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Are you surprised that the teamless unknown Scarlett is performing so well at the IPL? You shouldn't be. There are 30 players you've never heard of on the North American ladder as good as lower level pros like Catz, Destiny, and Incontrol. And a few (like Scarlett) who are as good as the best, like Idra or Sheth.
How do I know? I watch Pro streams. And when I watch the Pros stream, I watch better players beat them. Now I hear your dogmatic response: "It's just ladder!" Don't buy that hokum Pros peddle. They're just expressing their own ladder fear by downplaying their losses. Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring.
Seeing Scarlett succeed puts me in a blue mood. It makes me think about the current SC2 system where community involvement, publicity, invitationals, and sponsors are King. Idra was a nobody. But today, there are less and less chances for Idras to become Grackens.
You'll respond with more baloney you've heard from established Pros: "There are plenty of daily and weekly tournaments where players can gain notoriety." Well Scarlett won a Playhem tournament which bought her a flight to IPL; be honest, you learned about her today. You don't become a star by setting your stream to live under a Playhem Daily event.
The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
 
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Yeah, your pretty much right on everything you said, surprised we wern't all thinking like this before hand.
edit: no sarcasm above
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maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time...
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On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time...
She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly.
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On April 07 2012 11:18 -_- wrote:
Are you surprised that the teamless unknown Scarlett is performing so well at the IPL? You shouldn't be. There are 30 players you've never heard of on the North American ladder as good as lower level pros like Catz, Destiny, and Incontrol. And a few (like Scarlett) who are as good as the best, like Idra or Sheth.
How do I know? I watch Pro streams. And when I watch the Pros stream, I watch better players beat them. Now I hear your dogmatic response: "It's just ladder!" Don't buy that hokum Pros peddle. They're just expressing their own ladder fear by downplaying their losses. Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring.
Seeing Scarlett succeed puts me in a blue mood. It makes me think about the current SC2 system where community involvement, publicity, invitationals, and sponsors are King. Idra was a nobody. But today, there are less and less chances for Idras to become Grackens.
You'll respond with more baloney you've heard from established Pros: "There are plenty of daily and weekly tournaments where players can gain notoriety." Well Scarlett won a Playhem tournament which bought her a flight to IPL; be honest, you learned about her today. You don't become a star by setting your stream to live under a Playhem Daily event.
The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
I agree with most of your post and hope more people will recognize it and maybe some change could possibly one day come, but I lol'd when I read baloney :D
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Most people watch only the major tournaments. There and there alone does true fortune rest. Thats how we learned of players like trimaster and snute and now starlet. It's unfortunate but playhems just feel sorta ghetto in contrast and unless your a mega starcraft enthusiast it's difficult and seemingly pointless to tune into them regularly.
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That just means if people want to succeed they are responsible for promoting themselves.. it's the same with pretty much everything else from filmmaking to business. In business they call it networking. The saying going "it's about who you know" which is just another way to say "it's about who knows you".
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What race does she plays ? Because if she's Protoss just blame her success on the current metagame imo. Otherwise, big props are deserved!
User was warned for this post
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Well said  Agree completely.
I wish more of them would show up to big tournaments to steal some limelight (although certainly not all of them have the will to, nor the ability to).
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On April 07 2012 11:38 TuElite wrote:
What race does she plays ? Because if she's Protoss just blame her success on the current metagame imo. Otherwise, big props are deserved!
1. Zerg.
2. What the heck makes you think Protoss are stomping at the highest levels o.o Look at some stats please.
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On April 07 2012 11:37 inReacH wrote:
That just means if people want to succeed they are responsible for promoting themselves.. it's the same with pretty much everything else filmmaking to business. In business they call it networking. The saying going "it's about who you know" which is just another way to say "it's about who knows you".
That's great but it's not the point of sports, or esports. I don't really care 'how things are', I care about watching the best players. The number of invitationals vs. open tournaments does not really facilitate watching the best players.
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I agree that the fan community doesn't do a good job coming across these "hidden gems" (do we need to?), but who is to say that talent scouts for sponsored teams don't? It's like the minor leagues in baseball-- they get relatively little attention from fans, but that's where talent scouts look to find new players. It's a bad comparison because a scout for, say, EG would be better off looking at Korea than small U.S. tournaments, but you get the idea.
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Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring.
You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided.
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On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided.
This is what I was about to say.
But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding.
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying... but unfortunately, the fanboyism that exists with most Starcraft fans (including me to a degree) and their favorite players is what sponsors and live events feed off of, and they're the ones pumping the money into eSports, making it hard to establish yourself in the community nowadays.
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I'd love to see players like Sonic and nMXMasa show up to MLG or IPL and tear it up.
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Most of these ladder heroes get brutalized vs low/mid-tier foreign pro's every time they attend MLG or any other offline event. Nerves and the uncomfortable scenario of not playing out of your own home come into play. We have every reason to be surprised. GL to her.
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Ladder is really different from tournament play where your opponents are studying you or familiar with your playstyle, you have to play multi-game series, nerves, etc etc
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On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding.
Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard
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On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding.
If you call that a proof then you're ignoring the hundreds of counter proofs. It doesn't even have to be offline tourneys, online tourneys for money make people nervous enough and become more focused, look at Playhem daily's brackets' players. And those online to tourneys are a lot more like ladder.
