DISCLAIMER: I'm not provoking anybody with legitimate skill, almost hitting GM league to give up their hopes and dreams, especially if it seems like they're getting somewhere (namely top 200 in Europe/America/Korea/Southeast Asia/China) his is directed at all you nubs aspiring to go pro one day. Basically, it's based around the message these two songs imply, that all these newbies are trying their hand at becoming the next big SC2 pro.
#1 - I Rage and BM. A lot. Allow me to share a truth with you. I actually got a three day suspension for offensive language in chat which just sprang out of me when I lost a game. Hell, some of the shit I've said on SC2 has been quite tame compared to the racist/homophobic crap you'd hear on say.... Xbox Live.
If I can't take a ladder loss lightly, imagine the shit I would spew out if I were to say.... lose potential winnings from losing a game.
I am shocked that people like Sheth and WhiteRa can be so fucking mannered especially when money is on the line. Look at WhiteRa in the Dreamhack Stockholm Invitational last year. Cheesed out of a 2-2 tie in the space of about three minutes by a cheesy oGsMC, proxy 2-gating his way to first place.
If I were in WhiteRa's shoes, I wouldn't have gg'd, I probably would have ended the game with "fuck you faggot" and stormed out in rage. Or would have done worse.
Hell, even bad mannered IdrA isn't THAT BM. Yes, he does ragequit and he does trashtalk but he's not taken it too far, like to the point where most leagues would actually ban the fuck out of you.
Plus the bad thing about being bad mannered? If you say the wrong thing, you end up witch hunted by SCReddit. Remember what happened to MaximusBlack once? Or what's happening to Orb at the moment on Reddit?
Yes, BM "pros" (if you can call them that) like CombatEX exist but is he really a pro? Banned from TL for understandable reasons, no team would realistically touch him with a metal pole, especially with his current attitude. I mean even CSL (the only league he's played in) banned him permanently for "excessive bad manner"
#2 - I am lowly ranked. Why do players get on teams? Because they got potential. Hell, female pros have been criticised for getting on teams using just their good looks and charm. Yet, I think realistically, SlayerSEve, StartaleAphrodite, StartaleMisS, KellyMILKIES or QuanticFlo could probably kick your ass in SC2 if you're not top 2% of your region.
There's a reason they're not gonna sign JamesonStarcraft who's mid Silver League or HeartStarcraft, the pseudonym for a stunning babe that is Rank 62 Diamond and slipping in terms of MMR, struggling to stay within her league.
Guess what? Teams are after decent players.
#3 - I have nothing entertaining to bring to the community.
More a case for the Destiny/iNcontroL/Chad Motherfucking Jones/Dragon fans. I won't lie, they are decent but they are hardly top tier.
Rather, they get by on entertainment value. Sorry, but you cannot exactly convince people to watch you especially if you offer no niche and any possible niches are already filled.
#4 - My APM is fucking tiny.
This guitar riff represents my APM (I'm not hating on Paramore in any way)
This guitar solo represents the top tier pro-gamer's APM
That's right, I do not play at 250 - 300 actions per minute and therefore cannot process let alone act upon the complex strategies that such multitasking skill would allow me to do.
Yes, there are pros with low-ish APM and realistically my APM is not that tiny (Around 133 average match APM according to any replay I upload on drop.sc)
But my multitasking is realistically shit. Compare that to the likes of say.... your average Korean progamer.
#5 - It's too big a gamble. I don't know how people like Day[9] or Qxc could do it. I mean get involved in the StarCraft scene and study at the same time. But realistically, Qxc performs greatly when he's got time off. Just look at when he all-killed Incredible Miracle, even including Mv-fucking-p.
I study, I am working to get a future career. What if I were to say focus my time into getting good at a game, playing the amount a pro-gamer would, but then it turns out that I'm just not that good.
Good food for thought isn't it
#6 - Not from Korea Okay, this one was worded badly. I don't mean that you have to be of a Korean ethnic background or born in Korea to be good at StarCraft. Look at players like Jinro, HuK and NaNiwa whom practice] in Korea.
