• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:36
CEST 13:36
KST 20:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
$5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Script to open stream directly using middle click A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 730 users

Need advice on improvement

Blogs > dronefarm
Post a Reply
dronefarm
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States260 Posts
April 24 2012 04:51 GMT
#1
Heyo. I was looking for some advice about improving in SC2. Not in a mechanical or strategical way; but ways to overcome your own shortcomings. I've written blogs before about my struggles with mentality; to summarize the problem I have...

I either play well, or horribly. I'm currently a platinum player. My MMR is right around diamond level, and I regularly play diamond and ocassionly low masters players. When I can play the way I can, I have quite high win percentages with these players, to the point where they're really not challenging me to do anything out of my comfort zone, and I just pretty much roll them. Occasionally, however (once every other day or so), I just start playing horribly. I can lose to anyone and anything. I will fuck up things I do just fine on a good day, and I'll tank. I'll lose 20+ games in a row easily. I've lost to silver players during these types of losing streaks. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to when it happens, and it stops as suddenly as it began. I've tried taking a break for a day or two and I'll still play like shit for a while after I start playing again, and then I'll suddenly start playing well again, roll everyone, learn nothing, then the process repeats.

It even goes beyond just playing poorly. It seems like on these days, people are doing stuff that is so far inside my head it's ridiculous. On these off days, I'll have a goal; for instance on the ladder today, I was practicing 15 hatching in ZvZ (I usually open up 14/14), and 9 out of the 9 games I played, I got 10 pooled. I'll get a bunch of proxy 2 gates or 2 rax, and people who just do crazy stuff hoping I assume based on whatever scouting info I make that they're doing X thing. I have people go 2 star while chronoboosing +ups on their forge while they have 1 sentry or something crazy to make me thing something else is going on (and a lot more crazy shit like that).

People even treat me like shit when this is going on. I'll be having a bad day, not playing well at all, then I'll start a game, say gggl, and the guy says "fuck you", beats me, then lambasts me on how horrible I am even though I haven't said shit. I'll get BM'd all the time when I'm on an off day, I guess I just run into the most angry kids on Bnet (maybe it's because they're on losing streaks too, idk). Everythign just seems to pile up on these days.

I just can't seem to raise my skill at all, I'm either rolling through everyone because I'm not playing people around my skill level or I'm playing like shit. It's so frustrating given how much time I put into this game (or activities around it) that I just can't get better; games never feel rewarding.

I don't know what advice I'm looking for, maybe I'm just looking to vent, but if anyone knows any way to reign this sort of thing in, I'm all ears. Thanks TL, bye.

**
If you can chill, chill
Vod.kaholic
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1052 Posts
April 24 2012 05:51 GMT
#2
I don't think people play badly for no reason, or randomly. The streaks may be tied to external factors (how many people feel like cheesing today or doing something you have a hard time handling), but for the most part they have to do with things going on in your own life.

For example, I know when I'm about to play badly. If I'm tired, hungry, distracted, if some big life issue is hanging out in the back of my mind, if I have something pressing to do soon, etc. I know I'm just not going to play well. If I make a bunch of frustrating mistakes all in a row, I will get frustrated and stop playing well. If I notice myself falling into the same repetitive pattern between games and its not working out, I know I need to stop and re-frame how I'm thinking.

There has to be a rhyme or reason, but you're not looking for it. It doesn't all have to do with the game. On those days you lose to silver players, think about what you did earlier that day or that week, or what you haven't done yet that you should etc. and see if that wasn't the issue causing you to play poorly that day. First you have to know what things are affecting you (if it's happening a lot, it's not just random), and then you can figure out how to overcome them.

I imagine someone like Jinro, who took a huge risk in pursuing SC2 as a career (as did all progamers), and if he's perfroming inconsistently, it's probably a cascade of events that led to where he is now, and it probably all started with the risk he took starting out and the pressure of expectations. Point is, it could be external factors, and it could be how you respond psychologically to those on any given day. The point is, if this bothers you a lot you should try to find the source of the problem first.
._. \: |: /: .-. :\ :| :/ ._. They see me rolling...
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
April 24 2012 06:06 GMT
#3
Yeah, a lot of it is just... strange. I was #1, crushing masters. THen took a rough tumble to 30 diamond. Then have managed to get back up to #13. But still 40 points down from my high, and bonus pool is about ~40, making total change around 80 points from my peak. And I feel like I"m playing better. Dunno man, it's hard.
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia987 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-24 06:22:18
April 24 2012 06:13 GMT
#4
There's other psychological issues at work here. When you start beating higher level players than yourself you're telling yourself you're a fucking amazing player and its easy cos you're so damned good. Or at least that's what it sounds like. You know what I think when I win a game?