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On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard
nothing in this commentary had anything to do with girls... it had to do with the ability to focus and play at 100% at all times, which isn't possible, mentally you just wear out
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On April 07 2012 12:18 Coramoor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard nothing in this commentary had anything to do with girls... it had to do with the ability to focus and play at 100% at all times, which isn't possible, mentally you just wear out
Oh my apologies, I misread, and yeah, I agree with your views on focus. Everyone will get tired at one point
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On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard
The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while.
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yeah the community needs to give more backing towards players like Illusion, Scarlett, Gatored... On that note, does anyone know what happened to Gatored? after the impressive showings at IEM he sort of disappeared.
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On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while.
So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while. Wait, let me break it up for you, starcraf 2 = game. Not.equal.to.muscles.Not.equal.to.sports. get it?
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On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while
You do a good job of making up arguments out of the blue but you can't even properly counter them. I didn't say girl's have weaker brains. And games do require brain power and hand dexterity, whether you like to recognize that or not.
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Agree with OP. Pretty sad how the community is an "old boys club." And a lot of the tournaments promote that by being 95% invite only.
Just the other day i beat white-ra on ladder. But it's just ladder right? I say this because there are people even less known than myself in NA that have beaten high profile players all the time as well, and get ZERO recognition for it. And these "unknowns" would love chances to destroy pros in tournaments as well...except that over half the tournaments are invite only old boys clubs indeed.
So yes, when you hear already established "pros" spewing out the stuff about "do well in tiny online bla bla bla" it's a load of bs. You have to have other high profile people help hype you up, or get a bit lucky, or play the politics game of knowing people. I know perfect mentioned he won a playhem b4 beating 2-3 korean pros in a row...but people don't hear about stuff like that? So even if you do happen to win little things like that it's still insanely hard to get exposure for yourself.
Basically, once you get established or popular you join the tourney invite train bandwagon, which is great for those dudes, but not so great for the 95% of other top notch pros that routinely beat the "known pros" but are stuck in the cycle of "oh, you wanna try to compete - you're not invited."
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On April 07 2012 12:26 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while You do a good job of making up arguments out of the blue but you can't even properly counter them. I didn't say girl's have weaker brains. And games do require brain power and hand dexterity, whether you like to recognize that or not.
Yes yes, you just want to feel better,its okay, I understand. I will be the bigger man and walk away. have fun being sexist, that will get you a wife
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This is exactly one of the major problems of the foreign scene and why it has fallen behind. It's heavily based on personality in addition to skill, whereas Koreans are focused only on performance (barring exceptions like Boxer, Nada, and July).
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On April 07 2012 12:27 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:26 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while You do a good job of making up arguments out of the blue but you can't even properly counter them. I didn't say girl's have weaker brains. And games do require brain power and hand dexterity, whether you like to recognize that or not. Yes yes, you just want to feel better,its okay, I understand. I will be the bigger man and walk away. have fun being sexist, that will get you a wife
You are the only one in this thread mentioning gender. The poster who said that not everyone's brain is equal is most likely referring to your statement: " everyone is equal, unless you are a retard."
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On April 07 2012 12:27 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:26 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while You do a good job of making up arguments out of the blue but you can't even properly counter them. I didn't say girl's have weaker brains. And games do require brain power and hand dexterity, whether you like to recognize that or not. Yes yes, you just want to feel better,its okay, I understand. I will be the bigger man and walk away. have fun being sexist, that will get you a wife
Your trolly comment made me lol. I'm sure you get a kick out of trying to irritate some random person on the internet. And I will have fun being sexist because thats what sexists do, we have fun with women. Women are attracted to masculinity. Not effeminate girl power advocates.
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1:0 for Scaban, well done.
Scarlett 2-0'd Demuslim. Damn, must be hard on demuslim...
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On April 07 2012 12:38 Bagration wrote:
This is exactly one of the major problems of the foreign scene and why it has fallen behind. It's heavily based on personality in addition to skill, whereas Koreans are focused only on performance (barring exceptions like Boxer, Nada, and July).
that's not true. a huge part of korean bw consists of being fans of specific players.
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On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly.
wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently
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On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently
It's an ID used a lot on KR. I guess a bunch of people got bored coming up with names for all their smurfs because there's atleast 10 of them in GM.
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On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently
I heard a lot of Koreans use that name so that it is harder to steal their builds/know who they are when they ladder. I don't know about NA server though.
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You're wrong. There aren't 30 or so people just dying to get attention, there are probably more like 100.
Here's the thing wanna-be pros need to realize: they are a dime a dozen. It is nice to see "unknowns" do well, but pretending that they "deserve more attention" before they do well in a major tournament is dumb. The scene has proven time and time again you need to either:
A) Be good enough to take games off of top pros, because that is entertaining
or
B) You need to have a good/unique/entertaining personality to stand out from the card-board-cut-out nerds that overpopulate the scene.
Without one of those things, you are just another face in the crowd that is trying to get your name out there. There are 50+ nerds with nothing but time on their hands to take your place. You may not like it, but that is the way this works, and it works well. People watch to be entertained. If you aren't entertaining, one way or another, you won't get attention, and don't deserve it.
For every 1 NA/EU player that fits in this category, there are probably 10 Korean "unknowns" that are just as good.
