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Introduction or: Where is Sen?+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys!
To my and hopefully your excitement, i created a list of the best 30 foreign players. As you may know, those lists are rly subjective. I try to look at achievements and latest results, but its unavoidable to get personal opinions into this.
There is no such thing as the perfect „ranking“, but i enjoy doing those, most ppl enjoy reading them, but not many ppl put rankings out there.
My ranking is purely about foreign players and i exclude asian, non korean players as well – that means you wont find chinese or taiwanese players in my ranking. The simple reason being: i dont have much information about these scenes. I obviously know that Sen, Xigua and also MacSed are great players, but its impossible to compare them to the players in EU and NA. So you could consider it a „Western Foreigner Top 30“.
I put quite some work into it and i hope i get at least some reads, since i think a ranking made by a random person should be posted as a blog and not as a thread in the general section, even though it might end up with no responses at all.
So here is the list for this month! (i try to release one every month)
Old Lists+ Show Spoiler +May 2012![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephanogkaa5.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/2naniwardlps.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/3thorzainn4asf.jpg) ---------------- 1.  Stephano --------------------------- 2.NaNiWa --------------------------- 3.ThorZaiN ------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/4hukl7bpy.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/5retb7zvi.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/6saseojl1v.jpg) ------------------ 4. HuK --------------------------------- 5.Ret --------------------------------- 6.SaSe ------------------------ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/7kastsx01.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/8nerchiofibzq.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/9shethiyxxs.jpg) ------------------ 7. Kas -------------------------------- 8.Nerchio ------------------------------- 9.Sheth --------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/10managbbuy.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/11idra1xkux.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/12selectc3je6.jpg) --------------- 10. MaNa ------------------------------- 11.IdrA -------------------------------- 12.SeleCt ------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/13lucifronq7kmi.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/14dimaga4akbq.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/15happywyko9.jpg) -------------- 13. Lucifron ---------------------------- 14.Dimaga ---------------------------- 15.Happy -------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/16demuslimggj4q.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/17morrowxxkl9.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/18bratokz1jyq.jpg) ------------- 16. DeMusliM ------------------------ 17.MorroW ----------------------------- 18.BratOK ------------------ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/19sockeecj4t.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/20grubbyg5j2e.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/21titanfrknw.jpg) --------------- 19. Socke --------------------------- 20.Grubby -------------------------------- 21.TitaN -------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/22hasuobsryksf.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/23whiterazyjtz.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/24feastvoj8h.jpg) -------------- 22. HasuObs ------------------------- 23.WhiteRa ----------------------------- 24.Feast ------------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/25sjowr1jat.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/26todxukwo.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/27nightendb1kx4.jpg) ---------------- 25. SjoW ------------------------------- 26.ToD -------------------------------- 27.NightEnD -------------- ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/28darkforcek5ki7.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/29beastyqtyqjcm.jpg) ___ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/30slivkoo4jzd.jpg) ------------- 28. DarKFoRcE ----------------------- 29.Beastyqt --------------------------- 30.sLivko ------------------
The following 20: + Show Spoiler +Please leave a comment about how you like my ranking, what u think i could do better and stuff like that.
Which players are overrated? which are underrated? Did i leave out players completely?
Ty for clicking & reading!
 
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I think Sen should be somewhere up there. Also Idra is a little too high imo.
Otherwise nice list.
Opps, haha my bad, didn't see that intro
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On May 05 2012 04:13 Bouyt wrote:
I think Sen should be somewhere up there. Also Idra is a little too high imo.
Otherwise nice list.
Skipped over that little part titled "Introduction: Or where is Sen?" didn't we?  Overall seems pretty good I would probably have moved a few things around, but I guess everyones list would look a little bit different.
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Select still is korean.
Hmmm, I have a lot of fanboyism for socke in me, otherwise I have to admit that the players above him performend more well.
Why did sheth move up?
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Inb4 why is IdrA so high 11?
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On May 05 2012 04:19 HaRuHi wrote:
Select still is korean.
Hmmm, I have a lot of fanboyism for socke in me, otherwise I have to admit that the players above him performend more well.
Why did sheth move up?
I guess because he has done fairly well in recent team leagues, don't think he has done anything at any major LAN though.
