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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
I know there are a lot of gun experts out there and I know some about rifles and shotguns (Been shooting 12/10 gauges since I was little and .22's for small rodents and .243's for deer), but I little knowledge about handguns. Any advice? I've heard/read Glock .45's are a good choice but I wanted to get some local internet knowledge. =)   | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Oh, and you'll get different answers from everyone about the "best" round, so just get one based on preference. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Sverigevader
Sweden388 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:08 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't want to derail the thread but what do you want a handgun for? I mean, it's meant to kill people, I don't really see any other use? You don't want to derail the thread, so you ask a question that can lead nowhere productive that can be answered by google with a search for "Recreational handgun uses"? | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:10 JingleHell wrote: You don't want to derail the thread, so you ask a question that can lead nowhere productive that can be answered by google with a search for "Recreational handgun uses"? It's not that long a post, how can you guys both miss the context? Are you just picking fights? He explicitly mentions "home defense" and "stopping power" (especially in limbs), that gives an answer to Biff The Understudy, and refutes JingleHell's idea about recreational use at the same time. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:20 538 wrote: It's not that long a post, how can you guys both miss the context? Are you just picking fights? He explicitly mentions "home defense" and "stopping power" (especially in limbs), that gives an answer to Biff The Understudy, and refutes JingleHell's idea about recreational use at the same time. Actually, I was pretty clearly answering the question asked of the OP, about what else to use one for besides killing people. After already giving my $0.02 on the OPs question. You know, speaking of missed context and picking fights and all, kinda an ironic post. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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pStar
996 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:20 Endymion wrote: after this incident i don't know if the US should trust you with owning a handgun I don't understand this, what does this have to do with anything? | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:24 pStar wrote: I don't understand this, what does this have to do with anything? here's some more context. basically he raged out because of a troll in LoL and got fired from riot for calling a player a g00k and then continuing to ban him. he even made a video trying to justify it while talking shit about EG management about a year ago too (even our beloved sir scoots!) | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
I say this all about the .40's because when I used to work as a bodyguard I'd carry 2 Glock 19's with Golden Saber bonded hollow's, and a .38 snub on my ankle. The 9mm is good for short work in shootouts, but for home defense, as you pointed out, you need serious stopping power. A .45 is too much. There are almost NO .45's with a good weight balance, and for an inexperienced shooter (which is often compared to one who is alert to sounds and or has just woken up), going to be less accurate than you initially desire. If you've ever been in a gunfight, they are quick. Very, very fucking quick. So when you'll need the balance of a precise and capable shot, your best bet is a .40cal. Actually I lied, my house is a mini-armory, and I would immediately grab my Mossberg pump shotgun and throw my Glock 22 on my hip in the case that my shell didn't hit in vital areas and I could tuck behind something to restore the time deficit I'll need to pull out my Glock. My last suggestion to you is learn your state's deadly force and gun laws to the fullest extent. This means, don't take something like Stand Your Ground or the Castle Doctrine as a means to shoot someone who is unarmed that breaks into your house and end up doing 15 years in prison due to your own negligence. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
My best advice is: move out of AZN! | ||
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
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THE_DOMINATOR
United States309 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:08 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't want to derail the thread but what do you want a handgun for? I mean, it's meant to kill people, I don't really see any other use? User was warned for this post ITS MEANT TO KILL ALL THE PEOPLE. but yea for self defense you can't go wrong with a colt 45 edit: I would advise against a shotgun simply because it's harder to handle in a confined space. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:27 Endymion wrote: here's some more context. basically he raged out because of a troll in LoL and got fired from riot for calling a player a g00k and then continuing to ban him. he even made a video trying to justify it while talking shit about EG management about a year ago too (even our beloved sir scoots!) I don't know why you're trying to derail a blog about someone's past history, and history that isn't even related to StarCraft or the topic at hand. Seriously? If anything, I'd say teamliquid staff should be held to higher posting standards too -_- especially about someone that is a bit known in the community. | ||