"Hmmm... I slipped up my macro really badly when I was getting broods, I need to remember more macro hatches and keep up injects in future. My micro in the first 2 engages wasn't the best, I need to work on that. I also got lucky he didn't do a blink timing because I think that could have killed me, I should find ways to make sure I know he isn't doing that next time so I'm not relying on luck".

Now this isn't just me saying you should look for ways to improve. It's about the entire freakin mindset of improving and DOING YOUR BEST. If you're not playing your best then there's often 1 key reason. As I stated above you might just think you're freakin amazing and stop trying as a result. If this is the problem then it's because rather then wanting to play the game, you just want to beat your opponent. Your ego seems to be implicitly tied in with winning to the point where you get on an ego-high and start ignoring aspects of the game. Now if this is the case then it isn't until you hit rock bottom, after 20 or so losses that you finally are so upset and disenchanted with the game and your performance that your ego is crushed. With no inflated ego to focus on you have to actually start focusing really tightly on how you perform and actually go back to playing the game to your actual ability.

Of course 17 wins and 3 losses later you think you're king-shit again and start losing because all you're thinking about is crushing your opponent into the ground without even trying and how awesome you are, and so the cycle begins again.

I believe these thoughts on the ego of players in Starcraft II applies to most players to one degree or another. I hope that you realise that winning at this game, while making you feel like a baller, in no way makes you better than anyone else. There's always someone out there faster, better or smarter than you. All you can do as a competitor is gain what you would from any competitive sport or activity, the satisfaction of self-improvement, effort and trying bloody hard.

All ego does is stand in the way of real satisfaction.
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
dronefarm
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States260 Posts
April 24 2012 06:32 GMT
#5
On April 24 2012 15:13 PiGStarcraft wrote:
There's other psychological issues at work here. When you start beating higher level players than yourself you're telling yourself you're a fucking amazing player and its easy cos you're so damned good. Or at least that's what it sounds like. You know what I think when I win a game?

"Hmmm... I slipped up my macro really badly when I was getting broods, I need to remember more macro hatches and keep up injects in future. My micro in the first 2 engages wasn't the best, I need to work on that. I also got lucky he didn't do a blink timing because I think that could have killed me, I should find ways to make sure I know he isn't doing that next time so I'm not relying on luck".

Now this isn't just me saying you should look for ways to improve. It's about the entire freakin mindset of improving and DOING YOUR BEST. If you're not playing your best then there's often 1 key reason. As I stated above you might just think you're freakin amazing and stop trying as a result. If this is the problem then it's because rather then wanting to play the game, you just want to beat your opponent. Your ego seems to be implicitly tied in with winning to the point where you get on an ego-high and start ignoring aspects of the game. Now if this is the case then it isn't until you hit rock bottom, after 20 or so losses that you finally are so upset and disenchanted with the game and your performance that your ego is crushed. With no inflated ego to focus on you have to actually start focusing really tightly on how you perform and actually go back to playing the game to your actual ability.

Of course 17 wins and 3 losses later you think you're king-shit again and start losing because all you're thinking about is crushing your opponent into the ground without even trying and how awesome you are, and so the cycle begins again.

I believe these thoughts on the ego of players in Starcraft II applies to most players to one degree or another. I hope that you realise that winning at this game, while making you feel like a baller, in no way makes you better than anyone else. There's always someone out there faster, better or smarter than you. All you can do as a competitor is gain what you would from any competitive sport or activity, the satisfaction of self-improvement, effort and trying bloody hard.

All ego does is stand in the way of real satisfaction.


I've thought this myself in the past, and I worked on not thinking I was going to win or anything like that. I try to play the exact same way every game. I don't think it's that I'm getting cocky, because this has been happening for a long time and I'm very conscious of not getting lazy when I'm playing well (or poorly, it just doesn't work out then).

