• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:39
CEST 12:39
KST 19:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!15Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Best Games Kespa era BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5198 users

Fans Who Play vs Fans Who Don't

Blogs > CPTBadAss
Post a Reply
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
April 30 2012 02:30 GMT
#1
On State of the Game, The Executives, and many other podcasts, listeners are always told how StarCraft 2 is such a great a spectator sport. Then someone is bound to say that many people have stopped playing the game but still enjoy watching. I always found this to be an odd thought since I love playing, but also I feel that the game is incredibly complicated without first-hand knowledge. It always hurt my head to realize that people can follow builds and the flow of the game without having the actual experience of playing.

For myself, I am a player. Lately on ladder, I’ve been paralyzed in TvP by the threat of early pressure. 4Gate, 3 stalker pressure, and the dreaded immortal bust all scare me so bad. So when I got the opportunity to watch (P)PartinG attempt the immortal busts during MLG Spring Arena #1, I perked up. I wanted to see how to beat it.

BAH was my wingman for the MLG Arena weekend and he does not play. He watched the matches with me and was completely baffled by the immortal bust build. He tried to understand the build but called out the most random builds ever. And as I saw the 3gate robo drop down, I knew what was coming. I happily called out an immortal bust and he looked at me in incomprehension. As I watched Terran shut it down (I believe it was (Wiki)MarineKing, but I’m not sure), BAH told me that he had never seen that build before and it surprised me. I told him it was pretty common on ladder, even at my level. Later in the tournament, I told BAH about a reaper/hellion build that I had watched Vile's (T)Illusion try on stream one day. And sure enough, I saw the build later in a crazy TvT (The game turned into a wild base race with a single banshee saving the day. I believe it was (T)Heart vs (T)GanZi?). Again, BAH had never seen the build ever and was entranced by the odd play. He only watches and follows the tournament scene, he doesn’t actually play. And that is completely fine, it just always throws me for a loop.

I think this mix of players and non-players provides great insight to how diverse our scene really is. There is room in the scene for casual fans and for players. Of course playing gives you a better appreciation of how hard it is to pull off the 1/1/1 all-in or to defend a 4gate. But SC2 is not impossible to follow. That being said, I still think every fan should play a few games. Even if it is a 4v4, you’ll get such a better feel for how the game works. It took me months of dedicated practice to finally develop a useful stutter-step. You can really relate to (Wiki)MKP as you see him dance to victory if you play.

To the fans out there who watch but don’t play, more power to you. It will forever boggle my mind how you guys/gals follow the game without playing; it’s amazing that it can be done.

*
I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
recklessfire
Profile Joined September 2010
United States373 Posts
April 30 2012 02:38 GMT
#2
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.
Deleted User 238668
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
344 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-30 02:44:26
April 30 2012 02:44 GMT
#3
I watch a lot of sc2 but play it rarely. I've found that just watching streams and youtube VODS has helped my scant play dramatically. Of course, there's nothing like first hand experience playing the game, bit I feel that I've a decent enough comprehension of basic BOs/counters/timings etc. Execution and fluidity, on the other hand, are entirely different things.

But yes, I'm happy enough as a spectator.
Clip, clop, Camelot.
TheRealDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States213 Posts
April 30 2012 02:45 GMT
#4
I don't actually know anyone who only watches. Maybe the unexplored is what intrigues them along with the commentators that feed them information that they are unaware of. While the person who plays is just excited that they can incorporate some tactics into their gameplay or glad they don't have to play against some of those professionals who appear as unstoppable monsters lol.

GL with those immortal busts, I'm with you on that one O.o
"They claim that we violent. We named after Tyrants. This revolution won't be televised we keep it silent."
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
April 30 2012 02:49 GMT
#5
I don't really understand how people can be fans of the game when they don't play it. Myself, personally have zero interest in watching real sports simply because I don't play any.

I get my enjoyment from watching professionals play sc because I can study them and improve my own play.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
April 30 2012 02:58 GMT
#6
On April 30 2012 11:38 recklessfire wrote:
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.


