|
On February 29 2012 08:22 ziggurat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 04:02 Djzapz wrote:
It just makes me laugh to see middle class Americans barging in here "har har what's $20, a pizza", on an international board where some people can't even think about having a $20 meal because that amount of money can't be found without severely cutting elsewhere.
I find it unfortunate that people who dare try to fight for some kind of standard of equality in the community get laughed at and they get educated about the wonders of the mighty concept of opportunity costs. Perhaps I should give up other luxuries that I have in my life - easy to say over here, for students who think they have it rough but make the equivalent of another country's day's wage in 30 minutes.
These tournaments are more than capable of living off of sponsors and HD stream sales and live attendance - not to mention the open bracket money. This is evidenced by the fact that - well, they fucking do... Some players make at least the high 5 figures in salary, perhaps 6 figures. Multiple players make 6 figures in tournament money.
More importantly though, if you're middle class in a rich country, you're an aristocrat - don't pretend everyone has disposable income because you do. I'm not sure what the point of this post is. It's pretty obvious that people who have the money to buy a computer and have internet access have enough disposable income to spend $20 on a weekend worth of entertainment. I guess there are some that don't. In third world countries people live on less than a dollar a day. So what? None of this has anything to do with the OP. Your point about tournaments make a living off sponsors and HD streams etc seems to assume that they are actually making money. What gives you that idea? I think the reality is that most major tournaments struggle to break even or actually lose money.
That's absurd. I can assure you that plenty of people who frequent this forum have a very cheap computer and the internet isn't exactly expensive to have in many countries, and pretty much a necessity. You say that the OP doesn't talk about that, and I guess you're right in some way, North America is most of the planet, and those strange people who live on $4000 a year and wiggle and jiggle on their Internets, they don't quite matter, although they very well skip 4-5 meals for a crashy and occasionally laggy MLG.
Then you criticize me for assuming that lasting businesses are making money. Why would you assume that they aren't? Has MLG been running for 10 years on good faith and rainbows, OR does it have solid pillars and an increasing customerbase which allows for expansion with the old business model which has always functioned, according to some, until NOW? What's the logic? They have too many customers or something?
The fact that SC2 tournaments are alive and in many cases focusing on SC2 would suggest to anyone knowledgeable that it's sustainable at best and most likely (actually certainly) profitable, which explains their longevity and their ability to shell out an increasing amount of prize pools, which are growing in size themselves. Not to mention, production value is constantly going up (despite the many issues), and that happens regardless of the fact that the community - at least it seems to me - is extremely lenient to being fed with absolute garbage. They have the means to increase production value, even though frankly we'd eat it up and watch those ads. A vocal minority would whine (myself), but a lot of people will white knight terrible tournaments and horrible casters.
MLG is a full blown enterprise, it's healthy. Either way, I'm not too worried for it.
On February 29 2012 09:20 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:47 Snuggles wrote:
So you're a High School kid, a person with massive credit card debt, medical bills to pay, a bankrupt drug addict- w/e you have no way of shedding off some time and scrounging up $20 to watch SC2, make your point there and we'll say its okay. But wait you're actually a frugal college kid. You can afford $20 to watch a live content, but you choose to say you can't- why? Please reflect on yourself before you make that excuse. Do you have an apple laptop? Do you eat out every week? Got a smartphone? Do your jeans look nice? Depending on what your answer to those questions may be, you might not even have the right to say you're a frugal college student and not be able to buy a $20 pass.
I am a university kid. I dont have an apple laptop, I dont eat out even once a week on average, got a smartphone for my birthday, got normal jeans and I lived the past 4 months on a 200€ budget per month which I had to use for food.
Aristocrats says tough luck, eat smaller meals maybe?
|
On February 29 2012 09:21 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 09:20 Skilledblob wrote:On February 28 2012 02:47 Snuggles wrote:
So you're a High School kid, a person with massive credit card debt, medical bills to pay, a bankrupt drug addict- w/e you have no way of shedding off some time and scrounging up $20 to watch SC2, make your point there and we'll say its okay. But wait you're actually a frugal college kid. You can afford $20 to watch a live content, but you choose to say you can't- why? Please reflect on yourself before you make that excuse. Do you have an apple laptop? Do you eat out every week? Got a smartphone? Do your jeans look nice? Depending on what your answer to those questions may be, you might not even have the right to say you're a frugal college student and not be able to buy a $20 pass.
I am a university kid. I dont have an apple laptop, I dont eat out even once a week on average, got a smartphone for my birthday, got normal jeans and I lived the past 4 months on a 200€ budget per month which I had to use for food. Aristocrats says tough luck, eat smaller meals maybe?
