience, players who say "nobody reads the shit after the first run through, and most people probably don't even do that", that hold gaming back as a storytelling medium. You look at this, then collectively vote in concordance with your wallets as if to say, "yep, more instant gratification, please." Fuck that. I find the idea of expecting and demanding nothing more than mediocrity insulting, and I am not about to show my approbation of such inanity by giving them my money. I expect the product to piss excellence. I will grudgingly settle for mediocrity if at least the intention was good, but Blizzard has continuously shown a complete and utter disregard for the process of writing and storytelling. They no longer understand that a good story can elevate a good game into something memorable. They no longer care. And why should they? Your mentality - seemingly in the majority - is clear evidence that their non-efforts will still be rewarded, so why should they bother to improve? It's clear that their products are no longer for me. Bringing the "no, you're dumb" argument right back around 180 degrees with the applied force of an alicorn sledgehammer. + Show Spoiler +@Gheed: I thought the OP was a great read, and pretty funny, and my rant above was made in the same spirit, so don't take it too seriously. =) I also thought your post fairly accurate despite its hyperbolic nature, and I agree with most of it. The complaints people throw at this game are inane, though I would like to believe they're made mostly because people are trying to justify their dislike.
In terms of the story, it's actually one of the better crafted stories Blizzard has written in recent history... which is extremely saddening to realize, because it's still so bad. But you know what? I wouldn't even care if the story was bad. I'd still buy it and be disappointed in it, and then ignore it like you said and play it for the items. In fact, I wish I could do just that -- ignore it, and play it with a bunch of friends just to have fun and kill demons.
But in this case, I can't. It's too much, and I've had enough of it. I will no longer show my monetary support of companies that show such a blatant disregard for that (still-numerous) minority who simply ask for decent stories in video games -- something to sink our teeth into, something to immerse ourselves in, something we can talk about besides just the gameplay. It's the same reason I won't be buying HotS -- I refuse to support the decision to ignore what I'm sure will be labelled "the cries of the fanboys" about something that isn't even too hard to improve upon.
It's the sad truth that few gaming developers are good at storytelling, but Blizzard used to get a passing grade. Their games have always been quirky and used all kinds of cliche elements from other fantasy and science fiction stories, but they were strung together decently and executed well, and the characters were likeable and memorable. More importantly, stuff actually happened. The entire narrative of Starcraft 1 progresses in a logical, well-told fashion. Each mission has you doing different things, and vitally, there's a sense of progression in the universe.
Contrast that with the SC2 campaign. The progression, the arc, is completely gone on a fundamental level. In place of a narrative structure, we have a much weaker structure designed to be malleable and based on your choices (which is a pointless endeavor because you end up doing everything anyway). There is a never-ending cycle of rescuing colonists and hunting for artifacts. More than half of the missions revolve around collecting the fucking MacGuffin artifacts. All the while, Raynor never shuts up about Kerrigan. Nothing of note happens until the absolute very end.
Blizzard used to have science fiction authors working on the story for them. Unfortunately, like every other game company today, Blizzard has long since axed their creativity division and replaced it with Michael Bay just in time for the stupid epidemic known as the World of Warcraft era -- dumbed down and watered down.
They used to have science fiction and fantasy authors working on their games. Now they've got Chris "Starcraft 2 is a story about a boy and a girl" Metzen, who's gone from beloved artist to George Lucas Jr.
Yes, it has in fact been a year and a half, and I am in fact still pissed about it. Like with Diablo 3, I do not intend to buy HotS until I see it in a bargain bin, or I'm bored, or it's another dateless Friday, or I've been drinking heavily.
Edit: 5 star'd for "Oh shit Duriel". NO. And i'm gonna take your side for a moment. I firmly believe that the coined term "generation of entitlement" is something spun by marketing folks to shame us into liking products, no matter how bad they are. Remember that marketing guy from EA who admitted that his job(he was let go recently) was to troll forums and divert bad press from EA games(notably SWTOR)? And to our herd shame, what he did actually worked... But you are beginning to stretch me there. You don't know who's behind the D3 story, the same way that you don't know which Symphony studio Blizzard uses for the music for their games. You don't know if Blizzarrd truly has used the same people for their story/music all this time, or whether they've changed up the contractors. Was BW music better than SC2's? To a large extent I would say yes. But again, what proof do I have that it's not the same music studio who did the music for both games? The stories have been written now. The stories have been told. It's time for new stories. It sounds to me as if you're just pining for the so-called old glory days of storytelling when none actually existed. Even the stories that you revered, were clones of other more "original" stories. Sorry to tell you this, but it's the truth. Just because you didn't enjoy the story, doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't either. About the only high mark I can give you, is that you sound like the kind of guy who would agree with me whole-heartedly, that Transformers the Movie(1986) completely destroys anything and everything that Michael Bay would ever put out.
Everything you said is completely wrong, or you are arguing against viewpoints I do not have.
To start, I know who's behind the Diablo 3 story: Chris Metzen[1]. The writers of Diablo 2, conversely, were Stieg Hedlund, Matt Householder, Phil Shenk, Kurt Beaver, and Bob Vieira. I know this because the games have credits. If you want an easily accessible source, welcome to IMDb: Diablo II & Diablo III.
This is why I laid the blame squarely on Chris Metzen's shoulders, and it's also why I made the Lucas comparison. The progression of Metzen from artist to head writer is eerily similar to the journey that George Lucas took: A man without complete creative control surrounded by people who knew what they were doing slowly gains more and more control of their projects until they have no one to answer to. Didst thou thinkest my quote from Metzen regarding SC2 as "A story about a boy and a girl" apocryphal or irrelevent? He is at the core of everything Blizzard does, and when you have a bad head writer whose visions of the respective universe does not match the tone or style of the original work, we get fucking Attack of the Clones. Okay? Moving on.
As for the Starcraft music - something I didn't even mention, so what the fuck, over - the person above me countered that already by showing you that it was made by different people. Not just that, but multiple composers were brought in for SC2 - one to do the music for each race - to ensure there would be different musical feel for all three. It worked out okay and I have no complaints, because while I do think the music in SC/BW was better, it certainly wasn't a big deal for SC2 in any regard.
The stories have been written now. The stories have been told. It's time for new stories. It sounds to me as if you're just pining for the so-called old glory days of storytelling when none actually existed. Even the stories that you revered, were clones of other more "original" stories. Sorry to tell you this, but it's the truth.
First of all, saying "Sorry to tell you this, but it's the truth" is insulting (basically insinuating that the person doesn't know or cannot comprehend things on your clearly superior intellectual level) and is counter-productive when trying to win anyone over to your side. I recommend not using it any more.
Second, I made that very point in my writing: That even back then, Blizzard games were not pinnacles of storytelling, nor were they particularly original. As I said, their games were always quirky and used all kinds of cliche elements from other fantasy and science fiction stories, but - and here's the important part - they were strung together decently and executed well, and the characters were likeable and memorable. They aren't masterpieces, but with them, Blizzard got a passing grade.
Just because you didn't enjoy the story, doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't either.
Nor did I ever insinuate this, and in fact I made it plain in my rant that this was why I felt the products were no longer made for me and my tastes.
And yes, I would agree that Transformers The Movie completely destroys everything that Michael Bay has put out.
Except The Rock. Because The Rock is awesome.
[1] There are in fact a few co-writers for Diablo 3, namely Leonard Boyarsky, Flint Dille, and Jay Wilson -- however, none of them are credited beyond "writer" (unlike Metzen who is credited with the story), and not one of them worked on Diablo 2. Metzen did work on the story for StarCraft, but alongside a co-writer who is no longer employed by Blizzard. In fact, none of the old writers are.
I meant it when I said that I think Blizzard axed their cleverness division a long time ago.
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On May 21 2012 17:58 TheKefka wrote:Story spoilers I guess + Show Spoiler +As far as the story goes I will never forgive blizzard for killing of Cain in such a pussy way.He didn't even get a epic death or a cinematic(well I guess that little cut scene when tyrael and leah are at his grave but meh) or anything,he just died like a bitch.Probably the most iconic character in the diablo universe aside from diablo and tyrael maybe to get such a pitiful death is just disgusting. I agree on normal being too easy.In d2 normal you could easily die to duriel the first time you fell down into his hole and it was like "o shit this bitch hits hard."I never came close to dying on a normal boss,hell,trash packs were easier to die on. The combat is pretty good tho I have to give that to blizzard.Feels beefy and much much better than in previous games.
Hes coming back. The teaser trailer for D4 will be have cain's voice right at the very end and we'll all be like OH FUCKFFFFKKFKKFKFKF
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I think it's nonsense to say people didn't play Diablo for the story. That was the #1 reason I bought and played the game. Diablo 1 had an awesome story line. I bought D2 in the hopes of seeing that storyline progress further. Same for D3. D2's story was alright, not great. D3's was abysmal.
Not everyone buys a game to replay it 50,000 times. Some people just want to play it once and they do so for the story.
Also, the difficulty was almost nonexistent. This coming from a guy who played all the way to act 3 of Inferno with Wizard just to see if the gameplay ever improved. It did not. And considering it took me less than a week to advance to almost the end of a game... Pathetic.
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uh idk if u've played d2 or d1 recently
but there was barely a story in d1 and d2's story was about as good as d3 (ie pretty awful)
wizards have a much easier time because there's a skill combo that makes u pretty much invicible ...
and a week? how many hours is a week? lol
the game's not perfect and there's a lot of stuff that needs to be patched out (wiz invulnerability, azmodan quad runs, monk near-invulnerability for example) but d3's probably the most solid game in its genre so far
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On May 22 2012 14:10 Dead9 wrote:
uh idk if u've played d2 or d1 recently
but there was barely a story in d1 and d2's story was about as good as d3 (ie pretty awful)
wizards have a much easier time because there's a skill combo that makes u pretty much invicible ...
and a week? how many hours is a week? lol
the game's not perfect and there's a lot of stuff that needs to be patched out (wiz invulnerability, azmodan quad runs, monk near-invulnerability for example) but d3's probably the most solid game in its genre so far
What? The original Diablo story was awesome. A portal to hell has opened up deep underneath a cathedral and evil has slowly seeped out to pollute the land around it. You investigate the disturbing stories of frightened villagers and slowly get drawn deeper and deeper into the evil, fighting your way through the macabre hallways of a corrupted church until you're knee-deep in demons in the very depths of hell itself.
