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Liquid,
Yesterday after a lightish day at work I decided that I would play some SC2. Normally I avoid SC2 after work, since I work at a law firm and it takes a lot of mental energy. By the time I get home, I am pretty fried and my decision making is flat out terrible. But yesterday was not one of those days and I decided to give the ladder a shot. After about four games, which I won a few. However, by the end of it all, I wondered if I should have just watched some replays instead.
Now many would say that I should not fear playing SC2. Fear is not the word I would use to discribe my aversion to playing during the week. It is more of an understanding that I will not be happy with my preformance. And this issue is linked to one thing: Attention Deficit Disorder.
Now before everyone says "That is just an excuse", let me clear a few things up.
Attention Deficit Disorder, or ADD. has to be one of the one of the most poorly named mental disorders out there. Its real name should be Diminished Sensory Imput Filtering Disorder. People who have ADD do not have a diminished ability to pay attention. In fact, they focus better than most people and can become fixed on a task for hours at a time. But this task has to have specific traits. Namely, it must provide adequate stimulus.
If anyone has read Driven to Distraction (which I recommend for anyone who has, or is in a relationship with someone with ADD) they will quickly learn that people with ADD crave stimulus. They want interesting things to be happening all the time. They dread being bored, to the point where they will develope compulsive habits to avoid it. I personally will never leave the house, or a room, without a book in hand. Why? Because there could be a ten minute period where I nothing to do.
So how does this relate to Starcraft 2? You would think a greater ability to focus would be a great trait for SC2. After all, what is more exciting that all the huge battles and endless things to do and worry about? Well that comes to the second part of ADD. People with ADD can focus on anything they put their mind to, just like everyone else. The problem for them is that unlike someone with out ADD, it is hard for them to block out everything going on around them. Right now, while typing this on my lunch break, I have my headphones in and I am making a reasonable effort to ignore the discussion going on behind me. I believe it about a hearing that took place today and my mind would like nothing more than to have me stop typing and listen in on the discussion. I am not invested in the hearing or case in any way, but it could have something interesting. And that is the problem for people with ADD, it takes more effort to block out stimulus and focus on something. Or, better put, they are naturally curious, almost to a fault.
I was lucky enough to end up in a field where ADD is more of a perk than and handicap. Law requires a a lot of attention to detail, which someone who naturally curious looks for. People with ADD also seek and crave structure. Their attention is, at times, beyond their control and chaos is very draining on them. Lawyers love paralegals who take the time to clean up a file or pick out and note the most important information. But all of this does not stop me from being forced to read boring documents or writing dry briefs on contract law.
So after 10 hours of working, I am not in top form when I get home. I love the game, but I never play anywhere near as well as I do on the weekends. There are parts of playing SC2 that force you to struggle against ADD. There is nothing worse that playing against someone and knowing you can are not playing as well as you could. Being beaten by something that you know you could have beaten if you were in top form. The difference is so pronounced that is can ruin my enjoyment of SC2.
Still, I would like to practice more. My weekends are not totally free for me to dive into SC2 for hours. I like to hang out with girlfriend (who also has ADD. We cannot talk about anything when the TV is on, even on mute). We also have a house, friends, family, a hedgehog and all the normal stuff for life. The only way I will get better is to get over this issue and be fearless on the ladder. But I also learned long ago that I do not do things I do not enjoy. I don't want to ruin SC2 through some misguided need to "improve".
All right, enjoy self important musings and back to work. Still, if you know someone with or who has a kid with ADD, have them read Driven to Distraction. Understanding how ADD works is key to finding a way around it. To many people think it is something you can overcome with brute force alone. There is nothing worse than watching the kid trying to build a model and getting so frustrated they are almost crying. They are not frustrated because the model is hard to build. They are frustrated because they want to enjoy building the model and every part of them says it should be fun. But for some reason it is not and they don't know why.