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On April 07 2012 12:59 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently It's an ID used a lot on KR. I guess a bunch of people got bored coming up with names for all their smurfs because there's atleast 10 of them in GM.
ah, this was on NA tho, the acct wasn't gm but was rather high master and probably has low gm mmr (started out my ladder day w/2 gms in a row so the mmr should be similar for that acct)
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On April 07 2012 13:01 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:59 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently It's an ID used a lot on KR. I guess a bunch of people got bored coming up with names for all their smurfs because there's atleast 10 of them in GM. ah, this was on NA tho, the acct wasn't gm but was rather high master and probably has low gm mmr (started out my ladder day w/2 gms in a row so the mmr should be similar for that acct)
Hate to burst your bubble but that probably wasn't Scarlett, as her barcode account is top 10 GM. Sounds like the barcode fad is making its way over to NA, time to use my name change lol.
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On April 07 2012 12:27 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:26 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while You do a good job of making up arguments out of the blue but you can't even properly counter them. I didn't say girl's have weaker brains. And games do require brain power and hand dexterity, whether you like to recognize that or not. Yes yes, you just want to feel better,its okay, I understand. I will be the bigger man and walk away. have fun being sexist, that will get you a wife
LOL.
Holy shit you're an idiot. He's not being sexist, you moron. Not everyone has purely identical brains that allots everyone the exact same amount of potential in every facet of life. That has nothing to do with gender, that's a physiological fact of life.
Go develop some reading comprehension before you post.
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On April 07 2012 13:08 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:01 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 12:59 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently It's an ID used a lot on KR. I guess a bunch of people got bored coming up with names for all their smurfs because there's atleast 10 of them in GM. ah, this was on NA tho, the acct wasn't gm but was rather high master and probably has low gm mmr (started out my ladder day w/2 gms in a row so the mmr should be similar for that acct) Hate to burst your bubble but that probably wasn't Scarlett, as her barcode account is top 10 GM. Sounds like the barcode fad is making its way over to NA, time to use my name change lol.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3076008/1/lIllIIIlIlII/
Just for people who are wondering, that's Scarlett's "barcode" account, confirmed by her posting the link in her fanclub. 75% winrate over ~350 games, not bad at all.
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I love Scarlett's performance so much. I am massively impressed by watch she has achieved.
However, I wish so much she will get on a team. Female members on teams are reserved for pretty poster girls who have proven nothing. Of all of them, so far Aphrodite has shown the best promise.
Here is someone who has done something spectacular (remember when goswser finally got into coL for beating polt? once?)
However, I don't want to be mean. But she is no super model here. So, if someone like lastshadow (who is GM on the korean ladder), or everize (significantly high masters on korea) can't get picked up by a big name team, what's she got? That is a shame because here is the first female who has publicly proven skill at a LAN and I don't think she will get on to a team because she is not as good looking as the other girls.
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On April 07 2012 12:45 TuElite wrote:
1:0 for Scaban, well done.
Scarlett 2-0'd Demuslim. Damn, must be hard on demuslim...
It's the fact that there are people out there who are just as good if not better than them.
I definitely agree when I see the same players and line-ups. Sometimes it is hard to get your name out there.
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On April 07 2012 13:19 Thaniri wrote:
However, I don't want to be mean. But she is no super model here. So, if someone like lastshadow (who is GM on the korean ladder), or everize (significantly high masters on korea) can't get picked up by a big name team, what's she got? That is a shame because here is the first female who has publicly proven skill at a LAN and I don't think she will get on to a team because she is not as good looking as the other girls.
Just being a girl is enough. A lot of people don't really care about how she looks and just think that it's cool that a girl is doing well; that's marketability right there, sex appeal helps but isn't all of why people care about female players.
I, for one, don't give a shit about female players that are cute but can't hold their own against pro players, but I think it's really cool that Scarlett can.
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On April 07 2012 11:18 -_- wrote:
The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
I am Quoting you on this one
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On April 07 2012 13:00 HardlyNever wrote:
You're wrong. There aren't 30 or so people just dying to get attention, there are probably more like 100.
Here's the thing wanna-be pros need to realize: they are a dime a dozen. It is nice to see "unknowns" do well, but pretending that they "deserve more attention" before they do well in a major tournament is dumb. The scene has proven time and time again you need to either:
A) Be good enough to take games off of top pros, because that is entertaining
or
B) You need to have a good/unique/entertaining personality to stand out from the card-board-cut-out nerds that overpopulate the scene.
Without one of those things, you are just another face in the crowd that is trying to get your name out there. There are 50+ nerds with nothing but time on their hands to take your place. You may not like it, but that is the way this works, and it works well. People watch to be entertained. If you aren't entertaining, one way or another, you won't get attention, and don't deserve it.
For every 1 NA/EU player that fits in this category, there are probably 10 Korean "unknowns" that are just as good.
I don't think any unknown pros are looking to "deserve more attention." What they want is a community that has open qualifiers rather than invite the same people over and over again.
They most likely want a tournament environment where they are able to join, regardless of their popularity, and if they beat known pros, then that is awesome and will allow them to move up. Rather than the, "oh, no one knows you good enough yet, so we're not going to invite you because you won't give our tournament more exposure..."
What you just described is what every really good player does not want. They want it so they can actually join tournaments and beat people to get known. Invite-only tournament formats stifle new players from being able to enter the scene as easily, while they support already known pros that may or may not be up to snuff.
