• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:46
CET 21:46
KST 05:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion6Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win When will we find out if there are more tournament I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1668 users

Why Can't I Hold All These ZvZs?

Blogs > EternaLLegacy
Post a Reply
EternaLLegacy
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States410 Posts
February 26 2012 20:57 GMT
#1
I took the advice of some people in my last blog and switched to zerg, and I've found some fairly stable playstyles that feel pretty good. I had played zerg for a few months in beta, but the game was so imbalanced and the maps so bad at that point that it was really 90% cheese. So many 4-gates and 2 rax scv/marine allins. You all know how it was...

Well, now that those strategies have more or less died off, playing zerg feels a lot better, and I feel way more in control of the game than as protoss. Basically, I see why Idra switched from P to Z way back when.

But, one problem has emerged: Every time I click the matchmaking button something miraculous occurs.

I get a:

ZVZ!

Yep, that's right! I'm finding zvz something like 75-80% of my games, maybe higher. I wasn't playing this many games vs zergs as protoss. I have the same maps thumbed down. What gives? Why so many ZvZs?

Now, ZvZ is still better than PvP, I feel, although it's still pretty unstable and coinflippy. At least overlords and lings can give good scouting info past the opening, and so I don't feel like I'm in the dark until I plop down a 200/100 building and wait for a 25/75 unit to build and meander across the map. 5 minutes later I can finally react to what's going on. So, I feel like I have more control in ZvZ, and that's good. But seriously, I want to play other matchups too. Playing zvp and zvt is much more interesting.


This is exactly what an idea I've been bringing up since early beta is supposed to solve:

Be able to select what matchup you want to queue for, and have a subrank for each matchup! (that's 9 in total!)

Overall rank would be based on a weighted average of all three matchups, for each race. Ergo, I'd have a T rank, a Z rank, and P rank, with 3 subranks each. The highest rated subrank would be weighted the least, the middle in the middle, and the lowest the most. This would punish people for overplaying one matchup, would encourage people to work on their worst matchup, and would make overall rank by race a good all-around indicator. This would help people find their worst matchup statistically as well, without having to go to external resources. And of course, it would solve the issue of: "I want to play ZvP today, not 20 ZvZs" which is a win for everyone and would encourage people to play more.

And of course, you could always queue for random race and random matchup, if you wanted lower queue times.

So, thoughts on switching to Zerg? The MM system? My idea for improving MM?

**
Statists gonna State.
Skelephile
Profile Joined June 2010
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 21:10:30
February 26 2012 21:09 GMT
#2
north america is pretty much pure zerg now becuase everyone is switching over to the easy race, and with the retarded snipe nerf u can bet even more zergs will come, when i ladder i get about 60% zvz 30% zvp and 10% zvt

if u wanna practice other matchups u better find some practice partners, especially vs terran

User was warned for this post
Zerg desperately needs a sAviOr,
ClockToweR
Profile Joined March 2011
United States61 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 22:00:04
February 26 2012 21:59 GMT
#3
I get TvZs about 70% of the time, with almost never ever ever getting TvTs. People really just have been switching to zerg because right now with how the game works, its easier to do well with than the other races from low-masters below.

EDIT: Kinda like how you also just switched to zerg xD
Pendulum.161 "Please ignore the burrowed banelings..."
Vladoks
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany136 Posts
February 26 2012 21:59 GMT
#4
i'm having the same experience on EU, platinum level
UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
February 26 2012 22:48 GMT
#5
Haha, good title. Yeah, ZvZ is overwhelmingly common and frankly horrible. Not fun, I cheese in most of them because I just don't wanna play them.

Anyway, on your idea, I hate it :D No offense, but that would really ruin the ladder. If I'm insane and queue up for a ZvZ (there are some who like it, apparently...) then it's gonna be a ten minute wait for a game. Players will only play one matchup because it's their favorite (I would only play ZvT, personally) and a whole aspect of the game would be lost.

I really like the mystery of the queue, if you wanna play a specific matchup play a custom with a friend or practice partner.
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
EternaLLegacy
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 22:52:14
February 26 2012 22:49 GMT
#6
On February 27 2012 06:59 ClockToweR wrote:
I get TvZs about 70% of the time, with almost never ever ever getting TvTs. People really just have been switching to zerg because right now with how the game works, its easier to do well with than the other races from low-masters below.

