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On February 06 2012 18:27 Angel_ wrote:
1. Go to strat forum.
2. Attach a replay or two.
3. Explain what you're ATTEMPTING to do against zerg and the things you think you screwed up and the things that you were just lost about.
4. Try to chin up.
Given some of the things I've seen in the strat forum (granted that was a while ago but reading SC2 general suggests to me this hasn't changed), I can't think of a better reason to go there other than that it's more appropriate nominally. But yeah, 2 and 3 would be quite helpful from the OP unless he already posted in the strat forum and I missed it.
On February 06 2012 17:29 Bd.Snake wrote:
Go watch some pvz from the gsl and stop being a whiny retard
You already have the resources to get better i don't get why you don't use them and just make a stupid thread like this
in the time you have made this thread and refreshed waiting for your answer you could of actually done something yourself
This makes my head hurt on so many levels, in no small part because I recently left a forum where this kind of thing became the default response to anything someone wanted help on because people were too lazy to actually explain anything themselves, but also because I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what a forum is intended to do.
At this point I realize that I actually have nothing useful to add on the topic because I have not heard of a good solution to mutas, except maybe on stream, in which case I forgot.
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I feel ya man...here is a build that works great on Metalopolis, XNC, and Shattered Temple. You can try it on other maps but when Zerg can take a fast third it makes things more difficult. When done right you will get there with DT's before he has his spire going and if he tries to get mutas you will either snipe his Spire, or one of his hatcheries, or at least wreck his econ with a bunch of drone kills.
If that doesn't happen don't worry, you'll be hitting his base with like 10 zealots, 4 stalkers, a sentry, and 2 or 3 archons at about 10-11 minutes so he can't get enough mutas to trade bases or take your army head on. In fact, he's gonna have a hard time holding this push no matter what. I've taken out Zergs who caught wind of the followup with enough time to make like 6 spines and still rolled him over.
I'm going to be making a guide for it in the future. For the time being though, here is the basic rundown. Its basically a DT rush where you save as many DT's as possible after the harass to make into Archons. The DT's should hit around 730 and then at around 10-11 minutes you should have 2-3 archons, a bunch of zealots, one sentry, and a few stalkers. Note: this build order is very loose and after the inital opening I don't have the pylon timings or exact supply numbers included. Its important for you to watch your supply and not get supply blocked because if you do it will delay your DT's and decrease the chances of the build ending the game outright like it should.
BTW I got this guide from watching SaSe stream so it does work at the highest levels of play. Yes, I know lots of Zergs get a safety evo chamber at about 650 to try and prevent builds like this. Even if you get scouted this build is still effective.
12 gate
14 gas
15 pylon
16 core
17 zealot
19 gas
@ 100% core get WG research
*stalker
@ 100 gas get twilight council -->make sure you have this placed somewhere difficult for a zerg to scout with an ovie poke
*sentry -->sometimes I won't get this guy because of the gas cost. However, if they go for an early roach build or something you'll want to have some forcefields. Its also great to have one sentry with full energy when you make the archon push so you can FF the ramp
*dt shrine
*gateway
*proxy pylon somewhere on the map closer to the zerg base
*gateway
@100% warpgates start warping zealots as your mineral count permits
@100% DT shrine warp 3 DT's and wreck as much havoc on the Zerg base as you can
Be sure to cut probe production at 25 probes, theres no need to have more than that on one base
Split your DT's and get as many drones as you can. Keep an eye on the DT's because the more you keep alive, the more archons you'll be able to attack with. If he only makes a single spore at his hatcheries, use 2 DT's to quickly take it down. Don't let him get your DT's with spores, force him to make a lair and/or overseers to handle your harass. Be careful to leave before the overseer pops. If he attempts to go fast mutas, like so many zergs are doing nowadays, you should be getting there right about when he starts it. If possible snipe that bad boy.
You will find that your minerals pile up while you're executing your harass. I use these minerals to make mostly zealots and a few stalkers. I'll even add a single gateway because once you've got your army going with an appropriately placed proxy pylon you will want to reinforce with zealots (unless he makes a bunch of mutas in which case you'll want more stalkers).
Chrono boost your gateways and get a nice healthy unit count going. You'll also have the minerals to expand but do this after you've warped in enough units for your attack. Take the DT's from your inital attack and warp in a couple more to make as many archons as you can. NOTE: DO NOT MAKE YOUR ARCHONS INSIDE YOUR BASE!!! With a standard wall off against Zerg, archons are too fat to fit through the little opening that zeals, stalkers and other gateway units can fit through. I've made the mistake of making the archons in my base and I had to kill a cybercore or gateway to get out. Funny thing is though, with that delay I still won!
