• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:29
CEST 06:29
KST 13:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down12ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League54Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid?
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Bot on ladder [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8153 users

Quick Thoughts on Nestea vs Alive at IPL

Blogs > Thaniri
Post a Reply
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 01:53 GMT
#1
I completely rape the use of the term 'staying power' I could not think of good homophones which I would normally use in any other written document.

Game 1, Alive did an interesting all-in. Nestea had the game won when his overlord flew from the natural cliff to the natural area and saw nothing. However he made drones instead of zerglings.
He holds Alive's allin while losing his natural. Then he did a big zergling, baneling, mutalisk counter attack that I feel was the last nail in the coffin. As a result of losing his standing army, he could never secure a third base for more than a minute, and the cumulative mules of Alive allowed him to match Nestea's economy (which was stunted on 1-1.5 bases at a time since the all-in.)

Game 2, Nestea's style was boring. There was no cleverness to his play, no baneling mines, nothing particularly interesting about it. He had a very hard time holding down a 4th base, meaning that he had 70 drones on 2.5 bases up until the very end and as a result he got pretty poor near the end. He revolved around being mechanically stronger than his opponent. Stating his macro will be better than Alive's and he threw wave after wave after wave of banelings at his opponent.

A problem found in both game 1 and 2, is that banelings have no staying power. An incredibly obvious statement is that they are literally suicide bombers. But I don't think people will quite realize the implications. After each engagement, Nestea did not come ahead a single time. He traded ground armies. In game 1, the engagements after the all-in had both of the ground armies destroyed each time. Nestea was left with mutalisks, and Alive would come a minute later with his next wave. To which Nestea would again trade armies, leaving nothing but mutas, and Alive would keep coming at him. Nestea would run out of money because during these engagements he was losing his 3rd base, each time.
In game 2, if Alive would defend better with his tanks (see moment where he loses all tanks to the banelings, losing his staying power.) He could receive each suicide wave, which has no staying power and if he maintained the good drop play that denied the 4th over and over he would dry Nestea's bank.

Game 3, Alive opens 2 rax. Nestea holds and is slightly ahead of Alive. Nestea goes for a roach baneling counter attack without scouting for a sieged tank. He lost.

Games 1-3 In general, Alive did not particularly impress me. His marine micro vs banelings was not all that great, and he lost a lot of medics and tanks to mutalisks. His macro was standard. It was not Bomber-at-Orlando-esque.

Nestea kept using armies with no staying power. To pull it off he needs to add baneling mines, runbys, overlord speed, burrowing zerglings at bases, overlord creeping the bases. Adding to his inability to stay alive after battles, he could not buy enough time to remake units for the next wave by a lack of solid creep spread. If he had infestors and creep spread, engagements would go much better for him. He could fungal the marines and tie them down for the banelings to actually connect properly. And his upgrades were more moderately paced.

No shockers, but it is, what I think, a good example of why TvZ is moving away from heavy Mutalisk commitments,

Game 4, reaper expand. Then nothing much. Alive does a blue flame and marine attack that kills a significant amount of zerglings but no drones. Nestea gets the infestation pit, but delays infestors for a faster hive. He does not commit to heavy mutalisk numbers and upgrades. He tries to go for another suicide mission against Alives third which fails. Alive has some pretty good marine drop harass. After the suicide attack, Nestea would have lost if he continued his style of games 1-3. But he got a solid fungal on marines and destroyed them all with banelings. After this he gets broodlords which die because he did not protect them with infestors. (Which were accompanying the lings towards Alives third again, remember how he lost game 1?)

With the broodlords down, Alive goes for the throat. Banelings again hit tanks instead of marines, and remember how I keep repeating staying power? He has none, he has no way to beat the marine medivac army with just lings, the infestors are out of position, he has no broodlords, and no time to make banelings.

Nestea really needed to consolidate his army at the end of this game, and he had it in the bag. Also I noticed he did not expand very aggressively. His play was overly conservative, without committing hard to any of upgrades, lings, mutalisks, infestors, broodlords. He did them all at once and had a poor showing for each role. I think he finished the game with only 2-2 lings.

I think that Nestea lost this series rather than Alive winning it. With the lack of army cohesion, creep spread (part of the next item on the list), and STAYING POWER, he couldn't win.
He could not get the right units at the right place, he could not delay long enough after an engagement with a lack of creep spread (because his units all just suicided) and was punished hard for it.

Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
April 09 2012 01:56 GMT
#2
NesTea has always had problems with sleep and as a result does bad at foreign events, the fact that he pushed Alive and got so far in IPL shows that

NesTea has pretty much never shown good results at foreign events, ever and now he got to the semi finals
SwizzY
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1549 Posts
April 09 2012 02:08 GMT
#3
I stated in IPL thread, and I still strongly believe that the scrappy play of Game 1 that Alive barely won was because Nestea (for lack of APM or lack of awareness) didn't capitalize on the fact that Alive's economy was completely MULE based and therefore would not be able to afford scans for all of his pushes. Baneling bombs/burrow would've crushed the shit out of Alive's constant 1A to Nestea's third.
Hindsight is 20/20, but throughout the game I was more frustrated than entertained at Alive getting away with stretching himself so thin.

Muta/Ling/Bane is a very fragile composition that capitalizes on mistakes that the Terran makes. I think Alive started adapting well to the Muta harass which made him very comfortable... too comfortable. Nestea shouldn't have waited till game 4 to implement infestors, which by far isn't the only reason for why he lost that game (a game he had in the bag), but I think it allowed Alive to adapt to Nestea's game way too comfortably
All that glitters is not gold, all that wander are not lost, the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by frost.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 06:16 GMT
#4
Nestea could not afford to spend the money of burrow research for game 1. He lost that game during the counter attack, in which he lost his third base and failed to do significant ARMY damage to Alive.

The lack of stability in his army composition made the risk of doing suicide mission counter attacks almost game ruining every time. And he lost some games for it. Infestors are a good defensive unit for this.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 235
ViBE157
Nina 83
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 5712
Rain 2802
GuemChi 1599
Dewaltoss 166
Light 21
Icarus 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm191
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox598
Other Games
summit1g7576
Coldzera 768
JimRising 555
C9.Mang0311
PiGStarcraft310
Livibee147
Sick71
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota275
League of Legends
• Lourlo1173
• Rush1045
Other Games
• Scarra999
• Shiphtur769
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6h 31m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
9h 31m
Big Brain Bouts
11h 31m
FEL
1d 4h
Patches Events
1d 8h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 12h
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.