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On May 05 2012 04:20 0ne wrote:
Inb4 why is IdrA so high 11?
Idra's just like impossible to rank. You put him too high and you get the "OMG POPULARITY CONTEST" people and if you put him too low, the Idra fanatics crucify you. Personally I'd put him a bit lower but this is fine I think.
Nice ranking. :D
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Pretty good list, but Idra is WAY too high on this list. Demuslim is also in too high of a spot.
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On May 05 2012 04:20 0ne wrote:
Inb4 why is IdrA so high 11?
Well it is a valid question  Placing him anywhere in a top30 of foreigners seems to high for him.
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Nightend 27 and no major? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Out of curiousity, how do you motivate the top 3? I don't disagree at all (I might switch ThorZain and Stephano and Naniwa around, but I generally agree - they're the three best), just curious on how you reasoned
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id put IdrA at least a couple spots farther up, he may not have won many games this year but hes shown amazing games agaisnt amazing palyers
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On May 05 2012 04:38 Gamegene wrote:
Nightend 27 and no major? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
major didnt do anything in the last 3 months. he dropped out of the "following 20" list recently - talent isnt everything and he didnt even have huge results in the past.
Nightend is probably a bit too low, but its so hard for me to rank 22-30.
idra is still high cause of his huge achievements of the past and the great play that pops out once a month. if he keeps underperforming, he will drop faster and faster, just as he did in the previous 2 rankings!
Also, Sheth, Nerchio and MaNa moved up mainly because Idra, Select and Dimaga dropped down^^
And no, select stays a forgeigner for the reasons i pointed out in list 1 - he lives in the us for a long time and learned sc2 in the us. the small trip to korea and his roots / childhood are not the main factors imo. but ye, you can argue about that day in day out^^
while this is impressive, socke recently lost 1-3 in the eps quaterfinals vs cloud, who himself struggles a lot against protoss and PvT is supposed to be sockes best MU.
Furhtermore he underperforms in teamleagues.
While the MLG success overshines those things, i still dont see any "worse" players in front of him.
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Yeah, Idra is wayy too high. Considering he has placed last place in (almost) every single event in 2012, he doesn't even deserve top 100. I put almost in brackets, in case I missed out a win somewhere.
Illusion, now QuanticIllusion, should definitely be higher. He tore through the IPL4 open bracket, narrowly losing before reaching the group stage. Other Vile-Quantic members like State have been putting up solid performances in team leagues, they should definitely be ranked higher.
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I too was under the impression that Idra was to high up, but when i looked at the other competition i realized Shit our foreigners fucking suck. I say this with all love for the foreign scene, but in reality the rest of the foreigners below IdrA have been pretty quiet as far as i noticed for the last few months. Yea theres always the one ore two upsets against the Koreans but they realyl are dominating the scene.
Edit: I shouldn't say suck, i should say have been performing not as explosive since the arrival of the koreans.
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Awesome list, Thanks for taking the time to these!
Cheers!
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Pretty good, but everyone from 12 to 30 can take out your no. 11
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On May 05 2012 04:54 Heh_ wrote:
Yeah, Idra is wayy too high. Considering he has placed last place in (almost) every single event in 2012, he doesn't even deserve top 100. I put almost in brackets, in case I missed out a win somewhere.
Illusion, now QuanticIllusion, should definitely be higher. He tore through the IPL4 open bracket, narrowly losing before reaching the group stage. Other Vile-Quantic members like State have been putting up solid performances in team leagues, they should definitely be ranked higher.
IdrA lost close games against bomber and MMA
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Why isn't Demuslim anywhere on there, including the bottom 20?
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On May 05 2012 05:13 grush57 wrote:
Why isn't Demuslim anywhere on there, including the bottom 20?
hes number 16
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On May 05 2012 05:11 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:54 Heh_ wrote:
Yeah, Idra is wayy too high. Considering he has placed last place in (almost) every single event in 2012, he doesn't even deserve top 100. I put almost in brackets, in case I missed out a win somewhere.
Illusion, now QuanticIllusion, should definitely be higher. He tore through the IPL4 open bracket, narrowly losing before reaching the group stage. Other Vile-Quantic members like State have been putting up solid performances in team leagues, they should definitely be ranked higher. IdrA lost close games against bomber and MMA
And many other koreans. He has lost to some foreigners, but most of his losses are to really good koreans that foreigners never beat :p.
