Note: You can view the other episodes in this series by clicking here Note: I labeled this as ep5, it's actually ep6
NASL Season 2 Finals Today I look at the NASL Season 2 finals. I'm not going to lie, I was not to excited to do this episode. This has easily been the most asked for episode and I knew at some point I'd have to do it but I have been avoiding it.Why? Well, I think the topic, or pitchforks, for NASL Season 2 have been pretty widely, and liberally, discussed already. We already know that their production could have been better but what I think is most important is that I think they know it as well. Anyone who has seen NASL Season 3 can see huge and awesome changes to their set, their lighting, sound and overall production.
I thought very seriously about not doing this episode because I kinda want to let NASL move on and I didn't want to languish on a topic we all love to hate on. The goal of this series, after all, is to offer constructive feedback and, with this, I don't know how constructive I was. I tried. I may have failed.
Three pitchfork-able things NASL Season 2 Finals is typically pitchforked on 3 specific things: sound, camera work, and the red carpet. I discuss these and a few other things in this episode and with each I get pretty specific, if not damn personal, on how they all could have been easily fixed.
Crew vs Team Near the end of the video I bring up a point about the differences between a production crew and a production team. I don't know which they had here but I would imagine it was the former. This is a minor point but I think it shouldn't be overlooked. the differences a team can make over just a crew are subtle but extremely important. A [well lead] team can operate much more efficiently, they know each others bailiwicks, temperaments and skills. A team can be fluid. A team can add something you never see on camera but you can feel in the fluidity of the production.
Closing Bottom line, NASL is trying very hard to put on an awesome [independent] production. But what is also clear is that NASL is trying to compete with MLG, IPL and other large events. As such we, the viewers, will naturally hold them to a higher standard. Grassroots and independence is not a measure we hold as a handicap when you are competing to be the best -- sorry.
I thought very long and hard about whether I should do this episode and then once shot I debated whether I should release it. I don't like being negative. I don't like 'calling out' individuals as I did here (not by name, just by position). At the end of the day though I reviewed the video and I stand by what I said. There were very basic, very easily corrected things that not could, but should have been done and weren't. If we are to move on then I think we need to identify those things so we can all learn from them. Saying a 'production is terrible' is not constructive; Identifying what made people say that, I hope, is.
On January 23 2012 23:29 nekoconeco wrote: Great work once again!
Have you considered trying to get the event producers on a Skype call for an interview?
I'd be interested in doing that and I've talked to a few event runners who have suggested it as well, I'd just need to make sure they didn't turn all fluffy in the process. I often speak to people that were involved in a production before doing the episode but to much contact might lead to me holding back and not getting as specific on things as I'd like. There, I think, is value in both approaches. I'd do skype conversations but probably about generalities of putting on a production.
Really love your stuff, I love how specific you get and the simple solutions you propose. It makes it very engaging even to people who have no clue about production (like me), 'cuz who doesn't like to learn about all this cool stuff that happens in the nitty gritty and in the background??
Despite having to be critical, everything you talked about had a constructive side to it. It's amazing how 'terrible' productions such as the NASL could be so much better, or at least not so obviously flawed, if they made very minor changes like you mentioned. I feel like some tournaments should be hiring you as a production director Awesome job.
looking forward to the next show =D i dont think you have to apologize so overtly for the negativity. Think of all the time you spend skirting around the issues xD as long as you state some factual/objective issue you had, just say it! for instance i heard the camera guy was some voulonteer (just rumors) so you can just say "hes probably a great guy and all but these shots, he messed them up" nobody can hate you for that so... ps: as far as production goes, when you show pictures you have some really ugly looking grey double frames and some wood look background? could look better =D
On January 24 2012 02:50 d9mmdi wrote: looking forward to the next show =D i dont think you have to apologize so overtly for the negativity. Think of all the time you spend skirting around the issues xD as long as you state some factual/objective issue you had, just say it! for instance i heard the camera guy was some voulonteer (just rumors) so you can just say "hes probably a great guy and all but these shots, he messed them up" nobody can hate you for that so... ps: as far as production goes, when you show pictures you have some really ugly looking grey double frames and some wood look background? could look better =D
thanks moge! You know there's a difference with critisizing to be hurtful and critisizing to help. I can't speak for everybody at the NASL but they probably agree. I appreciate what you do in all your episodes and I think it's really fascinating! I'm no expert or anything in production but it's relaly cool to hear this and big thanks for your time and effort.
