• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:16
CEST 23:16
KST 06:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver3[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon75Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?174Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Broodwar Prediction Market
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group C [ASL22] Ro16 Group B [ASL22] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4436 users

Quick Thoughts on Nestea vs Alive at IPL

Blogs > Thaniri
Post a Reply
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 01:53 GMT
#1
I completely rape the use of the term 'staying power' I could not think of good homophones which I would normally use in any other written document.

Game 1, Alive did an interesting all-in. Nestea had the game won when his overlord flew from the natural cliff to the natural area and saw nothing. However he made drones instead of zerglings.
He holds Alive's allin while losing his natural. Then he did a big zergling, baneling, mutalisk counter attack that I feel was the last nail in the coffin. As a result of losing his standing army, he could never secure a third base for more than a minute, and the cumulative mules of Alive allowed him to match Nestea's economy (which was stunted on 1-1.5 bases at a time since the all-in.)

Game 2, Nestea's style was boring. There was no cleverness to his play, no baneling mines, nothing particularly interesting about it. He had a very hard time holding down a 4th base, meaning that he had 70 drones on 2.5 bases up until the very end and as a result he got pretty poor near the end. He revolved around being mechanically stronger than his opponent. Stating his macro will be better than Alive's and he threw wave after wave after wave of banelings at his opponent.

A problem found in both game 1 and 2, is that banelings have no staying power. An incredibly obvious statement is that they are literally suicide bombers. But I don't think people will quite realize the implications. After each engagement, Nestea did not come ahead a single time. He traded ground armies. In game 1, the engagements after the all-in had both of the ground armies destroyed each time. Nestea was left with mutalisks, and Alive would come a minute later with his next wave. To which Nestea would again trade armies, leaving nothing but mutas, and Alive would keep coming at him. Nestea would run out of money because during these engagements he was losing his 3rd base, each time.
In game 2, if Alive would defend better with his tanks (see moment where he loses all tanks to the banelings, losing his staying power.) He could receive each suicide wave, which has no staying power and if he maintained the good drop play that denied the 4th over and over he would dry Nestea's bank.

Game 3, Alive opens 2 rax. Nestea holds and is slightly ahead of Alive. Nestea goes for a roach baneling counter attack without scouting for a sieged tank. He lost.

Games 1-3 In general, Alive did not particularly impress me. His marine micro vs banelings was not all that great, and he lost a lot of medics and tanks to mutalisks. His macro was standard. It was not Bomber-at-Orlando-esque.

Nestea kept using armies with no staying power. To pull it off he needs to add baneling mines, runbys, overlord speed, burrowing zerglings at bases, overlord creeping the bases. Adding to his inability to stay alive after battles, he could not buy enough time to remake units for the next wave by a lack of solid creep spread. If he had infestors and creep spread, engagements would go much better for him. He could fungal the marines and tie them down for the banelings to actually connect properly. And his upgrades were more moderately paced.

No shockers, but it is, what I think, a good example of why TvZ is moving away from heavy Mutalisk commitments,

Game 4, reaper expand. Then nothing much. Alive does a blue flame and marine attack that kills a significant amount of zerglings but no drones. Nestea gets the infestation pit, but delays infestors for a faster hive. He does not commit to heavy mutalisk numbers and upgrades. He tries to go for another suicide mission against Alives third which fails. Alive has some pretty good marine drop harass. After the suicide attack, Nestea would have lost if he continued his style of games 1-3. But he got a solid fungal on marines and destroyed them all with banelings. After this he gets broodlords which die because he did not protect them with infestors. (Which were accompanying the lings towards Alives third again, remember how he lost game 1?)

With the broodlords down, Alive goes for the throat. Banelings again hit tanks instead of marines, and remember how I keep repeating staying power? He has none, he has no way to beat the marine medivac army with just lings, the infestors are out of position, he has no broodlords, and no time to make banelings.

Nestea really needed to consolidate his army at the end of this game, and he had it in the bag. Also I noticed he did not expand very aggressively. His play was overly conservative, without committing hard to any of upgrades, lings, mutalisks, infestors, broodlords. He did them all at once and had a poor showing for each role. I think he finished the game with only 2-2 lings.

I think that Nestea lost this series rather than Alive winning it. With the lack of army cohesion, creep spread (part of the next item on the list), and STAYING POWER, he couldn't win.
He could not get the right units at the right place, he could not delay long enough after an engagement with a lack of creep spread (because his units all just suicided) and was punished hard for it.

Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
April 09 2012 01:56 GMT
#2
NesTea has always had problems with sleep and as a result does bad at foreign events, the fact that he pushed Alive and got so far in IPL shows that

NesTea has pretty much never shown good results at foreign events, ever and now he got to the semi finals
SwizzY
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1549 Posts
April 09 2012 02:08 GMT
#3
I stated in IPL thread, and I still strongly believe that the scrappy play of Game 1 that Alive barely won was because Nestea (for lack of APM or lack of awareness) didn't capitalize on the fact that Alive's economy was completely MULE based and therefore would not be able to afford scans for all of his pushes. Baneling bombs/burrow would've crushed the shit out of Alive's constant 1A to Nestea's third.
Hindsight is 20/20, but throughout the game I was more frustrated than entertained at Alive getting away with stretching himself so thin.

Muta/Ling/Bane is a very fragile composition that capitalizes on mistakes that the Terran makes. I think Alive started adapting well to the Muta harass which made him very comfortable... too comfortable. Nestea shouldn't have waited till game 4 to implement infestors, which by far isn't the only reason for why he lost that game (a game he had in the bag), but I think it allowed Alive to adapt to Nestea's game way too comfortably
All that glitters is not gold, all that wander are not lost, the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by frost.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 06:16 GMT
#4
Nestea could not afford to spend the money of burrow research for game 1. He lost that game during the counter attack, in which he lost his third base and failed to do significant ARMY damage to Alive.

The lack of stability in his army composition made the risk of doing suicide mission counter attacks almost game ruining every time. And he lost some games for it. Infestors are a good defensive unit for this.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BlizzCon
18:30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
StarCraft2477
RotterdaM885
ComeBackTV 577
IndyStarCraft 198
EnkiAlexander 85
CosmosSc2 67
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 885
IndyStarCraft 198
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13883
Shuttle 1234
Artosis 827
Dewaltoss 81
CosmosSc2 67
Dota 2
Pyrionflax183
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift5656
JimRising 313
Counter-Strike
byalli1345
Fnx 787
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0314
hungrybox275
Mew2King159
Chillindude17
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu499
Other Games
summit1g11233
Liquid`RaSZi2506
B2W.Neo1318
Tasteless596
Livibee121
XaKoH 118
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2367
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm684
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 531
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH456
• Hupsaiya 69
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki43
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3163
• masondota22089
Other Games
• Shiphtur233
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
12h 44m
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
13h 44m
Monday Night Weeklies
18h 44m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 12h
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
1d 13h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
6 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.