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On May 16 2012 15:13 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 06:28 Snuggles wrote:
I'm glad I waited before committing myself to buying D3. I did tons and tons of searching, reading through posts and people's different opinions. It really does seem like D3 was just all hype. game is still super fun though. but the removal of customisation actually makes the game lacking in depth (that's how I feel anyway) but I think they did it to encourage players to play with skill rather than good stats buildup ownage in pvp?
I'm still on edge about going through and buying it even if the truth of how the game really is without any bias emerges from some or several "reliable" reviews. I want to take into consideration of how long I'll actually keep playing the game as well I really don't want to toss out $60 for a pure click and 2 - 3 hotkeys of hack and slash single/multi-player RPG. Whereas with SC2, my $60 at launch was so worth it that I'd be an idiot not to buy it.
Perhaps the game just isn't for me... I mean the beta is a pretty good representation of how the gameplay is isn't it? Because if it is, no amount of cool skills and graphics would be able to convince me to play it. In the end it's still an RPG, with an ending, I'm looking for a long lasting game to keep me entertained for years to come with fresh new content arriving at my doorstep every once in a while. I hate to admit it but WoW was that game for me, I hated how irresponsible I was with my time management skills but the memories I made were irreplaceable.
I'm in the neutral here guys, I'm looking at both sides of the fence and trying to figure out who has the better argument.
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On May 16 2012 13:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 02:49 TheToast wrote:On May 16 2012 00:48 Skilledblob wrote:
welcome to my betaweekend experience. The game is solid but it didnt really grab me. I'll say it again, what made Diablo 2 awesome was the ability to build a unique character; tweaking states, making tough decisions about skill points; knowing that you're character was one of a hundred different permutations of just that one class. Gave the game a ton of replay-ability, you could play through as a sorceress with 4 different elemental focuses, or try to be a bad ass and mix them together. But Blizzard WoW-ized D3. The skill system is now linear and boring, you can't spend hours tweaking stats, or figuring out how best to build your character so you can use that one badass weapon. D2 was never known for its visuals, gameplay mechanics weren't anything revolutionary, and the storyline could at times feel a bit flat. Take away the awesome character system, and I'm not sure what's left. I'll probably get the game when it comes down in price a ways, but there's no way in hell (no pun) I'm going to spend $60 for demon-y version of WoW. If I felt the need to play a WoW-like game, I'd just go play WoW. It sucks that Blizzard destroyed one of the best RPGs ever, but what's worse is the legions of WoW players talking about how awesome this game is; not having played D2 and having no idea how awesome this game should have been.  -edit: Odal thanks, almost forgot about the boatloat of items in D2; magic items, unique items, rare items, sets, and the ability to literally craft your own items with the horodric cube. -edit2: On May 16 2012 00:58 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I find my character quite strong for his level, but I also know that normal difficulty in Act 1 is meant to be the tutorial for the game.
Considering how static the skill system is, your character is pretty much similar to every other character of the same class and level. At max level, they will be exactly the same character. Exactly. All of the customization of D2 is gone, the ability to create different character builds, with different skill sets, with different armor--all of it is gone. This is so wrong. Diablo 3 is 10x more unique than diablo 2 was. Spell customization is so free and you can have so many different types of skills it's insane as well as the room to experiment. I don't know how you can say what you said when there's like 5 abilities per slot and 5 runes per ability. How did diablo 2 have that type of customization? You say hours building your character but in reality it's just doing cookie cutter builds. At least wait until you even get to hell to say you're not gonna be optimizing your character. Are you even at nightmare yet? Normal was a joke, but once you get to the end of act 1 nightmare you'll know what I mean when you really need to start thinking about what you're gonna use and how. Yeah, diablo 2 made you recreate a character from scratch and grind your way back up to try new builds. In diablo 3 you can freely switch between specs *SO LONG AS YOU HAVE THE ITEMS TO DO SO*. What's the problem here? And uhh, diablo 3 has magic items, unique items, rare, items, sets as well. Who knows what else there is in hell or inferno? The horadric cube for crafting your own items was meant for probably the .001% of the top end of players who could afford to do it. I seriously love the people compaining about how the game is easy on normal. NO FUCKING SHIT. Diablo 2 was a joke on normal as well, and once you get to hell and inferno difficulties please tell me it's too easy. I'm at the end of act 1 on nightmare and it is NOTICEABLY harder.
