So, I bet a 500th post isn't much to brag about, but given that I don't really post very often on TL and enjoy lurking more than I do posting, it's kind of a big deal for me.

So, this is my first actual blog entry. Recently I've been spending more time in the blog section instead of the Simple Questions/Simple Answers strat thread where I made the relative bulk of my posts before (when I played more). I don't have a clear plan for this blog of mine right now, but somewhere in the back of my mind I know I want to use it as a way to share my thoughts and just have some sort of audience to vent to. The TL community is a pretty great community, and most of the blogs get at a good number of views and meaningful replies, so this will be a good place for what I want to do.

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Recently I've moved back home, and I haven't kept up with many people from around here, and I mainly keep in contact with my other friends online, and then not very often or in any great depth. And there are times when I just need to get things off my chest, and this blog will probably be that repository.

So, on to the point of this first blog:

I want advice on how to start programming. I will have a bit of time at school to indulge some things I've always wanted to do, and one of those things was to learn how to code. I tried in highschool and it was a pretty terrible experience. I felt clueless half the time, and utterly confused the other half. However, that was highschool, and by now I've developed more as a person, so I want to give this whole programming thing a shot and see if I at least have the capacity to learn something I've always considered just outside my ability.

I browsed the big programming thread on the general forum, but I honestly got more lost than helped because a) I don't have any real programming experience and b) I feel like none of it really helps my situation as a pre-beginner.

At my school, there are several CS courses being offered over summer, when I won't really have any other classes to take or anything else to do. Classes they're currently offering that seem like they'll be better for me to start with are:

-Introduction to Computer Science
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1. Description -
Provides a broad overview of the field of computer science and an introduction to software engineering. Introduces hardware, software, information systems, software development and networking. Uses a subset of a programming language to study programming and problem solving.

2. Course Objectives -
The student will be able to:
describe the basic makeup and functions of a computer system
define common information system terminology
design a properly constructed process to perform a computer task
understand the software development process.

-Fundamentals of Visual Basic.Net programming
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1. Description -
Introduction to computer programming using the Visual Basic.NET Language; provides an overview of computer organization and an introduction to software engineering. Topics include methodologies for program design, development, style, testing and documentation; algorithms, control structures, objects, classes, file I/O, and elementary data structures.

2. Course Objectives -
The student will be able to:
describe the basic makeup and functions of a computer system.
design a properly constructed process to perform a computer task
code the process in the Visual Basic.NET language.
test and document the resultant program.

-Introduction to Programming with C++/C#/Java
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These are 3 separate courses that all seem to have a similar description to the below:

1. Description -
Introduces the discipline of computer science using the Java language; provides an overview of computer organization and an introduction to software engineering. Topics include methodologies for program design, development, style, testing and documentation; algorithms, control structures, sub-programs, objects, and elementary data structures.
Advisories: MATH 220.

2. Course Objectives -
The student will be able to:
describe the basic makeup and functions of a computer system.
design a properly constructed process to perform a computer task.
code the process in the Java language.
test and document the resultant program

My friends have recommended I start with Java after I described all the options to them, but I'd like to know what programmers on TL would recommend (anywhere from avid programmers to people who are also just starting). All the classes except the C++ one are online, and since they're all listed as introductory, I'm pretty confident I can take 2 classes at once if I dedicate my time to it.

Thanks if you took the time to read this, what do you recommend?

Mossen

43 Posts

April 23 2012 18:10 GMT

I work as a programmer and if it were me in your shoes, I would take the intro to programming using C#. C++ is too complicated for a beginner and tends to discourage. Java is not as popular as it once was IMHO (plus, since universities started teaching it, it seems Java programmers are a dime a dozen) so you might as well do the C#. That being said, the language choice really isn't as important as gaining knowledge of the fundamentals of CS: data structures, how memory/caches work, algorithms, libraries, software design, etc. Once you have a foundation you can choose whatever language you want.....

PM me for more.

Icx

Belgium853 Posts

April 23 2012 18:35 GMT

C# or java.

You could make arguments for both, I'd prefer C#, but honestly, it doesn't make that much of a difference in the beginning.