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Rainbow Cuddles
United States486 Posts
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:09 Sverigevader wrote: He wants the most suitable gun for home defense, not one that "looks sooo good." -_-I don't know how the gun laws work in the US, but if I could choose whichever I want, I'd want a Beretta M9. Looks sooo good. In any case, I would recommend a shotgun with birdshot over a handgun. 1) A shotgun is easier to handle, despite the ostensible simplicity of the handgun. In a stressful situation, it'll be much easier to aim at the intruder with a shotgun. 2) A shotgun with birdshot is cheaper than a handgun of comparable quality. 3) A shotgun maximizes wound trauma, making it more likely that the assailant would stop his attack. 4) At close, "home distances," the birdshot will do as much damage to a person as any other load. However, the advantage of the birdshot and the shotgun in general is that they are less likely to penetrate walls. This is a good thing, because you don't want to be accidentally hitting other people in your house. 5) If an intruder sees you with a shotgun before any shots are fired, chances are, he will gtfo your house asap. With a handgun, it's harder to spot, and even then, there's the question of whether it's a real gun or not. One of the advantages of the handgun over to shotgun, however, is that it is easier to handle in tight spaces or very close distances. But, seriously, if you're caught in such a close distance with the intruder, and he happens to have a gun as well, the odds aren't great for anyone. You're going for home defense, not acting out a movie scene. It's better to get a shotgun, get to a good spot, and shoot as soon as the intruder enters a doorway, climbs up the stairs, etc. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:37 Karliath wrote: He wants the most suitable gun for home defense, not one that "looks sooo good." -_- In any case, I'm also not too sure about what handgun you would want to get, but I would recommend a shotgun with birdshot. 1) A shotgun is easier to handle, despite the ostensible simplicity of the handgun. In a stressful situation, it'll be much easier to aim at the intruder with a shotgun. 2) A shotgun with birdshot is cheaper than a handgun of comparable quality. 3) A shotgun maximizes wound trauma, making it more likely that the assailant would stop his attack. 4) At close, "home distances," the birdshot will do as much damage to a person as any other load. However, the advantage of the birdshot and the shotgun in general is that they are less likely to penetrate walls. This is a good thing, because you don't want to be accidentally hitting other people in your house. 5) If an intruder sees you with a shotgun before any shots are fired, chances are, he will gtfo your house asap. With a handgun, it's harder to spot, and even then, there's the question of whether it's a real gun or not. IMO you assume his responsibility with firearms to be high, or you also are irresponsible with them in principle. Fact is, you can't randomly shoot when you see someone, you have to identify the situation and a shotgun in those types of situations poses more of a threat of negligence charges landing you in prison than being killed during a burglary. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:40 Game wrote: IMO you assume his responsibility with firearms to be high, or you also are irresponsible with them in principle. Fact is, you can't randomly shoot when you see someone, you have to identify the situation and a shotgun in those types of situations poses more of a threat of negligence charges landing you in prison than being killed during a burglary. I agree with you in principle, though I don't see how a handgun would more appropriately address this concern. The choice to shoot is up to the person with the gun, and has nothing to do with what gun he has. I would just suggest the OP to scrutinize and memorize the gun laws and Castle Doctrine of his state, and to make sure he has full understanding of his rights and limitations if someone were to intrude his house illegally. This way, if someone were to intrude, he wouldn't have to question the amount of force he can use. In many states, if there's an intruder in your house, you can shoot him without hesitation. This is because some state laws require that you sincerely believe the someone is trying to harm you, but, legally, the mere act of illegal intrusion gives you enough proof that he is trying to harm you. In other states, the conditions are harder to satisfy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine Edit: Just as a side note to the OP, when you call 911, the responder is never allowed to tell you, "yes, you can shoot him/her," even if you can (legally). Edit 2 @Game: Wait, I just read your first post, and now I don't understand what point you were trying to make. Were you just unhappy that I didn't mention that he should understand the laws of his state? On April 21 2012 Game wrote: Actually I lied, my house is a mini-armory, and I would immediately grab my Mossberg pump shotgun and throw my Glock 22 on my hip in the case that my shell didn't hit in vital areas and I could tuck behind something to restore the time deficit I'll need to pull out my Glock. