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It's borderline fucking impossible if you don't completely fuck them in the early game. If you open a bit riskily and tech quickly, then you get fucked by a dumb one-base 3gate immortal bust. If you spam rax after your CC and try to play safe, and they know how to use force fields above gold level, then you're behind on tech and upgrades...
The only P I've won against in the last month have been horribly bad. Any P that has any idea what they're doing just roflstomps me.
This matchup is so fucking frustrating. Drops? Oh...cannon and HT feedback. So much for that. God forbid Blizzard decided to make P a race that has to fucking micro in SC2 again. Oh wait...no...in BW they at least had dumb Dragoons and Shuttle/Reavers. Great job, Blizz. You made them even worse.
And what is it with the 3 gate robo one-base all-ins?? I have no idea how to hold that. It's a BO loss against 1 rax CC, and with decent FFs, it'll fuck even a 3 rax opening...
;lahslhta;;hwohohowh;ahsjhagjast
/rant.
 
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Maybe don't play so greedy or get some ghosts.
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I don't know...I just don't know...
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If the Protoss is fast enough to Feedback your medivac before the units drops out then I would say that's pretty good micro.
You could try having a more positive mindset about the game, it might help.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
You are not going to progress anywhere if you look at things with that attitude, or hold so much rage towards one of the races in the game.
Remember that the vast vast majority of zerg and protoss players at the lower leagues (sub masters) think exactly the same way, but well, that is the reason they are still bad at the game.
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Why not switch to the "OPIMBA" race so u can fight on even ground?
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Why don't you play protoss and find out?
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Stop complaining. How do pros do it?
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I agree, switch to Toss and see how "easy" it is.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
Bomber and Puma have a 77 and 76% win rate against protoss respectively, why dont you go and watch a few hundred of their TvP games and see how they beat each individual strategy?
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mass marauder/ghost
or 1/1/1
hehehe
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Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes
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switch races to terran and play vs protoss - you'll get a better idea of the match up then
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On February 11 2012 09:09 justjuice wrote:
Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes
/thread
User was temp banned for this post.
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I think Terran should start thinking about mid game play and try to stop Protoss from reaching end game compositions. It's a well known fact maxed protoss army is stronger than terran because of archon/chargelot backed up by AOE. The solution in this kind of matchup in BW was to disrupt the other race from teching and ending the game before allowing them to reach the death composition.
In the case of TvP in SC2, as a protoss player I can tell you, in the mid game protoss is incredibly vulnerable to drops and tech sniping, or snipe some gateways then do a timing. Basically protoss lategame is based around reaching HT/mass upgrade tech and the amount of gateways you have to ensure instant reinforcements. You need to strike before that happens, and stop protoss from getting key tech.
Protoss will most likely try to turtle on 3 bases while teching and protecting themselves from drops, because 4 base will stretch him too thin. Another decent approach is, then, constantly denying the third. MMM is appropriate for both types of strategies.
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On February 11 2012 09:02 Artline wrote:
Stop complaining. How do pros do it?
This,
On February 11 2012 08:58 Mothra wrote:
Why don't you play protoss and find out?
and this.
I mean you've obviously tilting hard at the moment so you everything's going over your head, but if you are completely serious, then look no further^
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Clearly the matchup is reasonable at levels above me. I'm not pro. I'm allowing myself to rant after losing the last eight of ten TvPs I've gotten.
On February 11 2012 09:09 justjuice wrote:
Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes
That's a pretty good way to put it. -_-
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On February 11 2012 09:19 mordk wrote:
I think Terran should start thinking about mid game play and try to stop Protoss from reaching end game compositions. It's a well known fact maxed protoss army is stronger than terran because of archon/chargelot backed up by AOE. The solution in this kind of matchup in BW was to disrupt the other race from teching and ending the game before allowing them to reach the death composition.
In the case of TvP in SC2, as a protoss player I can tell you, in the mid game protoss is incredibly vulnerable to drops and tech sniping, or snipe some gateways then do a timing. Basically protoss lategame is based around reaching HT/mass upgrade tech and the amount of gateways you have to ensure instant reinforcements. You need to strike before that happens, and stop protoss from getting key tech.
Protoss will most likely try to turtle on 3 bases while teching and protecting themselves from drops, because 4 base will stretch him too thin. Another decent approach is, then, constantly denying the third. MMM is appropriate for both types of strategies.
Thanks. That actually helped quite a bit.
I'm having a hard time taking advantage of early mid-game timings. More than half the games I've played lately have been one-base all-ins, so I've been playing cautiously.
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On February 11 2012 09:09 justjuice wrote:
Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes
So I guess that's + Show Spoiler +one part of BW Blizzard didn't change in SC2 
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I was just about to post this blog, honestly, I go to blog section, and you're here.
Thank you.
Protoss is gay as hell and they take absolutely no skill to play. In TvP, Terran wins only if Protoss sucks. If Protoss and Terran are equal in skill, Protoss will always win. I don't understand why Protoss can use force fields, delay the 10-15 minute timing you're suppose to hit, and then they get their third BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DENY IT and then late game, it's just gay.
As such, this post is related to the opening post and it does relate. Even though it is a balance whine (not really, it's the truth) it's just stupid.
Protoss in PvT is so unbelievably easy, there's a reason why it was my best matchup when I use to play Protoss back at diamond. It's because I didn't even need APM, all I needed to do was survive with force fields, and spam make colossus/archon/zealot and then a-move. You don't even need 3/3 to win as Protoss, as 0/0 Protoss is just about the same as 2/2 Terran. I quit Protoss because it was too easy to win, and too boring to play.
I have no idea why Protoss don't get bored of doing the exact same thing every matchup and winning all of them.
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Try to play protoss and you'll find out that the early-mid game is as tipped in favor of terran as the late game is tipped in favor of protoss. If you 1 rax gasless expand and the protoss goes for some kind of 1 gate expand, there will be timings where you can attack with a mass of marines, marines and mauradres, stim timings, and medivac timings where you can make them have a really hard time trying to deal with everything you've got. Try to drop their main while attacking the front of their base. If you do transition to late game its very important to stay on top of upgrades, you'll get roflstomped if you don't. Always get ghosts in the late game too.
