• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:39
CEST 02:39
KST 09:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion Do we have a pimpest plays list? AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2203 users

Quick Thoughts on Nestea vs Alive at IPL

Blogs > Thaniri
Post a Reply
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 01:53 GMT
#1
I completely rape the use of the term 'staying power' I could not think of good homophones which I would normally use in any other written document.

Game 1, Alive did an interesting all-in. Nestea had the game won when his overlord flew from the natural cliff to the natural area and saw nothing. However he made drones instead of zerglings.
He holds Alive's allin while losing his natural. Then he did a big zergling, baneling, mutalisk counter attack that I feel was the last nail in the coffin. As a result of losing his standing army, he could never secure a third base for more than a minute, and the cumulative mules of Alive allowed him to match Nestea's economy (which was stunted on 1-1.5 bases at a time since the all-in.)

Game 2, Nestea's style was boring. There was no cleverness to his play, no baneling mines, nothing particularly interesting about it. He had a very hard time holding down a 4th base, meaning that he had 70 drones on 2.5 bases up until the very end and as a result he got pretty poor near the end. He revolved around being mechanically stronger than his opponent. Stating his macro will be better than Alive's and he threw wave after wave after wave of banelings at his opponent.

A problem found in both game 1 and 2, is that banelings have no staying power. An incredibly obvious statement is that they are literally suicide bombers. But I don't think people will quite realize the implications. After each engagement, Nestea did not come ahead a single time. He traded ground armies. In game 1, the engagements after the all-in had both of the ground armies destroyed each time. Nestea was left with mutalisks, and Alive would come a minute later with his next wave. To which Nestea would again trade armies, leaving nothing but mutas, and Alive would keep coming at him. Nestea would run out of money because during these engagements he was losing his 3rd base, each time.
In game 2, if Alive would defend better with his tanks (see moment where he loses all tanks to the banelings, losing his staying power.) He could receive each suicide wave, which has no staying power and if he maintained the good drop play that denied the 4th over and over he would dry Nestea's bank.

Game 3, Alive opens 2 rax. Nestea holds and is slightly ahead of Alive. Nestea goes for a roach baneling counter attack without scouting for a sieged tank. He lost.

Games 1-3 In general, Alive did not particularly impress me. His marine micro vs banelings was not all that great, and he lost a lot of medics and tanks to mutalisks. His macro was standard. It was not Bomber-at-Orlando-esque.

Nestea kept using armies with no staying power. To pull it off he needs to add baneling mines, runbys, overlord speed, burrowing zerglings at bases, overlord creeping the bases. Adding to his inability to stay alive after battles, he could not buy enough time to remake units for the next wave by a lack of solid creep spread. If he had infestors and creep spread, engagements would go much better for him. He could fungal the marines and tie them down for the banelings to actually connect properly. And his upgrades were more moderately paced.

No shockers, but it is, what I think, a good example of why TvZ is moving away from heavy Mutalisk commitments,

Game 4, reaper expand. Then nothing much. Alive does a blue flame and marine attack that kills a significant amount of zerglings but no drones. Nestea gets the infestation pit, but delays infestors for a faster hive. He does not commit to heavy mutalisk numbers and upgrades. He tries to go for another suicide mission against Alives third which fails. Alive has some pretty good marine drop harass. After the suicide attack, Nestea would have lost if he continued his style of games 1-3. But he got a solid fungal on marines and destroyed them all with banelings. After this he gets broodlords which die because he did not protect them with infestors. (Which were accompanying the lings towards Alives third again, remember how he lost game 1?)

With the broodlords down, Alive goes for the throat. Banelings again hit tanks instead of marines, and remember how I keep repeating staying power? He has none, he has no way to beat the marine medivac army with just lings, the infestors are out of position, he has no broodlords, and no time to make banelings.

Nestea really needed to consolidate his army at the end of this game, and he had it in the bag. Also I noticed he did not expand very aggressively. His play was overly conservative, without committing hard to any of upgrades, lings, mutalisks, infestors, broodlords. He did them all at once and had a poor showing for each role. I think he finished the game with only 2-2 lings.

I think that Nestea lost this series rather than Alive winning it. With the lack of army cohesion, creep spread (part of the next item on the list), and STAYING POWER, he couldn't win.
He could not get the right units at the right place, he could not delay long enough after an engagement with a lack of creep spread (because his units all just suicided) and was punished hard for it.

Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
April 09 2012 01:56 GMT
#2
NesTea has always had problems with sleep and as a result does bad at foreign events, the fact that he pushed Alive and got so far in IPL shows that

NesTea has pretty much never shown good results at foreign events, ever and now he got to the semi finals
SwizzY
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1549 Posts
April 09 2012 02:08 GMT
#3
I stated in IPL thread, and I still strongly believe that the scrappy play of Game 1 that Alive barely won was because Nestea (for lack of APM or lack of awareness) didn't capitalize on the fact that Alive's economy was completely MULE based and therefore would not be able to afford scans for all of his pushes. Baneling bombs/burrow would've crushed the shit out of Alive's constant 1A to Nestea's third.
Hindsight is 20/20, but throughout the game I was more frustrated than entertained at Alive getting away with stretching himself so thin.

Muta/Ling/Bane is a very fragile composition that capitalizes on mistakes that the Terran makes. I think Alive started adapting well to the Muta harass which made him very comfortable... too comfortable. Nestea shouldn't have waited till game 4 to implement infestors, which by far isn't the only reason for why he lost that game (a game he had in the bag), but I think it allowed Alive to adapt to Nestea's game way too comfortably
All that glitters is not gold, all that wander are not lost, the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by frost.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
April 09 2012 06:16 GMT
#4
Nestea could not afford to spend the money of burrow research for game 1. He lost that game during the counter attack, in which he lost his third base and failed to do significant ARMY damage to Alive.

The lack of stability in his army composition made the risk of doing suicide mission counter attacks almost game ruining every time. And he lost some games for it. Infestors are a good defensive unit for this.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft414
Temp0 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11501
GuemChi 3873
Artosis 634
NaDa 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever578
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv5212
taco 183
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox454
Other Games
summit1g6764
Liquid`RaSZi1597
shahzam603
C9.Mang0522
Maynarde78
ViBE76
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick551
BasetradeTV501
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream36
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21494
Upcoming Events
GSL
8h 51m
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
10h 21m
OSC
12h 21m
Replay Cast
23h 21m
Escore
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 9h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
1d 15h
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
1d 21h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
BSL
3 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Leta
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.