Point is, send me to the oGsTL house for a month and give me a Code A seed and you know what I'll do? What many foreigners have already done in the GSL time and time again. Lose 0 - 2 in the Ro48.
CONCLUSION: I admit it, I am not skilled at SC2. So why should you suddenly think that you can go from say.... Silver/Gold/Plat to GM in about 3 weeks then be showered by prize money. There's a reason why these players are decent, it's because they have talent. Yes, you can throw stuff such as "talent is overrated" at me but somebody can just be good at something without necessarily applying the "deliberate practice" suggested by this psychologist who introduced the theory.
On March 08 2012 10:23 Severus_ wrote: those are all excuses. If you want something do it not even God can stop you.
Yeah, but do all the people who say they want to go pro, that it's their dream, nothing would be better, etc etc really mean it? If everyone who said here that they were gonna go pro actually went pro we'd have like 5 new teams of pros already. But, as we all see, there's not. So really, people say they want to go pro or are aspiring to go pro but I think the OP doubts they'd make the cut.
Being pro in any sport is hard, hard work. A lot of these kids really can't make the cut. The reasons listed in the OP are why.
@ HotBid, good for you, I hope you do something you enjoy doing with your newfound time.
Is this a troll post or what? I think those who can't get to grandmaster league with minimum practice / effort don't have what it takes. Thats just common sense. You need to have the base skill to refine it to become the best. You can't start from bronze and end up a pro gamer given a few months... Everyone knows that..
I believe going pro is just something you need to put a lot of practice and have passion in. Personally, I also think its silly to try and "bring people to reality" for the mindset of keep trying and being pro one day dramatically helps e-sports and helps starcraft as a whole. Tons of people play every day aspiring to get better to maybe one day go to tournaments and do well, I for one do this. Some people take that one more step, they want to not only do well in a small tournament, but do well in a huge one and be noticed and picked up by a team. Its a good thing. Now, being realistic in the sense this could fail and this shouldn't be an "all-in" (haha yep I went there!) and study "just in case" is an incredibly smart idea and should be followed by everyone. Think of it as a "safe build". QXC and Day9 both studied and kept starcraft a passion. If it does fail or if they diddnt make it then they have a career to fall back on. I, myself, am doing that. I am persuing my career but still trying to keep that little dream alive and practice starcraft every day to one day make it from the silver league to GM and off to a tournament to play with some of the people I admire the most such as White-Ra and ViOLet. If I somehow in the crazy world made it, that would be awesome. If not, then oh well its still a passion. I suppose in short, starcraft depends on the mindset sometimes and its not stupid to dream.
On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote: In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
But hotbid, thats been your dream for the last 20 years!
These aren't very good reasons to go pro. The best reason is that its almost impossible to have a steady income and support yourself on just sc2. Look at the earnings of the top players.
Mvp, MC and NesTea all have absurd amouts of money, but after that it drops off considerably, and keeps on dropping, until you get to Sjow, who hasn't done anything forever. After that, its not self-sustaining income. Salary helps a lot, but chances are you won't get a salary, or any of this, if you try to go pro.
On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote: In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
But hotbid, thats been your dream for the last 20 years!
These aren't very good reasons to go pro. The best reason is that its almost impossible to have a steady income and support yourself on just sc2. Look at the earnings of the top players.
Mvp, MC and NesTea all have absurd amouts of money, but after that it drops off considerably, and keeps on dropping, until you get to Sjow, who hasn't done anything forever. After that, its not self-sustaining income. Salary helps a lot, but chances are you won't get a salary, or any of this, if you try to go pro.
But lets take a step back, People don't get into Starcraft for the money, They do it because they love it. If you can make just enough to get by I bet 99% of people would go after a dream like this because it's their passion. I do agree, don't drop out of school, or quit your job, or break up with your girlfriend, or stop taking your dog for walks because you want to practice. Continue to play the game as a hobby and get better on your off time. If you have the dedication and the passion you'll get there, But don't try and rush something that really can't be rushed.
On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote: In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
Ohhh my god, I loved reading that xD So accurate!
