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experimental pvp in s6

Blogs > Alejandrisha
Post a Reply
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
February 21 2012 06:04 GMT
#1
those cool enough to have checked out my stream this ladder season will already be privy to this information.

build I've been using:
9py(cb nex 11 and 13)
12gate
14 gas
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
20 gas
22 stalker; wg (3cb; 4 if aggression present)
24 pylon
25 stalker (cb)
sentry (against 1 gas build, 2 gate to finish with core builds, unless gas taken + mined; in this case sentry is warped in after wg)
29 stargate
31 2nd gate
32 forge

alternatively:

9py(cb nex 11 and 13)
12gate
14 gas
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
20 gas
22 stalker; wg (3cb; 4 if aggression present)
24 pylon
25 stalker (cb)
sentry (against 1 gas build, 2 gate to finish with core builds, unless gas taken + mined; in this case sentry is warped in after wg)
29 2nd gate
31 stargate
32 forge

win 75% (36-12)

what I've discovered:
penix imba

vs sg play: expo with cannons into 2sg phoenix; low stalker count and archons added asap; switch to voids with SGs if opponent stop phoenix produciton, or at 16 phoenixes. air upgrades are essential

vs blink robo: take nat after opponent; if opponent doesn't take nat, stop at 6 phoenix and power immo sentry zealot and some stalkers; if opponent takes nat, double robo immortal with switch to archon/colo; take 3rd after opponent; if opponent doesn't take 3rd, power off of two bases (4-5wg 2 robo) and wait for 2 base timing

vs 1 base robo: switch to voids after 5-6 phoenixes and beat colo timing with immort phoenix void zealot

vs 1 base blink sans robo: prevent blink with sentries, add immortals and stop at 4-6 phoenix; add 1-2 cannons; check for nat timing if any

vs fe: expand after opponent; stop at 6 phoenix and prevent opponent obs scout of nat with obs + phoenix (opponent cannot cb probes as fast as you can if he doesn't know you have expanded for fear of sg + wg or sg + robo wg timing-- double robo-- switch to void; blink + colo stop at 6 phoenixes and switch to double robo immo + colo or single robo archon

general observations

zealots are bad in composition-- only use for WP harass or warp in to harass expansions/production

stalkers are bad in composition--anything a stalker can do an immortal can do better; blink ins are nice but WP harass with zealot or dt is better in every situation

cutting down on zealots to boost production capabilities in forges, gateways, robos and other various tech structures is beneficial at every point

cannons are imba-- vs blink robo can prevent blink in with cannon detection of obs + phoenix to snipe obs; early forge over early robo saves gas for pheonixes and mid-high tier tech units for the purpose of defense against all-ins and dts, and later zealot/dt warp-ins to harass

cutting down on stalker/zealot allows you to move towards your maxed composition early on and will give you the edge later.

ultimate maxed units comps in various situations:
colo/archon/mothership if you can't switch to mass air early on
void/archon/colo(/carrier)/mothership if you can
denial of scouting switch to mass air might force standard late game comp of high colossus count while you are making exclusively air units

expansion timings up to 3rd base are important. from here, minerals are not an issue and a 4th/5th base can be taken at will for additional geysers. use excess minerals for cannons+nexi+assimilators and WP+zealot for harass/denial of expansions/force movement of enemy units
late game obs speed essential in tandem with phoenix + mother ship combo: if you have speed obs and phoenix, you can kill obs and force retreat even if your opponent has a mother ship as well

replay pack coming when i finish writing my english essay in a few hrs or by tomorrow at the latest. for now you'll have to take my word

*****
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
February 21 2012 06:12 GMT
#2
Just when I was getting bored of PvP and looking for something new. You never fail to deliver the awesome builds, thank you good sir!
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
February 21 2012 06:16 GMT
#3
thx! i was finding pvp very boring too. this style will almost always force 3+ base play and it will come down to play strength rather than weird timings no one has ever used before. you will get edges in multitasking where i used to find i couldn't make that work in pvp
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
February 21 2012 06:34 GMT
#4
I play a similar style and it is a lot of fun. You advise expanding with opponent but in most cases I've found I can kill him with a 3 or 4-gate phoenix all in.

shikata ga nai
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 21 2012 06:49 GMT
#5
I can't wait to try this out, whenever people go sg vs me I always lose so I think that this is a good strat. My one question is: do you have to do anything different vs a super aggressive 4g pylon at the base of your ramp thing? Or do you still deal with that if you were doing a blink robo play or something similar.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
February 21 2012 10:45 GMT
#6
Hmm seems interesting, I think stargate play is really strong. I'll wait for the replay pack and until then I'll stick with robo twilight
I am Latedi.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
February 21 2012 11:29 GMT
#7
Cool stuff. I have been playing around with stargate pvp a bit, and i never really know when/how to get detection. It seems like 4gate phoenix could kill them when i get the robo blindly, and when i don't get it blindly i should have gotten it faster instead -.-

Fast forge also rules out 4gate phoenix for you, do you feel it's annoying you can't punish some builds (ie, i fucking hate immortal expand)?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-21 14:24:22
February 21 2012 14:22 GMT
#8
Alej, are you a featured streamer? I thought so, but I never see you in the sidebar. If you aren't, maybe I'll have to get in the habit of clicking that "show non-featured" button...

Edit: Nevermind, I just found the list of offline streams and found your name without a blue star. Guess I'll be expanding the streamer list after all.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
February 21 2012 17:31 GMT
#9
On February 21 2012 20:29 Teoita wrote:
Cool stuff. I have been playing around with stargate pvp a bit, and i never really know when/how to get detection. It seems like 4gate phoenix could kill them when i get the robo blindly, and when i don't get it blindly i should have gotten it faster instead -.-

Fast forge also rules out 4gate phoenix for you, do you feel it's annoying you can't punish some builds (ie, i fucking hate immortal expand)?


You should hard counter an immortal expand. That's one of the reasons I think phoenixes are a strong build in the metagame because the expand builds all die blind.

You get detection if you know they have a twilight. You should have time to react.
shikata ga nai
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