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On April 07 2012 13:33 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:19 Thaniri wrote:
However, I don't want to be mean. But she is no super model here. So, if someone like lastshadow (who is GM on the korean ladder), or everize (significantly high masters on korea) can't get picked up by a big name team, what's she got? That is a shame because here is the first female who has publicly proven skill at a LAN and I don't think she will get on to a team because she is not as good looking as the other girls. Just being a girl is enough. A lot of people don't really care about how she looks and just think that it's cool that a girl is doing well; that's marketability right there, sex appeal helps but isn't all of why people care about female players. I, for one, don't give a shit about female players that are cute but can't hold their own against pro players, but I think it's really cool that Scarlett can.
That's how I feel too. I bet a lot of pro-teams are kicking themselves right now for snapping up mid/low masters level female players last year when now the real deal has arrived. Cough *e-sahara* Cough
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On April 07 2012 13:42 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:00 HardlyNever wrote:
You're wrong. There aren't 30 or so people just dying to get attention, there are probably more like 100.
Here's the thing wanna-be pros need to realize: they are a dime a dozen. It is nice to see "unknowns" do well, but pretending that they "deserve more attention" before they do well in a major tournament is dumb. The scene has proven time and time again you need to either:
A) Be good enough to take games off of top pros, because that is entertaining
or
B) You need to have a good/unique/entertaining personality to stand out from the card-board-cut-out nerds that overpopulate the scene.
Without one of those things, you are just another face in the crowd that is trying to get your name out there. There are 50+ nerds with nothing but time on their hands to take your place. You may not like it, but that is the way this works, and it works well. People watch to be entertained. If you aren't entertaining, one way or another, you won't get attention, and don't deserve it.
For every 1 NA/EU player that fits in this category, there are probably 10 Korean "unknowns" that are just as good. I don't think any unknown pros are looking to "deserve more attention." What they want is a community that has open qualifiers rather than invite the same people over and over again. They most likely want a tournament environment where they are able to join, regardless of their popularity, and if they beat known pros, then that is awesome and will allow them to move up. Rather than the, "oh, no one knows you good enough yet, so we're not going to invite you because you won't give our tournament more exposure..." What you just described is what every really good player does not want. They want it so they can actually join tournaments and beat people to get known. Invite-only tournament formats stifle new players from being able to enter the scene as easily, while they support already known pros that may or may not be up to snuff.
These formats exist. IPL has an open bracket. Most MLG events have open brackets. NASL has an open bracket. What more do you want? Yes, these are usually tied to invite-only qualifiers, where known players have an advantage over unknowns.
We are operating in an environment with limited resources. In a perfect world every single tournament would be open-bracket only from start to finish. Every tournament would also take a week+ to finish. Not going to happen.
There are plenty of places where unknowns can prove themselves. Is it difficult? Yes, but that is how it will always be, because resources are limited. If you truly are capable of playing with the pros, the avenues are there.
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...She's getting attention now. Which shows that no-name gamers can get attention if they play well. I don't understand the point of this thread.
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On April 07 2012 13:08 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:01 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 12:59 CAPSLOCKLOL wrote:On April 07 2012 12:54 unit wrote:On April 07 2012 11:37 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 07 2012 11:34 beg wrote:
maybe if scarlett didnt ladder with the |||||||||||| account all the time... She used to use the "Scarlett" account quite a lot... actually I think she's been in GM since Season 2 if my memory serves me correctly. wait...llllllllll is scarlett?????? god damn i was wondering who llllllll was (i consider it a bad name for an actual name and figured it had to be a smurf acct) after i was demolished by llllllllll 3-1 on ladder recently It's an ID used a lot on KR. I guess a bunch of people got bored coming up with names for all their smurfs because there's atleast 10 of them in GM. ah, this was on NA tho, the acct wasn't gm but was rather high master and probably has low gm mmr (started out my ladder day w/2 gms in a row so the mmr should be similar for that acct) Hate to burst your bubble but that probably wasn't Scarlett, as her barcode account is top 10 GM. Sounds like the barcode fad is making its way over to NA, time to use my name change lol.
i don't mind if it wasn't her but i still want to know who it was since the injects were perfect all game along w/a perfectly executed stephano roach push into muta play into infestor bl it was just perfectly played textbook ZvP
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NA is harder to get noticed in since NA online tournaments are super Korean-heavy. Gotta get up early to play in EU tournaments or be like Scarlett or Illusion and do well in a live open bracket.
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MLG has its Open Bracket.
IPL has its Open Bracket
NASL has an Open Bracket.
DreamHack has an Open tourney.
You can apply for a seed in ASUS ROG Assembly.
You can join IEM by winning its qualifiers (I think it's Go4SC2)?
GSL has Code B and Code A qualifiers.
You can work hard to get up to GM of NA and EU. It's easy now to play on the Korean ladder because you can get a TW account to play there and work even harder to get up to KR Masters.
I don't know the specifics of how to join these things, as I have never joined any of them yet. But there are lots of opportunities out there for NA and EU players. It's also great that SEA players also get an NA account, so they'd be able to join in too for the online qualis, but they would not be so lucky if the qualifiers were in LANs because of travel and hotel expenses, etc.
But the hard part is finding a sponsored 'pro' team. You can work hard off ladder and get into practice groups for high level players, and do really well and get a top 8, 16, 32 finish in qualifiers and online tourneys. But now there is no clear cut, defined way to get into a pro team.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
There are a lot of good players on all of the ladders, however a lot of the open bracket spots that would normally go to NA players are going to Koreans and the other NA players that make it are the so called 'old boys club'. To break into the scene now, you really have to be a phenomenal player.