Not everyone's cut out to be a progamer. Why does it even matter? I SUCK ASS at this game, in terms of talent, I've worked considerably harder than a lot of people I know at the top of the charts and I'm still having trouble breaking into master league. The most important thing is that I'm still having fun with it! I have no aspiration to get payed to play the game, and I certainly didn't buy it with an ambition to get it to pay for itself!
F is for friends who do stuff together, U is for you and me. N is for NO SURVIVORS BECAUSE THE SWARM IS COMING FOR YOUR TERRAN ASS.
You put in the time, you will become pro. I don't think talent plays as much of a factor in starcraft, or video games for that matter, as many people think. Its all about putting in all your time and effort. Once you do that, you can break into the upper echelons of anything, even starcraft.
On March 08 2012 14:03 Rygasm wrote: You put in the time, you will become pro. I don't think talent plays as much of a factor in starcraft, or video games for that matter, as many people think. Its all about putting in all your time and effort. Once you do that, you can break into the upper echelons of anything, even starcraft.
No, there's a reason why Stephano dominates most foreigners, and even many Koreans, despite his lack of extensive practice compared to theirs. And most low-tier foreign players practice as much if not more than their higher-achieving counterparts.
On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote: In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
I'm actually not going to fly to the moon. And neither should you. ^^
OP, although the number of people who could actually become pro-gamers is incredibly small, you focused on all the wrong things. Motivation and dedication and being able to grind out games for 8 hours a day even if you don't want to are all important traits, not "Being too BM". Come on now.
Also, people don't like being told what they can and cannot do
"Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA
On March 08 2012 15:02 DanLee wrote: "Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA
The problem is that we are talking about the very top.
On March 08 2012 15:02 DanLee wrote: "Until the very top in almost anything, all that matters is how hard you work. The problem is most people can't work hard even for things they do have a real passion for." -IdrA
The problem is that we are talking about the very top.
No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro. As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best. The koreans put in way more time than anyone else and they are better than the rest of the world on average, do you think they are born with natural starcraft ability? edit: I should elaborate that I do think talent plays a part but it is a very small part, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro.
I don't think this is an outrageous statement. People can certainly give it a shot if they think their chances are good, and you won't know for sure if you don't try.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best.
When applied generally this is a fallacy, though, as what happens if everyone starts playing a lot and consciously tries to improve? Is everyone then "among the best"? No, some people will still be better than others (some people a lot better than others), and a factor in that gradation will be talent. On a smaller scale this is still true - as you said, Koreans practise a lot. There are lots of Koreans who practise a lot. Some of them are clearly much better than others, however, and certainly not all of them are members of a team.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
I agree with this, but there are very few professional Starcraft 2 players who do not work hard (and the ones who don't aren't that good). At the levels we're talking about, I don't think it's possible to compete with zero talent, and some people unfortunately do have (close to) zero talent in Starcraft 2. Everyone's good and bad at different things. If someone has been in Bronze since release yet has played for hours every day, there's a pretty good chance that they lack the talent to be one of the best in the world.
IdrA's statement is true, but you have to look at the whole of it. Being a professional in most things doesn't require a lot of talent, because the bar for entry is not obscenely high. I can be a lawyer without being an absurdly good one. If I want to be a professional Starcraft 2 player, however, I literally have to be one of the very few best in the world (unless you're valued for other aspects such as PR), which by definition is at the "very top" of which IdrA speaks.
On March 08 2012 10:33 Hot_Bid wrote: In related news, I have decided not to declare for the 2013 NBA draft.
But hotbid, thats been your dream for the last 20 years!
These aren't very good reasons to go pro. The best reason is that its almost impossible to have a steady income and support yourself on just sc2. Look at the earnings of the top players.
Mvp, MC and NesTea all have absurd amouts of money, but after that it drops off considerably, and keeps on dropping, until you get to Sjow, who hasn't done anything forever. After that, its not self-sustaining income. Salary helps a lot, but chances are you won't get a salary, or any of this, if you try to go pro.