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
On January 24 2012 05:30 StarStruck wrote: Jason, Jason, Jason
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
that doesn't even m ake sense? you wouldn't help b/c they can do things better? so you're saying you'd only go with things that they can't do better or they can do better less?
On January 24 2012 05:30 StarStruck wrote: Jason, Jason, Jason
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
that doesn't even m ake sense? you wouldn't help b/c they can do things better? so you're saying you'd only go with things that they can't do better or they can do better less?
that's kind of messed up imo TT
Sound off.
From your perspective; however, I've already given you guys tidbits on what you could do better and so have many other people. I could write a book on all of technical issues if I wanted, but I don't.
I am not here to do anyone's job for them. Especially when it comes to the basics and that's what this comes down to. The basics.
I've watched four of the six videos Jason has done thus far and as I said everything he's pointed out is basic if you have any experience in production let alone went to school for it. It might not be obvious to everyone, but that's why you have to hire the right people for the job because then they would have an idea of what they're actually doing.
On January 24 2012 05:30 StarStruck wrote: Jason, Jason, Jason
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
that doesn't even m ake sense? you wouldn't help b/c they can do things better? so you're saying you'd only go with things that they can't do better or they can do better less?
that's kind of messed up imo TT
Would you review the Macbeth video I made for grade 10 English? No, you wouldn't, because it's so far away from good production that the mistakes are obvious. You'd want to spend your efforts on a production that is already 90% of the way there, giving them little tips to give them the extra 10% that are very difficult for the layman to learn about.
He is arguing that NASL is in the <90% category. You argue it is in the >90% category.
This "show" is just awesome! I'd really like if you'd announce the event for the next episode in the end of a video, since that's also some sort of value add to your little production
On January 24 2012 05:30 StarStruck wrote: Jason, Jason, Jason
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
that doesn't even m ake sense? you wouldn't help b/c they can do things better? so you're saying you'd only go with things that they can't do better or they can do better less?
that's kind of messed up imo TT
Would you review the Macbeth video I made for grade 10 English? No, you wouldn't, because it's so far away from good production that the mistakes are obvious. You'd want to spend your efforts on a production that is already 90% of the way there, giving them little tips to give them the extra 10% that are very difficult for the layman to learn about.
He is arguing that NASL is in the <90% category. You argue it is in the >90% category.
It's not messed up to disagree with each another
Edit: I should have read page 2 before responding
Anyway, I'm very happy that Jason is doing something like this. He's giving everyone a how to guide on TV production. There are a lot of simple things that people overlook if they aren't paying attention.
In this case, I think it was a lot of inexperience. I mean, it's one thing to learn something on the job it's another thing to put someone in a role that they aren't necessarily qualified for. There's a lot of that in this community. Everyone wants to help out, which is great but there are certain things we shouldn't overlook. Even a consultant could have gone a long way to make sure the production was a bit more posh.
On January 24 2012 05:30 StarStruck wrote: Jason, Jason, Jason
If it were me, I wouldn't touch the NASL's production with a four foot pole because there is so much they could do better. Truly an eye sore. Anyway, more power to you for ironing it out.
Wouldn't be surprised if they give you a star soon.
that doesn't even m ake sense? you wouldn't help b/c they can do things better? so you're saying you'd only go with things that they can't do better or they can do better less?
that's kind of messed up imo TT
Would you review the Macbeth video I made for grade 10 English? No, you wouldn't, because it's so far away from good production that the mistakes are obvious. You'd want to spend your efforts on a production that is already 90% of the way there, giving them little tips to give them the extra 10% that are very difficult for the layman to learn about.
He is arguing that NASL is in the <90% category. You argue it is in the >90% category.
It's not messed up to disagree with each another
Edit: I should have read page 2 before responding
Anyway, I'm very happy that Jason is doing something like this. He's giving everyone a how to guide on TV production. There are a lot of simple things that people overlook if they aren't paying attention.
