EPTif there is anyone who can teach me to beat ling muta or even just to all in a zerg then please help.
my tag is solid.679 and i have skype but my mic is at home...i am currently staying in my dorm. but ill have that soon enough.
zerg.........
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
if there is anyone who can teach me to beat ling muta or even just to all in a zerg then please help. my tag is solid.679 and i have skype but my mic is at home...i am currently staying in my dorm. but ill have that soon enough. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
I'm a 100% sure this is a lie, so didnt bother reading the rest (of the 1 paragraph blog, lol) | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:18 Loanshark wrote: strat forum? maybe but I feel it was more of a rant. if it should be there then please have an admin move it | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:19 Geo.Rion wrote: " have not beaten a zerg in almost 2 weeks now and beating everything that is not zerg" I'm a 100% sure this is a lie, so didnt bother reading the rest (of the 1 paragraph blog, lol) 100% sure its a lie? im a diamond toss playing plat toss and terran because I cannot beat zerg, i always beat toss and terran because i never play them at the diamond level i only hit diamond zergs who kill me then its back to playing plat players then killing them then hitting zerg again and it is just a cycle. | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:21 Selendis wrote: sounds like you are being outmacroed. you might want to consider learning how to 7gate and do that each game. it's a cheap and easy way to get wins back. I wanna beat them with macro its not getting out macroed i just cannot deal with muta ling which is 80% of the zergs i play. but i will try 7 gating, thats with a FFE right? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:24 leadphyc wrote: 100% sure its a lie? im a diamond toss playing plat toss and terran because I cannot beat zerg, i always beat toss and terran because i never play them at the diamond level i only hit diamond zergs who kill me then its back to playing plat players then killing them then hitting zerg again and it is just a cycle. sure you do, everyone on tl.net plays one league higher opponent all the time. go back to your match list, check the last 30 games, if there isnt a loss to T/P or a win to Zerg i'll wire you 1k dollar, okey? | ||
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Bd.Snake
Australia163 Posts
You already have the resources to get better i don't get why you don't use them and just make a stupid thread like this in the time you have made this thread and refreshed waiting for your answer you could of actually done something yourself User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:27 Geo.Rion wrote: sure you do, everyone on tl.net plays one league higher opponent all the time. go back to your match list, check the last 30 games, if there isnt a loss to T/P or a win to Zerg i'll wire you 1k dollar, okey? okay......this isn't the point of the post........and the last 30 games 20 were zerg and 10 were toss and terran. the point is I cannot beat zerg. they are an unsolvable mystery to me | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:29 Bd.Snake wrote: Go watch some pvz from the gsl and stop being a whiny retard You already have the resources to get better i don't get why you don't use them and just make a stupid thread like this in the time you have made this thread and refreshed waiting for your answer you could of actually done something yourself ok people on here are getting out of hand...you think I have not done that? I am not stupid. I have been doing that. I have watched countless muta ling replay's and i just cannot get there alone. do you have to be mean about it, dont you have something better with your time to do? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:30 leadphyc wrote: okay......this isn't the point of the post........and the last 30 games 20 were zerg and 10 were toss and terran. the point is I cannot beat zerg. they are an unsolvable mystery to me ok, quick guide: Forge fast exp 6-7 gate + twilight or robo walk out to pressure, take third make lots of stalkers and some colo, make canons take 4th, start teching to Mothership and archons If he kills your MS+stalker+colo-archon army (which he wont) means he had liek 20 BLs anf indfestors, so have 3-4 stargate ready and chrono the shit out of voidrays to win the game My ZERG teammate does this to me with Protoss and i lose like 50% of the times (i can beat him in ZVZ, though he's better). The last game we played i lost with having 19k points mroe then he did, so yeah, poor protoss, cant beat zerg | ||
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PolskaGora
United States547 Posts