Isn't that just winnings, have the numbers on their paychecks been released? Didn't Huk say he earned more a year from his sponsor deal than Grubby did back in the day? Or maybe that was just rumours xD
On March 08 2012 11:09 GlintFox wrote: I believe going pro is just something you need to put a lot of practice and have passion in. Personally, I also think its silly to try and "bring people to reality" for the mindset of keep trying and being pro one day dramatically helps e-sports and helps starcraft as a whole. Tons of people play every day aspiring to get better to maybe one day go to tournaments and do well, I for one do this. Some people take that one more step, they want to not only do well in a small tournament, but do well in a huge one and be noticed and picked up by a team. Its a good thing. Now, being realistic in the sense this could fail and this shouldn't be an "all-in" (haha yep I went there!) and study "just in case" is an incredibly smart idea and should be followed by everyone. Think of it as a "safe build". QXC and Day9 both studied and kept starcraft a passion. If it does fail or if they diddnt make it then they have a career to fall back on. I, myself, am doing that. I am persuing my career but still trying to keep that little dream alive and practice starcraft every day to one day make it from the silver league to GM and off to a tournament to play with some of the people I admire the most such as White-Ra and ViOLet. If I somehow in the crazy world made it, that would be awesome. If not, then oh well its still a passion. I suppose in short, starcraft depends on the mindset sometimes and its not stupid to dream.
you couldn't have said it any better. i'm in gold tho for now
So since your not good no one should try to? All these reasons start with I not you, not everyone just you. Your reasons are since you can't do something no one can. and really your not korean? What does that have to do koreans aren't born better a sc2 they practice differently/better.
2/5 you wrote out a bunch of nonrelevant things well but well they were about you not, joesmoe
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: No, the OP was saying that noone should try to become a pro player because you don't know if your capable until you put in the work. What I was trying to say with that quote is that if you really enjoy the game and can't keep away from it, playing 4+ hours every day and it feels easy then you could become a pro.
I don't think this is an outrageous statement. People can certainly give it a shot if they think their chances are good, and you won't know for sure if you don't try.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: As long as you play a lot and consciously try to improve you will eventually be among the best.
When applied generally this is a fallacy, though, as what happens if everyone starts playing a lot and consciously tries to improve? Is everyone then "among the best"? No, some people will still be better than others (some people a lot better than others), and a factor in that gradation will be talent. On a smaller scale this is still true - as you said, Koreans practise a lot. There are lots of Koreans who practise a lot. Some of them are clearly much better than others, however, and certainly not all of them are members of a team.
On March 08 2012 15:13 DanLee wrote: hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
I agree with this, but there are very few professional Starcraft 2 players who do not work hard (and the ones who don't aren't that good). At the levels we're talking about, I don't think it's possible to compete with zero talent, and some people unfortunately do have (close to) zero talent in Starcraft 2. Everyone's good and bad at different things. If someone has been in Bronze since release yet has played for hours every day, there's a pretty good chance that they lack the talent to be one of the best in the world.
IdrA's statement is true, but you have to look at the whole of it. Being a professional in most things doesn't require a lot of talent, because the bar for entry is not obscenely high. I can be a lawyer without being an absurdly good one. If I want to be a professional Starcraft 2 player, however, I literally have to be one of the very few best in the world (unless you're valued for other aspects such as PR), which by definition is at the "very top" of which IdrA speaks.
I'm so glad someone understood what I was saying, I still think I'm right about people who play a lot will eventually be among the best. I just think this holds true because the practice continuously builds upon itself and that is why I said eventually you will be among the best. Other than that I agree with what you said about talent separating people once it reaches that level. Then there is also quality of practice, the person who looks through replays that confused them and always tries to fix the biggest holes in their game first are gonna improve so much faster than someone who simply mass games on the ladder. To clarify though, even if you just mass game on the ladder you will improve in some way unless you've hit the maximum of your potential in this game.
EPT
Flash, 
Jaedong, 
Bisu, 
I SUCK ASS at this game, in terms of talent, I've worked considerably harder than a lot of people I know at the top of the charts and I'm still having trouble breaking into master league. The most important thing is that I'm still having fun with it! I have no aspiration to get payed to play the game, and I certainly didn't buy it with an ambition to get it to pay for itself!