Edit: Also, bunkers are really good. Take a really greedy 3rd CC i.e. right when your 2nd CC is done and compensate for it with bunkers. FYI I am a terran player and I do believe late game TvP is imbalanced for Protoss, I have to admit that early to late game is tipped in favor of Terran.
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a terran complaining about one base protosses. makes me smile. maybe you should call 9-1-1-1.
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I've been seeing a buttload of 3 gate robo openings. This is particularly confusing to me as I know that this opening can lead directly to an expansion, but can also be an all-in. 9/10 times I see this, it ends up being an all-in with like two-three immortals. Then the gasless expand ends up being kind of null.
Unless I go older demuslim/forgg style and spam out like four or five rax as soon as I put my CC down, you just immediately die. Even if you don't immediately die, there's a good chance you will once he reinforces with a couple rounds with that pylon just outside your nat.
It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm not being as extreme as the cyclone guy. I do think the game is imbalanced, but I don't think it's that extreme. In any case, I know the game can't be imbalanced at my level. You can still significantly outplay opponents at any level of play outside of the pro level.
The bottom line is...I fucking hate TvP.
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On February 11 2012 09:43 dAPhREAk wrote:
a terran complaining about one base protosses. makes me smile. maybe you should call 9-1-1-1.
Choked on my water after that one
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On February 11 2012 09:35 Cyclone999 wrote:
I was just about to post this blog, honestly, I go to blog section, and you're here.
Thank you.
Protoss is gay as hell and they take absolutely no skill to play. In TvP, Terran wins only if Protoss sucks. If Protoss and Terran are equal in skill, Protoss will always win. I don't understand why Protoss can use force fields, delay the 10-15 minute timing you're suppose to hit, and then they get their third BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DENY IT and then late game, it's just gay.
As such, this post is related to the opening post and it does relate. Even though it is a balance whine (not really, it's the truth) it's just stupid.
Protoss in PvT is so unbelievably easy, there's a reason why it was my best matchup when I use to play Protoss back at diamond. It's because I didn't even need APM, all I needed to do was survive with force fields, and spam make colossus/archon/zealot and then a-move. You don't even need 3/3 to win as Protoss, as 0/0 Protoss is just about the same as 2/2 Terran. I quit Protoss because it was too easy to win, and too boring to play.
I have no idea why Protoss don't get bored of doing the exact same thing every matchup and winning all of them.
Thanks for the laugh.
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On February 11 2012 09:43 dAPhREAk wrote:
a terran complaining about one base protosses. makes me smile. maybe you should call 9-1-1-1.
gg wp
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On February 11 2012 09:43 dAPhREAk wrote:
a terran complaining about one base protosses. makes me smile. maybe you should call 9-1-1-1.
LOL genius
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
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United States24604 Posts
By the time you have over 5000 posts on TL (or better yet, by the time you are born) don't you have a mental filter that will realize this OP is probably being ridiculous?
I'm all for a crazy rant... but it's still surprises me how far people take it without showing signs of recognizing how ridiculous they are being.
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Sorry bro, I'm a shameless Protoss, but PvT is pretty easy I must admit.
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dude you have to chill out man, obviously its not nearly as bad as you think it it, just look at the pro statistics, now obviously you're not the same as lets say PuMa or MMA, but clearly there are things you can do that can improve your performance in the matchup. If you see they havent expanded and you're expansion is done already, you know they probably going to try to put on some hurt, so you prepare with bunkers (they're still pretty much free if they dont get killed). Plus clearly you're raging (not to be a bad thing) so you're thoughts are all bugged up, just take a break, and then think about things after you've calmed down. Also you should be able to start dropping WAY before HT tech is in play, if you see they are getting that fast of high templars, just go fucking kill him.
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This may be slightly hard to process for some of you but bear with me.
What if small times Terran have a hard time with Protoss since their race stopped being OP? Just get used to playing on the same level as everyone else and it'll be fine.
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I refuse to 1-1-1. Even if it's been more or less figured out, it's just so...dirty...
I also hate anything that immediately loses you the game if you mess up once.
On February 11 2012 09:54 micronesia wrote:
By the time you have over 5000 posts on TL (or better yet, by the time you are born) don't you have a mental filter that will realize this OP is probably being ridiculous?
I'm all for a crazy rant... but it's still surprises me how far people take it without showing signs of recognizing how ridiculous they are being.
I haven't made any balance whines in any of my posts. I've only talked about how frustrating and difficult the matchup is for me and me only. Everything I've said is purely from my own perspective.
I'm on a huge losing streak, and even after watching hours of Terran streams, I can't seem to get a handle on what to do. Sure, I'm being ridiculous, but this is a blog, not a post in general. I've been here long enough to know that this kind of a shit fit will draw negative attention, but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was.
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I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters.
Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors"
-.-
Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC.
Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
I've been seeing a buttload of 3 gate robo openings. This is particularly confusing to me as I know that this opening can lead directly to an expansion, but can also be an all-in. 9/10 times I see this, it ends up being an all-in with like two-three immortals. Then the gasless expand ends up being kind of null.
Noooo it cant. If he doesnt go 15 nex, 1 gate expand, or maybe at the latest 2gate robo and expand while his first robo unit (observer) is building, then he is completely all in and will get rolled over by your economy unless he does significant damage to you.
Gasless expand is the best way to hold such an all in - you have to commit to an opening relatively blind, and if he handles the game correctly he can come out ahead vs 2rax or any one base opening (aside from 3-1-1 which is complicated), but gasless expand vs immortal bust at the highest level of play will favor the terran. It is not possible to break a terran who plays perfectly with gasless expand using an immortal bust, otherwise the opening would simply not be used. You are doing something wrong.
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On February 11 2012 10:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + I've been seeing a buttload of 3 gate robo openings. This is particularly confusing to me as I know that this opening can lead directly to an expansion, but can also be an all-in. 9/10 times I see this, it ends up being an all-in with like two-three immortals. Then the gasless expand ends up being kind of null. Noooo it cant. If he doesnt go 15 nex, 1 gate expand, or maybe at the latest 2gate robo and expand while his first robo unit (observer) is building, then he is completely all in and will get rolled over by your economy unless he does significant damage to you. Gasless expand is the best way to hold such an all in - you have to do it relatively blind, and if he handles the game correctly he can come out ahead vs 2rax or any one base opening, but gasless expand vs immortal bust at the highest level of play will favor the terran. It is not possible to break a terran who plays perfectly with gasless expand using an immortal bust, otherwise the opening would simply not be used. You are doing something wrong.
