• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:31
CEST 19:31
KST 02:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun10[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists21[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) ASL21 General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [ASL21] Ro16 Group D Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2655 users

War Of The Machines: SC2 Parallel

Blogs > Setev
Post a Reply
Setev
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Malaysia390 Posts
March 05 2012 22:03 GMT
#1
Hi guys,

*Start of disclaimer
This is my first time writing a blog, and I am simply writing down my thoughts, opinions and imagination, sometimes backed by thorough research and sometimes not at all. So please excuse any statements I made in this blog that offends any parties dead or alive, past, present, and future. Oh, also forgive me for the (often) awkward language and occasional grammatical error.
*End of disclaimer

I just read the summary for the book on robotic warfare "Wired for War" by PW Singer, as well as Daniel Suarez's techno thrillers "Daemon" and "Freedom". In those books, especially Daniel's novels, highlighted the virtues of distributed systems over centralized systems in robotic and cyber warfare while Singer tried to remain neutral and made a case of combining the two systems to make a hybrid system which supposedly combines the advantages of both systems.

For those who haven't read the books, centralized systems means that there is a controller (human or otherwise) controlling a robot like a RV car. This is the system used by modern bomb squads to control and interact with the bomb disposal bot. On the other hand, distributed systems are much more exciting because they are autonomous systems and are kinda like Skynet - there is no central hub, and to destroy the system means having to destroy every single combat unit. I'll copy and paste a portion of Singer's book to explain distributed systems:

+ Show Spoiler +
As one Army colonel asks, “Obviously the birds lack published doctrine and are not receiving instructions from their flight leader, so how can they accomplish the kind of self-organization necessary for flocking?” The answer actually comes from a researcher, Craig Reynolds, who built a program for what he called “boids,” or artificial birds. As an Army report on the experience described, all the boids needed to do to organize themselves together as a flock was for each individual to follow three simple rules:

1. Separation: Don’t get too close to any object, including other boids;
2. Alignment: Try to match the speed and direction of nearby boids; and
3. Cohesion: Head for the perceived center of mass of the boids in your immediate neighborhood.

”This basic boid system worked so well that it was also used in the movie Batman Returns to create the realistic bat sequences.


And more:

+ Show Spoiler +
The Santa Fe Institute carried out a study on these proliferated autonomous weapons (PRAWNS), which shows how this concept might work in robotic warfare (Lockheed Martin has a similar program on robot swarms funded by DARPA, called the “Wolves of War”).

While each PRAWN would be very simple, and almost dumb (indeed, their artificial intelligence would be less than the systems already on the market today), the sum of their swarm would be far more effective than any single system. Why drive a single SWORDS or Packbot into a building, room by room, to see if an enemy is hiding there, when a soldier could let loose a swarm of tiny robots that would scramble out and automatically search on their own?


Meanwhile, in real life, with the rise of drones and robotics usage in recent wars, it seems that we are moving towards fighting proxy wars, where the business of war can be conducted between parties without the loss of human lives on the battlefield. Would this make wars more likely to happen? I think that is exactly what will happen. After all, violence solved more disputes than any diplomatic efforts. Its a quote I found in Sun Tzu's Art Of War. I think.

Now, there are a lot of ramifications in "outsourcing" the duty of soldiering to machines. To simplify, I will categorize said ramifications into 3 groups: Social, Economic, and Political ramifications.

Since this is my first ever blog, I won't talk about those boring, factual topics. Instead, I want to talk about this topic in a more fun manner.

Imagine that we are a defense contractor in the 23rd century. We have all the funding, political leverage and technological expertise we need to design a machine army from scratch, presumably to defend against a Protoss or Zerg invasion. So, what design philosophy shall we pursue?

Basic Land Based Fighting Units

There are two schools of thought that I encountered when searching the Internet - the basic fighting unit either is a humanoid, using contemporary weapons and tactics like a marine bot; or it could take the form of a vehicle or insect, like a hellion or stalker or zergling bot.

On another tangent, Scientific American reports that "soft bodied, shape-shifing" robots will be soon developed to bypass clunky gears, wheels, treads and components that use up a lot of energy to operate.

URL:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=shape-shifting-robot-shows-spine

According to Daniel H Wilson, he has 5 good reasons why humanoid robots will be the main fighting units on the battlefield of the future.

1. There is a one-to-one mapping between the human and the humanoid body.
2. Humanoid robots take advantage of human environments and equipment.
3. Humanoid robots are easier to train.
4. Teamwork is easier between humans and humanoids.
5. The locals could potentially interact with humanoid robots

Personally, I disagree with most of Daniel's reasons.

Reason number one,
I don't think that the human body allows for effective movement. A leonine body will allow faster travel across almost all types of terrain, although a valid argument is that the human body is built for endurance running, and can provide more mileage per unit energy. I wonder, will you rather build a zergling (4 legged leonine) or a marine (bipedal humanoid) or a hellion (wheeled) as your primary land based robotic fighting unit?

