EPTSC2 vs LoL; Or Why Do I Suck At League Of Legends? - Page 2
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phantaxx
United States201 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
On April 05 2012 08:20 Leeoku wrote: buy wards this. if you do this I guarantee you go up at least 100 ELO. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
On April 05 2012 08:42 NexUmbra wrote: The argument “why aren’t old DotA pros flocking to LoL for free money?” is awful and is similar to the other equally awful argument posed by Starcrafters which is "if your race is so bad then why not change it?" first of all people do not become progamers to make all the moneyz. They are truly attached to the game that they play, or race if you are talking about starcraft, people do not choose their race for shits and giggles they choose it because they like the way it plays. Second of all it would be pointless for them to switch as it will take a long long time for them to become competitive again and well, they probably do not want to switch anyway. I really really enjoy LoL and I have around 900 games played on it over the last year and a half to say that it requires as much skill as DotA is farcical. In DotA you make one mistake and a competent player can exploit that weakness and then make you his bitch for the rest of the game. I do however agree on the mechanics section and agree on how in the grand scheme of the universe it isn't very important for one game to be harder than another. In a way I think it is just Starcrafters trying to 1up another community. Yea I feel the same way. Many dota players and pros don't want to play LoL because its a boring and easy game compared to dota, but this thread isn't about that. The best advice I can give you is find some friends who know what they are doing. Teamliquid is your friend and we have a Lol subforum. Someone will be able to give you advice and make you pro. Solo queuing in any AoS is a terrible idea if you want to have a good time. Lol and SC2 are two very different games. Lol at the pub level is like 90% knowledge, 10% execution. at the competitive level its all teamwork and execution. If you don't know what is going on you won't do well, its pretty simple. Don't be too hard on yourself. + Show Spoiler + and play dota 2! | ||
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Thienan567
United States670 Posts
On April 05 2012 10:17 firehand101 wrote: define 'ridiculous' .................. i dont think it is outrageously hard, you will find your way eventually! Let's put it this way. If you were to put all the combined knowledge you'd have to know about LoL to perform at a competative level: I'm talking champions, optimal way to play champs, counterpicks, counter-counterpicks, last hitting, item builds, optimizing item builds, how/when to be aggressive/passive, champion and team cohesiveness and which compositions are effective, etc. etc. the amount of information would easily be comparable to say, a CS or biology class in college. And not, say, Intro to CS or Biology 101. | ||
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
Anyway, League IS easier than Starcraft in almost every possible aspect with the main exception being that you have 4 randoms on your team. Where in a regular RTS you alone can control (if you're micro is strong enough) the army movements, you have a huge unpredictability factor in DOTA games because you can't 100% control the actions of the 4 other people (even if you're an arranged 5). Everything else in terms of MECHANICS is easier in League by a hundred fold, but it doesn't make it an easier game. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:24 PartyBiscuit wrote: Isn't 1200 flat average? Anyway, League IS easier than Starcraft in almost every possible aspect with the main exception being that you have 4 randoms on your team. Where in a regular RTS you alone can control (if you're micro is strong enough) the army movements, you have a huge unpredictability factor in DOTA games because you can't 100% control the actions of the 4 other people (even if you're an arranged 5). Everything else in terms of MECHANICS is easier in League by a hundred fold, but it doesn't make it an easier game. the you have shit teamates argument is old and wrong suppose op played in 4v4 against silver opponents as a master player. i'd guarantee you that he could carry his team regardless of how bad they are. the simple fact is that op played 70 games and if he goes 35/35 it's something HE"S doing wrong, not his teamates. you have a lot more influence in lol than you think. op just hasn't played as many MOBA(i really hate that term) games as other players. you go through a learning process in LoL like you do in sc2. the game is muuuuuch simpler in terms of mechanics but there still is experience and general knowledge that one has to learn before being successful. so why are you only 1200 elo (equal to around silver/gold but the skill gap is much less in LoL) and masters at sc2? well you either studied sc2 and trained really hard, have great mechanical skills such as micro and macro to carry you through lower leagues, or you're just quite errrr unrefined in LoL. | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:24 PartyBiscuit wrote: Isn't 1200 flat average? Anyway, League IS easier than Starcraft in almost every possible aspect with the main exception being that you have 4 randoms on your team. Where in a regular RTS you alone can control (if you're micro is strong enough) the army movements, you have a huge unpredictability factor in DOTA games because you can't 100% control the actions of the 4 other people (even if you're an arranged 5). Everything else in terms of MECHANICS is easier in League by a hundred fold, but it doesn't make it an easier game. The mechanics are definitely easier, but it doesn't mean they translate anywhere close to one-to-one. Getting good at hitting larvae injects and macroing will not make you last-hit better. You may get good at looking at the minimap, but playing SC2 won't help you hit skillshots, etc. Regardless, mechanics aren't what make MOBAs challenging. It's the coordination that separates the top level teams. Pretty much just like football or basketball. | ||
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ETisME
12700 Posts