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/109004_01_md.jpg) | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:55 Karliath wrote: I agree with you in principle, though I don't see how a handgun would more appropriately address this concern. The choice to shoot is up to the person with the gun, and has nothing to do with what gun he has. I would just suggest the OP to scrutinize and memorize the gun laws and Castle Doctrine of his state, and to make sure he has full understanding of his rights and limitations if someone were to intrude his house illegally. This way, if someone were to intrude, he wouldn't have to question the amount of force he can use. In many states, if there's an intruder in your house, you can shoot him without hesitation. This is because some state laws require that you sincerely believe the someone is trying to harm you, but, legally, the mere act of illegal intrusion gives you enough proof that he is trying to harm you. In other states, the conditions are harder to satisfy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine Edit: Just as a side note to the OP, when you call 911, the responder is never allowed to tell you, "yes, you can shoot him/her," even if you can (legally). Edit 2 @Game: Wait, I just read your first post, and now I don't understand what point you were trying to make. Were you just unhappy that I didn't mention that he should understand the laws of his state? That is such a flawed and neanderthal understanding/explanation of the Castle Doctrine. Yes, I agree that people trained in firearms should be wielding a shotgun, and more so someone who understands the technicalities of gun laws. My point about grabbing my Mossberg was that I am not only qualified to operate a weapon and have it openly carried, nor am I not only a Criminal Justice major with years of bodyguard and high level security work under my belt, but that I am intelligent enough to not shoot anyone who walks into my house. I've walked into someone's house accidentally and they were just kinda like "wut" at 11PM before going to a party, if they had shot me, they'd be indicted on 2nd degree murder IN THE STATE that was the first to enact the Stand Your Ground policy. My point was specific that he'd be best getting a pistol because you have to identify all the aesthetics and potential danger of someone before you can start blasting at them, and one pop of a shotgun is GG, heavily weighing towards misuse by someone who (if they need advice on a gun) is clearly ignorant to firearms and most likely the statutes surrounding them, inevitably landing them in prison. | ||
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Wortie
Netherlands212 Posts
Then again, the use of guns to protect your house sounds just really weird to me. Maybe it is because in Holland nobody actually is allowed to carry firearms (except the police ofc.) Also, if a person really wants to inflict harm on you, he could just ofcourse shoot you trough the window? idk. Maybe thats impersonal? | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On April 21 2012 06:18 Game wrote: That is such a flawed and neanderthal understanding/explanation of the Castle Doctrine. Yes, I agree that people trained in firearms should be wielding a shotgun, and more so someone who understands the technicalities of gun laws. My point about grabbing my Mossberg was that I am not only qualified to operate a weapon and have it openly carried, nor am I not only a Criminal Justice major with years of bodyguard and high level security work under my belt, but that I am intelligent enough to not shoot anyone who walks into my house. I've walked into someone's house accidentally and they were just kinda like "wut" at 11PM before going to a party, if they had shot me, they'd be indicted on 2nd degree murder IN THE STATE that was the first to enact the Stand Your Ground policy. My point was specific that he'd be best getting a pistol because you have to identify all the aesthetics and potential danger of someone before you can start blasting at them, and one pop of a shotgun is GG, heavily weighing towards misuse by someone who (if they need advice on a gun) is clearly ignorant to firearms and most likely the statutes surrounding them, inevitably landing them in prison. Okay, I understand and agree with your concerns with the legality of shooting someone in your house, but I still don't see how a pistol would be better than a shotgun. As you said, " he'd be best getting a pistol because you have to identify all the aesthetics and potential danger of someone before you can start blasting at them, and one pop of a shotgun is GG." What I'm trying to say is that you have to "identify all the aesthetics and potential danger" regardless of what firearm you are carrying. Again, the decision to shoot is based on the person with the gun, and not what