I'm assuming you know how to FFE. If not, that's probably why you're losing all your PvZ's. A huge thing I realized with the FFE when I was watching Kiwikaki's stream is that you should spend almost all of your chrono on probes. Then, with the huge and disproportionate min:gas ratio you use the extra minerals to put cannons everywhere, about 4 around each base's mineral line. This prevents any super early muta pressure, you can add on more cannons if you see the zerg being extra aggressive, and you can safely transition into twilight tech from there. This extra cannon support also allows you to take a third easily. Don't forget to make at least 5 sentries as well, they're essential to stop ling surrounds and/or sudden roach tech switches. Keep +1 attack upgrade ahead for your zealots using chrono to deal with lings while getting your third up as well. Also make sure you have your Z favored, or your weakest PvZ, maps vetoed (for me that means Xel'naga, Metalopolis, and Shattered since it's hard for me to FFE on those maps but you can veto anything that is unfavorable to your playstyle). | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:33 Geo.Rion wrote: ok, quick guide: Forge fast exp 6-7 gate + twilight or robo walk out to pressure, take third make lots of stalkers and some colo, make canons take 4th, start teching to Mothership and archons If he kills your MS+stalker+colo-archon army (which he wont) means he had liek 20 BLs anf indfestors, so have 3-4 stargate ready and chrono the shit out of voidrays to win the game My ZERG teammate does this to me with Protoss and i lose like 50% of the times (i can beat him in ZVZ, though he's better). The last game we played i lost with having 19k points mroe then he did, so yeah, poor protoss, cant beat zerg thank you  thats what I need | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:34 PolskaGora wrote: I am also around your level, (high plat consistently playing low-mid diamond) and I consider PvZ my best match up, I have at least an 80% win rate atm. I'm assuming you know how to FFE. If not, that's probably why you're losing all your PvZ's. A huge thing I realized with the FFE when I was watching Kiwikaki's stream is that you should spend almost all of your chrono on probes. Then, with the huge and disproportionate min:gas ratio you use the extra minerals to put cannons everywhere, about 4 around each base's mineral line. This prevents any super early muta pressure, you can add on more cannons if you see the zerg being extra aggressive, and you can safely transition into twilight tech from there. This extra cannon support also allows you to take a third easily. Don't forget to make at least 5 sentries as well, they're essential to stop ling surrounds and/or sudden roach tech switches. Keep +1 attack upgrade ahead for your zealots using chrono to deal with lings while getting your third up as well. Also make sure you have your Z favored, or your weakest PvZ, maps vetoed (for me that means Xel'naga, Metalopolis, and Shattered since it's hard for me to FFE on those maps but you can veto anything that is unfavorable to your playstyle). that's pretty helpful thank you. maybe something will take with me here. | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:25 leadphyc wrote: I wanna beat them with macro its not getting out macroed i just cannot deal with muta ling which is 80% of the zergs i play. but i will try 7 gating, thats with a FFE right? Well if you really want to win games against zerg with a macro game then try this: 1. Expand with your preferred expansion method. 2. Chrono as many probes as you can whilst having just enough sentries to hold off any early aggression 3. Get hallucination to use those sentries who are now high on energy to see what the zerg is up to. 4. React to what you see. If he has got a third, get more gateway units and a third, If he's massing roaches off two base then get a robo and get a collosus deathball asap. If he is getting mutas then stay on blinkstalkers until you have a decent number then get high templar with storm, one templar per mineral field and a couple of cannons. 5. Defend until you are approaching max 6.Get a few archons and collosi in your deathball and stomp him before he gets broodlords. 7. ??? 8. Profit Now obviously it isn't that easy, but ultimately your success will come down to how good you are at multitasking and managing your expansions. As for 7 gating, it doesn't matter how you expand but FFE works best because you can usually sneak out an attack upgrade before you start warping in at your proxy pylon. | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
* FFE, get a strong economy and blink stalkers, don't build cannons but use your stalkers to defend. * When you army reaches a critical size, put about 5 cannons in each mineral line and push. * Take third while pushing. Basically, mutas can't do crap when you have enough blink stalkers in each mineral line, and zerg has to take a third to keep up with the 2 base toss. By building cannons just before you move out, you put all your early economy into an army, and with some good timing, you can hit the zerg before they have even close to enough defense to hold. At the same time, 5 cannons in each mineral line is enough to stop the base race (assuming your macro is good enough and that you're pushing before the muta count becomes ridiculous). Assuming you take down one of zergs bases and start getting your third up, you should be way ahead. | ||
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leadphyc
United States99 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:53 Tobberoth wrote: Here's a tip I got from grubby casting the empire vs mousesports team game in NASL: * FFE, get a strong economy and blink stalkers, don't build cannons but use your stalkers to defend. * When you army reaches a critical size, put about 5 cannons in each mineral line and push. * Take third while pushing. Basically, mutas can't do crap when you have enough blink stalkers in each mineral line, and zerg has to take a third to keep up with the 2 base toss. By building cannons just before you move out, you put all your early economy into an army, and with some good timing, you can hit the zerg before they have even close to enough defense to hold. At the same time, 5 cannons in each mineral line is enough to stop the base race (assuming your macro is good enough and that you're pushing before the muta count becomes ridiculous). Assuming you take down one of zergs bases and start getting your third up, you should be way ahead. ill try that thnx | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