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On April 07 2012 15:12 Plexa wrote:
There are a lot of good players on all of the ladders, however a lot of the open bracket spots that would normally go to NA players are going to Koreans and the other NA players that make it are the so called 'old boys club'. To break into the scene now, you really have to be a phenomenal player.
I see a ton of nonames signed up whenever there is an open bracket in a tournament. It is tough, however, to break through with all of the koreans and US pros here. But it certainly does mean that whenever a noname like Scarlett breaks through, people take notice.
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On April 07 2012 15:12 Plexa wrote:
There are a lot of good players on all of the ladders, however a lot of the open bracket spots that would normally go to NA players are going to Koreans and the other NA players that make it are the so called 'old boys club'. To break into the scene now, you really have to be a phenomenal player.
Phenomenal and have the cash to fly yourself out to tournaments.
The "old boys club" doesn't just apply to invites but sponsorship as well. There are many players who are getting a salary, housing, and airfare while not producing results. Not now, not ever. Its a shame to see some of the biggest teams milk their players popularity rather than their skill.
I'd say there are quite a few freelance players who put more effort into practice than many pampered "pro" players.
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 07 2012 16:06 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 15:12 Plexa wrote:
There are a lot of good players on all of the ladders, however a lot of the open bracket spots that would normally go to NA players are going to Koreans and the other NA players that make it are the so called 'old boys club'. To break into the scene now, you really have to be a phenomenal player. Phenomenal and have the cash to fly yourself out to tournaments. The "old boys club" doesn't just apply to invites but sponsorship as well. There are many players who are getting a salary, housing, and airfare while not producing results. Not now, not ever. Its a shame to see some of the biggest teams milk their players popularity rather than their skill. I'd say there are quite a few freelance players who put more effort into practice than many pampered "pro" players.
I still think if you crush in online tournaments, even something just like playing in every Playhem daily and place well constantly you will get noticed, and then earn your shot at a lan. Even for MLG now (and IPL did too) you can play $10 to play in the online qualifier.
There's no question there's a lot of sponsored players now that are inferior to unsponsored players, but that's just reality and it will always be like that.
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One thing that i havn't seen touched on is a lot of the current sponsorship players who aren't getting the results lately, (your old boys club) Idra and Incontrol come to mind, will likely continue to get renewal contracts for as long as they so desire to play SC2.
The reason that these players will constantly get contract renewals is because they're personalities (love them or hate them) help grow the brand. Part of sponsorships are taking players in who you can market. A player like Idra with his bm, and how mechanically sound he is, will always have fans, regardless of results posted. Incontrol has quite a love/hate relationship with the community, but he has his hands in what seems like EVERYTHING. Which is so great for branding. To be a bit bold, I'd imagine sponsorship wise, the sponsors find him a much bigger asset to EG's sponsors than a Puma or a JYP in the EG organization. Purely based off of how involved in community events he is.
Now, since people like to troll, and will likely attempt to take what i said as an attempt to put the two players i used as an example down allow me to place a disclaimer on this post:
Let me first say that I love Incontrol as a personality, and as a player and wish him the best as he continues to try his best to improve. I know he's been busting ass in an attempt to post positive results, you can see it on his stream every day. As for Idra after watching IPL today, he played beautifully against bomber in games 1 and 2, but he lost a lot of drones maynarding to hellions, and a 4th, to the army followed by all of his burrow infestors getting sniped by a lucky scan by bomber. After that his focus yet again unraveled. Idra will start posting results once he stops getting into his own head. He makes 1 mistake, or something doesn't go his way in a match and he goes onto insta-tilt. You could really see it in his face that he was going to lose the next 3 matches after the game 2 loss that he essentially had won until the mistake of losing all those drones and hte unluckiness of losing all of his infestors.
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What a downer.
Even the least player can go to a big tournament and beat somebody well-known in the open bracket. They gain notoriety and 3 hipsters go on saying that they liked player x before he/she got famous. Good for Scarlett. Your example of IdrA being a nobody has no backing. He entered SC2 with a BM attitude and "good skill toi have" carriers for BW. Bad example, in my opinion. The example of a player not getting noticed in Playhem then getting some notoriety in IPL 4 is a good thing, and deserves some attaboy reaction. The is exactly contrary to what you claim is an old boys club. New names surface from a variety of sources. These players get some interest as the community waits for more tourney results to confirm he/she isn't a flash in the pan.
You ignore the high optimism that Scarlett's story should inspire, and similarly ignore the progression of skill. The first tournament that shows decent matchings is not the beginning and end of that player's story. It's a starting place to strengthen the player's resolve to practice harder and prepare for the next tournament. There's plenty of hope for a new player to gain the chant "North America, North America" for. Your cynicism is unfounded.