gun they are using. Are you saying that a shotgun is more dangerous (to the OP) because one shot is "GG," likely landing the OP in serious legal trouble? In this sense, the OP would be better off going with a handgun, in hopes that shooting with a handgun would not result in a "GG?" While I agree that an appropriate amount of analysis has to be conducted before firing the first shot, once I decide to shoot, I make sure the threat is stopped, and not, "well, I think I hit him once in the arm and once in the abdomen--I hope he'll not shoot at me anymore." | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:30 Pokebunny wrote: I don't know why you're trying to derail a blog about someone's past history, and history that isn't even related to StarCraft or the topic at hand. Seriously? If anything, I'd say teamliquid staff should be held to higher posting standards too -_- especially about someone that is a bit known in the community. how is it not relevant? he has anger issues, he shouldn't have a gun. i respect psy for his contributions to the BW youtube/vod scene but he shouldn't have a gun.. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
Karliath, I get your point. But in the mindset of someone who is getting a gun strictly to keep in their house, they have a shoot first mentality strictly because it's not something they carry everyday and think about the true power they are holding and operating every day. People fire one shot when they are scared, and then suffer from temporary shock that they fired their own gun (if they don't regularly shoot it) and to then retain a comprehensive judgment of the scene he's now in. In that case, a pistol is so much better, and you have the general idea of my point, but I don't think you understand why I made it. If someone is not armed and breaks into your home, the second they hear any gunfire, they are going to run. For that reason alone, a shotgun is worse for an inexperienced shooter not only for the potential legal trouble, but for the damage of their own household. Only in the rare case that they don't end up running and pooping their pants is a shotgun a more viable option. | ||
itsjustatank
Hong Kong9154 Posts
On April 21 2012 07:06 Endymion wrote: how is it not relevant? he has anger issues, he shouldn't have a gun. i respect psy for his contributions to the BW youtube/vod scene but he shouldn't have a gun.. Respectfully, unless you are a relevant government official, a doctor, a psychologist, or a psychiatrist with privileged knowledge of his personal case, you are derailing this thread with your polarized opinion. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
On April 21 2012 06:38 Wortie wrote: You should buy a chaingun, if you shoot at someone, I'm pretty sure you'll hit some limbs too. I don't think buying a gun is a good idea. If you ever come in a situation which would require the use of a gun, I'd doubt it, that you would actually point at limbs. Unless you're a trained expert ofcourse. Then again, the use of guns to protect your house sounds just really weird to me. Maybe it is because in Holland nobody actually is allowed to carry firearms (except the police ofc.) Also, if a person really wants to inflict harm on you, he could just ofcourse shoot you trough the window? idk. Maybe thats impersonal? The chaingun suggestion got a good laugh out of me. In the United States, automatic weapons (such as fucking CHAINGUNS) require licenses to own. Also, a chaingun would be far too large to comfortably operate for defense purposes without being mounted somewhere, he wants to protect his home from intruders, not zombies. And many intruders break in while you are sleeping, and never get the chance to shoot you through the window. Besides, unless they intend to murder you and leave your house alone, firing a pre-emptive shot through the window would just give them away to the neighborhood and leave them no time to rob you. @OP I think that shotguns are the best tool for home defense, but as far as pistol rounds go, 9mm v. .45 is largely a matter of preference. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 21 2012 07:06 Endymion wrote: how is it not relevant? he has anger issues, he shouldn't have a gun. i respect psy for his contributions to the BW youtube/vod scene but he shouldn't have a gun.. You're comparing rage in a video game to real life situations...? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:57 Pokebunny wrote: You're comparing rage in a video game to real life situations...? Yeah... because don't you know, everyone acts the same in real life as they do online! You can't tell me you bought the hype about internet anonymity... | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
As I posted earlier, I'm getting engaged and as such, I feel the need to protect my future family. I own a shotgun and I will be using that as my first source of home defense in a serious encounter (Cocking a shotgun scares about 90% of intruders away) but as Game has stated, a handgun means you have to really size up what is going on before using it. Anna, my fiancee, is also a smaller woman. She can't handle shotguns very well. So a handgun would be optimal again. I should have included that in my OP. My bad! | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