The storyline is absolutely epic. The ambient sounds and effects were terrifying. The setting was brilliant. Fighting in a church that's been corrupted by evil was such a delicious paradox. The Butcher was such a sinister villain when you first met him. You could just tell he'd been in there, hacking up bodies, and eating the innards of his victims for months. You felt the meaty thwack and visceral pleasure of goat men bleating as they hit the floor.
Sorry, but you're raving mad if you think the original Diablo barely had a story.
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On May 22 2012 13:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I think it's nonsense to say people didn't play Diablo for the story. That was the #1 reason I bought and played the game. Diablo 1 had an awesome story line. I bought D2 in the hopes of seeing that storyline progress further. Same for D3. D2's story was alright, not great. D3's was abysmal.
Not everyone buys a game to replay it 50,000 times. Some people just want to play it once and they do so for the story.
Also, the difficulty was almost nonexistent. This coming from a guy who played all the way to act 3 of Inferno with Wizard just to see if the gameplay ever improved. It did not. And considering it took me less than a week to advance to almost the end of a game... Pathetic.
You bought it for the story and then replayed it until you got to act 3 inferno? Diablo 2 was shorter than Diablo 3. Diablo 2 wasn't harder than Diablo 3 (equal or easier) and unless you loved doing meph/baal runs or leveling up alts then the only replayability was pvp which was full of level 99's who modded their way to level 99. Pvp isn't even out yet for D3 and people are having fun with it.
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On May 22 2012 14:42 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 13:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I think it's nonsense to say people didn't play Diablo for the story. That was the #1 reason I bought and played the game. Diablo 1 had an awesome story line. I bought D2 in the hopes of seeing that storyline progress further. Same for D3. D2's story was alright, not great. D3's was abysmal.
Not everyone buys a game to replay it 50,000 times. Some people just want to play it once and they do so for the story.
Also, the difficulty was almost nonexistent. This coming from a guy who played all the way to act 3 of Inferno with Wizard just to see if the gameplay ever improved. It did not. And considering it took me less than a week to advance to almost the end of a game... Pathetic. You bought it for the story and then replayed it until you got to act 3 inferno? Diablo 2 was shorter than Diablo 3. Diablo 2 wasn't harder than Diablo 3 (equal or easier) and unless you loved doing meph/baal runs or leveling up alts then the only replayability was pvp which was full of level 99's who modded their way to level 99. Pvp isn't even out yet for D3 and people are having fun with it.
I bought it for the story. The story sucked. I replayed it, hoping the gameplay at higher difficulties would redeem the game, in an attempt to recoup some of my financial loss from investing in such a disappointing product. I was further disappointed. Thus ends the tragic tale of The Gamer, Forlorn.
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my thoughts on diablo 3:
story sucked
music sucked
no awesome gothic theme like in diablo 1.
i actually knew diablo 3 was going to suck in these areas before i bought it, i was hoping the game would excell in other areas, but it failed alot in other areas too.
hardly any gameplay improvements from diablo 2, it's pretty much the same game.
the few improvements are the spells and abilities, and runes or skilltrees ect are better designed than diablo 2. And interface is better as well obviously. So, hacking and slashing aspect flows better than in D2 imo. Apart from that though the game is garbage.
Remember back to diablo 1 and diablo 2, and remember the difference between those games. Now think of the difference between D2 and D3.
The same goes for brood war and starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was pretty much the same game as brood war, except with worse story/ singleplayer and better interface.
How the hell does these games take 5+ years to make? You could write the entire story/script for diablo 3 in one day.
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Any Gheed blog is worth 5/5 from me. Awesome read.
P.S. I gotta admit.....I had to google the meaning of "polemical" due to my horrible vocab
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On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
I hate the items! Rares are as good as uniques and set items!
Uh, good? Do you know how fucking boring the game was when everyone had the same items? Once you got "the items," you were done. You could build every single caster with hoto/enigmia/spirit shield/shaco/war travs/mara's/2xsoj. And, because of a combination of duping and forum gold, they were incredibly easy to obtain, and thus incredibly boring. On the other hand, the most exciting parts of Diablo 2 was hunting for a godly bow skills dual leech gloves, or a pcomb with a good affix. Those were the items that were worth the most money, and they weren't set items or rune words. By not making Uniques the be-all and end-all, it means you're never "done" with items, which, for a game like Diablo, is a good thing. I remember the first time that I was "done." I quit the game until the next ladder reset. The moments of "oh boy, my pshaco has a ber in it now," or "hey, my hoto rolled a 40" was not the peak of my enjoyment of the game, despite it being the peak of my character's power.
Couldnt agree with this part the most.
I really enjoy hunting down dat 700+dps 100 vit/str 1-hander. Everytime I ID a weap I always hold my breathe lol.
Having the game dictated by "godly" uniques and sets isnt the way to go. Very boring.
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On May 22 2012 17:03 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
I hate the items! Rares are as good as uniques and set items!
Uh, good? Do you know how fucking boring the game was when everyone had the same items? Once you got "the items," you were done. You could build every single caster with hoto/enigmia/spirit shield/shaco/war travs/mara's/2xsoj. And, because of a combination of duping and forum gold, they were incredibly easy to obtain, and thus incredibly boring. On the other hand, the most exciting parts of Diablo 2 was hunting for a godly bow skills dual leech gloves, or a pcomb with a good affix. Those were the items that were worth the most money, and they weren't set items or rune words. By not making Uniques the be-all and end-all, it means you're never "done" with items, which, for a game like Diablo, is a good thing. I remember the first time that I was "done." I quit the game until the next ladder reset. The moments of "oh boy, my pshaco has a ber in it now," or "hey, my hoto rolled a 40" was not the peak of my enjoyment of the game, despite it being the peak of my character's power.
Couldnt agree with this part the most. I really enjoy hunting down dat 700+dps 100 vit/str 1-hander. Everytime I ID a weap I always hold my breathe lol. Having the game dictated by "godly" uniques and sets isnt the way to go. Very boring.
There's not really any hunting with the auction house though. You just farm gold and then go buy whatever you want off the auction house...
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On May 22 2012 16:12 lpstroggoz wrote:
my thoughts on diablo 3:
story sucked
music sucked
no awesome gothic theme like in diablo 1.
i actually knew diablo 3 was going to suck in these areas before i bought it, i was hoping the game would excell in other areas, but it failed alot in other areas too.
hardly any gameplay improvements from diablo 2, it's pretty much the same game.
the few improvements are the spells and abilities, and runes or skilltrees ect are better designed than diablo 2. And interface is better as well obviously. So, hacking and slashing aspect flows better than in D2 imo. Apart from that though the game is garbage.
Remember back to diablo 1 and diablo 2, and remember the difference between those games. Now think of the difference between D2 and D3.
The same goes for brood war and starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was pretty much the same game as brood war, except with worse story/ singleplayer and better interface.
How the hell does these games take 5+ years to make? You could write the entire story/script for diablo 3 in one day.
Thanks for this post, just been waiting for someone who isn't trying to justify spending money/time/hope on diablo 3 and is honestly looking at the game from a player's perspective. Gheed and others have been close to swaying me to buy the game but now I will hold strong and not buy it until it is cheap.
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On May 22 2012 19:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:12 lpstroggoz wrote:
my thoughts on diablo 3:
story sucked
music sucked
no awesome gothic theme like in diablo 1.
i actually knew diablo 3 was going to suck in these areas before i bought it, i was hoping the game would excell in other areas, but it failed alot in other areas too.
hardly any gameplay improvements from diablo 2, it's pretty much the same game.
the few improvements are the spells and abilities, and runes or skilltrees ect are better designed than diablo 2. And interface is better as well obviously. So, hacking and slashing aspect flows better than in D2 imo. Apart from that though the game is garbage.
Remember back to diablo 1 and diablo 2, and remember the difference between those games. Now think of the difference between D2 and D3.
The same goes for brood war and starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was pretty much the same game as brood war, except with worse story/ singleplayer and better interface.
How the hell does these games take 5+ years to make? You could write the entire story/script for diablo 3 in one day.
Thanks for this post, just been waiting for someone who isn't trying to justify spending money/time/hope on diablo 3 and is honestly looking at the game from a player's perspective. Gheed and others have been close to swaying me to buy the game but now I will hold strong and not buy it until it is cheap.
What's your reason to value his post higher than the OP? The OP is well written and in-depth, while his post is... well, yeah. The game is awesome, but anyone who doesn't want to buy it can obviously just listen to haters, but you don't need people on this forum for that, just go to metacritic if you're looking for overly negative opinions.
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On May 22 2012 14:37 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 14:10 Dead9 wrote:
uh idk if u've played d2 or d1 recently
but there was barely a story in d1 and d2's story was about as good as d3 (ie pretty awful)
wizards have a much easier time because there's a skill combo that makes u pretty much invicible ...
and a week? how many hours is a week? lol
the game's not perfect and there's a lot of stuff that needs to be patched out (wiz invulnerability, azmodan quad runs, monk near-invulnerability for example) but d3's probably the most solid game in its genre so far What? The original Diablo story was awesome. A portal to hell has opened up deep underneath a cathedral and evil has slowly seeped out to pollute the land around it. You investigate the disturbing stories of frightened villagers and slowly get drawn deeper and deeper into the evil, fighting your way through the macabre hallways of a corrupted church until you're knee-deep in demons in the very depths of hell itself. The storyline is absolutely epic. The ambient sounds and effects were terrifying. The setting was brilliant. Fighting in a church that's been corrupted by evil was such a delicious paradox. The Butcher was such a sinister villain when you first met him. You could just tell he'd been in there, hacking up bodies, and eating the innards of his victims for months. You felt the meaty thwack and visceral pleasure of goat men bleating as they hit the floor. Sorry, but you're raving mad if you think the original Diablo barely had a story.
What? How is that not an excuse plot?
Are you being sarcastic or something? I mean the very first Act of Diablo 3 has that kind of "epic storyline," where you are trailing the story of the king gone mad, exploring the ruined monastery and his private manor, jail, and torture chamber, discovering more details of his tragic fall.