I actually wanted to talk about casters and their role but I felt that might be another article. I think casters do help, but only up to a certain point. I've never played American football but I bet I'd appreciate the skill a quarterback has way more if I played a few games at the position. I can only listen to John Madden stutter so many times before I ignore him. Or i hear every cliche catchphrase ever and tune it out.
I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
Coramoor
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada455 Posts
April 30 2012 04:09 GMT
#7
On April 30 2012 11:58 CPTBadAss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2012 11:38 recklessfire wrote:
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.


I actually wanted to talk about casters and their role but I felt that might be another article. I think casters do help, but only up to a certain point. I've never played American football but I bet I'd appreciate the skill a quarterback has way more if I played a few games at the position. I can only listen to John Madden stutter so many times before I ignore him. Or i hear every cliche catchphrase ever and tune it out.


john madden has been retired for like 5 years at least, where have you been
recklessfire
Profile Joined September 2010
United States373 Posts
April 30 2012 05:21 GMT
#8
On April 30 2012 11:58 CPTBadAss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2012 11:38 recklessfire wrote:
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.


I actually wanted to talk about casters and their role but I felt that might be another article. I think casters do help, but only up to a certain point. I've never played American football but I bet I'd appreciate the skill a quarterback has way more if I played a few games at the position. I can only listen to John Madden stutter so many times before I ignore him. Or i hear every cliche catchphrase ever and tune it out.


you know, ive been thinking it over and probably at one point almost all the spectators for american football has played football at least once, even if it was flag football during high school gym class or something. Maybe that makes it that much easier to watch pro football for them?
BlackGosu
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1046 Posts
April 30 2012 06:33 GMT
#9
you dont have to be a fan of a sport to enjoy watching it. take MMA for example. i highly doubt there are more than 5% of the audience who are actually amateur fighters
Jar Jar Binks
Grohg
Profile Joined March 2011
United States243 Posts
April 30 2012 07:26 GMT
#10
Competitive people can watch anything and with enough time they can pick up on subtleties. I'm an avid football/soccer fan and I've played since I was 6 or 7 so when I watch the sport with someone who hasn't played before I have more inside knowledge right away. However, I love watching hockey...the sport is amazingly quick and requires a ton of dexterity/skill to be good at. Just by watching hockey, I've started to pick up on details that I used to miss. I never played the sport but there are always things I can learn just by being an observer.

Football matches aren't exciting to someone who wants to see big numbers on the scoreboard (most of the time at least) but the build up play and positional fluidity creates something that is truly dynamic. Starcraft is the same way...you only need to understand the basics to start. As you see more and more of the game's depth you begin to understand how simple actions trigger much larger events. This is what draws people...not necessarily the sport itself. People with a competitive nature that delve into Starcraft at all tend to be drawn to the depth and skill even if they don't play themselves. I would think that most people would play at some point if it interested them but I guess there are some people who are content to watch and enjoy it without participating.
You can't spell slaughter without laughter.
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
April 30 2012 14:50 GMT
#11
On April 30 2012 13:09 Coramoor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2012 11:58 CPTBadAss wrote:
On April 30 2012 11:38 recklessfire wrote:
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.


I actually wanted to talk about casters and their role but I felt that might be another article. I think casters do help, but only up to a certain point. I've never played American football but I bet I'd appreciate the skill a quarterback has way more if I played a few games at the position. I can only listen to John Madden stutter so many times before I ignore him. Or i hear every cliche catchphrase ever and tune it out.


john madden has been retired for like 5 years at least, where have you been

You know, playing StarCraft.

On April 30 2012 14:21 recklessfire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2012 11:58 CPTBadAss wrote:
On April 30 2012 11:38 recklessfire wrote:
its like physical sports like american football. I bet a majority of spectators only see a single guy(quarterback) trying to get a ball across a field either by throwing or giving it to someone else. They can't see the subtle things the offensive players are doing to adjust to the defense and vice versa and thus not recognizing the extreme depth of the players' intelligence and athleticism. Starcraft is confusing, but it is certainly obvious when someone is winning when they just destroyed through someone's army. We have casters there to explain the subtle details that each player is doing to help those who don't really understand whats going on.