Yea, 3 gate robo is pretty much a terribly slow expand if not used right away in an all in by 9:30 latest.
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On February 11 2012 10:05 Optometrist wrote:
dude you have to chill out man, obviously its not nearly as bad as you think it it, just look at the pro statistics, now obviously you're not the same as lets say PuMa or MMA, but clearly there are things you can do that can improve your performance in the matchup. If you see they havent expanded and you're expansion is done already, you know they probably going to try to put on some hurt, so you prepare with bunkers (they're still pretty much free if they dont get killed). Plus clearly you're raging (not to be a bad thing) so you're thoughts are all bugged up, just take a break, and then think about things after you've calmed down. Also you should be able to start dropping WAY before HT tech is in play, if you see they are getting that fast of high templars, just go fucking kill him.
YES YES YES!!
This is exactly the mindset needed for improvement, if you get stuck on calling things OP/eZ it creates a mental block to your improvement--making yourself a helpless victim is most definitely the way you to go if you want to get stuck in an infinite loop of rage, disappointment, and frustration. There is nothing wrong with having opinions on balance or difficulty in the game, but if you let that get in the way of you improving, if you let that mentality plague you, this game won't be fun.
Try to put emphasis on improving yourself, rather then analyzing if your opponent had an easier time then you, if he really "deserved" the win, or if the game in is imbalanced; you can always have fun in the process of self improvement, because in Starcraft the self improvement never stops.
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LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up...
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On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up...
Look, it's a Protoss player!
goo goo gah gah?
I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way.
Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things...
Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC.
User was warned for this post
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On February 11 2012 10:14 PH wrote:
I refuse to 1-1-1. Even if it's been more or less figured out, it's just so...dirty...
I also hate anything that immediately loses you the game if you mess up once.
Both players always mess up in many ways throughout the game, the lower the skill the more errors. So there aren't really standard builds that qualify as "mess up once you auto lose" at lower levels, because the opponent will continue to make mistakes. 1-1-1 is a viable build, or two rax pressure expand is also nice for meeting early aggression with aggression of your own, and also punishing greedy builds.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:18 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters. Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors" -.- Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC. You're welcome.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SdGrv.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J6qFK.png)
If terran had not been dominating so hard throughout the end of last year (GomTvTvTvT) your tears might have got sympathy from someone.
The game is hard? Good. You have room to improve. Crying over it for 2 years isnt going to make you win any more, go improve.
I would also like to add that the game below masters is quite frankly a joke and if you think balance has a major effect on your overall ranking before low to mid masters then you are flat out wrong.
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On February 11 2012 10:21 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + I've been seeing a buttload of 3 gate robo openings. This is particularly confusing to me as I know that this opening can lead directly to an expansion, but can also be an all-in. 9/10 times I see this, it ends up being an all-in with like two-three immortals. Then the gasless expand ends up being kind of null. Noooo it cant. If he doesnt go 15 nex, 1 gate expand, or maybe at the latest 2gate robo and expand while his first robo unit (observer) is building, then he is completely all in and will get rolled over by your economy unless he does significant damage to you. Gasless expand is the best way to hold such an all in - you have to commit to an opening relatively blind, and if he handles the game correctly he can come out ahead vs 2rax or any one base opening (aside from 3-1-1 which is complicated), but gasless expand vs immortal bust at the highest level of play will favor the terran. It is not possible to break a terran who plays perfectly with gasless expand using an immortal bust, otherwise the opening would simply not be used. You are doing something wrong.
That's interesting. How would a solid T hold an Immortal bust? I've been dropping 3-4 rax and one gas as soon as I drop my nat CC, and adding 2-4 bunkers as I have time before he comes in.
I understand that if I hold it, I immediately win, but I just have yet to hold one with a gasless expand.
On February 11 2012 10:23 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:05 Optometrist wrote:
dude you have to chill out man, obviously its not nearly as bad as you think it it, just look at the pro statistics, now obviously you're not the same as lets say PuMa or MMA, but clearly there are things you can do that can improve your performance in the matchup. If you see they havent expanded and you're expansion is done already, you know they probably going to try to put on some hurt, so you prepare with bunkers (they're still pretty much free if they dont get killed). Plus clearly you're raging (not to be a bad thing) so you're thoughts are all bugged up, just take a break, and then think about things after you've calmed down. Also you should be able to start dropping WAY before HT tech is in play, if you see they are getting that fast of high templars, just go fucking kill him.
YES YES YES!! This is exactly the mindset needed for improvement, if you get stuck on calling things OP/eZ it creates a mental block to your improvement--making yourself a helpless victim is most definitely the way you to go if you want to get stuck in an infinite loop of rage, disappointment, and frustration. There is nothing wrong with having opinions on balance or difficulty in the game, but if you let that get in the way of you improving, if you let that mentality plague you, this game won't be fun. Try to put emphasis on improving yourself, rather then analyzing if your opponent had an easier time then you, if he really "deserved" the win, or if the game in is imbalanced; you can always have fun in the process of self improvement, because in Starcraft the self improvement never stops.
Yeah. I know. I'm just raging. Losing three TvPs in a row after being on a bad losing streak in the matchup for weeks is enough to cause nasty thoughts to manifest.
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On February 11 2012 10:30 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:18 Cyclone999 wrote:
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters. Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors" -.- Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC.
Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome. If terran had not been dominating so hard throughout the end of last year (GomTvTvTvT) your tears might have got sympathy from someone.
LIKE I SAID, being MVP is so much harder than being MC. You can't expect us to drop everywhere, have perfect micro, dodge storms, hit perfect EMPs. MC just needs to hit some force fields, throw some storms before getting EMP, and a-move his colossus/zealot/archons (micro-wise, not macro-wise) when Terran kites WHILE macroing WHILE microing.
@PH, above me
You are my hero for making this post.
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I'm a master random player and I feel like TvP is much easier to win than PvT. Maybe you are just bad at the matchup?