In the beginning it's just more important to learn how to program, not learning a specific language, altough I would advise to stay away from VB.net and C++.
I actually learned how to program using VB.net in school, and tbh I can't see any reason at all why any aspiring programmer would want to learn that instead of C# or java, yes the syntax may make a bit more sense at the very start, but doesn't offer any benefits after (imho), while switching from c# to java or c++ or most other languages when you are becoming better at just the general programming concepts and you can start to understand the differences between the languages.

And also on the other side, c++, it's a bit like jumping in at the deep end, not impossible (at the first year of university/college (I guess that is the american equivalent) they started with c++, and most people are doing fine, but it still isn't that advisable for your first steps, it tends to just get kinda cumbersome to program/learn in when your not using the strengths of the language when you are starting out.

In short, unless you have a specific reason for learning java, I'd choose C#, you can't really go wrong with it.
And if you would be able to do 2, pick the C# one together with the introduction to CS, it might all sound a bit not that usefull in the beginning, but it will help you in the long run.
Especially since, taking 2 introductory courses for 2 different languages is not gonna be that usefull, since they will basicly teach you the same concepts just in a different language.

Anyway, when you start, welcome to the wonderfull world of programming, stick with, it's gonna be hard at times, and it just takes a lot of time, and you basicly never stop learning in it, but most of all have fun with it. ^^

Mtndrew

United States174 Posts

April 23 2012 19:28 GMT

I'm currently finishing up my first programming class for my major. The college I'm at requires you to start out using Visual Basic. I don't have any experience with any other languages, so I can't really comment on the benefits of using it over something else. It seems though that what you can do with VB is very limited compared to the other languages out there. It has been pretty easy to learn the syntax and the theory of programming from it, however.

Lousy!

Canada73 Posts

April 23 2012 19:49 GMT

I think you should consider learning python and clojure as well, they're quite fun to program in

If you are asking about which courses you should take, I'd recommend the C# one, since it's more enjoyable than Java, and definitely take Intro to Computer Science.

For general how to get into programming, it might help if you have a goal for what you want to write a program to do. Is there something you wish you had a program for? Start with that!

Vod.kaholic

United States1052 Posts

April 23 2012 19:59 GMT

On April 24 2012 04:49 Lousy! wrote:
I think you should consider learning python and clojure as well, they're quite fun to program in

Im not looking to program anything specific, I want to pick up general computer and coding knowledge. I'm a bio major, but if I ever want to do something beyond research, I'd like to have coding knowledge, because there are lots of programs and machines out there, and people need to write/maintain them.

Insane

United States4991 Posts

April 23 2012 20:30 GMT

Well all three of them have nearly identical course objectives... That said, I'd go with Introduction to Programming with C++/C#/Java as those languages are more versatile languages to know than VB languages, and the other parts of the classes seem nearly identical(?). [if you just want to be able to write things to help out rather than be "a programmer" I'd go with C#, whereas if you want to be able to write big-time programs I'd go with C++ as it's easier to go C++ --> C# than the other way around IMO]

The first spoiler sounds more of general introduction to computers and more of a survey course than learning in-depth how to program.

TL's also great for asking more specific questions too for the classes if you run into issues, as there are lots of us who actually do this sort of stuff for a living

RoyGBiv_13

United States1275 Posts

April 23 2012 22:06 GMT

don't prematurely associate programming with high level languages like java/python. These languages have much to do with program design, but address other lower level concepts fairly poorly. Learn both a high level and low level language at the same time for best results. Its not only possible, but easier to keep track and comprehend language concepts. Python and C, or Java and C work well.

EDIT: Also, above me, you mentioned that you didn't have anything in particular you were going after. I suggest you rethink your approach to a problem->tools->solution mechanic than a tools->problem->solution.

Apom

France656 Posts

April 23 2012 23:05 GMT

If it's just going to be a hobby / summer occupation / useful knowledge, stick to the programming courses. In order of preference, I'd say C# > Java (for PC at least - pick Java if you're running Linux), but really it doesn't make much of a difference between the two.

If you want to make this a long-run choice, such as switching majors or possibly making software engineering your future job, you should probably take the CS course though. Or C++ if you feel bold.

Blazinghand

United States25559 Posts

April 24 2012 00:50 GMT

#10

You've heard my advice on this issue, but I personally believe you should take the Intro to Programming class with either Java or C++. I learned Java as my first programming language and it helps you learn the fundamentals quite well.