Plansix
  
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You shouldn't worry about ladder fear. It shows that you care about this game and it shows that you want to improve. Just keep playing
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Hey, cool post! I see a lot of the qualities that you're describing in myself (though I've never been formally diagnosed with ADD). What kind of law/law firm are you involved with? I'm in corporate/bank regulatory law at a Biglaw firm in NYC, so I completely understand when you talk about being mentally drained when trying to play sc2 after work, to say the least...
also, what level are you in sc2? we should practice sometime if you want to discuss over PM - it'll be great since we'll both be equally tired :p i was high master's for a time last year but i play very very casually and occasionally now - mostly just 1v1 ladder on a friend's diamond account for fun. if you're somewhere around there and want casual/low-stress practice without the pressure of ladder then feel free to let me know.
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I can relate so much to what you have said in this post and I thank you for that. The detail you go into is very poignant.
I picked up that same book when I was in my third year of Varisty. It is a very valuable book and explained a lot to me, leading to my meeting with a specialist who dealt with child ADD. Your description of the measures you take so as not to be bored relate to my experience as well. For example, in a game of Starcraft, when I used to have two screens, I would keep something open on the other screen, like a document, in case I got bored in the early game. I didn't like the fact that I was doing this though, felt like I was a bit of a freak for not being able to concentrate on a simple thing like a build order.
Anyway, I had more to say but it has kind of been lost 
Nice post
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I have ADHD and I find that spamming keys is a good way to solve that. On the other hand my legs are always shaking when I play. O_o
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People who have ADD do not have a diminished ability to pay attention. In fact, they focus better than most people and can become fixed on a task for hours at a time. But this task has to have specific traits. Namely, it must provide adequate stimulus....People with ADD can focus on anything they put their mind to, just like everyone else. The problem for them is that unlike someone with out ADD, it is hard for them to block out everything going on around them.
So what you're saying is...that people with ADD CAN'T focus on anything they put their mind to, just like anyone else?
If I take what you say at face value, I see "when someone with ADD isn't focused on you, it's because they don't give a fuck about whatever it is you're saying/doing."
Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I'm a teacher and ADD/ADHD/"auditory processing disorder"/"he's a visual learner" is bullshit we get fed every day. Either it's a disability that you can't really control on your own (or without accomodations/therapy/techniques/drugs) or you're just lazy/rude/lack discipline.
I guess I should just read the book you recommend.
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On March 23 2012 05:39 Cortza wrote:I can relate so much to what you have said in this post and I thank you for that. The detail you go into is very poignant. I picked up that same book when I was in my third year of Varisty. It is a very valuable book and explained a lot to me, leading to my meeting with a specialist who dealt with child ADD. Your description of the measures you take so as not to be bored relate to my experience as well. For example, in a game of Starcraft, when I used to have two screens, I would keep something open on the other screen, like a document, in case I got bored in the early game. I didn't like the fact that I was doing this though, felt like I was a bit of a freak for not being able to concentrate on a simple thing like a build order. Anyway, I had more to say but it has kind of been lost Nice post
Feeling like there is something wrong with you because you have to go the extra mile not to be bored is pretty common. My girlfriend has said several times that she worries about people thinking she is a "spaz". I used my "active" nature to be as funny as possible and it has worked out. But I still have my moments when I can't even make it through typing a simple email without switching the song I am listening to four times. But personally I treat my ADD as an opponent to be beaten or controlled. It limited me for a long time and once I became more aware of how deep it worked its way through my life, I became driven to beat it. That is why I have only one screen in my SC2 and listen to pretty rhythmic music when I play.
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On March 23 2012 09:22 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +People who have ADD do not have a diminished ability to pay attention. In fact, they focus better than most people and can become fixed on a task for hours at a time. But this task has to have specific traits. Namely, it must provide adequate stimulus....People with ADD can focus on anything they put their mind to, just like everyone else. The problem for them is that unlike someone with out ADD, it is hard for them to block out everything going on around them. So what you're saying is...that people with ADD CAN'T focus on anything they put their mind to, just like anyone else? If I take what you say at face value, I see "when someone with ADD isn't focused on you, it's because they don't give a fuck about whatever it is you're saying/doing." Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I'm a teacher and ADD/ADHD/"auditory processing disorder"/"he's a visual learner" is bullshit we get fed every day. Either it's a disability that you can't really control on your own (or without accomodations/therapy/techniques/drugs) or you're just lazy/rude/lack discipline. I guess I should just read the book you recommend.