Edit: No. She's not north korean. She's south. =) | ||
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dontforgetosmile
87 Posts
a bullet to the chest is a bullet to the chest no matter what caliber. if you're comfortable shooting a .45 go for it. | ||
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
 If ya going to shoot someone, might as well shoot him with some style. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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50bani
Romania480 Posts
9mm is for chumps. .45 is for goons | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
It's also a known that in most cases that police can not respond to a break in before a burglar has taken what he wants and has fled. | ||
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itsjustatank
Hong Kong9154 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:38 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: A handgun, used properly and with practice, can disable an intruder and still keep them alive so they can serve their time in jail. Use of a firearm against another person is application of lethal force. If you shoot to disable or maim, and not to kill, your self-defense justification for lethal use of force can be very easily called into question in a court of law. | ||
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dontforgetosmile
87 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:38 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: I have a dog which is the best alarm system you can have. That will deter most intruders, more stalwart ones can and will easily disable a dog. A shotgun cock is the next best thing but isn't good to use because you can blow somebody apart, which isn't my goal. A handgun, used properly and with practice, can disable an intruder and still keep them alive so they can serve their time in jail. It's also a known that in most cases that police can not respond to a break in before a burglar has taken what he wants and has fled. on second thought, don't get a gun. you have no reason to have one. | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:38 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: I have a dog which is the best alarm system you can have. That will deter most intruders, more stalwart ones can and will easily disable a dog. A shotgun cock is the next best thing but isn't good to use because you can blow somebody apart, which isn't my goal. A handgun, used properly and with practice, can disable an intruder and still keep them alive so they can serve their time in jail. It's also a known that in most cases that police can not respond to a break in before a burglar has taken what he wants and has fled. Actually, this is a common misconception. Cocking your gun sounds cool and stuff in movies, but really, if someones planning to kill you, or just doesnt mind killing you, all you cocking your gun really does is tell him where you are, and if he's armed and ready, you're probably fucked. I guess it's good for scaring the piss out of any stupid teenagers that break in though. That said, if you have a dog, and you know a dog is your best bet anyway...you dont need a gun. And to be more honest, "with proper usage and practice" doesn't actually come into play when your house is being broken into and you're actually worried about your life to the point where you think you might need to shoot someone. And if you do shoot someone, that whole "im gonna disable him so he can spend his time in jail; ill take down the criminal!" is bullshit. it's bullshit and if you actually follow it you'll probably end up dead. Beyond the fact that...if you felt safe enough to just "disable" them...you actually don't have a legal right to shoot them in the first place. | ||
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
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Bobo_XIII
United States429 Posts
On April 21 2012 11:32 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: I should also mention she's been shooting ak47's since she's been a kid. =) Edit: No. She's not north korean. She's south. =) All this boils down to is what pistol feels most comfortable in her hand/when she shoots then. Which means you need to go out and actually feel them out in gun stores, and definitely not ask for advice on TL. I don't know how you could have thought you weren't going to be harassed about this on this website. The only absolute I'd say you should adhere to is to have hollow points. You aren't shooting to maim or injure, you're shooting to kill the person you feel is threatening your life. Hollow points get the job done. | ||
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2on2
United States142 Posts
As for caliber debate, 9mm, .40, and .45 are going to stop someone in their tracks as long as you are using hollow points. 9mm is good for beginners because: low recoil, high capacity, super cheap. Those gun fearing individuals should stay out of the debate, as anyone with a proper gun license practicing open carry is less likely to be of any harm than say, a goon with a concealed weapon and a desire to commit a crime (which is reason enough for me to carry) | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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