EPTso quick, can fly, and the dps is so insane, especially once you get 20+
WoL and Boring Units - Page 2
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
so quick, can fly, and the dps is so insane, especially once you get 20+ | ||
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Zyferous
United States270 Posts
On February 18 2012 16:15 isleyofthenorth wrote: "maddog" LOL. arent they called "hellhound"? I as a zerg player dont need dark swarm and lurkers back though. they just promote turtling. But more micro-intense units(especially with zerg) would be great Dark swarm and lurkers were used just as much, if not more as micro intensive units. Also I find it ironic that two of the most micro intensive units you dislike but you want more micro intensive units for zerg. On February 18 2012 23:34 ThatGuy89 wrote: as a toss player i find mutalisks less fun then collosus so quick, can fly, and the dps is so insane, especially once you get 20+ 20+ mutas is 2k+ min/gas. They're really much less cost effective than a lot of other units out there. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On February 18 2012 16:08 rOse_PedaL wrote: i miss my dark swarm not sure how sc2 players would be able to handle microing vs dark swarm that was some rough shit | ||
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gurrpp
United States437 Posts
On February 18 2012 19:09 ragnorr wrote: Warpgate and Sentry are 2 large parts of why i find protoss really are alot less fun to play than in BW. I would like to try and see how the game would do without macro mechanics, but i dont have much against them. I agree that warpgate in its current iteration is retarded. There's no decision making once you finish the upgrade, since you don't really lose production and you can reinforce faster. I think it would be interesting if warpgates produced significantly slower than normal gateways. If you wanted to play defensively you would produce normally out of your gateways, but if you wanted to have a timing where you have more units, you can morph to warpgates and get two rounds of units basically instantly(round of units finishes from gateways, warp to warpgates and warp in). The downside is you would have a longer cooldown on the warpgates before you could revert back to gateways. Blizzard instead has chosen the retarded way of balancing warp gates and warp gate timings, and chosen to just make gateway units weaker. Every balance change blizzard makes just removes more and more player choice and creativity. The ghost nerf is removing the utility of ghosts against basically any non-psionic unit, so you would only build them to deal with enemy casters or dts lol. The neural parasite nerf basically removed the ability from the infestor's repertoire. Reaper nerfs basically removed the unit from the game. All of these units need to be addressed in terms of balance, but the way they were addressed is awful. On top of this, their reveal of HotS units is really depressing. Removing the carrier? wat. Viper basically hard countering colossus? Introducing a new terran mech unit which has a lot of overlap with the marauder, and really gives no reason to go mech? Removing the mothership and adding the thor as a hero unit? Sometimes I really wonder if blizzard game designers actually think about whether these things even make sense on paper. It really seems like the game is designed by an artist saying, "You know what would really look cool? Tripods from war of the worlds, and we'll call them colossus. Trust me bro, they'll love it". Who actually thought it would be a good idea to give protoss the ability to warp in templars anywhere with pylon power and instantly have enough energy to storm? | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
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Sigrun
United States1655 Posts
In Starcraft 2, these spells have been replaced by spells that are designed to limit the opponent's ability to do anything outright. Fungals that stop an entire group of units from moving, force fields that deny movement and reinforcements down a ramp, and concussive shells that early game pretty much means guaranteed death for any unit hit by it are just so boring to watch because there is literally no different outcome to the situation. You can't micro a group of units stuck in a fungal and escape. You can't move units trapped between force fields or even break them without a massive unit. You can't escape from a group of Marines and Marauders after being hit by a slow grenade without blink. The spells eliminate potential intense micro situations that would make the game more fun and possibly even more exciting for viewers. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
The novelty was fun and I'll admit that for a few months I was thrilled with it. But as I played, comparisons could be made between SCBW and SC2. "Oh that shit again" - admittedly I was one of those people who wanted SC2 to be very similar to BW, a game which I still profoundly love. I'm over that, but the comparisons can still be made. At the "micro" level, the units themselves are boring. Highlights are ghost emps, nearly automated storms, fungal growths and "flanks". Nothing fun to watch. The carriers are impossible to micro, hydras are slow and dreadful to watch, and (as we hear all the time), it's a hard-counter festival. This shows the direction that the devs are taking, and we can see that because they were thinking about the "tempest" for instance. Protoss has issues with mass mutas - so we'll give them a hard counter to mutas. No depth - another a-move easy fix. At the "macro" level, well very little has or will be done about the big balls clashing. Whatever happened to armies spread over 10 screens, dynamic games!!! When watching SCBW's OSL and MSL from the Ro32, I would say a majority of games are at least entertaining, and maybe 15-25% are actually f'ing epic. Entertaining games in SC2 are few and far between IMO, and many are made bearable by good commentators. Epic games in SC2 exist, I won't lie, but they're rare - very rare. I love BW. A game which to this day is the only thing that can make me literally jump on my chair in excitement - me, a boring 22 year old who's strangely fascinated by politics. People will say things like "go back to BW then" and "don't watch/play SC2 if you don't like it", but they're missing the point. I like the community, and the game is OK. I like to think it'll get better, although frankly I'm