First off I was going to become a teacher, but I had little patience for bureaucracy when it came to assisting kids. Second of all, I would like to say that is a huge bummer that there are a group of children that are forced to rely on you for their education. You have little, to no, ability to assess if a disability exists or not. Your focus in higher education and training had nothing to do with neurological studies or medical practice. You are woefully under qualified to assess if any child has any sort of disorder at all, which is why most states do not allow teachers to even comment on the matter and will terminate them if they do. You are like a small town car mechanic telling engineer how to build a luxury sports car.
Further more, if you dislike the way modern education is heading, I suggest you leave and not subject the rest of our youth your ignorance. People like yourself are a blight on the public education system, belittling children rather than helping them. If a child truly had a problem or disability, I hope their parents have the common sense to not listen to a word you say and seek professional advice.
Finally, if you were wondering, I had difficulty at all focusing during the length of writing this response. You commanded my full, undivided attention. As people like yourself always will.
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On March 23 2012 10:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:22 Bigtony wrote:People who have ADD do not have a diminished ability to pay attention. In fact, they focus better than most people and can become fixed on a task for hours at a time. But this task has to have specific traits. Namely, it must provide adequate stimulus....People with ADD can focus on anything they put their mind to, just like everyone else. The problem for them is that unlike someone with out ADD, it is hard for them to block out everything going on around them. So what you're saying is...that people with ADD CAN'T focus on anything they put their mind to, just like anyone else? If I take what you say at face value, I see "when someone with ADD isn't focused on you, it's because they don't give a fuck about whatever it is you're saying/doing." Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I'm a teacher and ADD/ADHD/"auditory processing disorder"/"he's a visual learner" is bullshit we get fed every day. Either it's a disability that you can't really control on your own (or without accomodations/therapy/techniques/drugs) or you're just lazy/rude/lack discipline. I guess I should just read the book you recommend. First off I was going to become a teacher, but I had little patience for bureaucracy when it came to assisting kids. Second of all, I would like to say that is a huge bummer that there are a group of children that are forced to rely on you for their education. You have little, to no, ability to assess if a disability exists or not. Your focus in higher education and training had nothing to do with neurological studies or medical practice. You are woefully under qualified to assess if any child has any sort of disorder at all, which is why most states do not allow teachers to even comment on the matter and will terminate them if they do. You are like a small town car mechanic telling engineer how to build a luxury sports car. Further more, if you dislike the way modern education is heading, I suggest you leave and not subject the rest of our youth your ignorance. People like yourself are a blight on the public education system, belittling children rather than helping them. If a child truly had a problem or disability, I hope their parents have the common sense to not listen to a word you say and seek professional advice. Finally, if you were wondering, I had difficulty at all focusing during the length of writing this response. You commanded my full, undivided attention. As people like yourself always will.
I ask you a legitimate question about seemingly contradictory statements in your original post and somehow that translates into me trying to armchair diagnose learning disabilities?
First - In no way did I deny the existence of a real disability/disorder. ADD/Auditory processing most certainly exist and require accomdations in education so that children (who haven't learned how to manage on their own yet) can achieve their maximum potential.
I have no ability to asses if a disability exists and have no training in identifying disability AND I would be terminated for commenting on the matter?
Teachers are most definitely trained to identify warning signs of disabilities. No, we do not diagnose anyone or make any recommendations about specific disorders, but if we notice things that are out of the ordinary, we call parents, refer them to guidance department/child study team/school professional/etc. It's our job and responsibility to do so.
No I would never go into the guidance office and say "hey, according to my observations Johnny Smith has ADD." or "Johnny Smith is just a bullshitter." But I would say, "Johnny has quite a bit of trouble reading/spelling" or "Johnny responds better when we do video activities," etc. Also, teachers are included in the IEP/504 process - we're the only ones in the whole process trained to deal with and accomodate the learners actually making sure that they get a fair chance to learn.