I play super aggressive early to mid game, 90% of games the protoss isn't even able to get HT's before the game ends. Oh, and I've never made a ghost in my life. MMM is fucking amazing with decent control.
My2c.
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On February 11 2012 10:36 liberal wrote:
I'm a master random player and I feel like TvP is much easier to win than PvT. Maybe you are just bad at the matchup?
I play super aggressive early to mid game, 90% of games the protoss isn't even able to get HT's before the game ends. Oh, and I've never made a ghost in my life. MMM is fucking amazing with decent control.
My2c.
Coaching please.
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Been playing around with 15CC, 15 Rax, 17 gas in TvP recently. A bunker with some marines holds off any early pressure and you can move the CC down into your nat safely after you get 2 tanks with siege. Need to play with it a lot more, but it seems like strong opener so far.
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On February 11 2012 10:33 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:30 Cyro wrote:On February 11 2012 10:18 Cyclone999 wrote:
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters. Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors" -.- Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC.
Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome. If terran had not been dominating so hard throughout the end of last year (GomTvTvTvT) your tears might have got sympathy from someone. LIKE I SAID, being MVP is so much harder than being MC. You can't expect us to drop everywhere, have perfect micro, dodge storms, hit perfect EMPs. MC just needs to hit some force fields, throw some storms before getting EMP, and a-move his colossus/zealot/archons when Terran kites WHILE macroing WHILE microing. @PH, above me You are my hero for making this post.
If it was that easy why don't you got be a Code S Protoss, and win two GSLs?
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+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KANukZsWD9Q
1:02
More manner, more skill!
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If it was that easy why don't you got be a Code S Protoss, and win two GSLs?
I'm sorry if I worded it wrong, perhaps I was too angry, but that's not all you had to do. My bad, edited.
Micro-wise however, add in some feedbacks and I think I hit the spot.
Let's not forget Protoss is the most forgiving in out of position, and engaging Protoss in a concave makes no difference because storm will just make your army back into a ball again when you dodge it.
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On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC.
uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said.
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As a protoss player(diamond) i find that PvT is my strongest match up. When i smurf a league lower as terran(plat), i can keep up quite well in TvP. An early marine push is usually good against anything that isnt a 1 base play.
Against 1 base plays, throw down upwards of 4-5 bunkers. Don't be afraid to lose scvs. you have mules and 2 orbitals to make them from, while protoss only has 1 base and is pretty much all in.
Against a 2 base 7 or 8 gate all in, you will have a much harder time holding, but hopefully you'll jump up to 5-6 rax with reactors and tech labs before their push comes. again pull scvs and you should be fine with 4-5 bunkers.
tl;dr: protoss is hard to survive to late game if they dont win early or early-mid game. The late game and early game are where protoss are really strong.
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On February 11 2012 10:33 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:30 Cyro wrote:On February 11 2012 10:18 Cyclone999 wrote:
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters. Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors" -.- Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC.
Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome. If terran had not been dominating so hard throughout the end of last year (GomTvTvTvT) your tears might have got sympathy from someone. LIKE I SAID, being MVP is so much harder than being MC. You can't expect us to drop everywhere, have perfect micro, dodge storms, hit perfect EMPs. MC just needs to hit some force fields, throw some storms before getting EMP, and a-move his colossus/zealot/archons (micro-wise, not macro-wise) when Terran kites WHILE macroing WHILE microing. @PH, above me You are my hero for making this post.
I dont see the problem. Terran has dodge storms, EMP, and Kite while Protoss has to Storm, Feedback, target down Medics/vikings with Stalkers, and FF. Seems pretty even to me.
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On February 11 2012 10:47 SeizeTheDay wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC. uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said.
I know my crying is flawed. I know my gameplay is stupid. I know my play is horrible. Heck, I can't even keep less than 1k minerals when I saturate my third!
But you know what? I can't even abuse Protoss early-game where I am strongest, and nor can I engage them late-game! And anything I do, gets hard-countered by Protoss because they are the most forgiving race in Starcraft 2. And further more, although debatable, their deathball is the strongest army that requires little to no micro -_-
So easy to play.
Storm, Feedback, target down Medics/vikings with Stalkers, and FF.
TclickFclick, a-move does that for you, you don't need force fields late game because you probably won't have sentries then.
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On February 11 2012 10:44 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +
If it was that easy why don't you got be a Code S Protoss, and win two GSLs?
I'm sorry if I worded it wrong, perhaps I was too angry, but that's not all you had to do. My bad, edited. Micro-wise however, add in some feedbacks and I think I hit the spot. Let's not forget Protoss is the most forgiving in out of position, and engaging Protoss in a concave makes no difference because storm will just make your army back into a ball again when you dodge it.
You state your opinions as if they are facts...
Honestly, I feel as Protoss if I get caught out of position, and then lose my army, I lose the game, especially versus Zerg.
And the second one is just completely false, if you have concave, your units will be less vulnerable to AOE; which is the main tool that Protoss has versus mass bio.
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On February 11 2012 10:50 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:47 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC. uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said. I know my crying is flawed. I know my gameplay is stupid. I know my play is horrible. Heck, I can't even keep less than 1k minerals when I saturate my third! But you know what? I can't even abuse Protoss early-game where I am strongest, and nor can I engage them late-game! And anything I do, gets hard-countered by Protoss because they are the most forgiving race in Starcraft 2. And further more, although debatable, their deathball is the strongest army that requires little to no micro -_- So easy to play.
Then play Protoss? like i don't know what you want me to say.. this doesn't happen in Masters.. in fact terran is the beast still that Protoss has the most problems with. Zerg some times also, if we let them get that 3rd. You have to realize its not the match up its you. Right there you just said it was you, so why would you say protoss is easy to play if you are making the mistakes?
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On February 11 2012 10:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:44 Cyclone999 wrote:
If it was that easy why don't you got be a Code S Protoss, and win two GSLs?
I'm sorry if I worded it wrong, perhaps I was too angry, but that's not all you had to do. My bad, edited. Micro-wise however, add in some feedbacks and I think I hit the spot. Let's not forget Protoss is the most forgiving in out of position, and engaging Protoss in a concave makes no difference because storm will just make your army back into a ball again when you dodge it. You state your opinions as if they are facts... Honestly, I feel as Protoss if I get caught out of position, and then lose my army, I lose the game, especially versus Zerg. And the second one is just completely false, if you have concave, your units will be less vulnerable to AOE; which is the main tool that Protoss has versus mass bio.