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On May 05 2012 05:17 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 04:54 Heh_ wrote:
Yeah, Idra is wayy too high. Considering he has placed last place in (almost) every single event in 2012, he doesn't even deserve top 100. I put almost in brackets, in case I missed out a win somewhere.
Illusion, now QuanticIllusion, should definitely be higher. He tore through the IPL4 open bracket, narrowly losing before reaching the group stage. Other Vile-Quantic members like State have been putting up solid performances in team leagues, they should definitely be ranked higher. IdrA lost close games against bomber and MMA And many other koreans. He has lost to some foreigners, but most of his losses are to really good koreans that foreigners never beat :p.
to be fair, his wins against koreans are from the past. in the last 2 months, all we saw were losses against foreigners right and left, but he obviously still has some credits to burn.
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why feast so low, the guy plays like a beast
also i doubt ipl4 was put into this as quanticillusion and ecscarlett would each be higher due to their sick runs through the open brackets there
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Canada1637 Posts
Pretty good list I would say, the only major disagreement I have is the placement of Illusion.
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On May 05 2012 05:27 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:17 blade55555 wrote:On May 05 2012 05:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 04:54 Heh_ wrote:
Yeah, Idra is wayy too high. Considering he has placed last place in (almost) every single event in 2012, he doesn't even deserve top 100. I put almost in brackets, in case I missed out a win somewhere.
Illusion, now QuanticIllusion, should definitely be higher. He tore through the IPL4 open bracket, narrowly losing before reaching the group stage. Other Vile-Quantic members like State have been putting up solid performances in team leagues, they should definitely be ranked higher. IdrA lost close games against bomber and MMA And many other koreans. He has lost to some foreigners, but most of his losses are to really good koreans that foreigners never beat :p. to be fair, his wins against koreans are from the past. in the last 2 months, all we saw were losses against foreigners right and left, but he obviously still has some credits to burn.
he hasnt palyed many foriegner lately pretty mcuh jsut korean tosses
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Very similar to my top 10, Socke should be way higher though.
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On May 05 2012 05:44 Adebisi wrote:
Pretty good list I would say, the only major disagreement I have is the placement of Illusion.
im a huge illusion fan, i watch his stream everytime, follow him on twitter and so on - and i know how good he can be.
the problem i have with putting illusion up too early is the consistency. he can wrack koreans, but also lose 0-2 to "delphi" and lose in the iem groupstages.
hes close to go to the top30, but if i compare him to the ppl him, he has to accomplish sth else before i go with him, but i have no doubt he will be top15 within this year.
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I think Minigun should be somewhere on here.
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On May 05 2012 05:37 unit wrote:
why feast so low, the guy plays like a beast
also i doubt ipl4 was put into this as quanticillusion and ecscarlett would each be higher due to their sick runs through the open brackets there
As much as I am a fan of scarlett too, one tournament run isn't enough, and we need to wait and see more results for her. Although I also am of the opinion that Illusion should be in the top 30.
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Overall, very nice list. I won't say that I agree 100%, but I think it's pretty darn good. I especially like the formatted graphic for each player. Nice to be able to put some faces to the slightly less known names. One suggestion: It might be nice to link to their liquipedia page or stats page if you click on a player's graphic.
And to many of the other responses, yeah, there are some really tough players to place. Idra almost never competes in an open bracket, so he never gets to make runs against scrubs and medium strength players. Instead, he's almost always pitted against the best of the best and he loses. Doesn't mean he's actually worse than guys who pick up more wins against worst competition. Anyone from 12-30 could beat him on a given day, but he could also beat anyone ranked 12 and lower on any given day and potentially take a series off any zerg/terran above him on the rankings. Similar things go for guys like Sase, except his issue is that he rarely gets to play in tournaments outside Korea. He has almost no results, but we can see in the quality of his games that he's very good.
So all of these rankings are very subjective and hard to place. Makes it part of the fun.
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Illusion should be WAY WAY higher.
nice list though, reading power ranks is fun so thanks for this!
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
T_T I can't see the list, its all pictures! Have text saying your order!