It was actually very possible to die to Duriel in Act II while playing on Normal difficulty, assuming you didn't have help and were using found gear (not muled).
I used regular gear and breezed my way through normal. I was excited about the skill customization, I thought it would be unique and free-form. It's really not, it's exceptionally flat and (at least for the Witch-Doctor) a certain few skills are clearly better than others.
As for actual builds, there aren't any, not really. I play the Witch-doctor, and I use whatever skill I want that fits the occasion. There's no sense of uniqueness to the character and you get bored using the same 3 skills over and over again.
As for the general storyline, it's just bad. They took the grim storylines of Diablo I & II and turned it into a "we all fight together" motif with a little bit of "those dumb authority figures".
Diablo II thrived on its feel; it was dark, creepy, the backstory was vague, the references to Diablo I were subtle (Blood Raven -> Rogue, the Summoner -> Mage, Wanderer -> Warrior), and there never really was alot of hope, and the message wasn't "humanity has something special" so much as "humanity has to clean up its own shit".
I understand why this new blizzard decided to release a game to cater to the WoW crowd and give them another generic title to waste time in, but I really don't think it's deserving of the Diablo name.
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On May 17 2012 04:05 ThomasHobbes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 13:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 16 2012 02:49 TheToast wrote:On May 16 2012 00:48 Skilledblob wrote:
welcome to my betaweekend experience. The game is solid but it didnt really grab me. I'll say it again, what made Diablo 2 awesome was the ability to build a unique character; tweaking states, making tough decisions about skill points; knowing that you're character was one of a hundred different permutations of just that one class. Gave the game a ton of replay-ability, you could play through as a sorceress with 4 different elemental focuses, or try to be a bad ass and mix them together. But Blizzard WoW-ized D3. The skill system is now linear and boring, you can't spend hours tweaking stats, or figuring out how best to build your character so you can use that one badass weapon. D2 was never known for its visuals, gameplay mechanics weren't anything revolutionary, and the storyline could at times feel a bit flat. Take away the awesome character system, and I'm not sure what's left. I'll probably get the game when it comes down in price a ways, but there's no way in hell (no pun) I'm going to spend $60 for demon-y version of WoW. If I felt the need to play a WoW-like game, I'd just go play WoW. It sucks that Blizzard destroyed one of the best RPGs ever, but what's worse is the legions of WoW players talking about how awesome this game is; not having played D2 and having no idea how awesome this game should have been. -edit: Odal thanks, almost forgot about the boatloat of items in D2; magic items, unique items, rare items, sets, and the ability to literally craft your own items with the horodric cube. -edit2: On May 16 2012 00:58 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I find my character quite strong for his level, but I also know that normal difficulty in Act 1 is meant to be the tutorial for the game.