So basically what I'm getting at is you have no idea what you're talking about. I commanded your full undivided attention into telling me what I do and do not know and then continued to talk about things which you clearly have no knowledge whatsoever at all about. A+ good post, thanks for not answering my question about the apparent self contradiction in your original post.
tl;dr - you make long post, I ask question and say I should read the book you recommend to understand more, you attack me without basis and tell me I don't know anything, I tell you that you have no idea what you're saying and to go fuck yourself.
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On March 23 2012 10:47 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:03 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2012 09:22 Bigtony wrote:People who have ADD do not have a diminished ability to pay attention. In fact, they focus better than most people and can become fixed on a task for hours at a time. But this task has to have specific traits. Namely, it must provide adequate stimulus....People with ADD can focus on anything they put their mind to, just like everyone else. The problem for them is that unlike someone with out ADD, it is hard for them to block out everything going on around them. So what you're saying is...that people with ADD CAN'T focus on anything they put their mind to, just like anyone else? If I take what you say at face value, I see "when someone with ADD isn't focused on you, it's because they don't give a fuck about whatever it is you're saying/doing." Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I'm a teacher and ADD/ADHD/"auditory processing disorder"/"he's a visual learner" is bullshit we get fed every day. Either it's a disability that you can't really control on your own (or without accomodations/therapy/techniques/drugs) or you're just lazy/rude/lack discipline. I guess I should just read the book you recommend. First off I was going to become a teacher, but I had little patience for bureaucracy when it came to assisting kids. Second of all, I would like to say that is a huge bummer that there are a group of children that are forced to rely on you for their education. You have little, to no, ability to assess if a disability exists or not. Your focus in higher education and training had nothing to do with neurological studies or medical practice. You are woefully under qualified to assess if any child has any sort of disorder at all, which is why most states do not allow teachers to even comment on the matter and will terminate them if they do. You are like a small town car mechanic telling engineer how to build a luxury sports car. Further more, if you dislike the way modern education is heading, I suggest you leave and not subject the rest of our youth your ignorance. People like yourself are a blight on the public education system, belittling children rather than helping them. If a child truly had a problem or disability, I hope their parents have the common sense to not listen to a word you say and seek professional advice. Finally, if you were wondering, I had difficulty at all focusing during the length of writing this response. You commanded my full, undivided attention. As people like yourself always will. I ask you a legitimate question about seemingly contradictory statements in your original post and somehow that translates into me trying to armchair diagnose learning disabilities? First - In no way did I deny the existence of a real disability/disorder. ADD/Auditory processing most certainly exist and require accomdations in education so that children (who haven't learned how to manage on their own yet) can achieve their maximum potential. I have no ability to asses if a disability exists and have no training in identifying disability AND I would be terminated for commenting on the matter? Teachers are most definitely trained to identify warning signs of disabilities. No, we do not diagnose anyone or make any recommendations about specific, but if we notice things that are out of the ordinary, we call parents, refer them to guidance department/child study team/school professional/etc. No I would never go into the guidance office and say "hey, according to my observations Johnny Smith has ADD." or "Johnny Smith is just a bullshitter." But I would say, "Johnny has quite a bit of trouble reading/spelling" or "Johnny responds better when we do video activities," etc. Also, teachers are included in the IEP/504 process - probably because we're the only ones in the whole process actually trained to deal with and accomodate the learners, rather than just diagnosing them. So basically what I'm getting at is you have no idea what you're talking about. I commanded your full undivided attention into telling me what I do and do not know and then continued to talk about things which you clearly have no knowledge whatsoever at all about. A+ good post, thanks for not answering my question about the apparent self contradiction in your original post. tl;dr - you make long post, I ask question, you attack me without basis, I tell you to go fuck yourself.
I am really surprised that you expected a different response. The tone of your post is over all challenging and slighting belittling. Although your initial question may have been an honest attempt for you to get some sort of insight into ADD and how it functions, you follow it up terribly. Look at the language you used to follow up your question:
Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I'm a teacher and ADD/ADHD/"auditory processing disorder"/"he's a visual learner" is bullshit we get fed every day. Either it's a disability that you can't really control on your own (or without accomodations/therapy/techniques/drugs) or you're just lazy/rude/lack discipline.