Okay, I'm just going to calm down.
I don't want you guys to see me as a crying idiot, which is what I figure I am looking at.
If I engage at a concave, he storms, say, the entire line. I move my army back to "dodge" the storm, because dodging it would be better than sitting in the storm, correct?
The point is when I move my army back...I'm a ball again. And as we know, Terran ball = zealot butchered meat
Right there you just said it was you, so why would you say protoss is easy to play if you are making the mistakes?
Me and Protoss are suppose to be at the same level, according to MMR. Protoss can make way more mistakes than me (out of position for drops, 4-gating a 1rax FE) but in the end, they will still win because they will almost always have the superior army, late-game.
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On February 11 2012 10:50 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:47 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC. uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said. I know my crying is flawed. I know my gameplay is stupid. I know my play is horrible. Heck, I can't even keep less than 1k minerals when I saturate my third! But you know what? I can't even abuse Protoss early-game where I am strongest, and nor can I engage them late-game! And anything I do, gets hard-countered by Protoss because they are the most forgiving race in Starcraft 2. And further more, although debatable, their deathball is the strongest army that requires little to no micro -_- So easy to play. TclickFclick, a-move does that for you, you don't need force fields late game because you probably won't have sentries then.
With an attitude like that, it will continue to happen.
Bitching and crying will gain you nothing.
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On February 11 2012 10:50 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:47 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC. uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said. I know my crying is flawed. I know my gameplay is stupid. I know my play is horrible. Heck, I can't even keep less than 1k minerals when I saturate my third! But you know what? I can't even abuse Protoss early-game where I am strongest, and nor can I engage them late-game! And anything I do, gets hard-countered by Protoss because they are the most forgiving race in Starcraft 2. And further more, although debatable, their deathball is the strongest army that requires little to no micro -_-So easy to play. TclickFclick, a-move does that for you, you don't need force fields late game because you probably won't have sentries then.
quit crying and practice harder. qqing about how easy it is to play the other race never helped anyone get better. Jesus. Why do you think you're so entitled to a win?
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TclickFclick, a-move does that for you, you don't need force fields late game because you probably won't have sentries then.
Oh I didnt realize we were playing the ridiculous over-simplification game. I suppose its my turn. EMP? E click (also its undodgable). Kite? A click, right click. Dodge storm (again, a luxury we dont have in regards to EMP), just a right click.
No, I dont actually mean that because I actually play the game and know its not as easy as you can make it sound when writing out instructions in text. I just want you to see how silly you seem.
Edit: g2g 4 gate people on ladder
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On February 11 2012 09:35 Cyclone999 wrote:
I was just about to post this blog, honestly, I go to blog section, and you're here.
Thank you.
Protoss is gay as hell and they take absolutely no skill to play. In TvP, Terran wins only if Protoss sucks. If Protoss and Terran are equal in skill, Protoss will always win. I don't understand why Protoss can use force fields, delay the 10-15 minute timing you're suppose to hit, and then they get their third BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DENY IT and then late game, it's just gay.
As such, this post is related to the opening post and it does relate. Even though it is a balance whine (not really, it's the truth) it's just stupid.
Protoss in PvT is so unbelievably easy, there's a reason why it was my best matchup when I use to play Protoss back at diamond. It's because I didn't even need APM, all I needed to do was survive with force fields, and spam make colossus/archon/zealot and then a-move. You don't even need 3/3 to win as Protoss, as 0/0 Protoss is just about the same as 2/2 Terran. I quit Protoss because it was too easy to win, and too boring to play.
I have no idea why Protoss don't get bored of doing the exact same thing every matchup and winning all of them.
That's why TvP's win rate is in T's favour?
Come on, that BS about "I quit Protoss 'cause it was too easy." crap doesn't fly unless you hit #1 GM. 0/0 Protoss is the same as 2/2 Terran? You mean, 0/0 T3 compositions prevent you from spamming MMM and stimming to win? Yeah, pretty much so.
More likely, your PvZ sucked, so MMR made PvT really easy for you.
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On February 11 2012 10:55 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:50 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:47 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 11 2012 10:28 Cyclone999 wrote:On February 11 2012 10:24 SeizeTheDay wrote:
LOL SO FUNNY that people are bitching about pvt like anything changed.. your rauders / ghosts still rape us FIRST it was ZvP now its PvT... lol soon it will be ZvZ or something RELAX its a game and maybe YOU are the problem not the match up... Look, it's a Protoss player! goo goo gah gah? I heard Protoss players were babies, hence the QQ, so I figure I'd talk to you that way. Nothing's wrong with the matchup! You know, just that Protoss players only have half the APM, and their late-game is impossible to stop, their warp-in denies drops, their force fields stops early-game things... Like stated above, being MVP is harder than being MC. uMMM seems like your the one QQ over the match up.. I dont care lol... i never once said anything when Terrans where beating the shit out of protoss.. or the fact HOW MANY TERRANS WON EVENTS. or how many terrans in GSL... whos the hope of protoss right now? MC? hasn't won much not saying he is bad... but he isnt up there anymore it seems.... Lets see whos some top terran off hand i can name alot.. name top protoss that have won as much as a terran... YOU CANT. lol take a chill pill your not at the top level ... nor am i... I am Masters you .. I dont know. My point is AT THE TOP if a terran cried like this it would make sense.. you crying about this means NOTHING because your game play is flawed... enough said. I know my crying is flawed. I know my gameplay is stupid. I know my play is horrible. Heck, I can't even keep less than 1k minerals when I saturate my third! But you know what? I can't even abuse Protoss early-game where I am strongest, and nor can I engage them late-game! And anything I do, gets hard-countered by Protoss because they are the most forgiving race in Starcraft 2. And further more, although debatable, their deathball is the strongest army that requires little to no micro -_-So easy to play. Storm, Feedback, target down Medics/vikings with Stalkers, and FF. TclickFclick, a-move does that for you, you don't need force fields late game because you probably won't have sentries then. quit crying and practice harder. qqing about how easy it is to play the other race never helped anyone get better. Jesus. Why do you think you're so entitled to a win?
