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On April 08 2012 05:32 vileIllusion wrote:
Some of you guys act like it took no effort for the pros to be where they are today. Scarlett won the sponsor tournament and had a good showing. I worked my way up for over a year, attended tournaments where there were koreans and didn't blame korean/imbalance when I lost, i just worked harder. Players have to also market themselves, beating a few koreans in an online daily where times are not set and most comfortable doesn't mean much, not to mention the lag. Anyways, I'm getting carried away here but what I am trying to say is, make yourself get known, don't just sit there and hope
You forgot you have to get a hype bandwagon behind you as well. That is one of the most important things nowadays, besides being good. If you can get big names to suddenly hype you up, you can get 10x more exposure. There are plenty of NA pros that are working very hard right now, beaten big names, and still have not been noticed because of how hard it is to break into the system.
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Avilo, i hope you don't think you are one of these top NA players. You're even considered a joke by the low tier pros like catz and destiny. Cheesing a game off a top player doesn't mean you deserve or can compete in top tournaments buddy and you're deluded if you think it does.
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We'll see how far she actually gets; I think any team that will serious consider picking her up (if she wishes) would like more than just 1 IPL run. Remember Col.Trimaster? He had a good run through MLG as well. Perhaps not as notable since he didn't beat koreans, but still impressive by a relative no-name at the time. It's nice that she won the sponsor tourny to put on a good showing here at IPL; if she manages to pull another good run we'll have something to cheer for.
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On April 08 2012 17:12 Caelyn0101 wrote:
Avilo, i hope you don't think you are one of these top NA players. You're even considered a joke by the low tier pros like catz and destiny. Cheesing a game off a top player doesn't mean you deserve or can compete in top tournaments buddy and you're deluded if you think it does.
Obviously you're a hater of mine. I wasn't referring to myself, I was referring to the 200+ other amazing NA players/pros that you never hear about.
p.s. i rarely cheese yo
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On January 25 2012 23:03 IdrA wrote:
how do you think i got that chance to develop? i ignored school and didnt have a social life for 2 years in order to win a tournament and move to korea at 18 to sit in a house and play starcraft1 with 0 return for another 3 years
huk played sc2 all day on a shitty computer during the beta when there was no money in it and did everything he could to get to korea and then spent a year+ practicing in a korean house.
most a team pros dont make salaries in korea. none of the b teamers do, the bottom of the barrel doesnt get to live in the house, they just get the priviledge of playing with the team if theyre good enough for people to want to practice with them. you have to sacrifice pretty much everything while you're on your way up. koreans are better because hundreds of them are willing to do it, a handful of nonkoreans are.
It's not like the top pro's didnt put in their time to get where they are,
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Illusion is absolutely correct. I've been around for a long time and what I notice is that unknown players such as illusion, trimaster and scarlett are getting noticed because of their successful runs at big tournaments (which isn't easy when there are koreans). In particular, illusion has been practicing hard for a year or so to got where he is now. After his run at ipl 4, he has proven that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Let's admit it, beating koreans and big names isn't easy feet especially when you play on NA because NA ladder isn't exactly the best practice.
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The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
Last edit: 2012-04-07 11:22:12
This has been old news since forever and I think you already know that it doesn't just pertain to foreign players in this bustling and very young, very unestablished industry/subculture.
The likelihood that there will be a significant change within the next year is low, a gradual change is possible; the problem is that many teams and organizations are valuing two very primodial ideas when looking at players as well as the fact that current regiments are not only lackluster, but achieve nothing in the long-run.
I won't say more, but that's that.
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It's so nice to have a community with respect! I remember when watching wc3 I would always root for PlayRoy (a gay wc3 pro-gamer). He never got to join a clan, so he never had any fancy clan-tag, but that didnt bother him, he used to say "I don't need a tag, I'm a fag!" Humour is what kept him going I guess.
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On April 09 2012 16:26 YaTa wrote:
Illusion is absolutely correct. I've been around for a long time and what I notice is that unknown players such as illusion, trimaster and scarlett are getting noticed because of their successful runs at big tournaments (which isn't easy when there are koreans). In particular, illusion has been practicing hard for a year or so to got where he is now. After his run at ipl 4, he has proven that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Let's admit it, beating koreans and big names isn't easy feet especially when you play on NA because NA ladder isn't exactly the best practice.
doesnt Illusion play on EU/some KR? At least thats what ive seen on his stream. I see no reason to play on NA (assuming high GM mmr) rather than EU or better yet KR/TW as the level of play is simply better. Illusion is a great talented player + hard work which got him to where he is. He doesn't rage or imbalance whine when he loses, he hits find match again.
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The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
That's an interesting observation, but what are your suggestions?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
The reason most current non-korean players are famous despite sucking is because they were the first ones in the scene and were actually able to win stuff (or be top level) back then before Koreans started playing/getting good. This is an inevitable side effect of a new competitive game in a booming entertainment market.
Maybe some of the famous foreign pro's are delusional and think they are unmatched amongst North Americans/Euros still but that is highly unlikely. I think most of them are smart enough to realize that just because they are famous doesn't mean they are the best.
Either way, the gist of your post is that other people deserve more chances at 'becoming a star' because their level of play is equal or better than many 'stars.'
Just because most of the first foreigners to take up SC2 seriously and get pretty good quickly are famous still does not mean new players of their current caliber or better deserve that same fame. The scene has evolved/grown too much with Koreans coming in and showing everyone whos boss.
Obviously marketing yourself to make money and actually being a good player are two different things.
So instead of making a dumb blog suggesting that it's "not fair" and "change needs to be made to give new talents a chance!" how about you attempt to make a new blog detailing what steps players should take to rise to the competitive level.
Or you could just admit Koreans are genetically superior and everyone is fucked.
Theres too much talk about what people deserve or what people don't deserve in the SC2 world. Either be really smart about marketing yourself or get really fucking good and win shit. otherwise don't complain. It's a harsh E-SPORTS jungle out there!
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meh, as far as I'm concerned no one deserves respect unless they can beat the top players in the world(koreans), and I guarantee you anyone who consistently beats top tier koreans WILL get recognized. This seems like a convenient excuse for B-tier foreigners tbh. The only issue I agree on is the prevalence of invite only tournies which obviously stagnates the scene.
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all I really got from this thread is fans of mid tier "known" foreigners are incredibly misguided :/
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Please allow me to disagree with some stuff you said.
Yes there are MANY good players on all ladders that are unknown, however, the "baloney" that pros state such as "It's just ladder!" are not entirely false. NOT to say that play mostly ladder are somehow worse, but if you as you say "give 100% all the time" there will be no improvement. If you are pro and you always give 100% this means never experimenting with any new builds/timings/concepts while laddering. Which also means you are no longer on the cutting edge of the meta game but rather safely in the middle. If you want to be a pro and remain at the top of your game come tournament time you simply HAVE to experiment constantly, and against top level players, which means the ladder is one of the best platforms for doing this as players are random and you will be up against a variety of builds. In saying "it's just ladder!" pros do not mean "ladder is bad" or "I just mess our on ladder" they simply mean, people are more experimental on ladder and they will not necessarily be using their best "Tournament level" builds.
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EPT