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Calling people that disagree with you stupid isn't really polemic. Apart from that very little content, No idea why this blog is featured. 
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I noticed Diablo's tits right away. In fact, I had to stop fighting in the beginning long enough to type to my friends about the alarming discovery.
Sigh, how did that get past development?
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An entertaining read, even though I disagree with some points!
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"Who cares?" is not an argument. The story was still bad, whether you cared or not. Stop using that "argument" as if it had anything to do with the issue.
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On May 22 2012 21:33 Osmoses wrote:
"Who cares?" is not an argument. The story was still bad, whether you cared or not. Stop using that "argument" as if it had anything to do with the issue.
His idea was that the story wasn't the focus of the game. I think that Gheed was trying to point out that enjoying a good storyline has never really been Diablo's focus, compared to hackoslashobuttonmasho gameplay.
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On May 22 2012 21:33 Osmoses wrote:
"Who cares?" is not an argument. The story was still bad, whether you cared or not. Stop using that "argument" as if it had anything to do with the issue.
If you're a movie reviewer, do you give a movie 1/10 because it lacked interactivity? I doubt it. You have to evaluate things for what they are. Diablo 3 is a hack n slash, it focuses on mashing tons of enemies and getting gear, just like its predecesors. You might feel it would be awesome if the game had a really deep story as well, but that's not something you can fault the game for lacking, there are other games where story is a focus, go praise those instead.
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On May 22 2012 19:41 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 19:13 sc4k wrote:On May 22 2012 16:12 lpstroggoz wrote:
my thoughts on diablo 3:
story sucked
music sucked
no awesome gothic theme like in diablo 1.
i actually knew diablo 3 was going to suck in these areas before i bought it, i was hoping the game would excell in other areas, but it failed alot in other areas too.
hardly any gameplay improvements from diablo 2, it's pretty much the same game.
the few improvements are the spells and abilities, and runes or skilltrees ect are better designed than diablo 2. And interface is better as well obviously. So, hacking and slashing aspect flows better than in D2 imo. Apart from that though the game is garbage.
Remember back to diablo 1 and diablo 2, and remember the difference between those games. Now think of the difference between D2 and D3.
The same goes for brood war and starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was pretty much the same game as brood war, except with worse story/ singleplayer and better interface.
How the hell does these games take 5+ years to make? You could write the entire story/script for diablo 3 in one day.
Thanks for this post, just been waiting for someone who isn't trying to justify spending money/time/hope on diablo 3 and is honestly looking at the game from a player's perspective. Gheed and others have been close to swaying me to buy the game but now I will hold strong and not buy it until it is cheap. What's your reason to value his post higher than the OP? The OP is well written and in-depth, while his post is... well, yeah. The game is awesome, but anyone who doesn't want to buy it can obviously just listen to haters, but you don't need people on this forum for that, just go to metacritic if you're looking for overly negative opinions.
Wait I said that Gheed and others have been CLOSE to swaying me. I didn't bomb out Gheed's arguments, other than the story one. I think he makes some good points. However I disagree that it's well-written. But what I do value is the ability of someone who has spent money on a game to point out its weaknesses and say it wasn't worth the money. I always look for good quality fans' reviews and look for the negatives, and see if they are things I would care about. For example I am a huge huge die hard Deus Ex fan, I have a tattoo on my calf of the logo. And I will be the first to admit that Deus Ex 3 is nothing even remotely comparable in quality to Deus Ex.
Also size of blog does not necessarily = quality or usefulness. And unfortunately I just have a gut feeling that a lot of people are still trying to make themselves believe they have spent their hope and money and time well. From the start of seeing the graphics and finding out they were getting rid of arguably the best player character in video gaming history (necromancer), through the journey of various revelations to finally seeing the finished article on youtube videos, I have to say that, although not completely disappointed in how it turned out, I am not very pleased at the final product.
This seems to be like another game where the designers don't seem to have been all die-hard diablo fans, or at least there has been some malign influence somewhere along the creative process perhaps by Activision-Blizzard higher ups. In all honesty it generally is hard to find sequels which live up to or surpass their predecessor. Diablo 2 was perhaps one of the best examples for disproving that general rule. GTA has been a series which consistently produces very high quality sequels too. Warcraft 3 was a great step forward from 2. Red Alert 2 brought a lot of new stuff to the table when compared to 1. However, unfortunately I think that Diablo 3 is destined in the future to be regarded as a less than successful sequel, maybe comparable to Deus Ex 3 actually. And yes I'm sorry to say but I will happily put SC2 in that category too.
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On May 22 2012 22:22 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 21:33 Osmoses wrote:
"Who cares?" is not an argument. The story was still bad, whether you cared or not. Stop using that "argument" as if it had anything to do with the issue. If you're a movie reviewer, do you give a movie 1/10 because it lacked interactivity? I doubt it. You have to evaluate things for what they are. Diablo 3 is a hack n slash, it focuses on mashing tons of enemies and getting gear, just like its predecesors. You might feel it would be awesome if the game had a really deep story as well, but that's not something you can fault the game for lacking, there are other games where story is a focus, go praise those instead.
I'm not saying the game is terrible because the story sucked. I'm saying the story sucked. I'm also saying that "who cares" is in no way a counterargument to that statement.
Personally I didn't care for the gameplay either, but I know alot of people enjoy it so I supposed that's totally subjective. But the story is objectively shit. It didn't break the game, but it didn't exactly help either.
Here's an anology: you're watching a movie. A hobo in the row behind you suddenly soils himself and starts yelling about Jesus. You might say that the hobo wasn't really part of the movie itself, but that doesn't change the fact that your evening is ruined.
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On May 22 2012 16:12 lpstroggoz wrote:
my thoughts on diablo 3:
story sucked
music sucked
no awesome gothic theme like in diablo 1.
i actually knew diablo 3 was going to suck in these areas before i bought it, i was hoping the game would excell in other areas, but it failed alot in other areas too.
hardly any gameplay improvements from diablo 2, it's pretty much the same game.
the few improvements are the spells and abilities, and runes or skilltrees ect are better designed than diablo 2. And interface is better as well obviously. So, hacking and slashing aspect flows better than in D2 imo. Apart from that though the game is garbage.
Remember back to diablo 1 and diablo 2, and remember the difference between those games. Now think of the difference between D2 and D3.
The same goes for brood war and starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was pretty much the same game as brood war, except with worse story/ singleplayer and better interface.
How the hell does these games take 5+ years to make? You could write the entire story/script for diablo 3 in one day.
Hmm differences between D2 and D3:
-skill/stat system
-inventory changes
-AH
-gold is actually worth somethign
-different quest system
-professions for crafting
Differences between BW and SC2:
-macro mechanics (chrono/queen/MULE)
-matchmaking system
-multiple building selection
-auto mining
-different units
-Did you really expect SC2 to be some completely different game?
I see lots of things different, but obviously some of it is gonna be similar otherwise they wouldn't call it a sequel
Look at any sequel game and it's going to be the same. All the pokemon games, you're still training pokemon. All the GTA games, you're still just running around robbing people and stealing cars. Your point about the games being the same is irrelevant especially when they are tons of differences between the games
Also, go write me a story for Diablo 4 in one day and let me laugh at it
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On May 22 2012 06:24 Crazyseal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 03:41 Heh_ wrote:On May 22 2012 03:32 Crazyseal wrote:On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example). 1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem. 2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then? 3).... what? 4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game. If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one's forcing you to play it. If you wanted A, B and C but got A, B and D, either suck it up or find a game that fulfills your criteria. If you got D, E and F instead, it's your fault for buying a game without any prior research. Im not saying anyone is forcing me to play it im giving you my opinion on the game. And its not my fault, as i did research it and i dident buy it tyvm.
What you did goes something like this: I don't play baseball (or whatever game you desire), but I read up the wikipedia article about it. Turns out that I find the game dumb and boring (without watching a single game), and then proceed to criticize it all over the forums because people throw the ball instead of kicking it around, because they shouldn't use a baseball bat but a sledgehammer instead... the list of potential (absurd) criticisms goes on.
So you didn't buy it. Then why even bother making a long critique about a game which you're not gonna play? I didn't buy ME3 but I'm not gonna shit on it about its bad ending because I NEVER PLAYED IT.
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exactly my thoughts, great blog
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oh god this is awesome, laughed and laughed, and then agreed.
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regardless people will always complain and its actually really annoys me. the only problem i have with diablo is the servers. but im sure it will all change . but thats it. people always have to be mad or something.
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I like the part where some of your counter-arguments were simply "no you're stupid!"
The online DRM and the fact that the story was about an hour long (and predictable as all hell) are the parts that I hate
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Nice read, agree with most your points. Except, god damnit, I made a Windy Druid work in Hell difficulty hardcore and could solo no problem!*
* - granted, I was tweaked to hell. But I made it to level 95 in Hardcore with him!
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The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
Don't know about you but I like to take my time to read through everything so I can get deeper in to the story and background of the game so no I don't breeze through everything from point A to point C so I can tell everyone look I am the bad ass in the game and all the gears without even knowing what's happening behind all the action.
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Fucking love your stuff man but this bit is just wrong:
If I wanted to build a trap sin, I had to put 20 points into death sentry, lightning sentry, fire blast, and charged bolt sentry, with 1 point into some utility skills like fade or mind blast. I couldn't decide to go half martial arts and half traps, because if I did, I wouldn't have enough damage to actually kill anything.
If you had picked literally any other hybrid build you'd be correct but kick-trappasin was actually a great build if you just kicked the shit out of things and used the death sentries to blow everything up.
Here is a great guide for it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/370600-diablo-ii-lord-of-destruction/faqs/40307
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I agree with most of the things, but some D2 things aren't right.
On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
I hate the items! Rares are as good as uniques and set items!