KawaiiRice has laid down the law.
He's right about just practicing more 
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Everyone ignored the guy that gave the correct answer anyway. Someone even quoted him and then deleted the important part.
"the game below masters is quite frankly a joke and if you think balance has a major effect on your overall ranking before low to mid masters then you are flat out wrong."
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Even though it's not my blog it feels like I'm doing the fight.
So now I'm just going to say:
Sorry everyone for my opinions.
Sorry everyone for wasting your time commenting on my horrible less-thought out posts.
After taking a good 5 minutes of break I realize that you guys are just trying to help me and help Starcraft in general and it's idiots like me ruining it.
But honestly, Protoss is really hard to beat, and I like going on these rambles and rants.
But I wish that somebody will teach me TvP, because honestly, it feels impossible for me. Coaching plz.
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Can we please just close this blog?
It's nothing but pointless balance whine.
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On February 11 2012 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Can we please just close this blog?
It's nothing but pointless balance whine.
I'm sorry 
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On February 11 2012 10:53 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On February 11 2012 10:44 Cyclone999 wrote:
If it was that easy why don't you got be a Code S Protoss, and win two GSLs?
I'm sorry if I worded it wrong, perhaps I was too angry, but that's not all you had to do. My bad, edited. Micro-wise however, add in some feedbacks and I think I hit the spot. Let's not forget Protoss is the most forgiving in out of position, and engaging Protoss in a concave makes no difference because storm will just make your army back into a ball again when you dodge it. You state your opinions as if they are facts... Honestly, I feel as Protoss if I get caught out of position, and then lose my army, I lose the game, especially versus Zerg. And the second one is just completely false, if you have concave, your units will be less vulnerable to AOE; which is the main tool that Protoss has versus mass bio. Okay, I'm just going to calm down. I don't want you guys to see me as a crying idiot, which is what I figure I am looking at. If I engage at a concave, he storms, say, the entire line. I move my army back to "dodge" the storm, because dodging it would be better than sitting in the storm, correct? The point is when I move my army back...I'm a ball again. And as we know, Terran ball = zealot butchered meat Show nested quote +Right there you just said it was you, so why would you say protoss is easy to play if you are making the mistakes? Me and Protoss are suppose to be at the same level, according to MMR. Protoss can make way more mistakes than me (out of position for drops, 4-gating a 1rax FE) but in the end, they will still win because they will almost always have the superior army, late-game.
This is why most the time i dont reply to these type of posts.. but I feel like typing so I will. You and Protoss are on the same level.. SO he makes just as many mistakes as you are. However are you watching the replays and comparing your raxes to his gate ways? all i can say is SCOUT.. you see templar now you know u have to get ghosts.. you see colossi now you know u have to get vikings.. DROP make him lose stuff.. protoss does not have a good answer to most drops.. yes we can warp in your right.. but you can stim pick up move to another spot to drop and keep doing it. you need to watch the replays and see where and when to engages the army. You have to learn to control the tempo of the game. You need to learn just because he has storm doesnt mean anything, dropping delays that army from killing you.. making ghosts and microing them right makes them templars useless ... Everything you are complaining about has a HUGE argument to it. As i said 100 times its not the Protoss... we are powerful we know this, if we didn't have sentries you would win every game vs protoss in the first 10mins of a game. You have to understand why they are there..
If we didn't have templar you late game with your armies.. I Mean the point is they are in the game regardless if you don't like them or not. You have to learn what to do when they are there.
Also I think a lot of lower level players don't get the point of the game. The point of the game is to DELAY as long as you can EXPAND as much as you can and then overpower whatever race you are playing vs. Now when i say this.. small attacks are there just to delay so you can get that 3rd expo get more and more ahead.. so you can get the extra tech you need. The scouting is there for you to know OH HE IS GOING X... now i need to go Y... in order to stay alive vs his X. Its not so much about getting the biggest army and clashing with his biggest army. Its more of I NEED MORE EXPOS MORE MONEY TO OUT PRODUCE HIM LATER and win. You are explaining your games as if your getting 200/200 and him getting 200/200 and your just fighting and hoping for the best. It doesn't work like that because if he just has 1% better micro then you, you lose because of storm right? Watch your replays and learn what you did wrong WRITE it down and say I WONT DO THIS AGAIN... and DONT.
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CAN YOU GUYS JUST READ MY POST
So now I'm just going to say:
Sorry everyone for my opinions.
Sorry everyone for wasting your time commenting on my horrible less-thought out posts.
After taking a good 5 minutes of break I realize that you guys are just trying to help me and help Starcraft in general and it's idiots like me ruining it.
But honestly, Protoss is really hard to beat, and I like going on these rambles and rants.
But I wish that somebody will teach me TvP, because honestly, it feels impossible for me.
PLEASE IGNORE EVERY OTHER POST.
Incidently, I didn't make the blog, I merely posted my opinion and defended it (immaturely, but still)
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On February 11 2012 11:04 Cyclone999 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Even though it's not my blog it feels like I'm doing the fight.
So now I'm just going to say:
Sorry everyone for my opinions.
Sorry everyone for wasting your time commenting on my horrible less-thought out posts.
After taking a good 5 minutes of break I realize that you guys are just trying to help me and help Starcraft in general and it's idiots like me ruining it.
But honestly, Protoss is really hard to beat, and I like going on these rambles and rants.
But I wish that somebody will teach me TvP, because honestly, it feels impossible for me. Coaching plz.
This is totally off topic but I'm just curious, did you play a druid in WoW?
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This is totally off topic but I'm just curious, did you play a druid in WoW?
No I don't play WoW, too scary D:
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On February 11 2012 11:04 Cyclone999 wrote:
Even though it's not my blog it feels like I'm doing the fight.
So now I'm just going to say:
Sorry everyone for my opinions.
Sorry everyone for wasting your time commenting on my horrible less-thought out posts.
After taking a good 5 minutes of break I realize that you guys are just trying to help me and help Starcraft in general and it's idiots like me ruining it.
But honestly, Protoss is really hard to beat, and I like going on these rambles and rants.
But I wish that somebody will teach me TvP, because honestly, it feels impossible for me. Coaching plz.
