• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:23
CEST 23:23
KST 06:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202529RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Corsair Pursuit Micro? Pro gamer house photos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 684 users

The Laughing O-Zealot

Blogs > VoO
Post a Reply
VoO
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany278 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-25 13:36:50
March 19 2012 23:37 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Sheealot imba


I'm a high ranked Terran master on Europe within Grandmaster MMR and generally playing a very macro-heavy style.

I started to play StarCraft 2 in the beta and quit after 2 weeks since it was horrible - everyone who have played the beta knows what I'm talking about. One year later I decided to pick up SC2 since I hoped that the design became a bit more balanced.

My race of choice in the beginning was Protoss since I played the predator race in Broodwar and I'm a fan of Bisu.

[image loading]
The sexy god of StarCraft


Protoss was horrible. PvP was cheesy, PvT was incredible hard to master against early bio all-ins and PvZ was an all-in hell as well. So I decided to switch since I didn't like the static system of Protoss and the race was especially underpowered on short distance maps. Furthermore, I played a very timing-based style which involved a lot of pushes and pokes, rarely resulting in a deathball scenario.

It took me months of very hard daily training to reach the niveau with Terran and the development of a rigorous improvement system. Currently, I'm a bit tired of perfecting my play and therefore will do an experiment for fun and induced by the current situation in TvP.
To be honest, I want to go pro and I don't think my current ability to play with Terran is enough to reach this level. I will use the same account since I don't want to buy an extra one. Unfortunately, this will require a bit of losing since I'm currently ranked first in my master division. However, I hope to learn the following from this experiment:

How good will my skill translate to Protoss as a high master Terran?
What new ideas and perspectives will I gain?


I'd like to document my effort to have a systematic approach and maximize the learning effect. So please bear with me starting from zero:

[image loading]
The beginning: bronze scrub 4 eva



However, I always make sure that I have a basic gameplan which I won't derivate from:

PvP: MC's defensive 3 gate in PvP
PvT: MC's 1 gate FE
PvZ: 15 Nexus


I will post interesting replays and insights as I progress through the leagues. May Aiur be with you my brethren.




Session 1 (#2 Silver): Lol, I don't know what I'm doing.

[image loading]


Statistics:
Win/Loss: 9/1, the guy claimed that he was a diamond player. He rofl-stomped me with mass burrowed roaches...
Avg. EAPM: 74, so bad... (160 with Terran)
Avg. Game Length: 10 minutes
PvT: 4:0 (Purotoss so imba)
PvP: 3:0 (Everyone tried to cheese me)
PvZ: 2:1 (Zerg imba)

Conclusion
-Players are friendlier in lower leagues. It's kind of refreshing to play against people who doesn't have any pressure.
-Early game is okay but I don't know what to build in mid/late in PvZ. Current strat is "FFE into some kind of random deathball".




Session 2 (#1 Platin): How did I get here?

[image loading]


Statistics:
Win/Loss: 36/7, I need to learn something about PvZ and PvP
Avg. EAPM: 104, better than before
Avg. Game Length: 11 minutes
PvT: 9:0 (cake everywhere)
PvP: 12:4 (lots of cheese)
PvZ: 15:3 (chedar, gouda, everything in here)

Conclusion
-Building warp prism every game
-Harassing with Zaelots every game
-See me chilling in my base, deathballing up


Session 3 (#6 Diamond): This isn't right

[image loading]


Statistics:
Win/Loss: 8/3
Avg. EAPM: 113
Avg. Game Length: 11 minutes
PvT: 1:1 (Loss game from a supply block during a 1-1-1 my fault)
PvP: 3:1 (Cheesy stuff)
PvZ: 4:1 (+1 Zealot and +2 Blink and Immortals = too strong)

Conclusion:
-I tend to think that Protoss is extremely easy to play at these low levels...
-It doesn't feel good anymore to win with.



My general opinion:
I won't describe Protoss as easy to play anymore, but the effort required for my enemies to keep up is higher. Protoss is extremely easy to play and you don't need the same amount of learning as you have with Zerg or Terran. I get lazier, there's no inherent need to improve as extreme as it is with Terran. Though I can't adequatly describe the situation yet since I need stronger enemies to reach a 50/50 win-/lossrate. I tried to find a decent streamer but, to be honest, every Protoss currently streaming is unbelievably bad compared to the Terran or Zerg players.

I feel that the skills from Terran to Protoss transfers too good. It shouldn't be possible in an ideal StarCraft to switch that easily between races. To put it in harsh words, I feel like Protoss is a lite version of Terran which basically requires the same kind of skills only in a more simplistic form. I think Blizzard didn't invest time into the design of Protoss and therefore some things tend to be broken - in a positive and negative kind of way, e.g. Mothership Vortex (good) vs no early harrasment potential (bad).


My opinion on units (fun-based):
[image loading]


Most important unit ever, you can create terrain? CREATE TERRAIN? Chokes anyone? How imbalanced is that... blocking most Zerg units, trapping Terrans? Imba.




[image loading]


Fucking samurai with lasers. LAZERSWORDS. I really like them. Furthermore, they are immortal.