Considering how static the skill system is, your character is pretty much similar to every other character of the same class and level. At max level, they will be exactly the same character. Exactly. All of the customization of D2 is gone, the ability to create different character builds, with different skill sets, with different armor--all of it is gone. This is so wrong. Diablo 3 is 10x more unique than diablo 2 was. Spell customization is so free and you can have so many different types of skills it's insane as well as the room to experiment. I don't know how you can say what you said when there's like 5 abilities per slot and 5 runes per ability. How did diablo 2 have that type of customization? You say hours building your character but in reality it's just doing cookie cutter builds. At least wait until you even get to hell to say you're not gonna be optimizing your character. Are you even at nightmare yet? Normal was a joke, but once you get to the end of act 1 nightmare you'll know what I mean when you really need to start thinking about what you're gonna use and how. Yeah, diablo 2 made you recreate a character from scratch and grind your way back up to try new builds. In diablo 3 you can freely switch between specs *SO LONG AS YOU HAVE THE ITEMS TO DO SO*. What's the problem here? And uhh, diablo 3 has magic items, unique items, rare, items, sets as well. Who knows what else there is in hell or inferno? The horadric cube for crafting your own items was meant for probably the .001% of the top end of players who could afford to do it. I seriously love the people compaining about how the game is easy on normal. NO FUCKING SHIT. Diablo 2 was a joke on normal as well, and once you get to hell and inferno difficulties please tell me it's too easy. I'm at the end of act 1 on nightmare and it is NOTICEABLY harder. It was actually very possible to die to Duriel in Act II while playing on Normal difficulty, assuming you didn't have help and were using found gear (not muled). I used regular gear and breezed my way through normal. I was excited about the skill customization, I thought it would be unique and free-form. It's really not, it's exceptionally flat and (at least for the Witch-Doctor) a certain few skills are clearly better than others. As for actual builds, there aren't any, not really. I play the Witch-doctor, and I use whatever skill I want that fits the occasion. There's no sense of uniqueness to the character and you get bored using the same 3 skills over and over again. As for the general storyline, it's just bad. They took the grim storylines of Diablo I & II and turned it into a "we all fight together" motif with a little bit of "those dumb authority figures". Diablo II thrived on its feel; it was dark, creepy, the backstory was vague, the references to Diablo I were subtle (Blood Raven -> Rogue, the Summoner -> Mage, Wanderer -> Warrior), and there never really was alot of hope, and the message wasn't "humanity has something special" so much as "humanity has to clean up its own shit". I understand why this new blizzard decided to release a game to cater to the WoW crowd and give them another generic title to waste time in, but I really don't think it's deserving of the Diablo name. diablo 2 only had the "dark" vibe in act1, especially the spooky cave and crypt areas. not surprising as they were first developed. but as development went on, the areas became more and more colourful, and expansion a5 def has a slight proto- WoW vibe going
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On May 17 2012 04:04 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 15:13 ETisME wrote:On May 16 2012 06:28 Snuggles wrote:
I'm glad I waited before committing myself to buying D3. I did tons and tons of searching, reading through posts and people's different opinions. It really does seem like D3 was just all hype. game is still super fun though. but the removal of customisation actually makes the game lacking in depth (that's how I feel anyway) but I think they did it to encourage players to play with skill rather than good stats buildup ownage in pvp? I'm still on edge about going through and buying it even if the truth of how the game really is without any bias emerges from some or several "reliable" reviews. I want to take into consideration of how long I'll actually keep playing the game as well I really don't want to toss out $60 for a pure click and 2 - 3 hotkeys of hack and slash single/multi-player RPG. Whereas with SC2, my $60 at launch was so worth it that I'd be an idiot not to buy it. Perhaps the game just isn't for me... I mean the beta is a pretty good representation of how the gameplay is isn't it? Because if it is, no amount of cool skills and graphics would be able to convince me to play it. In the end it's still an RPG, with an ending, I'm looking for a long lasting game to keep me entertained for years to come with fresh new content arriving at my doorstep every once in a while. I hate to admit it but WoW was that game for me, I hated how irresponsible I was with my time management skills but the memories I made were irreplaceable. I'm in the neutral here guys, I'm looking at both sides of the fence and trying to figure out who has the better argument.
You get like 3 skills in the beta and it's not challenging at all. Up that to a number of combination of 6 skills and 3 passives while you're running around dodging like 30 spells at once and I dare someone to tell me that it's hack and slash. The combat is immensely fun and 50x better than diablo 2s.
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Pretty much played the game for 2 days nonstop now. We are a group of 4, now in nightmare end of act 3 and the game is a lot of fun at least until now. Nightmare seemed really easy at first, but starting with act 2/3 it became a bit more challenging. There are those lazer dudes (arcane enchanted) who will just fry you almost instantly if you are not careful (or being stuck between walls another mob casted -.-), or the suicide bombers who do like 90% of your life if you don't evade them. I can only imagine how hard inferno mode will be, if this is the second difficulty setting (not saying it is super hard now, but it certainly is not autopilot).