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On April 07 2012 12:23 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:20 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 12:15 SeventhPride wrote:On April 07 2012 12:01 scaban84 wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Count9 wrote:Starcraft 2, unlike physical sports, is a game where you can give 100% all the time. There is no sparring. You're so wrong it hurts. If you think anyone pro at anything, including but not limited to starcraft, maintains the same focus and puts forth the same energy in all practice games as they do in tournament games you're incredibly misguided. This is what I was about to say. But Scarletts current success at IPL is proof in the pudding. Why is he wrong? Physical sports involve muscles and strength, girls have a disadvantage in that area, but in games, I don't see them having a disadvantage against guys. I don't care about people calling it e-sports but saying it needs physical strength is stupid since e-sports is all about the mind. AND everyone is equal, unless you are a retard The brain is a muscle, and everyone is not equal. I will let that sink in for a while. So you are one of those who thinks that girls are weaker in a game? lol, you are funny. But news flash, starcraft 2 is a game, it DOESN'T involve you building up muscles. its a game, I will let that sink in for a while. Wait, let me break it up for you, starcraf 2 = game. Not.equal.to.muscles.Not.equal.to.sports. get it?
He was saying girls are stupid.
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Italy12246 Posts
Another problem that exists right now is that it is so much harder for a foreigner to enter a major team, because if the same major team is looking for a player it will simply go after a korean, which would cost just as much and, let's face it, most likely bring better results (at least in the short run).
A decent example is what happened to Axslav, who went from being on one of the biggest foreign teams to a very small one in a matter of weeks.
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Isn't it sort of the same way in physical sports? If we take football, for instance, there are players that are (sometimes literally) worshipped for their skill. Most, if not all of them, play in popular clubs with huge sponsorships, huge fan following etc.
However, the truth is that for every Messi there are tens of players with similar potential and skill who play in clubs that only compete on a national level. Sure, a local fan will know and support them, but a more casual follower who only watches the Champions League and World Cup will have never heard of them.
For me it's great that relatively unknown players get a crack at qualifying for premier events like IPL. And a lot of tournaments these days have online qualifiers, don't they?
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What will happen if Scarlett continues to have success, the koreans will figure her out pretty quickly and then the streak will end. This has happened to basically every foreigner out there. That's why the players who have had continued success in the highest levels of play (e.g. GSL) are the ones worthy of respect.
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... the players you mentioned aren't better than a Code A player.
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On April 07 2012 18:33 Azzur wrote:
What will happen if Scarlett continues to have success, the koreans will figure her out pretty quickly and then the streak will end. This has happened to basically every foreigner out there. That's why the players who have had continued success in the highest levels of play (e.g. GSL) are the ones worthy of respect.
Figure out what exactly? From what I saw it was pretty standard play, with good execution for the most part.
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On April 07 2012 11:38 TuElite wrote:
What race does she plays ? Because if she's Protoss just blame her success on the current metagame imo. Otherwise, big props are deserved!
User was warned for this post
Oh the ignorant responses can always be expected.
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On April 07 2012 18:33 Azzur wrote:
What will happen if Scarlett continues to have success, the koreans will figure her out pretty quickly and then the streak will end. This has happened to basically every foreigner out there. That's why the players who have had continued success in the highest levels of play (e.g. GSL) are the ones worthy of respect.
Perhaps the Koreans will figure her out. Perhaps she will only get better. Perhaps she will fade away. None of us know of what lies ahead, but that is what makes this storyline so awesome.
The beauty of Scarlett's situation is that she is literally almost at the beginning of her progaming career aside from a few Iron Lady tournaments and that Playhem qualifier. According to her interview with Hot_Bid, she has only been playing since last April, and her practice so far has only been on-and-off. Unlike the vast majority of existing progamers, I haven't heard anything about her experience in previous games like BW or WC3, though that might be revealed later.
From my point of view, she is the most exciting fresh blood on the scene at this moment. With only a year of playtime, with seemingly no professional experience in previous RTS games, practicing on a shitty Mac laptop incapable of streaming, with an on-and-off practice schedule, and completely teamless, she was able to have a miracle performance against actual progamers with extremely strong play.
I'm personally excited about her potential more than anything else, especially considering how she was able to achieve so much at IPL4 despite getting by with so little professional training and equipment. I honestly would've been skeptical of her wins had I not seen her games against Oz, but she played immaculate macro games against a strong Protoss. Plus, it wasn't anything particularly unique. Just solid play with some brilliant but sometimes unrefined decision-making. I don't think there is much for a Korean to figure out about her other than that she has exceptionally solid mechanics and decision-making for an unknown, top GM ladder player on NA.
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On April 07 2012 19:21 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:38 TuElite wrote:
What race does she plays ? Because if she's Protoss just blame her success on the current metagame imo. Otherwise, big props are deserved!
User was warned for this post Oh the ignorant responses can always be expected.
I guess most didn't get that I posted this right after MC vs PuMa @IPL... But yeah she's Zerg so big props to her. Like most said, I personally hope she doesn't end up on a top team just because of this. Probably won't, for obvious reasons.
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Yeah breaking onto the scene is a real bitch nowadays in NA. The playhems (yea people think they are so so easy to get notoriety in). But they are pretty damned stacked nowadays. Half of TSL plays in the EU/NA ones and you have to go like 6 rounds of bo1. And even if you win you don't get anything out of it because no one watches it :D
The only way to become known is to pull a Scarlett and do well in a major tournament. This opportunity doesn't come up often. Maybe a handful of times a year maybe even less if you aren't on a team that supports you and sends you to these events. It's a vicious cycle because you won't even be able to prove yourself at these events because you don't have any notable accomplishments to your name in the first place. So why would a team take a gamble and send you? It's obviously understandable why it's like this but this is a major reason why it's incredibly hard to break onto the scene for new blood.