You posted this is response to someone who admits to struggling with a disability and has managed to become a full working professional. Just out of curiosity, what sort of response did you expect to this? You basically call ADD bullshit. I know this because you use the two words in the same sentence. You say, "...is bullshit we get fed every day." You then state that either someone has a learning disability that they cannot control or they are lazy/rude/lack discipline. And I am not sure how rude factors into all of this, for that matter.
To be clear, I have been fully diagnosed through neurological testing. My brain is broken and does not function like yours. There are things in this world that I will never be able to do as well as someone without ADD. I will never fully enjoy going fishing, stargazing or any other placid activity that lacks lots of stimulus. Such environments make me edgy and exhibit behavior that greatly resembles OCD. Does that sound like something that would be a fun thing to grow up with? When your father takes you fishing and you begin to exhibit what appears to be mild neuroses instead of enjoying yourself. Does that sound like something that someone should be mistaking for lazy?
I say this because you are not the first person I have had this argument with. You are lumped in with people who do not want to understand or simply do not care. Like a person who says that depressed people should just cheer up. I don't believe you are that crass, but your post can be read that way.
But to your question, which was the reason for your post. People with ADD can focus on anything, but the question is for how long. It requires more effort for them to do so, since they have a diminished ability to filter out what is going on around them. There are times when they can focus on something for hours, but it is not consistent. The same task may not hold their attention the next time around, but they will not understand why this is. Why they were able to do one thing for hours before, but now it frustrates them the longer they do it.
I strongly suggest you read the book referenced above. It is by two doctors who have ADD and managed to get through medical school with it. It will give you a better understanding between of the difference between someone with ADD and a poorly behaved kid who does not care what you say.
Edit: grammar as suggested below
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I have ADD and I'm playing SC2 at a considered somewhat high level (50th GrandMaster). I have sent you a PM on what I think of what you wrote, I hopes it helps in some way.
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If you think that actual ADD (a more serious kind) and most severities of ADHD medication isn't #1. But reading a book is, you're dead wrong.
Shit my ADHD is so bad I can barely read, but I take Desoxyn or a high dose of my Methylphendate and i'm golden. Calm and collected, add some kpins and you can throw cool in there as well.
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On April 16 2012 16:39 DeceiverSC2 wrote:
If you think that actual ADD (a more serious kind) and most severities of ADHD medication isn't #1. But reading a book is, you're dead wrong.
Shit my ADHD is so bad I can barely read, but I take Desoxyn or a high dose of my Methylphendate and i'm golden. Calm and collected, add some kpins and you can throw cool in there as well.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying nor who you are talking to. Are you playing SC2 or any game with your condition ? If yes can you tell us what it is like in comparaison to everyone else, when medicated and not, maybe. Thx
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What Deceiver said is completely true--
if you have ACTUAL ADD medication is the best bet for treating it
Not saying that this book wouldn't help anyone but any insight it could give to the ADD suffer would be meaningless if it didn't also strongly advise the use of drugs for treating it
If this book is any good it should stress the importance of that fact in the treatment of ADD
Dohko if you're suggesting that you're Grandmaster and have ADD and don't take medication then you should get over the fact that you don't have ADD and should stop spreading the harmful implication that ADD can be bested without the use of medication.
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I like to play starcraft with the sound off and npr or some or an audiobook in the background, it gives me sick minimap awarness as well.
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On April 16 2012 21:53 IamaGrapeMan wrote:
^
What Deceiver said is completely true--
if you have ACTUAL ADD medication is the best bet for treating it
Not saying that this book wouldn't help anyone but any insight it could give to the ADD suffer would be meaningless if it didn't also strongly advise the use of drugs for treating it
If this book is any good it should stress the importance of that fact in the treatment of ADD
Dohko if you're suggesting that you're Grandmaster and have ADD and don't take medication then you should get over the fact that you don't have ADD and should stop spreading the harmful implication that ADD can be bested without the use of medication.
