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On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
Ohhh my god, I loved reading that xD So accurate!
Not everyone's cut out to be a progamer. Why does it even matter?  I SUCK ASS at this game, in terms of talent, I've worked considerably harder than a lot of people I know at the top of the charts and I'm still having trouble breaking into master league. The most important thing is that I'm still having fun with it! I have no aspiration to get payed to play the game, and I certainly didn't buy it with an ambition to get it to pay for itself!
F is for friends who do stuff together,
U is for you and me.
N is for NO SURVIVORS BECAUSE THE SWARM IS COMING FOR YOUR TERRAN ASS.
Just enjoy it :D
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On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
Buu but...LEBRON!
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You put in the time, you will become pro. I don't think talent plays as much of a factor in starcraft, or video games for that matter, as many people think. Its all about putting in all your time and effort. Once you do that, you can break into the upper echelons of anything, even starcraft.
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On March 08 2012 14:03 Rygasm wrote:
You put in the time, you will become pro. I don't think talent plays as much of a factor in starcraft, or video games for that matter, as many people think. Its all about putting in all your time and effort. Once you do that, you can break into the upper echelons of anything, even starcraft.
No, there's a reason why Stephano dominates most foreigners, and even many Koreans, despite his lack of extensive practice compared to theirs. And most low-tier foreign players practice as much if not more than their higher-achieving counterparts.
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United States10774 Posts
hey guys, if you nerdrage like a child and are below diamond level, don't go pro!
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On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
I'm actually not going to fly to the moon. And neither should you. ^^
OP, although the number of people who could actually become pro-gamers is incredibly small, you focused on all the wrong things. Motivation and dedication and being able to grind out games for 8 hours a day even if you don't want to are all important traits, not "Being too BM". Come on now.
Also, people don't like being told what they can and cannot do
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"Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA
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On March 08 2012 15:02 DanLee wrote:
"Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA
The problem is that we are talking about the very top.
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On March 08 2012 15:09 Severian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 15:02 DanLee wrote:
"Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA The problem is that we are talking about the very top.
No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro. As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best. The koreans put in way more time than anyone else and they are better than the rest of the world on average, do you think they are born with natural starcraft ability?
edit: I should elaborate that I do think talent plays a part but it is a very small part, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
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On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro.
I don't think this is an outrageous statement. People can certainly give it a shot if they think their chances are good, and you won't know for sure if you don't try.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best.
When applied generally this is a fallacy, though, as what happens if everyone starts playing a lot and consciously tries to improve? Is everyone then "among the best"? No, some people will still be better than others (some people a lot better than others), and a factor in that gradation will be talent. On a smaller scale this is still true - as you said, Koreans practise a lot. There are lots of Koreans who practise a lot. Some of them are clearly much better than others, however, and certainly not all of them are members of a team.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
I agree with this, but there are very few professional Starcraft 2 players who do not work hard (and the ones who don't aren't that good). At the levels we're talking about, I don't think it's possible to compete with zero talent, and some people unfortunately do have (close to) zero talent in Starcraft 2. Everyone's good and bad at different things. If someone has been in Bronze since release yet has played for hours every day, there's a pretty good chance that they lack the talent to be one of the best in the world.
IdrA's statement is true, but you have to look at the whole of it. Being a professional in most things doesn't require a lot of talent, because the bar for entry is not obscenely high. I can be a lawyer without being an absurdly good one. If I want to be a professional Starcraft 2 player, however, I literally have to be one of the very few best in the world (unless you're valued for other aspects such as PR), which by definition is at the "very top" of which IdrA speaks.
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On March 08 2012 11:11 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft. But hotbid, thats been your dream for the last 20 years! These aren't very good reasons to go pro. The best reason is that its almost impossible to have a steady income and support yourself on just sc2. Look at the earnings of the top players. 1. Mvp: 183.841€ 2. MC: 171.121€ 3. NesTea: 163.053€ 4. MMA: 102.635€ 5. Polt : 89.033€ 6. DongRaeGu : 87.432€ 7. PuMa : 86.108€ 8. MarineKing :85.490€ 9. Stephano: 73.360€ 10. FruitDealer : 70.965€ 11. Leenock :61.797€ 12. Naniwa: 49.016€ 13. HuK: 44.703€ 14. Genius :43.193€ 15. HerO :42.566€ 16. Sen : 38.355€ 17. IdrA: 37.933€ 18. Jjakji :36.021€ 19. White-Ra: 35.571€ 20. SjoW: 34.600€ Mvp, MC and NesTea all have absurd amouts of money, but after that it drops off considerably, and keeps on dropping, until you get to Sjow, who hasn't done anything forever. After that, its not self-sustaining income. Salary helps a lot, but chances are you won't get a salary, or any of this, if you try to go pro.
