• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:08
CET 06:08
KST 14:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)11Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2750 users

Quick Thoughts on Nestea vs Alive at IPL

Blogs > Thaniri
Post a Reply
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 01:53 GMT
#1
I completely rape the use of the term 'staying power' I could not think of good homophones which I would normally use in any other written document.

Game 1, Alive did an interesting all-in. Nestea had the game won when his overlord flew from the natural cliff to the natural area and saw nothing. However he made drones instead of zerglings.
He holds Alive's allin while losing his natural. Then he did a big zergling, baneling, mutalisk counter attack that I feel was the last nail in the coffin. As a result of losing his standing army, he could never secure a third base for more than a minute, and the cumulative mules of Alive allowed him to match Nestea's economy (which was stunted on 1-1.5 bases at a time since the all-in.)

Game 2, Nestea's style was boring. There was no cleverness to his play, no baneling mines, nothing particularly interesting about it. He had a very hard time holding down a 4th base, meaning that he had 70 drones on 2.5 bases up until the very end and as a result he got pretty poor near the end. He revolved around being mechanically stronger than his opponent. Stating his macro will be better than Alive's and he threw wave after wave after wave of banelings at his opponent.

A problem found in both game 1 and 2, is that banelings have no staying power. An incredibly obvious statement is that they are literally suicide bombers. But I don't think people will quite realize the implications. After each engagement, Nestea did not come ahead a single time. He traded ground armies. In game 1, the engagements after the all-in had both of the ground armies destroyed each time. Nestea was left with mutalisks, and Alive would come a minute later with his next wave. To which Nestea would again trade armies, leaving nothing but mutas, and Alive would keep coming at him. Nestea would run out of money because during these engagements he was losing his 3rd base, each time.
In game 2, if Alive would defend better with his tanks (see moment where he loses all tanks to the banelings, losing his staying power.) He could receive each suicide wave, which has no staying power and if he maintained the good drop play that denied the 4th over and over he would dry Nestea's bank.

Game 3, Alive opens 2 rax. Nestea holds and is slightly ahead of Alive. Nestea goes for a roach baneling counter attack without scouting for a sieged tank. He lost.

Games 1-3 In general, Alive did not particularly impress me. His marine micro vs banelings was not all that great, and he lost a lot of medics and tanks to mutalisks. His macro was standard. It was not Bomber-at-Orlando-esque.

Nestea kept using armies with no staying power. To pull it off he needs to add baneling mines, runbys, overlord speed, burrowing zerglings at bases, overlord creeping the bases. Adding to his inability to stay alive after battles, he could not buy enough time to remake units for the next wave by a lack of solid creep spread. If he had infestors and creep spread, engagements would go much better for him. He could fungal the marines and tie them down for the banelings to actually connect properly. And his upgrades were more moderately paced.

No shockers, but it is, what I think, a good example of why TvZ is moving away from heavy Mutalisk commitments,

Game 4, reaper expand. Then nothing much. Alive does a blue flame and marine attack that kills a significant amount of zerglings but no drones. Nestea gets the infestation pit, but delays infestors for a faster hive. He does not commit to heavy mutalisk numbers and upgrades. He tries to go for another suicide mission against Alives third which fails. Alive has some pretty good marine drop harass. After the suicide attack, Nestea would have lost if he continued his style of games 1-3. But he got a solid fungal on marines and destroyed them all with banelings. After this he gets broodlords which die because he did not protect them with infestors. (Which were accompanying the lings towards Alives third again, remember how he lost game 1?)

With the broodlords down, Alive goes for the throat. Banelings again hit tanks instead of marines, and remember how I keep repeating staying power? He has none, he has no way to beat the marine medivac army with just lings, the infestors are out of position, he has no broodlords, and no time to make banelings.

Nestea really needed to consolidate his army at the end of this game, and he had it in the bag. Also I noticed he did not expand very aggressively. His play was overly conservative, without committing hard to any of upgrades, lings, mutalisks, infestors, broodlords. He did them all at once and had a poor showing for each role. I think he finished the game with only 2-2 lings.

I think that Nestea lost this series rather than Alive winning it. With the lack of army cohesion, creep spread (part of the next item on the list), and STAYING POWER, he couldn't win.
He could not get the right units at the right place, he could not delay long enough after an engagement with a lack of creep spread (because his units all just suicided) and was punished hard for it.

Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
April 09 2012 01:56 GMT
#2
NesTea has always had problems with sleep and as a result does bad at foreign events, the fact that he pushed Alive and got so far in IPL shows that

NesTea has pretty much never shown good results at foreign events, ever and now he got to the semi finals
SwizzY
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1549 Posts
April 09 2012 02:08 GMT
#3
I stated in IPL thread, and I still strongly believe that the scrappy play of Game 1 that Alive barely won was because Nestea (for lack of APM or lack of awareness) didn't capitalize on the fact that Alive's economy was completely MULE based and therefore would not be able to afford scans for all of his pushes. Baneling bombs/burrow would've crushed the shit out of Alive's constant 1A to Nestea's third.
Hindsight is 20/20, but throughout the game I was more frustrated than entertained at Alive getting away with stretching himself so thin.

Muta/Ling/Bane is a very fragile composition that capitalizes on mistakes that the Terran makes. I think Alive started adapting well to the Muta harass which made him very comfortable... too comfortable. Nestea shouldn't have waited till game 4 to implement infestors, which by far isn't the only reason for why he lost that game (a game he had in the bag), but I think it allowed Alive to adapt to Nestea's game way too comfortably
All that glitters is not gold, all that wander are not lost, the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by frost.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 06:16 GMT
#4
Nestea could not afford to spend the money of burrow research for game 1. He lost that game during the counter attack, in which he lost his third base and failed to do significant ARMY damage to Alive.

The lack of stability in his army composition made the risk of doing suicide mission counter attacks almost game ruining every time. And he lost some games for it. Infestors are a good defensive unit for this.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 136
NeuroSwarm 130
Livibee 120
WinterStarcraft56
FoxeR 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 387
zelot 306
Snow 131
ZergMaN 75
Noble 22
Bale 19
Hm[arnc] 15
Icarus 7
League of Legends
JimRising 806
Counter-Strike
summit1g10390
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox495
Other Games
tarik_tv7326
ViBE120
Liquid`Ken18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick5065
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 90
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 35
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1973
• Rush1426
• Lourlo997
• Stunt312
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 52m
Wardi Open
8h 52m
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 52m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
All Star Teams
4 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
[ Show More ]
All Star Teams
5 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-11
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.