On April 05 2012 11:45 Thienan567 wrote: Let's put it this way. If you were to put all the combined knowledge you'd have to know about LoL to perform at a competative level: I'm talking champions, optimal way to play champs, counterpicks, counter-counterpicks, last hitting, item builds, optimizing item builds, how/when to be aggressive/passive, champion and team cohesiveness and which compositions are effective, etc. etc. the amount of information would easily be comparable to say, a CS or biology class in college. And not, say, Intro to CS or Biology 101. I don't think there is this much knowledge required. just like dota, you just need to know the hero and their role, get their items, do your role whenever you can, be aggressive/passive based upon that. other stuff are more relying upon teamwork, which makes some heroes in pub look imba and crappy in pro level. last hitting imo, is just part of mechanics, just like zerg's creep spread Being mechanically better will makes you a better player if your hero allows. For example, after sc2, my chen and meepo definitly has improved tonnes, especially meepo because it requires quite a lot of micro-ing | ||
SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
You have to play your champion according to the situation.. let me give you an example.. If you play Gangplank top lane and you get counter picked by a Pantheon, you need to change the way you play or you will feed him. You can change by instead of maxing parley first, get remove scurvy first for healing, on top of that you can use armor runes and start with cloth armor and 5 pots, now its not about winning your lane but rather sustaining your lane.. getting your cs and getting into late game. LoL is all about decision making, however to be able to make good decisions you need game knowledge. I find learning LoL 10x harder than sc2.. sc2 requires more mechanics, but mechanics isn't everything. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
And from there to be a good competitive player you need to learn to play your role perfectly, be it carrying, supporting, ganking, etc. And finally you need to practice your teamwork, which is what pro teams actually excel at. Dota type games are hard to learn, but don't despair, you just need to play and read more. In comparison, DotA takes a lot more skill than LoL though. It's a game that exposes your weaknesses a lot more, a game that is A LOT more punishing, and thus much more dissapointing for new players who aren't guided through the beginning. On April 05 2012 15:27 ETisME wrote: I don't think there is this much knowledge required. just like dota, you just need to know the hero and their role, get their items, do your role whenever you can, be aggressive/passive based upon that. other stuff are more relying upon teamwork, which makes some heroes in pub look imba and crappy in pro level. last hitting imo, is just part of mechanics, just like zerg's creep spread Being mechanically better will makes you a better player if your hero allows. For example, after sc2, my chen and meepo definitly has improved tonnes, especially meepo because it requires quite a lot of micro-ing You definitely need all that knowledge, if you intend to play at any level beyond average | ||
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kinglemon
Germany199 Posts
On April 05 2012 10:44 phantaxx wrote: One thing I think is overlooked a lot about the difficulty of being good at a game is that no matter how easy the game is, to be the best you have to be better than everyone else at the game. If you take an incredibly basic game but have people all around the world playing full time, it will still be hard as fuck to be a top level player because of the level of competition. it will still come down to boundaries of the game itself. look at tic tac toe for the most basic example. | ||
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MaGariShun
Austria305 Posts
Basically these are the things you have to learn to be on a decent level, sorted descending in order of importance and order in which you should master them: 1. Mechanics. This includes lasthitting, aiming skillshots, aoes, using hotkeys etc. You don't have to be super good at them, but this is the thing you should focus on first 2. Role. This is more abstract and harder to rank. You should know which roles champs plays in the game. A support plays differently than a carry. You should know where your focus lies: is it warding? farming? pushing? ganking? Know what your overall goal is during the game. Carries usually stay on lane or jungle for a long time, while supports are more active and leave the lane earlier to roam etc. 3. Champions. Learn your champs. Know how to effectively use your skills. Learn to gauge how much damage you can do / take. 4. Match ups. This comes naturally with playing the game a lot. You have to know when you can kill the opponent, how you can punish his mistakes, how HE can punish your mistakes. What is the range you want to hang out in? Can he escape if I jump him now? Those things... 5. Map awareness. After playing a lot you develop a feeling for when you are in danger and when you are safe. it's hard to describe,sometimes you just know you will be ganked soon  . Essentially, it comes down to: Where can I go safely without being in danger to be killed?6. Items. Know your items, rune and mastery builds. For most champs, runes and masteries are pretty much self explanatory. LoL is also quite simple in the item department (not a lot of on-use stuff like in dota). 7. Overall strategy. This is what tournament players mostly focus on. When to take buffs, do coordinated ganks, do split pushes, time dragon/baron. Bans, picks, counterpicks, metagame I'm no pro, but i have played my fair share of games (should be around the 2000s). If it helps you: I recently picked up DOTA2 and I probably am as scrubby at it as i was when I first started LoL. If you want to improve, you just have to play A LOT of games. Try out as much champs as possible, don't be afraid to try stuff and lose. The single worst thing you can do is to play and not learn anything from it. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
The environment was just too toxic and I felt like a waste of a human being after every game I played, largely because of how I couldn't seem to stop myself from raging at my teammates. In SC2, I can't really make any excuses. LoL is really a very easy game if you don't handicap yourself like I did, picking bad heroes all the time. There is a bunch of knowledge involved, yes, but it's not nearly as difficult to acquire as it's made out to be. People are just really actually that fucking bad. There *is* a lot of individual skill, but it is completely eclipsed by even SC2. Teamwork, as everyone else is saying, is probably the most important thing. The best thing you can ever do for your ladder rating is be manner to your teammates, even when the useless shits don't deserve it. Also, buy god damn wards and don't overextend. Congratulations, you're better than >80% of players. | ||
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