Reason number two.
I partially agree with this point. Guns are good to have in a war. The ability to kill your enemy at range and quickly had always been the key to victory for most wars. The invention of the bow and arrow allowed Gengis Khan and his Mongols to conquer and build the largest medieval empire known to man. Improvements in gun technology allowed the American settlers to defeat and drive out American Indians. However, in a war where the combatants don't really stop fighting when they were maimed by bullets, will guns be as effective?

If a marine bot shot a charging zergling bot a few times, but failed to total the zergling bot, who will emerge the winner in the close quarters combat? Its still not safe to say that the marine bot will win. Plus, guns need ammunition, which will require more elaborate logistics to supply, compared to blades.

Before this gets too long, I'll stop here and continue next time. Although I write this mainly to put my thoughts to paper (as I intend to write SF novels in the far future), please feel free to provide inputs.


*****
I'm the King Of Nerds
Tomba
Profile Joined January 2012
Norway106 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-05 22:26:48
March 05 2012 22:24 GMT
#2
Interesting stuff you got here. I think the better bot weapon would be the one disconnected from humans and doing stuff on their own(only taking orders perhaps), because humans are slow and not very effective and will most likely make errors.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-05 22:24:58
March 05 2012 22:24 GMT
#3
I think your quotation about wars solving more disputes is from Starship Troopers.

I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Ixtlilton
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States67 Posts
March 05 2012 22:30 GMT
#4
I read the whole thing and it seemed somewhat interesting, but I feel the need to point out that bows and arrows predate recorded history, and Ghengis Khan lived very much so in recorded history. I can't really comment on the rest, since it all seems to be mainly based on speculation, especially your points. I can only really say that I think combat robots that cannot be shut down through a central mechanism seems like a bad idea, and who says you need hands when you can integrate guns into just about anywhere on a robot?
How about a nice slice of quiche?
TG Manny
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States325 Posts
March 05 2012 22:43 GMT
#5
As far as war becoming more likely, I disagree. However I'll limit my reasoning to a few simple statements. First, the more powerful everyone is the more careful they become toward each other. Second, it is not nearly as profitable in either monetary wealth or power to directly go to war with the other. In SC2 terms, it is "Cheesing" your opponent--but the game isn't 1v1 and the opponent has backup. Better to macro and get ahead in economy, upgrades, or tech and "timing attack".

Second, assuming the time of the setting it is safe to say that people have reached the singularity (at least the ability is there whether ethics says it is good to do so or not). Let us assume that drones are actually humane brains in mechanical systems--the top tier fighting machine that feels no fatigue and can be many places at once. Let us also assume we're still on the same relative earth and not intergalactic society yet, it is almost certain the main units of destruction will be unified machines of flight as well as aquatic movement. Surgical strikes will be so potent and precise that there would be no need to have a standing ground army that is of the same discipline (if at all).

One thing that games don't take into much consideration, SC2 especially, is that air-fighters are the most lethal and potent strikers that can go in and out in the blink of an eye and raze a city, or a single building, or just a single office...Submarines are just as potent in the sense of being a way to control the air as well as be used for intelligence at key locales.

Therefore I think that the primary unit of "ground war" will be something that works as a hyper mobile and long distance AA with high precision. If it had to be anything bio-mechanical I would bet that a genetic variation of the human would be ideal so that there would be tight reflexes, tons of utility in its dexterity, and ability to be hidden very quickly. 4-legged be damned, if I have a gun and a way to stop your claws/teeth from getting into my skin (chasis?) I won't be going down in a fight so easy and be able to keep you from coming in at all.

Singularity is at hand...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 260
TKL 159
UpATreeSC 100
BRAT_OK 62
MindelVK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4736
Larva 448
HiyA 445
Hyuk 183
Movie 105
firebathero 102
Sexy 95
Backho 78
yabsab 51
Bale 29
[ Show more ]
Rock 24
soO 20
Shine 20
Sacsri 19
Counter-Strike
fl0m4514
byalli529
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu161
Other Games
Grubby985
FrodaN901
B2W.Neo810
ceh9478
C9.Mang0136
mouzStarbuck126
KnowMe90
QueenE75
Trikslyr54
Fuzer 53
RotterdaM26
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV256
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream71
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 121
• Adnapsc2 9
• Shameless 7
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 27
• blackmanpl 25
• Michael_bg 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1975
• TFBlade1099
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur169
Other Games
• imaqtpie443
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
15h 29m
Escore
16h 29m
INu's Battles
17h 29m
Classic vs ByuN
SHIN vs ByuN
OSC
19h 29m
Big Brain Bouts
22h 29m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 17h
IPSL
1d 22h
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
6 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-29
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.