Isn't that just winnings, have the numbers on their paychecks been released? Didn't Huk say he earned more a year from his sponsor deal than Grubby did back in the day? Or maybe that was just rumours xD
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On March 08 2012 11:09 GlintFox wrote:I believe going pro is just something you need to put a lot of practice and have passion in. Personally, I also think its silly to try and "bring people to reality" for the mindset of keep trying and being pro one day dramatically helps e-sports and helps starcraft as a whole. Tons of people play every day aspiring to get better to maybe one day go to tournaments and do well, I for one do this. Some people take that one more step, they want to not only do well in a small tournament, but do well in a huge one and be noticed and picked up by a team. Its a good thing. Now, being realistic in the sense this could fail and this shouldn't be an "all-in" (haha yep I went there!) and study "just in case" is an incredibly smart idea and should be followed by everyone. Think of it as a "safe build". QXC and Day9 both studied and kept starcraft a passion. If it does fail or if they diddnt make it then they have a career to fall back on. I, myself, am doing that. I am persuing my career but still trying to keep that little dream alive and practice starcraft every day to one day make it from the silver league to GM and off to a tournament to play with some of the people I admire the most such as White-Ra and ViOLet. If I somehow in the crazy world made it, that would be awesome. If not, then oh well its still a passion. I suppose in short, starcraft depends on the mindset sometimes and its not stupid to dream. 
you couldn't have said it any better. i'm in gold tho for now
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The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender.
Only those who risk going to far can possibly discover how far they can go.
It is not how much you do, but how much love you put in the doing.
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On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
Yeah, but that's just because you're afraid you'd have to play for the Bobcats if they win the lottery.
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So since your not good no one should try to? All these reasons start with I not you, not everyone just you. Your reasons are since you can't do something no one can. and really your not korean? What does that have to do koreans aren't born better a sc2 they practice differently/better.
2/5 you wrote out a bunch of nonrelevant things well but well they were about you not, joesmoe
Keep writing
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On March 08 2012 15:40 Severian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro. I don't think this is an outrageous statement. People can certainly give it a shot if they think their chances are good, and you won't know for sure if you don't try. Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best. When applied generally this is a fallacy, though, as what happens if everyone starts playing a lot and consciously tries to improve? Is everyone then "among the best"? No, some people will still be better than others (some people a lot better than others), and a factor in that gradation will be talent. On a smaller scale this is still true - as you said, Koreans practise a lot. There are lots of Koreans who practise a lot. Some of them are clearly much better than others, however, and certainly not all of them are members of a team. Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote:
hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. I agree with this, but there are very few professional Starcraft 2 players who do not work hard (and the ones who don't aren't that good). At the levels we're talking about, I don't think it's possible to compete with zero talent, and some people unfortunately do have (close to) zero talent in Starcraft 2. Everyone's good and bad at different things. If someone has been in Bronze since release yet has played for hours every day, there's a pretty good chance that they lack the talent to be one of the best in the world. IdrA's statement is true, but you have to look at the whole of it. Being a professional in most things doesn't require a lot of talent, because the bar for entry is not obscenely high. I can be a lawyer without being an absurdly good one. If I want to be a professional Starcraft 2 player, however, I literally have to be one of the very few best in the world (unless you're valued for other aspects such as PR), which by definition is at the "very top" of which IdrA speaks.
I'm so glad someone understood what I was saying, I still think I'm right about people who play a lot will eventually be among the best. I just think this holds true because the practice continuously builds upon itself and that is why I said eventually you will be among the best. Other than that I agree with what you said about talent separating people once it reaches that level. Then there is also quality of practice, the person who looks through replays that confused them and always tries to fix the biggest holes in their game first are gonna improve so much faster than someone who simply mass games on the ladder. To clarify though, even if you just mass game on the ladder you will improve in some way unless you've hit the maximum of your potential in this game.
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EPT