EDIT: Kinda like how you also just switched to zerg xD


Well Blizzard insists that Terran not have a viable lategame vs either race, so I can see why there's so few terrans. I did just finally play a string of protosses. ZvP is very much winnable for zerg if you don't get caught off balance early, but jesus christ cannon rushes...


On February 27 2012 07:48 UmiNotsuki wrote:
Haha, good title. Yeah, ZvZ is overwhelmingly common and frankly horrible. Not fun, I cheese in most of them because I just don't wanna play them.

Anyway, on your idea, I hate it :D No offense, but that would really ruin the ladder. If I'm insane and queue up for a ZvZ (there are some who like it, apparently...) then it's gonna be a ten minute wait for a game. Players will only play one matchup because it's their favorite (I would only play ZvT, personally) and a whole aspect of the game would be lost.

I really like the mystery of the queue, if you wanna play a specific matchup play a custom with a friend or practice partner.


That's why you have a weighted ranking. If you don't play ZvZ (or PvP or whatever else sucks) you'll never progress higher in rating past a point, no matter how many wins you get in other matchups. And besides, if everyone avoids the bad matchups, then isn't that a good thing? Won't people have more fun? It's not like pros don't practice those outside the ladder anyways...
Statists gonna State.
mrafaeldie12
Profile Joined July 2011
Brazil537 Posts
February 26 2012 23:17 GMT
#7
I switched to terran due to the insane amount of ZvZs i was facing. Im finally getting the hang of TvZ now, with ove 60% winrate :D (usually lose when it goes to the late-late game, damn you sniper nerf). Now i'm oddly finding an insane amount of TvP.
"..it all comes thumbling down thumbling down thumblin down"
LunaSaint
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom620 Posts
February 27 2012 01:06 GMT
#8
Watching Snute play has given me a lot of respect for ZvZ, but I still feel your pain. ZvZ is one reason why I'm quite happy to stay Terran. It's just not what I look for in the game.

Generally, I tend to get one matchup heavily per day. Usually this is TvP (something I don't complain about - it's grown on me a lot), but I've also had days where I get 9 TvZs in a row and call it after that.

Personally, I don't mind it at all, though I don't play as frequently as I should. I enjoy that I can focus on one matchup per day.

...but when every day is ZvZ day, I can't say I'd enjoy that at all.
TORTOISE
Profile Joined December 2010
United States515 Posts
February 27 2012 03:41 GMT
#9
You should try my zvz strategy: Leave the game. That's right. I keep my MMR low while simultaneously avoiding what I consider to be a horrible matchup. Win/win situation, isn't it?
◕ ‿‿ ◕ ๑•́ ₃ •̀๑ ( ͡ ° ͜ ʖ ͡°)
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
February 27 2012 04:06 GMT
#10
Ah, I tended to get a ton of ZvZs back when I played Random. Heck, the only reason I got promoted from Gold into Plat was because I won 90% of those ZvZs, since Plat Zergs couldn't seem to figure out ZvZ back then and always haphazardly teched into Mutas, which I countered with mass Queens, Spores, and Roaches. Then I switched to Terran and got my ass kicked haha.

Sometimes, I can't tell if I'm playing the SC2 ladder or the PDPop MSL...
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#37
RotterdaM728
TKL 337
IndyStarCraft 245
BRAT_OK 153
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 728
TKL 337
IndyStarCraft 245
MaxPax 166
BRAT_OK 153
ProTech148
JuggernautJason130
UpATreeSC 120
trigger 70
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 618
Shuttle 363
Dewaltoss 116
Dota 2
Gorgc5706
League of Legends
C9.Mang0177
Counter-Strike
fl0m1683
Fnx 1645
Coldzera 1514
Foxcn325
adren_tv108
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu574
Other Games
summit1g4120
Grubby2871
FrodaN988
Beastyqt800
ToD339
allub255
Harstem184
ArmadaUGS182
Fuzer 181
RushiSC52
Mew2King40
PiLiPiLi12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 169
• Reevou 6
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 33
• 80smullet 26
• FirePhoenix10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3486
League of Legends
• Jankos3038
• TFBlade1244
Other Games
• imaqtpie1676
• Shiphtur185
Upcoming Events
OSC
14h 14m
Shameless vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Percival
Krystianer vs TBD
Cure vs SHIN
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 13h
OSC
1d 14h
Big Brain Bouts
3 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.