I really dont care if MLG wants to charge money for their streams but what I really do not like is people like the OP who feel obligated to tell me how I am not passionate enough about SC2 just because I dont want to eat one week rice only.
|
On February 29 2012 09:26 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 09:21 Djzapz wrote:On February 29 2012 09:20 Skilledblob wrote:On February 28 2012 02:47 Snuggles wrote:
So you're a High School kid, a person with massive credit card debt, medical bills to pay, a bankrupt drug addict- w/e you have no way of shedding off some time and scrounging up $20 to watch SC2, make your point there and we'll say its okay. But wait you're actually a frugal college kid. You can afford $20 to watch a live content, but you choose to say you can't- why? Please reflect on yourself before you make that excuse. Do you have an apple laptop? Do you eat out every week? Got a smartphone? Do your jeans look nice? Depending on what your answer to those questions may be, you might not even have the right to say you're a frugal college student and not be able to buy a $20 pass.
I am a university kid. I dont have an apple laptop, I dont eat out even once a week on average, got a smartphone for my birthday, got normal jeans and I lived the past 4 months on a 200€ budget per month which I had to use for food. Aristocrats says tough luck, eat smaller meals maybe? I really dont care if MLG wants to charge money for their streams but what I really do not like is people like the OP who feel obligated to tell me how I am not passionate enough about SC2 just because I dont want to eat one week rice only.
Well that's the west for you. See, we're the center of the world right, and since we handle life with 5 figures, the idea is that everyone should be fine with 4. Hell, they speak weird languages over there, perhaps they can translate their passion into USD.
|
On February 29 2012 08:49 Snuggles wrote:
-This is not a charity. You guys keep making me out to be the guy with the Santa hat ringing my bell for donations. Fuck you that's not what I'm trying to do- I can't put it any simpler.
The product they offered is not competetive. $20 for a weekend of ONE game is simply too much. Take a look at other events, or other sports products that are being broadcast. So yeah, what you're doing is a charity.
|
I love Brood War to death and have been fortunate enough to enjoy watching korean pro bw for many years virtually free of charge. But korean bw is another bunch of players and another bunch of tournaments that i can watch. It doesn't matter to me if I'm watching a tournament with a purse of $50 or $5,000, I don't feel the need to donate money to for-profit organizations in order to support my own love of the game.
I could easily save that $20 from 5 arenas and turn it into a $100 pro-am tournament and I will doing a million times more to support the community, not e-sports.
|
I wouldn't mind paying over $100/year for better quality production. I wouldn't even mind $500/year eSPORTS quality was up to par with something like ESPN.
Some of us just don't have time to read articles all day and look at TLPD to find out what been going on.
For now, I can't justify spending on most eSPORTS events, so I feel kind of hypocritical. I guess that's just something they'll have to figure out. Either that, or someone has to see the value and put up some huge expenses up front knowing there is going to be a huge market potential. Pretty much like what Twitch and Own3d are doing, but I want to see it on a much bigger scale.
|
Hmmm... a bit of a weird post... you're trying to tell others what to value something based on YOUR own internal evaluation criteria.
The bottom line is - if something is not worth it, then the consumers won't pay for it. It's very simple economics. The consumers don't really care that it's MLG's first time, etc, they care for value of money. i.e. the utility they get out of it vs the price they pay.
I would've loved to see MLG's market research (or non-research). If they had lowered their price to $10, would they have more than doubled their revenue? Would they have created more hype and stream numbers?
Anyways, $20 is not realistic price by MLG when you consider their competitor, the GSL - for $70 (GSL Light), you get 5 seasons (e.g. $14 per season) of the best league in the world. If you had decided to splurge a little, $100 (GSL Premium) or $20 a season will get you dual-stream.
Also, if people think that I'm being hypocritical, I purchase GSL Premium ($100) and GSTL Light ($55) because I felt that the product was worth it. I didn't buy MLG Arena for $20 because I didn't think it was worth the money.
|
On February 28 2012 02:47 Snuggles wrote:Hey sure, we can all agree that MLG could lower the price down a bit, but I think that only people who have purchased the pass are entitled to make that statement. "I would've purchased a pass if it was cheaper." How could you say that? There has never been a PPV model exactly like MLG's, this is the first time it has been done in this format. You bought a GSL ticket for $20 for an entire season? That and what MLG is doing is different, not entirely but still different enough for you to lose basis on making comparisons between the two. You simply don't know exactly what to expect, therefore you cannot make profound assumptions that you think should be laid down as the law.