Uh, good? Do you know how fucking boring the game was when everyone had the same items? Once you got "the items," you were done. You could build every single caster with hoto/enigmia/spirit shield/shaco/war travs/mara's/2xsoj. And, because of a combination of duping and forum gold, they were incredibly easy to obtain, and thus incredibly boring. On the other hand, the most exciting parts of Diablo 2 was hunting for a godly bow skills dual leech gloves, or a pcomb with a good affix. Those were the items that were worth the most money, and they weren't set items or rune words. By not making Uniques the be-all and end-all, it means you're never "done" with items, which, for a game like Diablo, is a good thing. I remember the first time that I was "done." I quit the game until the next ladder reset. The moments of "oh boy, my pshaco has a ber in it now," or "hey, my hoto rolled a 40" was not the peak of my enjoyment of the game, despite it being the peak of my character's power.
Try to get all the items by yourself, you'll NEVER be "done". I played D2 for a while, and never ever found any high rune. I don't even want to think about the time needed to have 7 caracters with all the rune worlds on them
On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
Nearly everyone used act 2 mercs because they could wield insight polearms (as well as infinity if you had lots of cash for an eth 4os cv to put it in).
Wtf dude !
People were choosing those merco because they had good auras (and fight/agroo decently).
The runes word works on their weapon because everyone were already choosing them (you take them anyway even if you haven't any good runeword).
On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
Every diablo 2 character (with the exception of hammerdins) has to design themselves around immunities instead of which skill they like using the most. Now you can just play how you want.
My necro invoc wants to talk to you .
btw hammedrin can't beat some monster in act 3
On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
How many sad saps did you see making windy druids only for them to realize that they suck absolute shit in Hell?
None. 0. Nada.
Wind druids works well in hell.(maybe not well for your standards, but you can solo hell without too much trouble)
Fire durid are shitty :D.
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guild wars 2 bro. thats some real innovation
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I really enjoyed your random views on D3 :D
I'm currently working my way through Nightmare mode with 3 other friends (WTF Blizzard 4 people max party really!?) as a witch doctor and I really enjoy that style of play. I was a necro and druid in D2 and Warlock in WoW so that style of play really fits well with what I like to do.
I'm also grouping up with 1 or 2 other friends as I play other characters but my biggest compliant is the lack of a 5 party group T_T Maybe in the D3 expansion we will get more people to a group
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On May 21 2012 17:58 TheKefka wrote:Story spoilers I guess + Show Spoiler +As far as the story goes I will never forgive blizzard for killing of Cain in such a pussy way.He didn't even get a epic death or a cinematic(well I guess that little cut scene when tyrael and leah are at his grave but meh) or anything,he just died like a bitch.Probably the most iconic character in the diablo universe aside from diablo and tyrael maybe to get such a pitiful death is just disgusting. I agree on normal being too easy.In d2 normal you could easily die to duriel the first time you fell down into his hole and it was like "o shit this bitch hits hard."I never came close to dying on a normal boss,hell,trash packs were easier to die on. The combat is pretty good tho I have to give that to blizzard.Feels beefy and much much better than in previous games.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm pretty sure that Diablo has tits because of Andariel - another prime evil, inside himself he has all demons mixed afterall
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I might actually buy the game now.
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8748 Posts
On May 22 2012 04:23 Lexpar wrote:
So by "polemical" you mean "run your mouth off at people who disagree with you"? Just checking to make sure we're on the same page.
It is common for people to review games keeping in mind that other people may prioritize and care about features of the game differently. This review purposely doesn't do that. It is saying "I'm right and you're wrong."
We could probably all agree that this style isn't appropriate for a proper review of a game but it does serve its purpose in a personal blog. At least until people who have no idea what they're reading feel compelled to respond. But such absurdity can be found everywhere.
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Haha, enjoyed every bit of this review! 5/5!!!
PS: Please don't worker rush me...
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With regards to the Blizzard reps response. I'm very opposed to gear being the be all, end all of any hack and slash game. I think Developers do this waaay to often; however, they have to generate a grind of some type to keep the players playing.
I would love to see these type of games become more dynamic than the same old, same old. Not to say I didn't play the other ones a ton because I did, but it just feels like something else is missing.
I'm still looking for a hack and slash that truly lets a player show off their skill rather than being too dependant on item farming.
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On May 23 2012 05:00 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 04:23 Lexpar wrote:
So by "polemical" you mean "run your mouth off at people who disagree with you"? Just checking to make sure we're on the same page. It is common for people to review games keeping in mind that other people may prioritize and care about features of the game differently. This review purposely doesn't do that. It is saying "I'm right and you're wrong." We could probably all agree that this style isn't appropriate for a proper review of a game but it does serve its purpose in a personal blog. At least until people who have no idea what they're reading feel compelled to respond. But such absurdity can be found everywhere.
By the way, NonY, not sure if you should be flattered or insulted, but I totally saw a guy running around with your name today. Maybe a little of both.
On May 23 2012 05:17 StarStruck wrote:
With regards to the Blizzard reps response. I'm very opposed to gear being the be all, end all of any hack and slash game. I think Developers do this waaay to often; however, they have to generate a grind of some type to keep the players playing.
I would love to see these type of games become more dynamic than the same old, same old. Not to say I didn't play the other ones a ton because I did, but it just feels like something else is missing.
I'm still looking for a hack and slash that truly lets a player show off their skill rather than being too dependant on item farming.
Try Gauntlet. The original one.
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Great blog, as usual. Can wait to get to get a new computer that can handle the game (in 6 years or so...)
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You haven't even fucking played Diablo, how the hell can you sit there on your high horse with your condescending tone and proclaim how people are wrong for disliking Diablo 3. All you keep doing is compare it to Diablo 2, YOU HAVENT EVEN PLAYED THE ORIGINAL MY GOD. You wouldn't bring up any of those points if you did. Even though it's probably a troll, this blog is making me furious. You're the reason Blizzard won't make good games anymore.
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On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
I've been enjoying Diablo 3, but rather than review it normally, I'd rather launch into a series of straw man arguments. So, without further ado, I present to you: A Polemical Diablo 3 Review. Within, I will list a series of common complaints with the game and then explain why the people who have those complaints are stupid.
...
Achievements are stupid!
So don't do them.
...
Yes, people are stupid ! Don't ever complain about something you paid money for, numb nutz!
Shouldn't expect anything else from someone named "Gheed" , I identified this blog post and turns out it was but a gray "0/5 blog post".
Waste of gold I tell ya.
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My biggest complaint is that when I move skills on my skill bar (not change them, just switch the hotkey) it adds a cooldown. Also, I can't change the hotkeys when they're on CD. WTF? Makes no sense at all....
Overall, I'm enjoying the game. Got a DH into A2 NM and a HC WD through A2. Good times!
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On May 23 2012 02:08 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Nice read, agree with most your points. Except, god damnit, I made a Windy Druid work in Hell difficulty hardcore and could solo no problem!*
* - granted, I was tweaked to hell. But I made it to level 95 in Hardcore with him!
Seriously, that's perverse. A hurrican druid was my first high-level D2 character, and by the time I hit hell, I was very sad. I was basically a Oak Sage bot for my party. >_<
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United States7483 Posts
Hey man, don't shit on my Bioware games >_>.
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On May 23 2012 05:00 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 04:23 Lexpar wrote:
So by "polemical" you mean "run your mouth off at people who disagree with you"? Just checking to make sure we're on the same page. It is common for people to review games keeping in mind that other people may prioritize and care about features of the game differently. This review purposely doesn't do that. It is saying "I'm right and you're wrong." We could probably all agree that this style isn't appropriate for a proper review of a game but it does serve its purpose in a personal blog. At least until people who have no idea what they're reading feel compelled to respond. But such absurdity can be found everywhere.
Satire. Its funny. And many people agree with most of his points to varying degrees.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On May 23 2012 06:05 Whitewing wrote:
Hey man, don't shit on my Bioware games >_>.
The way they've been doing things lately, it's not uncalled for.
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United States7483 Posts
On May 23 2012 06:08 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 06:05 Whitewing wrote:
Hey man, don't shit on my Bioware games >_>. The way they've been doing things lately, it's not uncalled for.
Maybe, but he shat on the very concept of what they aim for, not the quality of the ME3 ending or Dragon Age 2, but the entire idea of having a story driven game with dialogue.
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One would think that after a person reads the heading "Forum Index > Blogs" that said person would surmise that this was, in fact, a blog. As a blog, one would assume that anyone reading it would acknowledge that the opinions and thoughts contained therein were those solely of the creator of the blog. Further, when such a blog was entitled "polemical," and, in the very first paragraph, professed itself to contain a "series of straw man arguments" about how a group of people were "stupid," one would imagine that those people purported to be stupid would simply not read the blog. Instead, they choose to read the entire thing, become angered, and then feel obligated to post their dissent, rather than simply ignoring it in the first place, perhaps affirming the blog author's initial stance on their stupidity.
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to.
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On May 23 2012 06:16 Gheed wrote:
One would think that after a person reads the heading "Forum Index > Blogs" that said person would surmise that this was, in fact, a blog. As a blog, one would assume that anyone reading it would acknowledge that the opinions and thoughts contained therein were those solely of the creator of the blog. Further, when such a blog was entitled "polemical," and, in the very first paragraph, professed itself to contain a "series of straw man arguments" about how a group of people were "stupid," one would imagine that those people purported to be stupid would simply not read the blog. Instead, they choose to read the entire thing, become angered, and then feel obligated to post their dissent, rather than simply ignoring it in the first place, perhaps affirming the blog author's initial stance on their stupidity.
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to.
I for one didn't even know what the Diablo 2 story was. Just played the game for what it was and had a blast. Could it be that people complaining about the story only liked it because 10 years ago they were probably a teenager? I sometimes see cartoons on TV that I used to love as a child and I think they're complete shit now
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On May 23 2012 06:23 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 06:16 Gheed wrote:
One would think that after a person reads the heading "Forum Index > Blogs" that said person would surmise that this was, in fact, a blog. As a blog, one would assume that anyone reading it would acknowledge that the opinions and thoughts contained therein were those solely of the creator of the blog. Further, when such a blog was entitled "polemical," and, in the very first paragraph, professed itself to contain a "series of straw man arguments" about how a group of people were "stupid," one would imagine that those people purported to be stupid would simply not read the blog. Instead, they choose to read the entire thing, become angered, and then feel obligated to post their dissent, rather than simply ignoring it in the first place, perhaps affirming the blog author's initial stance on their stupidity.