2. Attach a replay or two. 3. Explain what you're ATTEMPTING to do against zerg and the things you think you screwed up and the things that you were just lost about. 4. Try to chin up. | ||
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dangthatsright
1160 Posts
On February 06 2012 18:27 Angel_ wrote: 1. Go to strat forum. 2. Attach a replay or two. 3. Explain what you're ATTEMPTING to do against zerg and the things you think you screwed up and the things that you were just lost about. 4. Try to chin up. Given some of the things I've seen in the strat forum (granted that was a while ago but reading SC2 general suggests to me this hasn't changed), I can't think of a better reason to go there other than that it's more appropriate nominally. But yeah, 2 and 3 would be quite helpful from the OP unless he already posted in the strat forum and I missed it. On February 06 2012 17:29 Bd.Snake wrote: Go watch some pvz from the gsl and stop being a whiny retard You already have the resources to get better i don't get why you don't use them and just make a stupid thread like this in the time you have made this thread and refreshed waiting for your answer you could of actually done something yourself This makes my head hurt on so many levels, in no small part because I recently left a forum where this kind of thing became the default response to anything someone wanted help on because people were too lazy to actually explain anything themselves, but also because I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what a forum is intended to do. At this point I realize that I actually have nothing useful to add on the topic because I have not heard of a good solution to mutas, except maybe on stream, in which case I forgot. | ||
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ins(out)side
220 Posts
If that doesn't happen don't worry, you'll be hitting his base with like 10 zealots, 4 stalkers, a sentry, and 2 or 3 archons at about 10-11 minutes so he can't get enough mutas to trade bases or take your army head on. In fact, he's gonna have a hard time holding this push no matter what. I've taken out Zergs who caught wind of the followup with enough time to make like 6 spines and still rolled him over. I'm going to be making a guide for it in the future. For the time being though, here is the basic rundown. Its basically a DT rush where you save as many DT's as possible after the harass to make into Archons. The DT's should hit around 730 and then at around 10-11 minutes you should have 2-3 archons, a bunch of zealots, one sentry, and a few stalkers. Note: this build order is very loose and after the inital opening I don't have the pylon timings or exact supply numbers included. Its important for you to watch your supply and not get supply blocked because if you do it will delay your DT's and decrease the chances of the build ending the game outright like it should. BTW I got this guide from watching SaSe stream so it does work at the highest levels of play. Yes, I know lots of Zergs get a safety evo chamber at about 650 to try and prevent builds like this. Even if you get scouted this build is still effective. 12 gate 14 gas 15 pylon 16 core 17 zealot 19 gas @ 100% core get WG research *stalker @ 100 gas get twilight council -->make sure you have this placed somewhere difficult for a zerg to scout with an ovie poke *sentry -->sometimes I won't get this guy because of the gas cost. However, if they go for an early roach build or something you'll want to have some forcefields. Its also great to have one sentry with full energy when you make the archon push so you can FF the ramp *dt shrine *gateway *proxy pylon somewhere on the map closer to the zerg base *gateway @100% warpgates start warping zealots as your mineral count permits @100% DT shrine warp 3 DT's and wreck as much havoc on the Zerg base as you can Be sure to cut probe production at 25 probes, theres no need to have more than that on one base Split your DT's and get as many drones as you can. Keep an eye on the DT's because the more you keep alive, the more archons you'll be able to attack with. If he only makes a single spore at his hatcheries, use 2 DT's to quickly take it down. Don't let him get your DT's with spores, force him to make a lair and/or overseers to handle your harass. Be careful to leave before the overseer pops. If he attempts to go fast mutas, like so many zergs are doing nowadays, you should be getting there right about when he starts it. If possible snipe that bad boy. You will find that your minerals pile up while you're executing your harass. I use these minerals to make mostly zealots and a few stalkers. I'll even add a single gateway because once you've got your army going with an appropriately placed proxy pylon you will want to reinforce with zealots (unless he makes a bunch of mutas in which case you'll want more stalkers). Chrono boost your gateways and get a nice healthy unit count going. You'll also have the minerals to expand but do this after you've warped in enough units for your attack. Take the DT's from your inital attack and warp in a couple more to make as many archons as you can. NOTE: DO NOT MAKE YOUR ARCHONS INSIDE YOUR BASE!!! With a standard wall off against Zerg, archons