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She did a great job at IPL. she 2-0'ed demuslim, 2-1'ed terious, and eveen took a round off of FXOz. She's a beast. with proper training im sure she could be the next american hope.
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On April 07 2012 18:48 quickml wrote:
... the players you mentioned aren't better than a Code A player.
If I remember correctly, FXOz is code S and she even took a game off of him.
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On April 07 2012 11:18 -_- wrote:
Idra was a nobody. But today, there are less and less chances for Idras to become Grackens.
O.o
Idra was one of the most talented BW pro's and one of the very very few to earn a spot on a pro BW team. Sure, he wasn't top of the beta, but he performed very well in the early GSL's and more than earned his strong SC2 reputation AND maintained it with strong showing in many MLG's and other tournaments. Lately he hasn't been doing well in tournaments but he still plays like a beast.
I agree, though. When a player is sponsored and contracted it's expected they will keep showing strong results. Sponsorships are limited and a lot of them went to the top of the scene a long time ago. Playing SC2 well is one thing, fueling an entertainment enterprise is another. I have no doubt Scarlett will get some form of sponsorship based on her performance, but that's only because she entertained the masses with her upsets.
And let's face it, if so many good players weren't doomed to obscurity there would never be huge upsets from a relative unknown.
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Of course it's hard to break into the scene. It requires you to win against current professional players in a big event. But since when was being a pro-gamer supposed to be easy? All of the players that DO manage wins against top players get a huge amount of buzz. Remember TriMasters run in that MLG and how much buzz he got. And now look at Scarlett now. The bottom line is that if you post the results you WILL get noticed. It's just that no one cares about tiny online tournaments. Those are good ways to test your mettle against top players and get practice, but they are not good ways to get noticed.
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Some of you guys act like it took no effort for the pros to be where they are today. Scarlett won the sponsor tournament and had a good showing. I worked my way up for over a year, attended tournaments where there were koreans and didn't blame korean/imbalance when I lost, i just worked harder. Players have to also market themselves, beating a few koreans in an online daily where times are not set and most comfortable doesn't mean much, not to mention the lag. Anyways, I'm getting carried away here but what I am trying to say is, make yourself get known, don't just sit there and hope
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Some of you guys act like it took no effort for the pros to be where they are today. Scarlett won the sponsor tournament and had a good showing. I worked my way up for over a year, attended tournaments where there were koreans and didn't blame korean/imbalance when I lost, i just worked harder. Players have to also market themselves, beating a few koreans in an online daily where times are not set and most comfortable doesn't mean much, not to mention the lag. Anyways, I'm getting carried away here but what I am trying to say is, make yourself get known, don't just sit there and hope.
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On April 08 2012 05:32 vileIllusion wrote:
Some of you guys act like it took no effort for the pros to be where they are today. Scarlett won the sponsor tournament and had a good showing. I worked my way up for over a year, attended tournaments where there were koreans and didn't blame korean/imbalance when I lost, i just worked harder. Players have to also market themselves, beating a few koreans in an online daily where times are not set and most comfortable doesn't mean much, not to mention the lag. Anyways, I'm getting carried away here but what I am trying to say is, make yourself get known, don't just sit there and hope.
You had a hell of a run yourself man Congrats! I also agree with you A few of my guys have made finals in playhems, taken out Inori 2-0 in PvP... takes a hell of a lot just to make like 50 people remember -.- lol
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Triple post actually.
Also it's "talent toi have" not "skill", Danglars.
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On April 08 2012 05:32 vileIllusion wrote:
Some of you guys act like it took no effort for the pros to be where they are today. Scarlett won the sponsor tournament and had a good showing. I worked my way up for over a year, attended tournaments where there were koreans and didn't blame korean/imbalance when I lost, i just worked harder. Players have to also market themselves, beating a few koreans in an online daily where times are not set and most comfortable doesn't mean much, not to mention the lag. Anyways, I'm getting carried away here but what I am trying to say is, make yourself get known, don't just sit there and hope
You forgot you have to get a hype bandwagon behind you as well. That is one of the most important things nowadays, besides being good. If you can get big names to suddenly hype you up, you can get 10x more exposure. There are plenty of NA pros that are working very hard right now, beaten big names, and still have not been noticed because of how hard it is to break into the system.
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Avilo, i hope you don't think you are one of these top NA players. You're even considered a joke by the low tier pros like catz and destiny. Cheesing a game off a top player doesn't mean you deserve or can compete in top tournaments buddy and you're deluded if you think it does.
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We'll see how far she actually gets; I think any team that will serious consider picking her up (if she wishes) would like more than just 1 IPL run. Remember Col.Trimaster? He had a good run through MLG as well. Perhaps not as notable since he didn't beat koreans, but still impressive by a relative no-name at the time. It's nice that she won the sponsor tourny to put on a good showing here at IPL; if she manages to pull another good run we'll have something to cheer for.
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On April 08 2012 17:12 Caelyn0101 wrote:
Avilo, i hope you don't think you are one of these top NA players. You're even considered a joke by the low tier pros like catz and destiny. Cheesing a game off a top player doesn't mean you deserve or can compete in top tournaments buddy and you're deluded if you think it does.