Once you have 10 zealots, 4 stalkers, 1 sentry, and 2 or 3 archons you're ready to go. Snipe watchtowers with a single unit only so its not so obvious you're going to attack. Truth be told though, even if you didn't do any damage with your DTs, the next push coming its still ridiculously strong.
Even if Zerg sees you coming and puts up a shit ton of spines it doesn't really matter. You'll find that your army mows down pretty much everything he has to throw at you. Even if you don't end the game outright you will at least snipe his expansions and force him onto one base while back at home you've expanded and resumed probe production.
So as you can see, the build is kind of all in but not completely. Truth be told, I've never failed with the archon push its that effective. Its just comforting to know that you've expanded as well in the rare case that Zerg happens to not die outright. Honestly though, they should. In practicing this build with my friend, I found that even with him scouting the DT shrine he only made single spores at his hatcheries and I quickly sniped them.
If you'd like I have replays of me pulling this off and specifically sniping spires and eating mutas for breakfast. Even if he gets some mutas out, you just switch to making more stalkers. You'll find that archons pwn muta face.
As for handling mutas with other more standard PvZ builds, check out Col.RSVP's guide. It can be found in the TL strategy section.
Any questions or complaints about the build let me know. Good luck out there
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Here a good example off how to defend muta ling
http://drop.sc/106149
FFE into +1 zealot pressure, no third means i throw down robo + twilight, start Blink and my third. He tries to cancel my third but because i'm fast enough with my initial stalkers i can deny him from killing it. Then i build up high enough stalker/High templar ball. I uild enough static defenses and go kill him before his 4 base econ sets in.
Any question feel free to PM me. I also provide coaching if you think that can help you out.
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your Country52797 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:19 Geo.Rion wrote:
" have not beaten a zerg in almost 2 weeks now and beating everything that is not zerg"
I'm a 100% sure this is a lie, so didnt bother reading the rest (of the 1 paragraph blog, lol)
Hey, it's happening to me (except against T not Z)
OP, you need to defeat the zerg's economy. Then you must beat his mutalisks, and then his army.
Only then will you claim victory.
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On February 06 2012 18:51 dangthatsright wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 18:27 Angel_ wrote:
1. Go to strat forum.
2. Attach a replay or two.
3. Explain what you're ATTEMPTING to do against zerg and the things you think you screwed up and the things that you were just lost about.
4. Try to chin up. Given some of the things I've seen in the strat forum (granted that was a while ago but reading SC2 general suggests to me this hasn't changed), I can't think of a better reason to go there other than that it's more appropriate nominally. But yeah, 2 and 3 would be quite helpful from the OP unless he already posted in the strat forum and I missed it. Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 17:29 Bd.Snake wrote:
Go watch some pvz from the gsl and stop being a whiny retard
You already have the resources to get better i don't get why you don't use them and just make a stupid thread like this
in the time you have made this thread and refreshed waiting for your answer you could of actually done something yourself
This makes my head hurt on so many levels, in no small part because I recently left a forum where this kind of thing became the default response to anything someone wanted help on because people were too lazy to actually explain anything themselves, but also because I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what a forum is intended to do. At this point I realize that I actually have nothing useful to add on the topic because I have not heard of a good solution to mutas, except maybe on stream, in which case I forgot.
The guy isn't even trying himself if he was trying he would of watched gsl downloaded some mc replays and took his builds for pvz and tried to understand what is going on in the games but he just posts here asking for the answer. One of the problems this makes is that if a player is getting told what to do all the time alot of them don't understand why there doing it they just do it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788
There you go sir
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You want some good all ins/timings download some MC reps or watch him vs leenock or drg from blizzard cup minus the carrier game
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Another good build to consider is the Naniwa FFE build into 2 base Colo push. Theres a thread for it somewhere in the strategy section. Here is a very basic rundown.
Basically you FFE (Nexus first if possible) and then get plus one attack with your first 100 gas (after WG I believe) and make 4 gates. You need to have kept your scoutuing probe alive of course so that you can make a pylon somewhere out on the map relatively close to the Zerg third. Then you warp 4-8 zealots and send them his way. You should be able to get a bunch of drone kills at his third and if he doesnt have one yet theres a good chance you'll force a roach warren. If not you'll kill a bunch of lings.
You also need to check out his natural. If he has a shit load of spines and only lings, chances are good that he is going for mutas. But don't fret. If you continue on with the build you should have 2-3 colo and a nice smattering of gateway units by about 12-13 minutes. This is usually enough to totally smash through most muta builds.
Check out the thread in the strategy section for a more detailed guide to executing the build. I believe it is specifically designed to handle muta builds. Even if he doesn't go mutas the build is quite strong.
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Watch some Day 9 dailies, and learn the matchup better. Then practice and try to improve. Your problem will go away fast.
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EPT