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to. I for one didn't even know what the Diablo 2 story was. Just played the game for what it was and had a blast. Could it be that people complaining about the story only liked it because 10 years ago they were probably a teenager? I sometimes see cartoons on TV that I used to love as a child and I think they're complete shit now
Yep the nostalgia factor. It's really hard to properly compare 2 things if one is from your past, people tend to remember things better or worse than they actually were.
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Canada11350 Posts
On May 23 2012 06:23 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 06:16 Gheed wrote:
One would think that after a person reads the heading "Forum Index > Blogs" that said person would surmise that this was, in fact, a blog. As a blog, one would assume that anyone reading it would acknowledge that the opinions and thoughts contained therein were those solely of the creator of the blog. Further, when such a blog was entitled "polemical," and, in the very first paragraph, professed itself to contain a "series of straw man arguments" about how a group of people were "stupid," one would imagine that those people purported to be stupid would simply not read the blog. Instead, they choose to read the entire thing, become angered, and then feel obligated to post their dissent, rather than simply ignoring it in the first place, perhaps affirming the blog author's initial stance on their stupidity.
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to. I for one didn't even know what the Diablo 2 story was. Just played the game for what it was and had a blast. Could it be that people complaining about the story only liked it because 10 years ago they were probably a teenager? I sometimes see cartoons on TV that I used to love as a child and I think they're complete shit now
I don't think so. I just played through both in the last year or so for the first time. I haven't played D3 so I can't comment on D3's story. However, I actually really enjoyed the story/ atmosphere. Sure it wasn't super detailed or complex. It was minimal story telling, but it felt epic and dark. I am not a grinder and I do play games for stories. And somehow D1 and D2 efficiently told a story that left me wanting to know more. Much more, but it was well told. D1's writings of the Archbishop's slow descent into corruption were sooo chilling. "My lord said to me..."
I don't know, I like to think I have a good imagination and there was something about D1 and D2 that had my brain firing on all cylinders. Now mind you D1 was very hacky/slashy in some parts and I admit to listening to some podcasts and/or SotG while playing. But whenever the story stuff would come up, I'd shut that all off and turn up the sound and music.
Unfortunately even D2's expansion already had some pretty generic fantasy soundtracks compared to D1 and D2's cool combination of steel guitars, electric guitars and classical music. Matt Uelmen was awesome.
I have no idea what D3 is like except the little Beta I played, but I don't think D1 and D2 story is just a matter of nostalgia. Minimal story, sure. Stupid story? No. And really there's not too much popular dark fantasy out there. Closest I can find is maybe Solomon Kane or Constantine?
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I was never too into Diablo 2, pretty much only played it in the past 2 months. But I like Diablo 3 a lot so far and I love your review of Diablo 3
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Thank you for this. Quite enjoyable and summarized my musings on a few petty complaints perfectly.
Though I will say, I agree and disagree with you about the Doctor. Witch Doctor right now is my most progressed character (not entirely by choice but by the group of friends I began leveling with) and while I have fallen in love with the character himself and the utility of the class, there are a few things about it that just bother me. Things that, done properly, could have made him so much more fun. I hate pulling the necromancer comparison (after all, what have we learned if not "they're different games!") but there are subtle things that felt right about that class that could have enhanced the gameplay of the WD without changing it dramatically. The fact that, depending on the class(es) or how many players, I often find myself having more fun alone than in a group, is kind of disappointing.
But really though. Hilarious and accurate, 5/5 I love Gheed blogs
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Of course you don't need a story to have a good game. You're perfectly within your rights to not care about the story if you don't want to. But there are plenty of us that DO care about the story. They could've made a hack n' slash game with 0 story and it would've been a good game. However they did put in a story, so why did they put in such a shit one? Plenty of games would've been good without a story, for example if Portal or Bioshock didn't have a story (or as good a story), they still would've been good games. However their story made them great games. There's absolutely no reason Blizzard couldn't have spent more time on the story to make it actually good, rather than a half assed rehash of all their other stories.
If story doesn't matter to you, that's fine. But people like me who complain about the shit story because it could've been a good story, but it wasn't. All your other points I agree with because they're what make it a good Diablo game. Having a shit story doesn't make it a better Diablo game, and for a lot of us it makes it a worse one.
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On May 22 2012 18:37 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 17:03 Emnjay808 wrote:On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
I hate the items! Rares are as good as uniques and set items!
Uh, good? Do you know how fucking boring the game was when everyone had the same items? Once you got "the items," you were done. You could build every single caster with hoto/enigmia/spirit shield/shaco/war travs/mara's/2xsoj. And, because of a combination of duping and forum gold, they were incredibly easy to obtain, and thus incredibly boring. On the other hand, the most exciting parts of Diablo 2 was hunting for a godly bow skills dual leech gloves, or a pcomb with a good affix. Those were the items that were worth the most money, and they weren't set items or rune words. By not making Uniques the be-all and end-all, it means you're never "done" with items, which, for a game like Diablo, is a good thing. I remember the first time that I was "done." I quit the game until the next ladder reset. The moments of "oh boy, my pshaco has a ber in it now," or "hey, my hoto rolled a 40" was not the peak of my enjoyment of the game, despite it being the peak of my character's power.
Couldnt agree with this part the most. I really enjoy hunting down dat 700+dps 100 vit/str 1-hander. Everytime I ID a weap I always hold my breathe lol. Having the game dictated by "godly" uniques and sets isnt the way to go. Very boring. There's not really any hunting with the auction house though. You just farm gold and then go buy whatever you want off the auction house...
Fair enough. Mostly everything I would think that is "godly" prolly wont be in a couple weeks or so. But when we get to the point where the game has matured abit, and people start to get those near perfectly rolled items. Then thats when it gets interesting.
Perfect items would prolly go for a fortune on AH, assuming they were to sell it and not use it for themselves.
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Even though I agree with most of the opinions in your post, every addressed point can be summed up as: "I disagree and you're an idiot."
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On May 22 2012 08:31 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 06:55 EatThePath wrote:On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell. Equal opportunity demon possession. Am I the only one who thought this was cool? edit: About the story... For the record I agree with Gheed in principle because that's how I view Diablo as a vehicle for storytelling and a game experience, but I also agree with those who criticize his anti-anti-story rant as misguided and subpar. I just wanted to make one point. The narrative complexity in the Diablo games progresses in each addition to the series, but the presentation gets increasingly unhinged from the essence of the narrative that is being expressed. If you break down the story elements into the major plot points and analyze like a script writer, clearly D3 has the best story -- it has true tragedy, comedy that illuminates the world and characters, and thematic meat on its hero vs evil bones. But when you play the game, clearly it has the most unengaging, hokey, and audience-dissonant story. Why? It's transparently the same syndrome as most modern games: too many people working in disjointed chunks that produce an incoherent puddle of "assets" as opposed to something with personality, structure, and overarching presence. Every line is spoonfed to you to drive home the significance of what is happening!. Following the story is like going through an inventory line by line of all the reasons why you're doing this quest right now. News flash: every quest in every game ever is a kill the bad guy or fetch quest, spatial objectives being an offshoot of the latter. I am not looking for motivation, I am looking for spirit and mood as conveyed through goings-on, extra credit for philosophical waxing in the rafters. Unforetunately, the only soul to be found is whatever you can find in the corners in glowing granuals, piecemeal and scanty. Or whatever you dream up for yourself while you roam the desert listening to the adventure music. Wha? How is that different from D2 or whatever? It just seems like the story has way more personality, immersion, and coherence than any of the previous games. I'm sorry, but I really don't understand complaints against the story. If anything the story may just be harder to ignore, which is pretty odd complaint. The only other complaint that seems valid to me is the personality of my character. I mean my character just seems a little too badass, like we've gone beyond Chuck Norris levels here.
I think you may have read my post in the light of something you thought I was saying that I wasn't. Not sure. But.
I agree that D2 had good story elements too, but it was much simpler and amounted to NPC one-liners, and act cutscenes. Everything else was just world flavour. In fact, I enjoy the D2 story more, and the D1 story the most. This is because it grabs you and slowly unfolds. In D3 you are beaten over the head with details that don't matter, instead of given opportunities to learn more about the world. However the D1 story is simplistic and structurally boring. It's just told with a certain amount of grace and skill. The D3 story comes at you in an unending stream so you end up overfed on things you weren't really hungry for. The best part is the way the environments convey information (and mood). It has problems with pacing, mystery, and introducing new characters. This is probably because the main story is Tyrael, and everything else is just an excuse to fill up 4 acts and give you quests to do. Leah was supposed to be the main character but the game never commits to giving her a real condition; she is presented as a plot device from the very beginning.
Hero (to him/herself): Here I am at Tristram, gotta find me that fallen star!
walks down the road to the first skirmish
Rumford: You're looking for the fallen star? Talk to Leah.
And so on for the rest of the game.
It's a shame, because Leah's story could be really compelling, but it's never the focus of the storytelling as much as the focus of the questing. This might be confusing because Leah features prominently throughout the game (as much as anyone else), but ask yourself how often you really care what Leah is going through compared to what it means for your anticipation of oncoming setbacks to your progress. And the way it all ends is like, well that was that! Which is odd because they go to the trouble of making game assets for an iconic returning titular final boss (no pun intended) that reflect the fate of the would-be main character, such as it is. But that "fateful" conclusion has no more carry than the shitty blue Diablo dropped that you salvage immediately if you even bothered to pick it up, when you could have been left dazed by the tragedy ringing in your ears, which you yourself put the capstone on.
This might be the biggest letdown of the story, because it ties the 3 games together intimately in facts, but fails to do so with any convincing emotion. This is why I say it has the best story technically, but the worst story in terms of player experience. I really like it for what it could have been.
Whoever that is railing on the writer should consider this. edit: Aylear
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Diablo III follows a trend that Blizzard has been embarking upon lately which is that their games are still very good relative to what's being created by other companies, but poor when compared to the quality of their old titles. Cataclysm, Starcraft II, and now Diablo III all have followed this trend. Diablo III is a great game, but when you compare it to Diablo II it's really disappointing in a lot of areas. There's a lot of poor design in the game, and I really don't think it has half the staying power of Diablo II.
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I know a lot of people don't really care about the story, but the OP should avoid spoilers in your post, especially in a review .