As to the other posts, outside stimuli could be the why, but these losing streaks happen so often under so wide a variety of circumstances that I have trouble believing that is all it is as well. I've certainly had losing streaks after a shitty day at work or when I'm stressed about a relationship, or budget concerns, etc, but I've had them when I was in a great mood on the weekend where I have nothing else on my mind as well. Certainly it can't help when you're stressed, but I don't believe that is solely what's keeping me back.

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to keep these things in mind. Additional help is always appreciated ^^
If you can chill, chill
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
April 24 2012 06:47 GMT
#6
understand that what you see is not going to be guaranteed accurate information at lower levels where the players do not understand the game fully. simpliest and bestestest advice I gave myself back at release when I could beat diamond players in practice customs 80%+ and still lose to silver leagues because that 11pool 13gas does not necessitate a 7RR 100%
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia987 Posts
April 24 2012 06:48 GMT
#7
On April 24 2012 15:32 dronefarm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 15:13 PiGStarcraft wrote:
There's other psychological issues at work here. When you start beating higher level players than yourself you're telling yourself you're a fucking amazing player and its easy cos you're so damned good. Or at least that's what it sounds like. You know what I think when I win a game?

"Hmmm... I slipped up my macro really badly when I was getting broods, I need to remember more macro hatches and keep up injects in future. My micro in the first 2 engages wasn't the best, I need to work on that. I also got lucky he didn't do a blink timing because I think that could have killed me, I should find ways to make sure I know he isn't doing that next time so I'm not relying on luck".

Now this isn't just me saying you should look for ways to improve. It's about the entire freakin mindset of improving and DOING YOUR BEST. If you're not playing your best then there's often 1 key reason. As I stated above you might just think you're freakin amazing and stop trying as a result. If this is the problem then it's because rather then wanting to play the game, you just want to beat your opponent. Your ego seems to be implicitly tied in with winning to the point where you get on an ego-high and start ignoring aspects of the game. Now if this is the case then it isn't until you hit rock bottom, after 20 or so losses that you finally are so upset and disenchanted with the game and your performance that your ego is crushed. With no inflated ego to focus on you have to actually start focusing really tightly on how you perform and actually go back to playing the game to your actual ability.

Of course 17 wins and 3 losses later you think you're king-shit again and start losing because all you're thinking about is crushing your opponent into the ground without even trying and how awesome you are, and so the cycle begins again.

I believe these thoughts on the ego of players in Starcraft II applies to most players to one degree or another. I hope that you realise that winning at this game, while making you feel like a baller, in no way makes you better than anyone else. There's always someone out there faster, better or smarter than you. All you can do as a competitor is gain what you would from any competitive sport or activity, the satisfaction of self-improvement, effort and trying bloody hard.

All ego does is stand in the way of real satisfaction.


I've thought this myself in the past, and I worked on not thinking I was going to win or anything like that. I try to play the exact same way every game. I don't think it's that I'm getting cocky, because this has been happening for a long time and I'm very conscious of not getting lazy when I'm playing well (or poorly, it just doesn't work out then).

As to the other posts, outside stimuli could be the why, but these losing streaks happen so often under so wide a variety of circumstances that I have trouble believing that is all it is as well. I've certainly had losing streaks after a shitty day at work or when I'm stressed about a relationship, or budget concerns, etc, but I've had them when I was in a great mood on the weekend where I have nothing else on my mind as well. Certainly it can't help when you're stressed, but I don't believe that is solely what's keeping me back.

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to keep these things in mind. Additional help is always appreciated ^^


In that case sounds like an issue might just be once you start losing you start playing worse and worse trying to reclaim those points, or lost ego or whatever.

Basically just a problem getting tilted by the sounds of it? Staying calm after your first few losses or starting to get more panicky?
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
AC3
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada337 Posts
April 24 2012 07:26 GMT
#8
F11 and mute your opponent after you glhf if you don't want to deal with a BMing opponent. It always used to put me on tilt, and now I never have that issue.