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United States8476 Posts
Nerchio above kas and Illusion in the top 30 imo. Also shelth much lower imo. He hasn't done anything in the last month, so don't know why he got +4.
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On May 05 2012 06:59 NrGmonk wrote:
Nerchio above kas and Illusion in the top 30 imo. Also shelth much lower imo. He hasn't done anything in the last month, so don't know why he got +4.
stated why illusion. steth cuase the others around him underperformed a bit. nerchio > kas is questionable after kas performance at this weekend
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minigun should be here 
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I think I more or less agree with the top ten, after that though it kind of becomes a toss up. Maybe potential wise IdrA should be up as high as he is, but he hasn't shown us any good results recently.
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Once again, a good list. I don't have much criticism, I fully agree with your top 10, although I maybe wouldnt have put Sheth so much higher than last time.
Placement of all the players below top 10 is certainly arguable and often a toss-up, you probably can't always say that Player X is better than Player Y with absolute certainty, but overall you did a good job, and most important, I wholly agree with the trends you showed by having the players gaining or losing ranks.
Can't argue against those and it's good to see Beastyqt back, I didn't really agree with leaving him out of the top 30 last time.
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thanks for all the feedback once again. will continue in june!
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ok, seems like i still overrated idra... will see how it develops next month though
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Overall, pretty appropriate ranking and nicely done.
As already stated, Idra is a little too high. I think at least Lucifron and Morrow should be ranked above him, maybe he and Mana (he may be close to top 10, but I don't think he currently is) should switch their positions with them.
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I like the ranking but Beasty is still to low  , he's clearly better than 6/7 players above him, he will show you this month ^^
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Pretty nice ranking.
Down: Idra (20-30 max), Happy, Demuslim, Darkforce
Up: Illusion, Fraer (these 2 should definitily be in)
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Tefel also deserve a mention. But pretty nice ranking Idra way to high tbh
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On May 08 2012 03:42 RotterdaM wrote:I like the ranking but Beasty is still to low , he's clearly better than 6/7 players above him, he will show you this month ^^
hes sick in teamleagues, but ye, like rank 19-30 are so hard to rank :/
illusion is very close, needs like 1 more splash i feel to kick someone out.
fraer - not close yet. close to 30-50 though, was in last time, didnt show anything since then.
tefel - i watch him closely, he did well in the qualifiers for MLG as it seems, but he also loses a lot to "average" foreigers constantly.
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i don't agree with most of your ranking but four glaring issues are that slivko is way to low he's at least better then 12 of the players on last list. titan to low, and sheth and demusilm to high
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Added a text-ranking with Liquidpedia links under the pictures, just in case some ppl dont see them
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On May 08 2012 07:28 KalWarkov wrote:Added a text-ranking with Liquidpedia links under the pictures, just in case some ppl dont see them
What a great idea! ^_^
I agree with most of it, apart from Idra being too high, and Illusion not being in the top 20. Your top 5 is what really interests me though, I completely agree with it, and it seems everyone else does, so I guess that ranking is just unanimous?
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Idra way way to high. Other then that, list is fine
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Hm...IdrA overrated as expected...can't figure out what he's doing at the 11th place.
Oh and something else Morrow-IdrA showmatch 4-0 and Morrow is at 17th a belive. 
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Vortix is playing like a beast at the moment, I think he is good enough to make an entry to top 30 next month. Happy is clearly better than a few of the guys above him, although I dunno if he has the results to back up that statement.
Nice list though! Also, if we were to include Sen, he would have to be the 2nd best foreigner zerg imo
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Pretty good list tbh. Most of my changes would just be nitpicking for the most part, good effort I think!!
Idra is obviously overrated, LucifroN is underrated even at rank 13, he's outstanding.
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Lucifron is a bit overrated for the moment tbh.
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Nice list, thanks for sharing
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It's a pretty well made list, just think Demuslim and Select shouldn't be in the top 20.
And as others have said, don't think you should put Select in there at all due to being Korean.
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GSL RO8 is better than Stephano. He is good, but I think maaany people overrate him.
Edit: lol, just realized that everyone used the word "overrate" when moving peopl around.