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Great read . . i dont want to add to your aspirin addiction ^^
I think the game is really boring, i am over 30 years old and bought the other two when i was just a lad. This type of game doesnt hold up well with me anymore i got quick fixes, and i do mean quick with the xboxlive titles like torchwood and that other one that came out shortly after . . .bah, what a waste of points cant even remember the name.
I agree with everything you actually said but there is one thing you didnt address. The game IS boring. LoL seems to have taken the d3/wc3 idea and made it into 30 minute short bursts. This is what i think D3 should have done, overwhelming mobs, not just a trickle of a few which if ur playing range like me, splash is all you need. i dont feel like im employing any tactics just watching health, moving back, holding shift and left clicking and grinding up my money and then spamming pots. Ive never fallen asleep playing a game before but D3 had me doing that . . .there was no one more game feel here.
the comparing it with wow idea tho ive got to say ive never come across and i did get sucked in with the hype, diablo is a great game, or at least i remembered it to be! Anyone who says this is like wow needs their head testing, i dont get that . . i suppose COD is like Gears in that respect . . .i hate them both . . halo is the only fps you need to play. anyway
yeah, game is boring, i keep playing it cos im in a love affair with blizz, great games, good times and the fact that it was a shaky start should be totally overlooked. If the game wasnt so damn popular we wouldnt be talking about it now and it may only create a poisonous feel in the devs minds as they clearly worked hard on this
Its a good game in all just really boring!
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I appreciate your review. Except your bit about the story. For a game that has been developed this long, and also since Blizzard has established a history putting a lot of thought into their writing in the past, there is no excuse for the game to be lacking in this department... in any department really.
I say it literally.. and it's sort of fitting that I use a cliche expression to do so... 13 year olds could (and have) written better dialogue.
No pvp, auction house, game breaking errors at launch.. This whole thing seems rushed in the final stages of development... Blizzard drifts further and further away from their old selves IMO. It's more about the cash grab and that means you cut corners where you can... not hiring a decent writer in a game that presents itself as an rpg? tsk tsk...
BTW can someone PM me a guest pass? I would be extremely grateful
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On May 23 2012 15:35 thepuppyassassin wrote:
I appreciate your review. Except your bit about the story. For a game that has been developed this long, and also since Blizzard has established a history putting a lot of thought into their writing in the past, there is no excuse for the game to be lacking in this department... in any department really.
I say it literally.. and it's sort of fitting that I use a cliche expression to do so... 13 year olds could (and have) written better dialogue.
No pvp, auction house, game breaking errors at launch.. This whole thing seems rushed in the final stages of development... Blizzard drifts further and further away from their old selves IMO. It's more about the cash grab and that means you cut corners where you can... not hiring a decent writer in a game that presents itself as an rpg? tsk tsk...
BTW can someone PM me a guest pass? I would be extremely grateful
Actually, Blizzard has always had really shitty storylines in all their universes. Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo plots are basically the distillation of every single bad fantasy/sci-fi novel out there. Don't get me wrong, they tried to do cool things with the characters and they did have some potentially good storylines going on, but their plots have never been all that special, and they dropped the ball every time they actually caught it. Warcraft was actually surprisingly good/engaging (for being cliche) until they released WoW and shit over everything, SC was surprisingly good/engaging (for being cliche) until they decided to make Raynor pine after Kerrigan (lolol), so I'm not surprised with what they did here.
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On May 22 2012 23:06 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:22 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 21:33 Osmoses wrote:
"Who cares?" is not an argument. The story was still bad, whether you cared or not. Stop using that "argument" as if it had anything to do with the issue. If you're a movie reviewer, do you give a movie 1/10 because it lacked interactivity? I doubt it. You have to evaluate things for what they are. Diablo 3 is a hack n slash, it focuses on mashing tons of enemies and getting gear, just like its predecesors. You might feel it would be awesome if the game had a really deep story as well, but that's not something you can fault the game for lacking, there are other games where story is a focus, go praise those instead. I'm not saying the game is terrible because the story sucked. I'm saying the story sucked. I'm also saying that "who cares" is in no way a counterargument to that statement. Personally I didn't care for the gameplay either, but I know alot of people enjoy it so I supposed that's totally subjective. But the story is objectively shit. It didn't break the game, but it didn't exactly help either. Here's an anology: you're watching a movie. A hobo in the row behind you suddenly soils himself and starts yelling about Jesus. You might say that the hobo wasn't really part of the movie itself, but that doesn't change the fact that your evening is ruined.
Your analogy works for that situation, but we're talking people who loved D2 and dislike the story in D3 and whine about it. Which is like going to a movie expecting it to be interactable, but still loving it when it turns out it isn't, because that's not what movies do. Then going to see the sequel, and getting pissed off that it isn't interactable.
The story in D3 is fine. It's not a good story, it doesn't compare to the story of storydriven games such as mass effect, but it works. It doesn't ruin the game, and it's not a detriment to the game, it's just something which could definitely be improved. This is identical to D2, only that there's at least more story in D3. Yet people love on D2 and hate on D3, which literally makes no sense at all.
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The last two points are my favourites
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Missing criticism:
OMG! Diablo 3 came out just before exams period for me
I havent played any of the Diablo games but I was excited as hell until the release date came out.
Great blog though Really enjoyed the humourous parts and made me more excited about when my exams finish...
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I think the best comparison for people complaining about the story in D3 is probably to ask what they thought about the story in the movie The Expendables. (I've heard people complain about that, too, sadly.)
If you came expecting the story to be more than the thematic gameplay elements held together with packing tape and cliche, you may have been in the wrong theater. D3's storytelling may be predictable, disjointed, and as neurotic as a hamster on speed, but the elements themselves aren't terrible. Just overused.
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Gheed, you speak my mind. Massive 5/5!!
LOL @ WTF Diablo has tits! Indeed why does Diablo, the Lord of Terror, the Prime Evil and the TITLE OF THE FRANCHISE look less intimidating, is smaller, and has the most lame skill set out of all the act bosses? At least Belial went huge and started dumping nasty goo all over the stage while swinging its massive hard-scale arms (pretty intimidating IMO), Azmodan had nothing but at least he was fat like a boss should be. Butcher was scary as fuck because of D1 memories and also he has nasty hooks and hooks are scary (hello Dota). Diablo... makes you fight shadow versions of yourselves, hurray!
I like the game so far, but inferno is sooo broken and shielding molten frozen waller damage reflect arcane vortex teleport extra fast plague elite mobs are so lame. huehuehuehue
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One criticism you missed is that yet again, Australians and anyone else with latency upwards of 300ms gets the big ol' fist. I'm a hardcore player and both of my hardcore characters have been killed in disconnect related accidents before I can even get into nightmare mode.
I understand the logistics about why Australia can't have a local server and I'm not demanding one, but its undeniable that we get fucked over this DRM thing.
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Moar complaints. NO GHEED IN D3!
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On May 23 2012 06:16 Gheed wrote:
One would think that after a person reads the heading "Forum Index > Blogs" that said person would surmise that this was, in fact, a blog. As a blog, one would assume that anyone reading it would acknowledge that the opinions and thoughts contained therein were those solely of the creator of the blog. Further, when such a blog was entitled "polemical," and, in the very first paragraph, professed itself to contain a "series of straw man arguments" about how a group of people were "stupid," one would imagine that those people purported to be stupid would simply not read the blog. Instead, they choose to read the entire thing, become angered, and then feel obligated to post their dissent, rather than simply ignoring it in the first place, perhaps affirming the blog author's initial stance on their stupidity.
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to.
Have my babies bud.
Seriously tho, everything you write is goldmine of win and own.
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On May 24 2012 02:15 TheDougler wrote:
The major point of contention seems to be the story, but let's be honest. Were the people I was power trading with interested in the story? Did the crafters I traded sets of 40 perfect rubies or amethysts for Pul runes care about the story? Did high school me care about the story when I stocked up on Mountain Dew and leveled new characters with my friends? Did the people glitch rushing for hell forges worry about the story? Did the people who PK'd in Baal runs worry about how their actions would affect the demise of the Lord of Destruction?
No. The people who cared the most about Diablo 2 were the ones that cared least about its story. The ones that care about the story are transient. They play a few times and then they drift to another game with another story. The grinders, the farmers, the power traders, those are the ones that give the game its longevity, and they are the ones the game is designed to cater to.
What the hell, the fact that you spend ages grinding to get better gear, which is essentially just catering to your innate desire to make up for failures in your person by compensating with objects, automatically overrides the fact that someone else enjoys the story immensely?
Diablo 1 and 2 were religions for me, I played them very regularly, all the way through the story like 6 or 7 times for each game. I also did power grinding and had a 92 CS zon and 96 summon necro, and I can honestly say that the latter part was immensely inferior in terms of memorable gaming experiences. In many ways I feel ashamed for wasting time on the latter. I feel nothing but good ol' nostalgia for the experience of entering Andariel's lair for the first time and literally having to pause the game because I was shaking so much.
People who invested a lot of emotion into the story and the mystique of the dark atmosphere had just as much invested in the game as those who grinded for years not caring about the story at all. If Diablo 3 caters to the grinders, then good for you, but for people like me who only spend time on games like this if they have a good story and good visuals have a legitimate issue with the game if our desires are not met.
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Honestly, I just get bored with this game; really fast.
Same thing happened with D2 as well--never even got past act II.
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On May 24 2012 06:10 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Honestly, I just get bored with this game; really fast.
Same thing happened with D2 as well--never even got past act II.
maybe it's just not your cup of tea, simple. I can understand if someone can get bored fast after hours of spamming your mouse.
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On May 24 2012 06:19 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 06:10 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Honestly, I just get bored with this game; really fast.
Same thing happened with D2 as well--never even got past act II. maybe it's just not your cup of tea, simple. I can understand if someone can get bored fast after hours of spamming your mouse.
Its a completely different game lvls 50-60.
Edit: I felt like it was really easy until I got to Hell/Inferno mode, and then I wasn't just mindlessly clicking the shit out of my mouse.