On February 11 2012 11:06 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Can we please just close this blog?
It's nothing but pointless balance whine. I'm sorry
Don't feel so bad man, our emotions get the best of us sometimes, and we need vent a little, so sorry if I sounded harsh
There are various avenues in which to peruse advice and help on Teamliquid.net; you just have to look 
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On February 11 2012 11:11 Cyclone999 wrote:Show nested quote +
This is totally off topic but I'm just curious, did you play a druid in WoW?
No I don't play WoW, too scary D:
What? I cannot parse this.
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On February 11 2012 11:24 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:11 Cyclone999 wrote:
This is totally off topic but I'm just curious, did you play a druid in WoW?
No I don't play WoW, too scary D: What? I cannot parse this.
The faces on their ameboxes scary and i haz no moneys to pay for it
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On February 11 2012 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Can we please just close this blog?
It's nothing but pointless balance whine.
It would have been cool if the questions I asked later on got answered, but people are getting too caught up with arguing.
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On February 11 2012 09:28 PH wrote:Clearly the matchup is reasonable at levels above me. I'm not pro. I'm allowing myself to rant after losing the last eight of ten TvPs I've gotten. Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:09 justjuice wrote:
Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes That's a pretty good way to put it. -_-
Imagine if game designers balanced around people being terrible instead of people actually playing the game properly, I hate all these fucking whine posts. If you want a terrible game balanced around bad players instead of good players, go play league of legends.
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On February 11 2012 10:30 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 10:18 Cyclone999 wrote:
I'm not gonna insult anyone or nothing but I do think Terran would have to never win a game for like 4 months before they got their right to complain back. You know, that whole 2011 thing.
Terran QQ. We have to figure it out ourselves. Protoss QQ. Blizzard helps them. That's why every unit for Terran is utilized and Protoss doesn't need to use half of their units to win. AOE is so useful, and PvT is so easy, up to masters. Protoss QQ wasn't even justified, "lol infestors counter deathball, blizzard plz nerf infestors" -.- Sure, the numbers might favor Terran, but being MVP is much harder than being MC.
Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome. If terran had not been dominating so hard throughout the end of last year (GomTvTvTvT) your tears might have got sympathy from someone. The game is hard? Good. You have room to improve. Crying over it for 2 years isnt going to make you win any more, go improve. I would also like to add that the game below masters is quite frankly a joke and if you think balance has a major effect on your overall ranking before low to mid masters then you are flat out wrong.
He's being ridiculous, but actually the game is a lot less balanced at lower levels than at the top. The fact that PvT is such a low APM matchup makes Protoss quite easy vs Terran at low levels, since those players are handicapped by their handspeed.
I play random btw.
Oh and another thing, tournament results are kinda irrelevant if the players being discussed near the top level anyway.
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I still can't get this feeling of guilt of me being an idiot. I honestly hope that you guys will forgive me, I'm just frustrated over Protoss and how I always suck at engaging a deathball.
Honestly, I wish I was a better person than this, but apparently not.
And sorry to 604Starcraft, fb group, for putting up with my endless rambles and rants on Protoss.
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I'd be in favour of Blizzard simply removing the Terran race from the game, and focusing on Protoss and Zerg. It's more ethical to save the Terran players from killing themselves.
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but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was.
I literally cannot relate to this whatsoever. I cannot understand what causes this level of frustration at all.
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On February 11 2012 14:10 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was. I literally cannot relate to this whatsoever. I cannot understand what causes this level of frustration at all.
What race do you play?
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Ways to win TvP:
1. One or two base all-in.
2. Be offensive. Playing defensive vs warpgate attacks is suicidal because there's no defender's advantage.
3. Play MMMGV like MVP/MKP/Bomber and win by vastly outmicroing your opponent.
4. Double Ebay and try to outmacro the Protoss to 3/3.
5. Try Sky Terran.
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On February 11 2012 14:34 Netsky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:10 L_Master wrote:but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was. I literally cannot relate to this whatsoever. I cannot understand what causes this level of frustration at all. What race do you play?
I play a little of all three in BW, though I main Protoss.
Though perhaps I should rephrase; sometimes I do get frustrated (though minor), but it is always at myself for the mistakes I made in my play.
I'm just now learning some SC2 as well, and playing P due to racial loyalties. I guess for me what happens is that whenever I lose I just think "oh here's how I fucked up" or "I shouldn't have let him do that" etc. For instance if I am playing PvZ and die to a hydra bust I am annoyed at myself for not being more diligent with my scouting and making a better effort to figure out what Z was up to. Or if I am playing TvP and lose to a DT drop I am displeased with my play because I didn't place turrets properly, failed to be watching and ready to react, microed poorly, etc.
The only times I have ever been remotely on tilt are when I have a particular thing I want to practice and fail to focus. For instance, if I want to be diligent with my scouting and that is my project for that game, I can get pretty pissed at myself if I fail to be diligent in scouting and let other things distract me.
I can't, and don't, understand getting annoyed at the other player, or the other players race. There are always mistakes I made that resulted in my loss.
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If you can't win just 1/1/1 every match and troll your way up the ladder.
Toss did the same with 4Gate, and can do the same with their horrendous range of all-ins (blink stalker, 3Gate DT, 3Gate VR, Sentry-heavy 4Gate, 3Gate Immortal, delayed 4Gate Immortal...), you can have clean conscience.
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France12761 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:10 Kukaracha wrote:
If you can't win just 1/1/1 every match and troll your way up the ladder.
Toss did the same with 4Gate, and can do the same with their horrendous range of all-ins (blink stalker, 3Gate DT, 3Gate VR, Sentry-heavy 4Gate, 3Gate Immortal, delayed 4Gate Immortal...), you can have clean conscience.