I really would only recommend the game if you have people to play it with, because from the limited time I've played it alone, it was pretty easy compared to 4 players and boring because you don't have people to laugh with when someone dies in laz0rs or gets blown up by exploding plants while looting.
btw: I love the people who complain about the "shallow" skill system. In D2 you made a character, basically chose 1-2 skills to concentrate on (which you maxed) and then picked the rest for synergies. I don't understand how that's more interesting from a combat points of view, but I find it kinda sad that after having a character at max level, you have not reason to level the same class again for a different build as you can just switch at will. In D3 you can develop your own playstyle, while in D2 you just picked a certain build like hammerdin, javazon etc. which looked and played just like everyone elses.
Either way, D3 is not a game you will play over and over again for months (except maybe if pvp takes off - you never know), like SC2 or an MMO, but I could see it as a game that you play through together with some friends from time to time over a few weekends after the initial hype and addiction has worn off.
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On May 17 2012 11:59 MaGariShun wrote:
Pretty much played the game for 2 days nonstop now. We are a group of 4, now in nightmare end of act 3 and the game is a lot of fun at least until now. Nightmare seemed really easy at first, but starting with act 2/3 it became a bit more challenging. There are those lazer dudes (arcane enchanted) who will just fry you almost instantly if you are not careful (or being stuck between walls another mob casted -.-), or the suicide bombers who do like 90% of your life if you don't evade them. I can only imagine how hard inferno mode will be, if this is the second difficulty setting (not saying it is super hard now, but it certainly is not autopilot).
I really would only recommend the game if you have people to play it with, because from the limited time I've played it alone, it was pretty easy compared to 4 players and boring because you don't have people to laugh with when someone dies in laz0rs or gets blown up by exploding plants while looting.
btw: I love the people who complain about the "shallow" skill system. In D2 you made a character, basically chose 1-2 skills to concentrate on (which you maxed) and then picked the rest for synergies. I don't understand how that's more interesting from a combat points of view, but I find it kinda sad that after having a character at max level, you have not reason to level the same class again for a different build as you can just switch at will. In D3 you can develop your own playstyle, while in D2 you just picked a certain build like hammerdin, javazon etc. which looked and played just like everyone elses.
Either way, D3 is not a game you will play over and over again for months (except maybe if pvp takes off - you never know), like SC2 or an MMO, but I could see it as a game that you play through together with some friends from time to time over a few weekends after the initial hype and addiction has worn off.
This is disappointing. No 10 year run for D3?
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On May 18 2012 02:48 rwrzr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 11:59 MaGariShun wrote:
Pretty much played the game for 2 days nonstop now. We are a group of 4, now in nightmare end of act 3 and the game is a lot of fun at least until now. Nightmare seemed really easy at first, but starting with act 2/3 it became a bit more challenging. There are those lazer dudes (arcane enchanted) who will just fry you almost instantly if you are not careful (or being stuck between walls another mob casted -.-), or the suicide bombers who do like 90% of your life if you don't evade them. I can only imagine how hard inferno mode will be, if this is the second difficulty setting (not saying it is super hard now, but it certainly is not autopilot).
I really would only recommend the game if you have people to play it with, because from the limited time I've played it alone, it was pretty easy compared to 4 players and boring because you don't have people to laugh with when someone dies in laz0rs or gets blown up by exploding plants while looting.
btw: I love the people who complain about the "shallow" skill system. In D2 you made a character, basically chose 1-2 skills to concentrate on (which you maxed) and then picked the rest for synergies. I don't understand how that's more interesting from a combat points of view, but I find it kinda sad that after having a character at max level, you have not reason to level the same class again for a different build as you can just switch at will. In D3 you can develop your own playstyle, while in D2 you just picked a certain build like hammerdin, javazon etc. which looked and played just like everyone elses.
Either way, D3 is not a game you will play over and over again for months (except maybe if pvp takes off - you never know), like SC2 or an MMO, but I could see it as a game that you play through together with some friends from time to time over a few weekends after the initial hype and addiction has worn off. This is disappointing. No 10 year run for D3?
He is basically describing Diablo 2 as well. Very few people played it exclusively for years, like you do in a game like SC2 or WoW. Very often people would level a character, take a break, wait for a ladder reset, etc. It's hard to say anything so soon, but it doesn't mean you wont still have fun in those weekends you decide to go back to D3 five or ten years from now.
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EPT