[image loading]


Super fast pylon? The only thing I'd add to the prism is the ability to regenerate shields in it's vicinity faster... kind of shield battery.




[image loading]


Meh, don't like them. Bad copies of dragoons.




[image loading]


I don't like their a-click in your face style... Protoss needs more subtlety.

*
♥ 김택용 ♥Casual Dwarf Fortress Progamer
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
March 19 2012 23:43 GMT
#2
Why would you have a basic gameplan that you won't deviate from? If you are going to 15 nexus and you immediately scout an early pool, wouldn't you deviate?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
March 19 2012 23:45 GMT
#3
On March 20 2012 08:43 micronesia wrote:
Why would you have a basic gameplan that you won't deviate from? If you are going to 15 nexus and you immediately scout an early pool, wouldn't you deviate?

He actually said derivate. He won't derive from a gameplan

I actually think he meant like, he won't go cheesing or do random things; he'll try to focus on a singular gameplan in a more broad sense.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 23:54:06
March 19 2012 23:53 GMT
#4
[image loading]
The real god of StarCraft

[image loading]
WriterXiao8~~
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
March 19 2012 23:57 GMT
#5
Good luck, give me a shout-out once you win a big event.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
cmen15
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1519 Posts
March 20 2012 00:04 GMT
#6
Thattt is a sick zealot pic lol !!!
Greed leads to just about all losses.
MaV_gGSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 00:08:18
March 20 2012 00:08 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 20 2012 08:53 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
The real god of StarCraft

[image loading]



Well. Played. Sir.
Life's good :D
eourcs
Profile Joined February 2011
United States459 Posts
March 20 2012 00:10 GMT
#8
You won't drop down much provided you have reasonably decent mechanics. I did the same thing as you in the beginning of the season and stabilized at around top 500-600 masters on NA with Protoss compared to top 100 masters with Terran; which is decent considering all I did was research 3 builds from the strategy forum and improvise the rest.

PvT was really easy to be honest, I pretty much knew exactly what my opponent was doing the whole time, and I found it really easy to just drag out a game until I have a deathball. I had some difficulties with knowing how to react properly to builds I knew were coming, and overall, I found Protoss units early-mid game rather unwieldy, not necessarily bad, but certainly different than Terran units.

PvZ was pretty simple too. I just did the 4 gate +1 zealot of FFE every game, and followed with either a third or a 7gate blink allin. I learned that forcefields and dt/zealot drops are pretty cool ^_^

PvP was probably the hardest matchup to get used to. I lost a bunch of games because my warpgate was 2 seconds late, or my sentry came out a second late. However, given our warpgate timings were even, I usually won with better micro. I didn't really know how to play after an expansion, so I would usually lose because I don't know the proper times to cut units/cut probes/get forges/get additional gates.
Masters Terran | Strelok after losing to Kas' BCs "FUUUUUCK" *Stream Offline* | "Fuck hellions. Fuck them in the ass" IdrA
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
March 20 2012 00:49 GMT
#9
Since you're a GM terran you should be around mid-masters at least with protoss as long as you know the builds and correct responses (which you kinda should considering you've played alot of TvP)
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 03:48:01
March 20 2012 01:50 GMT
#10
Hey, why don't MY zealots have large cannons strapped to both arms?

I have never believed that switching races is super hard. I think out of every 5 games I play, at least one is off race. Arguably, I had the most trouble with Zerg, because queen management was a whole new thing I had to take care of. At least I'm pretty friggin' good at zergling monobattles now.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
March 20 2012 02:45 GMT
#11
Half transformer zealot.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
March 20 2012 04:17 GMT
#12
On March 20 2012 08:43 micronesia wrote:
Why would you have a basic gameplan that you won't deviate from? If you are going to 15 nexus and you immediately scout an early pool, wouldn't you deviate?

When someone says this, it means they won't deviate assuming standard play. Obviously, their play will change if cheese is scouted. If something like this has to be qualified every time, then most statements will be unnecessarily long.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
March 20 2012 09:36 GMT
#13
On March 20 2012 13:17 Azzur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 08:43 micronesia wrote:
Why would you have a basic gameplan that you won't deviate from? If you are going to 15 nexus and you immediately scout an early pool, wouldn't you deviate?

When someone says this, it means they won't deviate assuming standard play. Obviously, their play will change if cheese is scouted. If something like this has to be qualified every time, then most statements will be unnecessarily long.

I haven't heard this before, 'plan I won't deviate from' meaning 'I'll stick to this as long as the opponent doesn't do something very forcing'.

Not saying I disagree with the OPs decision to do this, though.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 257
Livibee 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 65
scan(afreeca) 41
NaDa 22
League of Legends
Grubby4479
Dendi1051
syndereN244
Counter-Strike
fl0m2058
Fnx 1333
byalli503
flusha437
Foxcn354
Super Smash Bros
PPMD64
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu669
Other Games
summit1g9418
FrodaN2139
tarik_tv2022
C9.Mang0234
ForJumy 71
ViBE60
Sick33
rubinoeu13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2783
League of Legends
• Doublelift3237
• TFBlade1045
Other Games
• imaqtpie1253
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
12h 37m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 12h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.