• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:35
CEST 05:35
KST 12:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course11Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !10Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results1
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review ASL Tickets to Live Event Finals? Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
[G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1835 users

experimental pvp in s6

Blogs > Alejandrisha
Post a Reply
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
February 21 2012 06:04 GMT
#1
those cool enough to have checked out my stream this ladder season will already be privy to this information.

build I've been using:
9py(cb nex 11 and 13)
12gate
14 gas
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
20 gas
22 stalker; wg (3cb; 4 if aggression present)
24 pylon
25 stalker (cb)
sentry (against 1 gas build, 2 gate to finish with core builds, unless gas taken + mined; in this case sentry is warped in after wg)
29 stargate
31 2nd gate
32 forge

alternatively:

9py(cb nex 11 and 13)
12gate
14 gas
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
20 gas
22 stalker; wg (3cb; 4 if aggression present)
24 pylon
25 stalker (cb)
sentry (against 1 gas build, 2 gate to finish with core builds, unless gas taken + mined; in this case sentry is warped in after wg)
29 2nd gate
31 stargate
32 forge

win 75% (36-12)

what I've discovered:
penix imba

vs sg play: expo with cannons into 2sg phoenix; low stalker count and archons added asap; switch to voids with SGs if opponent stop phoenix produciton, or at 16 phoenixes. air upgrades are essential

vs blink robo: take nat after opponent; if opponent doesn't take nat, stop at 6 phoenix and power immo sentry zealot and some stalkers; if opponent takes nat, double robo immortal with switch to archon/colo; take 3rd after opponent; if opponent doesn't take 3rd, power off of two bases (4-5wg 2 robo) and wait for 2 base timing

vs 1 base robo: switch to voids after 5-6 phoenixes and beat colo timing with immort phoenix void zealot

vs 1 base blink sans robo: prevent blink with sentries, add immortals and stop at 4-6 phoenix; add 1-2 cannons; check for nat timing if any

vs fe: expand after opponent; stop at 6 phoenix and prevent opponent obs scout of nat with obs + phoenix (opponent cannot cb probes as fast as you can if he doesn't know you have expanded for fear of sg + wg or sg + robo wg timing-- double robo-- switch to void; blink + colo stop at 6 phoenixes and switch to double robo immo + colo or single robo archon

general observations

zealots are bad in composition-- only use for WP harass or warp in to harass expansions/production

stalkers are bad in composition--anything a stalker can do an immortal can do better; blink ins are nice but WP harass with zealot or dt is better in every situation

cutting down on zealots to boost production capabilities in forges, gateways, robos and other various tech structures is beneficial at every point

cannons are imba-- vs blink robo can prevent blink in with cannon detection of obs + phoenix to snipe obs; early forge over early robo saves gas for pheonixes and mid-high tier tech units for the purpose of defense against all-ins and dts, and later zealot/dt warp-ins to harass

cutting down on stalker/zealot allows you to move towards your maxed composition early on and will give you the edge later.

ultimate maxed units comps in various situations:
colo/archon/mothership if you can't switch to mass air early on
void/archon/colo(/carrier)/mothership if you can
denial of scouting switch to mass air might force standard late game comp of high colossus count while you are making exclusively air units

expansion timings up to 3rd base are important. from here, minerals are not an issue and a 4th/5th base can be taken at will for additional geysers. use excess minerals for cannons+nexi+assimilators and WP+zealot for harass/denial of expansions/force movement of enemy units
late game obs speed essential in tandem with phoenix + mother ship combo: if you have speed obs and phoenix, you can kill obs and force retreat even if your opponent has a mother ship as well

replay pack coming when i finish writing my english essay in a few hrs or by tomorrow at the latest. for now you'll have to take my word

*****
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
February 21 2012 06:12 GMT
#2
Just when I was getting bored of PvP and looking for something new. You never fail to deliver the awesome builds, thank you good sir!
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
February 21 2012 06:16 GMT
#3
thx! i was finding pvp very boring too. this style will almost always force 3+ base play and it will come down to play strength rather than weird timings no one has ever used before. you will get edges in multitasking where i used to find i couldn't make that work in pvp
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
February 21 2012 06:34 GMT
#4
I play a similar style and it is a lot of fun. You advise expanding with opponent but in most cases I've found I can kill him with a 3 or 4-gate phoenix all in.

shikata ga nai
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 21 2012 06:49 GMT
#5
I can't wait to try this out, whenever people go sg vs me I always lose so I think that this is a good strat. My one question is: do you have to do anything different vs a super aggressive 4g pylon at the base of your ramp thing? Or do you still deal with that if you were doing a blink robo play or something similar.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
February 21 2012 10:45 GMT
#6
Hmm seems interesting, I think stargate play is really strong. I'll wait for the replay pack and until then I'll stick with robo twilight
I am Latedi.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
February 21 2012 11:29 GMT
#7
Cool stuff. I have been playing around with stargate pvp a bit, and i never really know when/how to get detection. It seems like 4gate phoenix could kill them when i get the robo blindly, and when i don't get it blindly i should have gotten it faster instead -.-

Fast forge also rules out 4gate phoenix for you, do you feel it's annoying you can't punish some builds (ie, i fucking hate immortal expand)?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-21 14:24:22
February 21 2012 14:22 GMT
#8
Alej, are you a featured streamer? I thought so, but I never see you in the sidebar. If you aren't, maybe I'll have to get in the habit of clicking that "show non-featured" button...

Edit: Nevermind, I just found the list of offline streams and found your name without a blue star. Guess I'll be expanding the streamer list after all.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
February 21 2012 17:31 GMT
#9
On February 21 2012 20:29 Teoita wrote:
Cool stuff. I have been playing around with stargate pvp a bit, and i never really know when/how to get detection. It seems like 4gate phoenix could kill them when i get the robo blindly, and when i don't get it blindly i should have gotten it faster instead -.-

Fast forge also rules out 4gate phoenix for you, do you feel it's annoying you can't punish some builds (ie, i fucking hate immortal expand)?


You should hard counter an immortal expand. That's one of the reasons I think phoenixes are a strong build in the metagame because the expand builds all die blind.

You get detection if you know they have a twilight. You should have time to react.
shikata ga nai
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft338
RuFF_SC2 199
ProTech40
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6799
PianO 645
yabsab 48
Terrorterran 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever835
NeuroSwarm162
League of Legends
Doublelift5616
JimRising 782
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1787
Other Games
summit1g10976
Liquid`RaSZi2047
C9.Mang0517
WinterStarcraft388
XaKoH 208
Sick159
Maynarde123
CosmosSc2 13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick851
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta21
• Mapu3
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki21
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo608
• Stunt212
Other Games
• Scarra1410
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
6h 25m
Afreeca Starleague
6h 25m
Light vs Flash
INu's Battles
7h 25m
ByuN vs herO
PiGosaur Cup
20h 25m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL
4 days
GSL
5 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-11
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.