THIS x infinity.
As a person who managed to buy the pass (after credit card expired w/o noticing) last minute it was far and beyond my expectations. I drop money and time into my local community on a weekly basis and I never expect anything for it, a nod or good job is hugely appreciated and one day when I get to see Sundance, Lee, Adam or any of the other MLG GSL IPL NASL (fuck, CSL, NSL, TESPA, NESL) guys the first thing I am going to do is thank them, for their passion, their sacrifices and the future they're building.
It floors me that these people I hang out with regularly and profess a passion for the SC2 community are gaming the system by watching re-streams and incognito'n bypasses. Grow up.
Doing this may be doing the Bible a Disservice but as the verse goes, 'Faith without works is dead' (probably not a direct translation). I have faith that e-Sports will be around when I have kids, that it WILL be a viable alternative to Baseball, Hockey, Football (both kinds) or Basketball. Along with alot of other parts that IS the future I want to live in, and I will act on it.
Ok, off my soap box now.
Really pisses me off when people think they are the clever ones because the managed to get around systems put in place to make shit profitable.
We are all in this together, MLG is NOT THE MAN.
EDIT- On February 29 2012 10:43 a176 wrote:
I love Brood War to death and have been fortunate enough to enjoy watching korean pro bw for many years virtually free of charge. But korean bw is another bunch of players and another bunch of tournaments that i can watch. It doesn't matter to me if I'm watching a tournament with a purse of $50 or $5,000, I don't feel the need to donate money to for-profit organizations in order to support my own love of the game.
I could easily save that $20 from 5 arenas and turn it into a $100 pro-am tournament and I will doing a million times more to support the community, not e-sports.
Do it then, if this is just you being another child offering up hypothetical ideas while passing the buck to another then GTFO.
|
On February 29 2012 12:11 Gofarman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:47 Snuggles wrote:Hey sure, we can all agree that MLG could lower the price down a bit, but I think that only people who have purchased the pass are entitled to make that statement. "I would've purchased a pass if it was cheaper." How could you say that? There has never been a PPV model exactly like MLG's, this is the first time it has been done in this format. You bought a GSL ticket for $20 for an entire season? That and what MLG is doing is different, not entirely but still different enough for you to lose basis on making comparisons between the two. You simply don't know exactly what to expect, therefore you cannot make profound assumptions that you think should be laid down as the law.
THIS x infinity. As a person who managed to buy the pass (after credit card expired w/o noticing) last minute it was far and beyond my expectations. I drop money and time into my local community on a weekly basis and I never expect anything for it, a nod or good job is hugely appreciated and one day when I get to see Sundance, Lee, Adam or any of the other MLG GSL IPL NASL (fuck, CSL, NSL, TESPA, NESL) guys the first thing I am going to do is thank them, for their passion, their sacrifices and the future they're building. It floors me that these people I hang out with regularly and profess a passion for the SC2 community are gaming the system by watching re-streams and incognito'n bypasses. Grow up. Doing this may be doing the Bible a Disservice but as the verse goes, 'Faith without works is dead' (probably not a direct translation). I have faith that e-Sports will be around when I have kids, that it WILL be a viable alternative to Baseball, Hockey, Football (both kinds) or Basketball. Along with alot of other parts that IS the future I want to live in, and I will act on it. Ok, off my soap box now. Really pisses me off when people think they are the clever ones because the managed to get around systems put in place to make shit profitable. We are all in this together, MLG is NOT THE MAN. EDIT- Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 10:43 a176 wrote:
I love Brood War to death and have been fortunate enough to enjoy watching korean pro bw for many years virtually free of charge. But korean bw is another bunch of players and another bunch of tournaments that i can watch. It doesn't matter to me if I'm watching a tournament with a purse of $50 or $5,000, I don't feel the need to donate money to for-profit organizations in order to support my own love of the game.
I could easily save that $20 from 5 arenas and turn it into a $100 pro-am tournament and I will doing a million times more to support the community, not e-sports. Do it then, if this is just you being another child offering up hypothetical ideas while passing the buck to another then GTFO.
Disagreed - people are entitled to vote with their wallets - if they feel it's not worth it, then they shouldn't feel any obligation to purchase it. I myself voted with my wallet by purchasing GSL Premium ($100) and GSTL Light ($55) because I feel they are great products. I didn't buy MLG because it's not worth it to me. The whole "supporting e-sports" line is so cliche and overused nowadays.
However, I agree with your point about the "Really pisses me off when people think they are the clever ones because the managed to get around systems put in place to make shit profitable." Illegal actions should be punished accordingly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