I'm also in Plat and facing Diamond players in about half my games now, my goal is to get a promotion this season. I never face any Masters players on ladder so you're probably better than me, but if you need a Protoss practice partner or someone to vent to who won't BM and proxy 2gate you add me up on BNET. rikKus.323

Good luck trying to find consistency in your play!
"The idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another" -- Richard Feynman
Chanikus
Profile Joined January 2012
Australia8 Posts
April 24 2012 07:27 GMT
#9
Tthanks heaps PiG! Great write up, and definitely true for almost all players of the lower league
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia987 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-24 15:03:18
April 24 2012 14:59 GMT
#10
Hi Dronefarm, sorry for belittling your blog in my blog! I forget that QQ is such an offensive term! I apologise for being so rude!


On April 24 2012 16:26 AC3 wrote:
F11 and mute your opponent after you glhf if you don't want to deal with a BMing opponent. It always used to put me on tilt, and now I never have that issue.

I'm also in Plat and facing Diamond players in about half my games now, my goal is to get a promotion this season. I never face any Masters players on ladder so you're probably better than me, but if you need a Protoss practice partner or someone to vent to who won't BM and proxy 2gate you add me up on BNET. rikKus.323

Good luck trying to find consistency in your play!


Totally agree blocking communication is the way to go!


Back to your problem though basically with such a huge discrepancy in your play it HAS to be a psychological/mental issue caused by who knows what. You say that you don't think you get lazy and keep playing the same way every game, yet also don't think its outside stimuli either as you sometimes lose when happy. Well I have to say imo it has to be one or the other right? You seem quick to say you think these aren't the problems but all I can offer then is to suggest is to really look deeper next time you'r experiencing this. If you can watch a replay and see how much worse you play SURELY you would realise ingame also that you are not playing your best? Why can't you just force yourself to play better the next game? If you are rested and in a good state of mind there is no reason that I can think of.


EDIT: Also some great advice from someone on my blog:

"I think another reason behind supposedly erratic play, is that often you aren't correctly identifying why you are/aren't winning games.

A few seasons ago my strong (for mid masters) TvZ suddenly turned to crap. I literally could not buy a win against zerg and my MMR was taking a hammering as a result. I'd been a predominantly mech based TvZer and in frustration decided that it "wasn't viable" anymore. As far as I could tell, zergs had just gotten too good at handling it.

I switched to more bio oriented play, and while I had a marginal improvement in my win/loss ratio it was still nowhere near where it had been. Particularly when I started going with fast expand builds, my win rate started to climb again, but my TvZ was still pretty disastrous.

The point is, I had identified my unit composition as the problem, when really it was only making a minor difference.

It took me a long while to realise that my problem had been I was focussing too much on hurting the zerg early game, usually through heavy hellion harass, banshees or some sort of rush, and that zergs in general had gotten way too good at fending off such aggression.

Once I changed my focus to pressuring the zerg by either denying their third for as long as possible, or taking a very fast third myself, my win rate skyrocketed. And I could mech/bio at my leisure without it making a massive impact." -Fur

P.S. Take such an interest in blogs like yours because I coach Starcraft 2 and used to do it full-time so am fascinated when someone encounters this sort of trouble. Please keep us updated on how you go!
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 7
Cure vs ClemLIVE!
Crank 1425
Tasteless1253
ComeBackTV 1131
IndyStarCraft 207
Rex80
3DClanTV 76
IntoTheiNu 30
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1425
Tasteless 1253
mouzHeroMarine 400
IndyStarCraft 207
Nina 151
Rex 80
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1136
Nal_rA 592
ToSsGirL 460
firebathero 338
Light 263
Mini 220
JulyZerg 212
Last 201
PianO 184
EffOrt 174
[ Show more ]
Stork 132
Leta 125
soO 122
Pusan 92
Mind 90
sSak 56
sorry 29
Barracks 27
Shinee 27
zelot 25
Icarus 18
Movie 10
SilentControl 7
ivOry 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe439
Counter-Strike
chrisJcsgo130
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor200
Other Games
gofns29203
tarik_tv28067
FrodaN3025
B2W.Neo1231
shahzam437
DeMusliM348
crisheroes346
Fuzer 291
KnowMe178
SortOf144
Lowko114
ArmadaUGS40
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick31847
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 31
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
FEL
24m
FEL
4h 24m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
4h 24m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 24m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
6h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 24m
RSL Revival
22h 24m
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 3h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 6h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.