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Just one thing to add to the whole "story sucks" discussion in D3 vs D2. In D2 the story wasn't outstanding, but it was minimal. Getting and finishing most quests required about two clicks + 2 escape key presses of interaction with the NPCs. This meant that when you did the quest again in NM and hell, you could just blaze through all the dialogue portions. So even if the story was downright horrendous, you could choose to be exposed to very little of it, and there were extremely few interruptions in gameplay on account of story.
The problem is twofold in D3. Let's first accept that the story is crap. This would be fine if two things weren't the case: 1) if grinding or clearing areas didn't require you to run through a bunch of cinematics or talk to three different NPCs to progress/get quest rewards, and 2) if quests were less tied to progressing through several parts and interacting with several NPCs to do so.
These two issues make it so that whenever you want to replay a portion to grind or farm some items/gold, you get bombarded with portions of bad story and bad writing via character dialogue in all the unskipable thought bubbles, which just makes it all the more aggravating.
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On May 24 2012 07:09 Vod.kaholic wrote:
Just one thing to add to the whole "story sucks" discussion in D3 vs D2. In D2 the story wasn't outstanding, but it was minimal. Getting and finishing most quests required about two clicks + 2 escape key presses of interaction with the NPCs. This meant that when you did the quest again in NM and hell, you could just blaze through all the dialogue portions. So even if the story was downright horrendous, you could choose to be exposed to very little of it, and there were extremely few interruptions in gameplay on account of story.
The problem is twofold in D3. Let's first accept that the story is crap. This would be fine if two things weren't the case: 1) if grinding or clearing areas didn't require you to run through a bunch of cinematics or talk to three different NPCs to progress/get quest rewards, and 2) if quests were less tied to progressing through several parts and interacting with several NPCs to do so.
These two issues make it so that whenever you want to replay a portion to grind or farm some items/gold, you get bombarded with portions of bad story and bad writing via character dialogue in all the unskipable thought bubbles, which just makes it all the more aggravating.
I can esc skip through everything O.o
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Oh wait, I think I need to disable some settings. Damn. My bad :/
Story is still terrible.
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On May 24 2012 07:17 Vod.kaholic wrote:
Oh wait, I think I need to disable some settings. Damn. My bad :/
Story is still terrible.
There's a story? I thought the dialogue was just Blizzard doing their part with unemployment rates. The rest was cutscenes I haven't watched and thematic elements that would probably have been pretty badass in context. Oh, and that one stupid blatantly obvious plot twist that I didn't hit escape for because I was grabbing food out of the microwave.
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4 person cap has to be the worsttt T___T
Almost as bad as tits
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The 4 person party is still something I think about from time to time. I can't figure out why, really. There are 5 classes. And in today's age of gaming 5 is a popular number. DotA, quite a few other team based games like shooters, even their own WoW is five. Interesting choices....
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On May 24 2012 09:07 Duka08 wrote:
The 4 person party is still something I think about from time to time. I can't figure out why, really. There are 5 classes. And in today's age of gaming 5 is a popular number. DotA, quite a few other team based games like shooters, even their own WoW is five. Interesting choices....
Maybe they're going to port it to the Wii
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I dunno wtf is up with blizzard thinking their "ingame cinematics" are good (death of cain). They have them in sc2 also and it's just freaking bad imo.
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Gheed, I fucking despise you, but you make entertaining blogs. 5/5
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I agree with almost everything, except for the story complaint. I really didn't like the story. There was no cameo of mephisto/baal, and Diablo looked terrible imo. In diablo 2, he had muscles, horns protruding all from his back, sick looking claws, bipedal walking but running on all fours etc. In Diablo 3, he looks more feminine and less badass than ever (and don't give me that "well he came from Leah" crap).
The relationship between the 3 brothers in Diablo 2 was great and was prime lore for the story. Now they come up with Azmodan and Belial, 2 other major evils who seemingly just happened to be bigger than everyone else, and so were thrown into the story. They have little to no relevance to Diablo himself. Diablo, though you know he will show up later in the game, isn't mentioned for 75% of it.
+ Show Spoiler +
Diablo 3 gets rid of the illusion of choice and lets you exercise actual choice by allowing you to pick some skills you find to be your favorite or the most effective. By further allowing you to retrain your skills at any time, it eliminates the "noob trap" element that Diablo 2 had, where a character that appears to work in norm and NM becomes useless in Hell. How many sad saps did you see making windy druids only for them to realize that they suck absolute shit in Hell? If Diablo 2 had the same system Diablo 3 does, those poor druids could have run around with hurricane killing small packs of crappy monsters and then when they found a boss or a tough unique group, they could switch to werewolf form with some life leech to tank them down. Instead, the druid player was just left with a dogshit character and the person ended up just rerolling a meteorb sorc or a hammerdin like 90% of everyone else. If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization.
I also disagree with your post about customization in D2 vs D3, and how you think that there is only 1 or so viable builds for a hell-built character; that every one was just a cookie-cutter build no different from everyone else. Idk how you can say this is any different than D3. You are restricted even less in D3 because the majority of the skills on the characters suck on hell and inferno mode. You are absolutely pidgeon-holed into a single build that everybody HAS to use because nothing else works. Demon Hunter has to rely on their smokescreen + preparation to survive in inferno (but that got nerfed anyways). Wizard had something too but idk what it was, just that it got nerfed as well. Hell, there aren't even any viable builds for the Barbarian on D3 in inferno mode. In D2, I realize that some of the skills weren't optimal to invest in, but there are even less ones in Diablo 3. Idk how you can say "If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization." only applies to Diablo 2, when it certainly (and even more so imo) applies to Diablo 3.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
great write up from someone who really knows the game. appreciated reading it.
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Another good Gheed blog... Still waiting on another installment of the Bronze Blog though
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Diablo has tits - I haven't seen anyone complain specifically about this, but seriously, what the hell. SRSLY. What's with that man. He could have just stayed looking like Diablo instead of "raw I'm all the evils and Andariel had tits so SO DO I" Act 3 is better anyway.
I like the game so far, but inferno is sooo broken and shielding molten frozen waller damage reflect arcane vortex teleport extra fast plague elite mobs are so lame. huehuehuehue And also rhis.
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On May 24 2012 11:58 Epishade wrote:
I also disagree with your post about customization in D2 vs D3, and how you think that there is only 1 or so viable builds for a hell-built character; that every one was just a cookie-cutter build no different from everyone else. Idk how you can say this is any different than D3. You are restricted even less in D3 because the majority of the skills on the characters suck on hell and inferno mode. You are absolutely pidgeon-holed into a single build that everybody HAS to use because nothing else works. Demon Hunter has to rely on their smokescreen + preparation to survive in inferno (but that got nerfed anyways). Wizard had something too but idk what it was, just that it got nerfed as well. Hell, there aren't even any viable builds for the Barbarian on D3 in inferno mode. In D2, I realize that some of the skills weren't optimal to invest in, but there are even less ones in Diablo 3. Idk how you can say "If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization." only applies to Diablo 2, when it certainly (and even more so imo) applies to Diablo 3.
So basically, you're saying that everyone was using cookie cutters in D2 and that they weren't the only viable builds, but D3 has no variety in viable builds for inferno. But the game has literally been out for 9 days and there's a large chance nobody knows exactly what works best yet, and the game is going to recieve patches to change stuff like D2 did (corpse explosion nerf, anyone?)
And you can't use any skill you want in hell in D2, just like in D3, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. A meteor sorc can't go through the game only using fireball, even if she maxes it for meteor. It's just not going to deal enough damage in hell to kill stuff effectively. Just like you can't go through as a CE necro anymore.
And as for the number of viable skills; those will change with patches.
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From someone who has not played D3 but seen some videos of it and played D2 fairly extensively, I can say that Diablo 3 looks like a very good game but it doesn't really interest me. As I have grown older, my taste in games has changed. I'm paying closer attention to the story and characters as well as other factors. Diablo 3's story does not look very compelling.
That being said, the story is not the main selling point of Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is a hack and slash and it looks like it does that well. Maybe it was from my time in Diablo 2 or maybe it was my time in WoW, but I can't really tolerate grindy games anymore. If I want to kill lots of things, I can just load up D2 again and play to my hearts content without paying 60 bucks for a new game to do that. I may pick it up down the road but not at full price.
I still agree with a lot of your points. I don't know why people have so many expectations for a hack and slash game. Just sit back and kill lots of things. Maybe you'll get phat lootz. That's why a lot of people love Diablo.
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read it all, and great job
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On May 24 2012 17:17 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 11:58 Epishade wrote:
I also disagree with your post about customization in D2 vs D3, and how you think that there is only 1 or so viable builds for a hell-built character; that every one was just a cookie-cutter build no different from everyone else. Idk how you can say this is any different than D3. You are restricted even less in D3 because the majority of the skills on the characters suck on hell and inferno mode. You are absolutely pidgeon-holed into a single build that everybody HAS to use because nothing else works. Demon Hunter has to rely on their smokescreen + preparation to survive in inferno (but that got nerfed anyways). Wizard had something too but idk what it was, just that it got nerfed as well. Hell, there aren't even any viable builds for the Barbarian on D3 in inferno mode. In D2, I realize that some of the skills weren't optimal to invest in, but there are even less ones in Diablo 3. Idk how you can say "If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization." only applies to Diablo 2, when it certainly (and even more so imo) applies to Diablo 3. So basically, you're saying that everyone was using cookie cutters in D2 and that they weren't the only viable builds, but D3 has no variety in viable builds for inferno. But the game has literally been out for 9 days and there's a large chance nobody knows exactly what works best yet, and the game is going to recieve patches to change stuff like D2 did (corpse explosion nerf, anyone?) And you can't use any skill you want in hell in D2, just like in D3, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. A meteor sorc can't go through the game only using fireball, even if she maxes it for meteor. It's just not going to deal enough damage in hell to kill stuff effectively. Just like you can't go through as a CE necro anymore.And as for the number of viable skills; those will change with patches.
wait, what? Are you seriously referring to the nerf that happened way back in 1.03?
CE is and has always been incredibly strong, but you've never been able to use only CE; you need some way to generate a corpse.
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what makes d3 bad is bnet 0.2
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Great write-up. Alot of these complaints I feel are just being rehashed over and over from people who know nothing about the game, especially that "feels like WoW" comment that I keep hearing.