losing hope. I've been watching IdrA play for a few hours today - and it's a good way to burn off some time, but it's more like I'm a fat, sad slob watching the TV because there's nothing to do - whereas SCBW was exciting and fun. ____ To me, it's very clear that SC2 is inherently less exciting and less dynamic than SCBW. It's in part due to the fact that Blizzard insists on making it very, very "user friendly", and IMO it's also in part due to the fact that all their effort is focused at making the game balanced. And that's why we can't have nice things. In the name of fairness, we're suckers in a politically-correct school and the chicks have boring uniforms that cover everything. In the name of fairness, "fun" things were removed like the khaydarin amulet - others were never put in the game like the lurkers. The devs would rather make small boring changes to balance than big relevant changes that could "break" the game's balance. The HotS preview was a bunch of units that for the most part were not huge game changers like the lurker, the medic and the corsair were. They were units conservatively designed as to alter the current meta game ever so slightly - enough to be somewhat worthy of an expansion, yet not enough to completely modify the game's dynamic. If what we saw at Blizzcon 2011 made it into the expansion, the difference between WoL and HotS would have been *NOTHING* compared to the difference between SC Vanilla and SCBW. Nothing. Devs are afraid or not competent enough to take risks, so we're left with a game that'll get stale really quickly, as long as they refuse to get their hands dirty. | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:15 Gheed wrote: Am I the only one who misses science vessels? I miss "Explorer reporting!" and irradiate and defensive matrix over a stupid robot with missiles that rarely do anything. Nobody ever mentions them in these threads, though. Vessles, Defilers, Arbiters and Carriers. Lategame in BW is really fun to watch. i have reached a point in SC2 where watching lategame TvP is worse than watching a random 2 base all in from either side. Most of Lategame in SC2 is huge stalemates which can be dragged on forever I really wish blizzard would get over "Well if you like BW watch that" and try to import parts of BW which worked really well. I dont get their idea behind trying to develop the wheel once again, just take parts of BW which made the game so epic to watch and port it over to a degree in SC2 | ||
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broke
39 Posts
On top of this, their reveal of HotS units is really depressing. Removing the carrier? wat. Viper basically hard countering colossus? If this trend continues, maybe the third game should be called StarCraft II: War of Rock, Paper, and Scissors.  | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:50 Sigrun wrote: I think a major reason Starcraft 2 has become so boring for me is the way the spells work. In Brood War, seeing someone cast a good plague, dark swarm, or psi storm was so epic, yet watching the opposing player manage to maneuver and win despite that was even more amazing. In Starcraft 2, these spells have been replaced by spells that are designed to limit the opponent's ability to do anything outright. Fungals that stop an entire group of units from moving, force fields that deny movement and reinforcements down a ramp, and concussive shells that early game pretty much means guaranteed death for any unit hit by it are just so boring to watch because there is literally no different outcome to the situation. You can't micro a group of units stuck in a fungal and escape. You can't move units trapped between force fields or even break them without a massive unit. You can't escape from a group of Marines and Marauders after being hit by a slow grenade without blink. The spells eliminate potential intense micro situations that would make the game more fun and possibly even more exciting for viewers. Agree. There were spells in BW like Stasis Field etc that removed mobility, but they were few and required a lot of tech to reach. In SC2, spells like Forcefield are readily available at Cybernetics Core, and are used throughout the game, and the game would be broken in its current state without it. Ditto for Fungal, Vortex (rare/high tech), Conc. Shells (although this is less of an issue, because that becomes pretty insignificant in mid-lategame). There should be more spells that encourage mobility and allow your opponent to do something about it or escape it (eg Psi-storm, Baneling landmines, Seeker Missile, Stim). | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:50 Sigrun wrote: I think a major reason Starcraft 2 has become so boring for me is the way the spells work. In Brood War, seeing someone cast a good plague, dark swarm, or psi storm was so epic, yet watching the opposing player manage to maneuver and win despite that was even more amazing. In Starcraft 2, these spells have been replaced by spells that are designed to limit the opponent's ability to do anything outright. Fungals that stop an entire group of units from moving, force fields that deny movement and reinforcements down a ramp, and concussive shells that early game pretty much means guaranteed death for any unit hit by it are just so boring to watch because there is literally no different outcome to the situation. You can't micro a group of units stuck in a fungal and escape. You can't move units trapped between force fields or even break them without a massive unit. You can't escape from a group of Marines and Marauders after being hit by a slow grenade without blink. The spells eliminate potential intense micro situations that would make the game more fun and possibly even more exciting for viewers. I couldn't agree more, but you forgot to mention that there's basically no such thing as 'good storms' or 'good EMPs' in Starcraft 2, thanks to the horrible smartcast feature. 'Jangbi storms'? More like 'every single pro player can do this easily' storms. I'm okay with unlimited unit selection and MBS...but why smartcast, and why automine? Forget the stupid 'macro mechanics', remembering to tell your workers to work even mid-combat is an important macro mechanic that separates the pros from the rest. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
Too bad really, the potential was there, but they have a very distinct vision of what they think SC2 should be. | ||
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