I actually wanted to talk about casters and their role but I felt that might be another article. I think casters do help, but only up to a certain point. I've never played American football but I bet I'd appreciate the skill a quarterback has way more if I played a few games at the position. I can only listen to John Madden stutter so many times before I ignore him. Or i hear every cliche catchphrase ever and tune it out.


you know, ive been thinking it over and probably at one point almost all the spectators for american football has played football at least once, even if it was flag football during high school gym class or something. Maybe that makes it that much easier to watch pro football for them?

Yeah, I personally appreciate the skill that goes into football way more because I did play some flag football in school.

On April 30 2012 15:33 BlackGosu wrote:
you dont have to be a fan of a sport to enjoy watching it. take MMA for example. i highly doubt there are more than 5% of the audience who are actually amateur fighters

I'm just saying that it's easier to understand SC2 if you're a player. Just my own opinion. And with MMA, I think everyone can relate to getting punched/kicked...it's bound to have happened once in your life


I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 30 2012 18:27 GMT
#12
On April 30 2012 15:33 BlackGosu wrote:
you dont have to be a fan of a sport to enjoy watching it. take MMA for example. i highly doubt there are more than 5% of the audience who are actually amateur fighters


But punching someone in the face is something we all understand. Fighting games are easier to follow than starcraft 2, the life bar make sure of that.

This issue comes up every time who don't play SC2 watch it. The hardest thing to understand for them in an all-in, in my opinion. Only with really deep game knowlage can you tell that an all-in is coming. But American Football has similar issues, with some people being able to call the play before the ball is snapped and others who figure out what was going on after the tackle. People just need to learn how to explain that to their buddy who does not play in 2-3 sentences or less. Don't use units or the word economy. Also, saying "he is going 'all-in', like poker" helps.

Immortal bust: "He is cutting corners and going to try to kick in the terrans door before he is ready for a full fight. But he is spending so much on this that he cannot recover if it fails."

Baneling bust: "He is cutting corners and going to try to kick in the terrans door before he is ready for a full fight. He is going to get these little bombs to blow up the bunkers. But they cost a lot and he won't be able to come back if he fails."

And so on.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
BirdKiller
Profile Joined January 2011
United States428 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-30 18:45:42
April 30 2012 18:43 GMT
#13
For me, I lost significant interest watching professional Starcraft 2 matches and tournaments after I stopped playing. For me, I was motivated to watch because I could probably apply what I saw to how I played in future SC2 matches and it was a great supplement to my SC2 experience.

However, once I stopped playing, the thought "I should rather be playing than watching a video game" kept drilling into the mind to the point that I hardly pay attention to the SC2 scene anymore.

Someone brought up that for sports like Football, Soccer, Baseball, etc., most viewers hardly play these sports, but I think this statement is irrelevant for SC2 and e-sports in general, as of right now at least. E-sports isn't at the status of these professional physical sports where the latter has become a dominant cultural, traditional, and social aspect of lives of many. Also, video games still have a negative social stigma depending on what you play and how long you play, unlike sports. It's even more negative for those who watch video games as a sport.

Instead, we're a minority among most gaming communities where the statement "I'd rather be playing a video game than watching it" is something that a true hardcore gamer would be proud to say. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with the statement as well.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Escore
10:00
Season 3 Week 7
escodisco1071
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko185
SortOf 146
BRAT_OK 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 997
Jaedong 421
Pusan 407
actioN 176
EffOrt 158
Light 122
Snow 116
Soma 101
Mong 86
ZerO 56
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 45
sorry 38
Rush 38
Sharp 37
Barracks 28
HiyA 28
Sacsri 23
scan(afreeca) 22
hero 20
Free 18
Sexy 16
yabsab 14
Terrorterran 14
soO 13
Noble 11
Dota 2
The International50839
Gorgc13272
Fuzer 322
KheZu65
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1523
shoxiejesuss1210
kRYSTAL_28
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King116
Other Games
crisheroes258
DeMusliM70
ZerO(Twitch)2
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 15
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1276
League of Legends
• Jankos1658
• Stunt583
Upcoming Events
PiG Sty Festival
1h 21m
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
5h 21m
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
23h 21m
PiG Sty Festival
1d 1h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
OSC
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.