are too fat to fit through the little opening that zeals, stalkers and other gateway units can fit through. I've made the mistake of making the archons in my base and I had to kill a cybercore or gateway to get out. Funny thing is though, with that delay I still won! Once you have 10 zealots, 4 stalkers, 1 sentry, and 2 or 3 archons you're ready to go. Snipe watchtowers with a single unit only so its not so obvious you're going to attack. Truth be told though, even if you didn't do any damage with your DTs, the next push coming its still ridiculously strong. Even if Zerg sees you coming and puts up a shit ton of spines it doesn't really matter. You'll find that your army mows down pretty much everything he has to throw at you. Even if you don't end the game outright you will at least snipe his expansions and force him onto one base while back at home you've expanded and resumed probe production. So as you can see, the build is kind of all in but not completely. Truth be told, I've never failed with the archon push its that effective. Its just comforting to know that you've expanded as well in the rare case that Zerg happens to not die outright. Honestly though, they should. In practicing this build with my friend, I found that even with him scouting the DT shrine he only made single spores at his hatcheries and I quickly sniped them. If you'd like I have replays of me pulling this off and specifically sniping spires and eating mutas for breakfast. Even if he gets some mutas out, you just switch to making more stalkers. You'll find that archons pwn muta face. As for handling mutas with other more standard PvZ builds, check out Col.RSVP's guide. It can be found in the TL strategy section. Any questions or complaints about the build let me know. Good luck out there | ||
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
http://drop.sc/106149 FFE into +1 zealot pressure, no third means i throw down robo + twilight, start Blink and my third. He tries to cancel my third but because i'm fast enough with my initial stalkers i can deny him from killing it. Then i build up high enough stalker/High templar ball. I uild enough static defenses and go kill him before his 4 base econ sets in. Any question feel free to PM me. I also provide coaching if you think that can help you out. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:19 Geo.Rion wrote: " have not beaten a zerg in almost 2 weeks now and beating everything that is not zerg" I'm a 100% sure this is a lie, so didnt bother reading the rest (of the 1 paragraph blog, lol) Hey, it's happening to me (except against T not Z) OP, you need to defeat the zerg's economy. Then you must beat his mutalisks, and then his army. Only then will you claim victory. | ||
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Bd.Snake
Australia163 Posts
On February 06 2012 18:51 dangthatsright wrote: Given some of the things I've seen in the strat forum (granted that was a while ago but reading SC2 general suggests to me this hasn't changed), I can't think of a better reason to go there other than that it's more appropriate nominally. But yeah, 2 and 3 would be quite helpful from the OP unless he already posted in the strat forum and I missed it. This makes my head hurt on so many levels, in no small part because I recently left a forum where this kind of thing became the default response to anything someone wanted help on because people were too lazy to actually explain anything themselves, but also because I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what a forum is intended to do. At this point I realize that I actually have nothing useful to add on the topic because I have not heard of a good solution to mutas, except maybe on stream, in which case I forgot. The guy isn't even trying himself if he was trying he would of watched gsl downloaded some mc replays and took his builds for pvz and tried to understand what is going on in the games but he just posts here asking for the answer. One of the problems this makes is that if a player is getting told what to do all the time alot of them don't understand why there doing it they just do it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788 There you go sir | ||
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Bd.Snake
Australia163 Posts
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ins(out)side
220 Posts
Basically you FFE (Nexus first if possible) and then get plus one attack with your first 100 gas (after WG I believe) and make 4 gates. You need to have kept your scoutuing probe alive of course so that you can make a pylon somewhere out on the map relatively close to the Zerg third. Then you warp 4-8 zealots and send them his way. You should be able to get a bunch of drone kills at his third and if he doesnt have one yet theres a good chance you'll force a roach warren. If not you'll kill a bunch of lings. You also need to check out his natural. If he has a shit load of spines and only lings, chances are good that he is going for mutas. But don't fret. If you continue on with the build you should have 2-3 colo and a nice smattering of gateway units by about 12-13 minutes. This is usually enough to totally smash through most muta builds. Check out the thread in the strategy section for a more detailed guide to executing the build. I believe it is specifically designed to handle muta builds. Even if he doesn't go mutas the build is quite strong. | ||
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TheLOLas
United States646 Posts
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