I think you should realy use a good reading of the Book before talking about it. The book does stress the importance of medication, a lot! In fact it is written by a pioneer in the area, a psychiatrist who has ADD himself, a professionnal which I don't think you are, which I don't think I am. If you are are amoug us dispensing valuable knowledge about ADD you should realy get fully educated yourself before even stressing the importance of medication. Sure it is important, but medication alone often doesnt suffice the treatment of ADD. The opposite is perfectly possible too, there are some people who have ADD that have learn ways to either treat themselves to some extent or developping coping mechanism so that they can even gratuate from Medical School and such, like the writer of the Book so I doubt being in GrandMaster as I am have any relevance in the matter of me being diagnosed with ADD. Then again I would recommend anyone to read to book to have a better understanding of what I'm saying and not saying. ADD is a complex condition that should not be overlooked and oversimplified to the point of saying that medication alone is the answer to it, there is no perfect answer to it. I believe in medication, I strongly do, you should not disbelieve alternative ways of treatment as it helps a lot of ADD-people when medication doesnt solve anything.
I'm on the verge of getting very angry with you when you are spreading the harmful implication that ADD can only be bested with the use of medication. You have no idea how much non-medicated treatment are of importance and can do wonders, half-truths are just the worse kinds. Don't take those people hopes away thanks.
And to answer your question no I've never been medicated but I intend to.
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On April 17 2012 02:48 Dohko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 21:53 IamaGrapeMan wrote:
^
What Deceiver said is completely true--
if you have ACTUAL ADD medication is the best bet for treating it
Not saying that this book wouldn't help anyone but any insight it could give to the ADD suffer would be meaningless if it didn't also strongly advise the use of drugs for treating it
If this book is any good it should stress the importance of that fact in the treatment of ADD
Dohko if you're suggesting that you're Grandmaster and have ADD and don't take medication then you should get over the fact that you don't have ADD and should stop spreading the harmful implication that ADD can be bested without the use of medication.
I think you should realy use a good reading of the Book before talking about it. The book does stress the importance of medication, a lot!
i never said it didn't, i said IF it's any good it would talk about that in response to your silliness
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On April 17 2012 08:04 IamaGrapeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:48 Dohko wrote:On April 16 2012 21:53 IamaGrapeMan wrote:
^
What Deceiver said is completely true--
if you have ACTUAL ADD medication is the best bet for treating it
Not saying that this book wouldn't help anyone but any insight it could give to the ADD suffer would be meaningless if it didn't also strongly advise the use of drugs for treating it
If this book is any good it should stress the importance of that fact in the treatment of ADD
Dohko if you're suggesting that you're Grandmaster and have ADD and don't take medication then you should get over the fact that you don't have ADD and should stop spreading the harmful implication that ADD can be bested without the use of medication.
I think you should realy use a good reading of the Book before talking about it. The book does stress the importance of medication, a lot! i never said it didn't, i said IF it's any good it would talk about that in response to your silliness
I was never silly in any way, everything I said was very serious and honest. The part were I say you are not a profesionnal should have been clear enough for you not to make stupid assessment about others furthermore but here you are doing it again. You shouldnt speak about GrandMaster league, you don't know what's it's like, I do. I can already tell you that I'll never be able to be a professionnal gamer as my win ratio is just too low and I'm running short on ideas to enjoy what I'm doing. It seems like my ADD wasnt impairing enough on me so that I could'n't get that ranking playing as much as I do.
But you sir just wished it wasnt the case, do you wish for One Leg Disabled to have no legs at all so that you're feeling okay with your running performances ? Have you even been diagnosed with ADD at all ? You seem to not know the first thing about ADD. I know I have ADD and I don't need you to confirm it. That in response to your insecurities. There may be more people out there better than yourself than just me, watch out they may be handicapped or disabled. You are pathetic and I can't imagine you having ADD, knowing about the condition and having such a simple way about life as you do. Now here I am being silly.
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EPT