Obviously you're a hater of mine. I wasn't referring to myself, I was referring to the 200+ other amazing NA players/pros that you never hear about.
p.s. i rarely cheese yo
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On January 25 2012 23:03 IdrA wrote:
how do you think i got that chance to develop? i ignored school and didnt have a social life for 2 years in order to win a tournament and move to korea at 18 to sit in a house and play starcraft1 with 0 return for another 3 years
huk played sc2 all day on a shitty computer during the beta when there was no money in it and did everything he could to get to korea and then spent a year+ practicing in a korean house.
most a team pros dont make salaries in korea. none of the b teamers do, the bottom of the barrel doesnt get to live in the house, they just get the priviledge of playing with the team if theyre good enough for people to want to practice with them. you have to sacrifice pretty much everything while you're on your way up. koreans are better because hundreds of them are willing to do it, a handful of nonkoreans are.
It's not like the top pro's didnt put in their time to get where they are,
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Illusion is absolutely correct. I've been around for a long time and what I notice is that unknown players such as illusion, trimaster and scarlett are getting noticed because of their successful runs at big tournaments (which isn't easy when there are koreans). In particular, illusion has been practicing hard for a year or so to got where he is now. After his run at ipl 4, he has proven that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Let's admit it, beating koreans and big names isn't easy feet especially when you play on NA because NA ladder isn't exactly the best practice.
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The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
Last edit: 2012-04-07 11:22:12
This has been old news since forever and I think you already know that it doesn't just pertain to foreign players in this bustling and very young, very unestablished industry/subculture.
The likelihood that there will be a significant change within the next year is low, a gradual change is possible; the problem is that many teams and organizations are valuing two very primodial ideas when looking at players as well as the fact that current regiments are not only lackluster, but achieve nothing in the long-run.
I won't say more, but that's that.
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It's so nice to have a community with respect! I remember when watching wc3 I would always root for PlayRoy (a gay wc3 pro-gamer). He never got to join a clan, so he never had any fancy clan-tag, but that didnt bother him, he used to say "I don't need a tag, I'm a fag!" Humour is what kept him going I guess.
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On April 09 2012 16:26 YaTa wrote:
Illusion is absolutely correct. I've been around for a long time and what I notice is that unknown players such as illusion, trimaster and scarlett are getting noticed because of their successful runs at big tournaments (which isn't easy when there are koreans). In particular, illusion has been practicing hard for a year or so to got where he is now. After his run at ipl 4, he has proven that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Let's admit it, beating koreans and big names isn't easy feet especially when you play on NA because NA ladder isn't exactly the best practice.
doesnt Illusion play on EU/some KR? At least thats what ive seen on his stream. I see no reason to play on NA (assuming high GM mmr) rather than EU or better yet KR/TW as the level of play is simply better. Illusion is a great talented player + hard work which got him to where he is. He doesn't rage or imbalance whine when he loses, he hits find match again.
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The Starcraft 2 foreigner scene -- particularly North America -- has become an old boys club. Americans better hope that changes or the only player they'll be able to chant "USA" for will be Stephano.
That's an interesting observation, but what are your suggestions?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
The reason most current non-korean players are famous despite sucking is because they were the first ones in the scene and were actually able to win stuff (or be top level) back then before Koreans started playing/getting good. This is an inevitable side effect of a new competitive game in a booming entertainment market.
Maybe some of the famous foreign pro's are delusional and think they are unmatched amongst North Americans/Euros still but that is highly unlikely. I think most of them are smart enough to realize that just because they are famous doesn't mean they are the best.
Either way, the gist of your post is that other people deserve more chances at 'becoming a star' because their level of play is equal or better than many 'stars.'
Just because most of the first foreigners to take up SC2 seriously and get pretty good quickly are famous still does not mean new players of their current caliber or better deserve that same fame. The scene has evolved/grown too much with Koreans coming in and showing everyone whos boss.
Obviously marketing yourself to make money and actually being a good player are two different things.
So instead of making a dumb blog suggesting that it's "not fair" and "change needs to be made to give new talents a chance!" how about you attempt to make a new blog detailing what steps players should take to rise to the competitive level.
Or you could just admit Koreans are genetically superior and everyone is fucked.
Theres too much talk about what people deserve or what people don't deserve in the SC2 world. Either be really smart about marketing yourself or get really fucking good and win shit. otherwise don't complain. It's a harsh E-SPORTS jungle out there!
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meh, as far as I'm concerned no one deserves respect unless they can beat the top players in the world(koreans), and I guarantee you anyone who consistently beats top tier koreans WILL get recognized. This seems like a convenient excuse for B-tier foreigners tbh. The only issue I agree on is the prevalence of invite only tournies which obviously stagnates the scene.
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all I really got from this thread is fans of mid tier "known" foreigners are incredibly misguided :/
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Please allow me to disagree with some stuff you said.
Yes there are MANY good players on all ladders that are unknown, however, the "baloney" that pros state such as "It's just ladder!" are not entirely false. NOT to say that play mostly ladder are somehow worse, but if you as you say "give 100% all the time" there will be no improvement. If you are pro and you always give 100% this means never experimenting with any new builds/timings/concepts while laddering. Which also means you are no longer on the cutting edge of the meta game but rather safely in the middle. If you want to be a pro and remain at the top of your game come tournament time you simply HAVE to experiment constantly, and against top level players, which means the ladder is one of the best platforms for doing this as players are random and you will be up against a variety of builds. In saying "it's just ladder!" pros do not mean "ladder is bad" or "I just mess our on ladder" they simply mean, people are more experimental on ladder and they will not necessarily be using their best "Tournament level" builds.
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EPT