While the main story sucked, if you explore and read all the little tidbits hidden around the areas, there is a great amount of easter eggs and side stories scattered. You can also find out some of the aftermath of the heroes from diablo 2 .
One thing I hate is the goddamn rubber banding. This is the worst part of the game and it the one thinking making it near unplayable for me at times. I don't mind the over-the-top difficulty in inferno, or the cheap insta deaths from rare mobs, but when they take skill out of the game, and there's a random chance that I might lag and not dodge a mortar, then fuck them. Seriously, 250MS ping is NOT green latency, what is wrong with you?
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On May 24 2012 17:17 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 11:58 Epishade wrote:
I also disagree with your post about customization in D2 vs D3, and how you think that there is only 1 or so viable builds for a hell-built character; that every one was just a cookie-cutter build no different from everyone else. Idk how you can say this is any different than D3. You are restricted even less in D3 because the majority of the skills on the characters suck on hell and inferno mode. You are absolutely pidgeon-holed into a single build that everybody HAS to use because nothing else works. Demon Hunter has to rely on their smokescreen + preparation to survive in inferno (but that got nerfed anyways). Wizard had something too but idk what it was, just that it got nerfed as well. Hell, there aren't even any viable builds for the Barbarian on D3 in inferno mode. In D2, I realize that some of the skills weren't optimal to invest in, but there are even less ones in Diablo 3. Idk how you can say "If you have 1000 choices and 999 of them are bad, that is not customization." only applies to Diablo 2, when it certainly (and even more so imo) applies to Diablo 3. So basically, you're saying that everyone was using cookie cutters in D2 and that they weren't the only viable builds, but D3 has no variety in viable builds for inferno. But the game has literally been out for 9 days and there's a large chance nobody knows exactly what works best yet, and the game is going to recieve patches to change stuff like D2 did (corpse explosion nerf, anyone?) And you can't use any skill you want in hell in D2, just like in D3, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. A meteor sorc can't go through the game only using fireball, even if she maxes it for meteor. It's just not going to deal enough damage in hell to kill stuff effectively. Just like you can't go through as a CE necro anymore. And as for the number of viable skills; those will change with patches.
Granted, the main reason for this is immunities, which D3 doesn't exactly have. But there are certainly builds like meteorb which, though won't kill as quickly as a specialist, will allow you to atleast kill monsters.
To be clear here, I am comparing hell in diablo 2 to inferno in diablo 3, as those are both the two hardest difficulties. In inferno as it is right now (that might change but I doubt it), there are just about no viable original skill builds due to most of the skills being vastly inferior in Inferno than they were in the other difficulties. They don't scale up in damage at all and the entire game is completely gear dependant. Some people may like that, but I'd prefer to be able to hybrid/specialize my skills to actually original.
As for your last point, I sure hope that they would patch the game to make the skills scale with difficulty or something. There are no reasons to have pets as a Witch Doctor, or any kind of companion (other than maybe a bat for hatred regen) as a Demon Hunter. Some of the skills in this game are just god awful, and I would hope that they do get changed. But I doubt Blizzard would do anything about it anytime soon.
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Is this game worth the money?
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On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
Are you sure they're the ones who are dumb?
Funny how you're indirectly insulting the guys at blizzard who poured hours of effort perfecting the story than the actual people who thought it was bad.
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On May 26 2012 09:37 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
Are you sure they're the ones who are dumb? Funny how you're indirectly insulting the guys at blizzard who poured hours of effort perfecting the story than the actual people who thought it was bad.
It doesn't matter how much effort they put into it, if they did a bad job they deserve to be critisized for it.
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On May 26 2012 20:04 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:37 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 21 2012 16:11 Gheed wrote:
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
Are you sure they're the ones who are dumb? Funny how you're indirectly insulting the guys at blizzard who poured hours of effort perfecting the story than the actual people who thought it was bad. It doesn't matter how much effort they put into it, if they did a bad job they deserve to be critisized for it.
Almost all games have bad story. Just Diablo and arpg's in general take the tryhard-emotional-scene-should-i-save-the-geth-or-quarians aspect out of it.
If they wanted they could use some passable plot twists and make you more involved in the story. They don't.
In my experience there's a phenomenal amount of people that couldn't know a good scenario if it hit them in the head.
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On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
I find that most of the people who have problems with the story are just people who were kids back when diablo 2 came out(this includes me) and it left a big impression then because of how young they were. The same is true of 10 year old kids who are now playing diablo 3. In another 10 years they will also be probably nostalgic about diablo 3 and bash on diablo 4 or whatever.
I am probably one of the rare ones who actually thoroughly enjoyed the story. The reason behind this being is that I was genuinely surprised at the events after the second act. While I was playing I was thinking: "Ok so there's Belial and Azmodan, Belial was at the end of the second act, so Azmodan will probably be at the end of the fourth, that is at the end of the game. You have your regular cheesy helpers, with some girl taking Cain's place and her mysterious*scofs* mother, and they are all about family values, missing their uncle/brother and insert simillar children-values-oriented bullshit.
And the all of a sudden BAM!. This one is a traitor, the little girl who was promoted during the first half of the game as the ultimately goody2shoes is now suddenly just completely lost and dead and no mention of her anywhere in the game since? WTF??? It was like the equivalent of saying that Cain was actually Diablo all along or some shit. And the whole second part of the game has a completely different feel about it. No more *hush hush* mysterious demons and horadric scrolls and mages and whatnot, all of a sudden youre in a awesome looking heaven under attack by some serious fire spewing demons and you have the archangel of justice by your side.
You managed to genuinely surprise me Blizzard, and I thank you for it
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On May 26 2012 22:12 Myrkul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. I find that most of the people who have problems with the story are just people who were kids back when diablo 2 came out(this includes me) and it left a big impression then because of how young they were. The same is true of 10 year old kids who are now playing diablo 3. In another 10 years they will also be probably nostalgic about diablo 3 and bash on diablo 4 or whatever. I am probably one of the rare ones who actually thoroughly enjoyed the story. The reason behind this being is that I was genuinely surprised at the events after the second act. While I was playing I was thinking: "Ok so there's Belial and Azmodan, Belial was at the end of the second act, so Azmodan will probably be at the end of the fourth, that is at the end of the game. You have your regular cheesy helpers, with some girl taking Cain's place and her mysterious*scofs* mother, and they are all about family values, missing their uncle/brother and insert simillar children-values-oriented bullshit. And the all of a sudden BAM!. This one is a traitor, the little girl who was promoted during the first half of the game as the ultimately goody2shoes is now suddenly just completely lost and dead and no mention of her anywhere in the game since? WTF??? It was like the equivalent of saying that Cain was actually Diablo all along or some shit. And the whole second part of the game has a completely different feel about it. No more *hush hush* mysterious demons and horadric scrolls and mages and whatnot, all of a sudden youre in a awesome looking heaven under attack by some serious fire spewing demons and you have the archangel of justice by your side. You managed to genuinely surprise me Blizzard, and I thank you for it
Did you really get that surprised about Leah? I was very suspicious when in the Fields of Misery she says something like "I sometimes have outbursts of power, but cant control them" or something like that. I was pretty sure that something is up there, that either Diablo (since he is destined to make an appearance) or Asmodan are controlling her.
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On May 27 2012 08:57 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 22:12 Myrkul wrote:On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music. I find that most of the people who have problems with the story are just people who were kids back when diablo 2 came out(this includes me) and it left a big impression then because of how young they were. The same is true of 10 year old kids who are now playing diablo 3. In another 10 years they will also be probably nostalgic about diablo 3 and bash on diablo 4 or whatever. I am probably one of the rare ones who actually thoroughly enjoyed the story. The reason behind this being is that I was genuinely surprised at the events after the second act. While I was playing I was thinking: "Ok so there's Belial and Azmodan, Belial was at the end of the second act, so Azmodan will probably be at the end of the fourth, that is at the end of the game. You have your regular cheesy helpers, with some girl taking Cain's place and her mysterious*scofs* mother, and they are all about family values, missing their uncle/brother and insert simillar children-values-oriented bullshit. And the all of a sudden BAM!. This one is a traitor, the little girl who was promoted during the first half of the game as the ultimately goody2shoes is now suddenly just completely lost and dead and no mention of her anywhere in the game since? WTF??? It was like the equivalent of saying that Cain was actually Diablo all along or some shit. And the whole second part of the game has a completely different feel about it. No more *hush hush* mysterious demons and horadric scrolls and mages and whatnot, all of a sudden youre in a awesome looking heaven under attack by some serious fire spewing demons and you have the archangel of justice by your side. You managed to genuinely surprise me Blizzard, and I thank you for it Did you really get that surprised about Leah? I was very suspicious when in the Fields of Misery she says something like "I sometimes have outbursts of power, but cant control them" or something like that. I was pretty sure that something is up there, that either Diablo (since he is destined to make an appearance) or Asmodan are controlling her.
Yeah I actually was. I thought she was just this some kind of unrealized potential, because of horadric or nephalem ancestry or whatever. I mean, she's like the main character in the game probalby, takes Cain's place, slowly developes her power, you walk by her side ad she's always talking about how she'll get her own Inn after this is finished, and how she misses her uncle, and how all of this is unreal, and then she just fucking up and dies and is never mentioned again? It seemed very.... unblizzard-like,and yes, that surprised the crap out of me.
I was expecting that when you kill Azmodan and Belial, that maybe you'd have to kill Diablo's soul inside the soulstone or smth, but definetly not this lol.
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On May 24 2012 11:59 MightyAtom wrote:
great write up from someone who really knows the game. appreciated reading it.
You'd think that until you read him saying ES on Sorc in pvp is a "troll build"
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Awesome article. Haters gon' hate, but I wish they'd keep their hatin' to themselves. I'm personally finding wizard is an excellent class. It's much harder in the early stages (of Normal difficulty) but "comes of age" around Act 4. The challenge was good, although I found Belial was like Duriel in D2... I didn't stand a chance against him. I had to get a Barbarian friend of mine to step in to help.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qOxOV.png)
Saw this in general chat just now..
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On June 11 2012 07:57 rawb wrote:Saw this in general chat just now..
U no play D2? They named a character after gheed in that game. It's just carrying over the tradition
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EPT