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On May 09 2012 06:38 Walnuts wrote:GSL RO8 is better than Stephano. He is good, but I think maaany people overrate him. Edit: lol, just realized that everyone used the word "overrate" when moving peopl around.
When asked who they think the best player is, nearly all the pro players say Stephano.
Naniwa's GSL run was certainly impressive, but his performance in Dreamhack was not exactly stellar. Stephano has beaten his fair share of Koreans and hardly ever loses a series against other foreigners.
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Idra is WAY too high up, if he weren't on the list I wouldn't miss him at all, he's had a rough start in this year, probably the worst start of all foreigners.
Also 2 things I'd like to note: Huk is too high imo, Ret should be 4. And the huge difference between the top 3 and the rest. It's like a completely different playing field. I'd say there's Stephano, Nani and Thorzain, then there's Ret, and then there's everyone else.
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That's a pretty good list actually. Some minor beefs though:
Grubby consistently beats every foreigner except Stephapho and Naniwa - has a positive win/loss ratio against many of the guys over him at the list. Happy rated higher than him?! Which leads me to my other beef. Happy is not top 15 material, when has he ever done good in a notable tournament? To me it seems like he's pretty good on ladder and very minor online cups, but can't deliver vs good players on LANs where it counts (which makes me sad because I like Happy! )
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On May 12 2012 08:56 OKMarius wrote:That's a pretty good list actually. Some minor beefs though: Grubby consistently beats every foreigner except Stephapho and Naniwa - has a positive win/loss ratio against many of the guys over him at the list. Happy rated higher than him?! Which leads me to my other beef. Happy is not top 15 material, when has he ever done good in a notable tournament? To me it seems like he's pretty good on ladder and very minor online cups, but can't deliver vs good players on LANs where it counts (which makes me sad because I like Happy! )
Happy delivers quite well in Team leagues as well, and skillwise, i would even rate him higher. The reason him not showing much at offline events is why he is where he is (does that make sense? lol)
Grubby needs more consistancy i feel, but he will surely move up slowly, no doubt.
Also, i obviously have changes in mind already (esp. concidering idra), but there is still 3 weeks to go and i dont wanna spoiler 
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Hehe, fair enough, but I disagree!
The consistancy argument doesn't work if you take the last 2-3 months into account. Grubby has been way more consistent than some of the guys ahead of him (Idra, Sheth, Happy and Select comes to mind). He's gotten top 3 in pretty much all tournaments he's participated in the last few months. Recently stomping Ret for example in two different tournaments. Doing better than all foreigners (except Stephano ofc ) in the MLG going on now as well, beating two koreans so far.
Looking forward to your next ranking!
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Hm, just wondering if anyonefeels lastshadow should warrant a mention? I know he doesn't really have results, but I get the feeling that his time in Korea's made him a fair beast if his replay packs are anything to go by.
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Well i like rankings.
i agree this is very subjectiv.
So is my opinion.
well when i looked at the first line, top 3 players, i have to completely agree.
But the next 2 lines are all good players but all underperforming lately. (execpt sase who has never placed highly in a major tournament, he can't really underperform)
I would take most players from the following lines (socke, Hasu, morrow, demuslim, grubby) over them.
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Are you looking out for LastShadow cause his play is amazing.
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On June 01 2012 09:07 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Are you looking out for LastShadow cause his play is amazing.
He might look amazing to some people but he has 0 results so he shouldn't be on the top 30 for foreigners.
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Nice job with the ranking. Cool to see someone do this
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I think that Idra shouldn't even be on the list. Demuslim and Throzain should also be positioned lower, as they haven't really shown that impressive results(besides thorzain @ DH). Lucifron, Grubby and Socke should be higher, as they are showing some pretty good results lately.
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Great list, I don't understand why Select is on it though, he is not a "foreigner".
I wouldn't really call Illusion or biGs foreigners either.
If you are of Korean heritage and understand/type the language, you are a "Korean player" in my book.
On June 01 2012 09:07 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Are you looking out for LastShadow cause his play is amazing.
He seems to enjoy creating a distance between him and the "foreigner" tag.
He hasn't put up any "foreign event" results since 2010 MLG.
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I would love to see an updated list for June after Dreamhack and MLG Keep up the great work!
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EPT
ClouD
TLO
BlinG