You won't win with 1-1-1 against decent protoss most of the times. Just go 1 rax FE and force him to make mistaked
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On February 11 2012 16:56 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:34 Netsky wrote:On February 11 2012 14:10 L_Master wrote:but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was. I literally cannot relate to this whatsoever. I cannot understand what causes this level of frustration at all. What race do you play? I play a little of all three in BW, though I main Protoss. Though perhaps I should rephrase; sometimes I do get frustrated (though minor), but it is always at myself for the mistakes I made in my play. I'm just now learning some SC2 as well, and playing P due to racial loyalties. I guess for me what happens is that whenever I lose I just think "oh here's how I fucked up" or "I shouldn't have let him do that" etc. For instance if I am playing PvZ and die to a hydra bust I am annoyed at myself for not being more diligent with my scouting and making a better effort to figure out what Z was up to. Or if I am playing TvP and lose to a DT drop I am displeased with my play because I didn't place turrets properly, failed to be watching and ready to react, microed poorly, etc. The only times I have ever been remotely on tilt are when I have a particular thing I want to practice and fail to focus. For instance, if I want to be diligent with my scouting and that is my project for that game, I can get pretty pissed at myself if I fail to be diligent in scouting and let other things distract me. I can't, and don't, understand getting annoyed at the other player, or the other players race. There are always mistakes I made that resulted in my loss.
That's understandable, I would be much happier if I played Protoss too.
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Protoss is easier in the TvP matchup until you reach pro level. You just have to play alot better then the protoss.
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On February 11 2012 11:42 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:28 PH wrote:Clearly the matchup is reasonable at levels above me. I'm not pro. I'm allowing myself to rant after losing the last eight of ten TvPs I've gotten. On February 11 2012 09:09 justjuice wrote:
Is protoss OP? No. Is PvT ridiculously easy compared to TvP? Yes That's a pretty good way to put it. -_- Imagine if game designers balanced around people being terrible instead of people actually playing the game properly, I hate all these fucking whine posts. If you want a terrible game balanced around bad players instead of good players, go play league of legends.
I played BW more seriously than I do SC2. I fully understand how difficulties are disparate at different levels. I don't understand where you're coming from. Did you even read the first part of the post you quoted?
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Fuck toss man lol I completely feel you. It's up to the terran to be aggresive and try to finish the game earliest as possible or else you lose.
I'm a scrub and don't play these days (but here are just a few of my opinions)
1. When they scout you, fake a gas -> kill scout with marine and cancel and build CC in main (if you can't chase them away before completion -> just let it complete and don't mine from it // if they think you are going to 1/1/1 and manner gas -> say thanks
2. 1/1/1 is pretty solid but I also found that different timing of a 1/1/1 style rush to work too, FE -> 5+ tanks/marines wit stim only/3banshees/1 medivac [forgot what exact buildings I made but that's just the idea of it I'm sure you can optimize it better] the general idea is you hit at a weird timing and throw them off guard relatively early.
3. If you wanna all in, last time I played I tried Thor cheese and it worked with the current style of 3 gate+robo, hits early and if you have superior micro you should be able to take it
4. Another solid cheese -> marines are pretty OP early game IMHO, make your wall -> add raxes I think it was 4 total rax [not sure] close to the edge of your main -> lift and go to lower ground for shorter distances and just move out with scvs+marines [make sure you have money for bunkers]
5. CC in base -> add raxes -> up +1/stim fast and shells while moving out - while u float your CC to your nat -> 1 rauder for 4 marines [micro wars!] or just forget the +1 attack and just go with fast stim and shells while moving out
6. Not really a strat but worth mentioning -> fool the toss thinking u going 1/1/1 and build a secret expo and planetary it up and while getting 1-2 tanks + 1 medivac + marines only -> they will catch u [especially after u not moving out] and they have to decide if they want to:
a) try to deny your planetary -> let them take it and drop his main [timing is crucial]
b) try to kill your main -> just hold with everything you got [your tanks on high ground should help], if you do succeed your mid game is hugely advantageous
c) they take their own base -> in that case just take another expo
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France12761 Posts
@To the OP : if you can accept this : ![[image loading]](http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/841/howtowintvp.png)
(ie : that you need twice the apm in order to beat upgraded zealot / archons / ht / stalkers) you will be able to play calmly and beat these evil protoss !
Just play calmly a game as clean as possible and you'll find a way to win consistently in TvP.
Don't overcommit, pay attention to his composition, macro properly (you are moving out to apply pressure / secure your third? don't forget to power up raxes at this moment they will be ready when you'll mule your third), and try to engage as cleanly and properly as possible, be sure to have a factory / scan ahead before engaging, have mmmball / ghosts / vikings in separate groups.
And more importantly don't let your anger control you :
![[image loading]](http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3122/tlowiseman.png)
It's TLO if you didn't know, and this advice is valuable in every match-up for every race =D
edit : oh and think positively, if you win don't think that you won because your opponent played terribly bad, think that you won because YOU played good enough to beat him (and if you think that you have to play 5 times better or whatever enjoy the fact that you seemingly played that better), if you lose because of a stupid mistake after a very good play, don't think that his race or whatever can make more mistakes, just take this as an experience, you won't make that mistake again therefore you have improved.
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On February 11 2012 18:34 Netsky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 16:56 L_Master wrote:On February 11 2012 14:34 Netsky wrote:On February 11 2012 14:10 L_Master wrote:but when I was posting it, I literally immediately went from one monitor to the other and posted this. That's how on tilt I was. I literally cannot relate to this whatsoever. I cannot understand what causes this level of frustration at all. What race do you play? I play a little of all three in BW, though I main Protoss. Though perhaps I should rephrase; sometimes I do get frustrated (though minor), but it is always at myself for the mistakes I made in my play. I'm just now learning some SC2 as well, and playing P due to racial loyalties. I guess for me what happens is that whenever I lose I just think "oh here's how I fucked up" or "I shouldn't have let him do that" etc. For instance if I am playing PvZ and die to a hydra bust I am annoyed at myself for not being more diligent with my scouting and making a better effort to figure out what Z was up to. Or if I am playing TvP and lose to a DT drop I am displeased with my play because I didn't place turrets properly, failed to be watching and ready to react, microed poorly, etc. The only times I have ever been remotely on tilt are when I have a particular thing I want to practice and fail to focus. For instance, if I want to be diligent with my scouting and that is my project for that game, I can get pretty pissed at myself if I fail to be diligent in scouting and let other things distract me. I can't, and don't, understand getting annoyed at the other player, or the other players race. There are always mistakes I made that resulted in my loss. That's understandable, I would be much happier if I played Protoss too.
I think you missed the overall point.
I also think you missed the part where I said I play a fair amount of BW TvP.
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EPT