In this case, I think it was a lot of inexperience. I mean, it's one thing to learn something on the job it's another thing to put someone in a role that they aren't necessarily qualified for. There's a lot of that in this community. Everyone wants to help out, which is great but there are certain things we shouldn't overlook. Even a consultant could have gone a long way to make sure the production was a bit more posh.
fair enough! I retract it. Obviously i'm more passionate about it but you're right. Just an emotional snap decision which wasn't thought through.
On January 24 2012 08:54 itsjustatank wrote: You used my picture of sen! <3
YAY! It's a great photo. Added a speech bubble crediting you. BTW just checked out your Flickr, you're a great event photographer.
Thank you very much for the compliment! I'm just starting out and as such it was a very pleasant surprise seeing that photo in your video.
Regarding your video itself, I always thought that the underexposed background behind the casters of the NASL grand finals was an intentional move on their part. I think they were trying to hedge against the ability of people situated behind the caster desk to distract viewer attention from the casters themselves, while still being able to place the casters in a physically unique position at the event itself for its live spectator audience. Whether or not it was aesthetically pleasing is another issue entirely however, and I fully agree with your suggestions on that point.
In addition, most of us who attended the event agreed that the crowd should have perhaps been encouraged to crowd around the red carpet as players made their entrances. After a day or so people finally got the idea on their own, but perhaps it could have been something solved earlier through some intervention.
Your video series as a whole has been greatly informative, please keep doing more. Might I suggest that you take a look at the recent CSL Regional LAN that was held at UC Irvine this past weekend? I feel that those guys ran an awesome tournament and stream that deserves some time in the spotlight.
wow, glad this was spotlighted as I hadn't seen this series before and Im definitely gonna watch the previous 5 episodes. Having someone explain to you the details of what you felt was wrong in general, but didnt know what it was exactly is really cool.
I really like this serie. It enriches the viewing experience, making me more aware of and appreciative of the productional part (I hope that translation made sense :D ). Oh, and I recommend you to try the Swedish gin from Nils Oscar.
On January 24 2012 08:54 itsjustatank wrote: You used my picture of sen! <3
YAY! It's a great photo. Added a speech bubble crediting you. BTW just checked out your Flickr, you're a great event photographer.
Thank you very much for the compliment! I'm just starting out and as such it was a very pleasant surprise seeing that photo in your video.
Regarding your video itself, I always thought that the underexposed background behind the casters of the NASL grand finals was an intentional move on their part. I think they were trying to hedge against the ability of people situated behind the caster desk to distract viewer attention from the casters themselves, while still being able to place the casters in a physically unique position at the event itself for its live spectator audience. Whether or not it was aesthetically pleasing is another issue entirely however, and I fully agree with your suggestions on that point.
In addition, most of us who attended the event agreed that the crowd should have perhaps been encouraged to crowd around the red carpet as players made their entrances. After a day or so people finally got the idea on their own, but perhaps it could have been something solved earlier through some intervention.
Your video series as a whole has been greatly informative, please keep doing more. Might I suggest that you take a look at the recent CSL Regional LAN that was held at UC Irvine this past weekend? I feel that those guys ran an awesome tournament and stream that deserves some time in the spotlight.
Agreeeeeeeed! It would be interesting to get some opinions on it. Obviously the first live event of this caliber I've hosted myself.
Stuff I know can be improved on: (the banner behind the caster desk could/should have been lowered to get rid of the white space. Also, lots of clutter on the desks and such could have been cleaned up. Any other words for future LAN events would be quite awesome, will definitely work to incorporate !
@Xeris, I'll take a look at CSL. I saw bits of the matches this weekend but none of the casting. If you ever have any questions just PM me, would love to help out where I can.
To be honest i think it would have been better to pick the new NASL season as showcased in the NASTL. It would have been easier for you and would have allowed you to pick less obvious spots to talk about. I think the not so obvious things are what make this series very very good. Anyways still a good episode but not as exciting for me as the former ones.
You're such a good guy Jason. And incredibly well versed in your area of expertise. Please please keep them coming. These are so informative, not to mention entertaining. :D Mad love. <3
This is good, I actually like this more because unlike the last episode I saw, this one actually has some good and bad to enlist and we are looking at the production value of a much smaller budget and less professional crew (in comparison to Blizzard's over-the-top production of their events).
So watching this I actually enjoyed this despite the downward tone and your personal dislike of it. I really didn't enjoy the first 5 minutes being about the discrepenacies; making sure you don't step on any toes or that you wanted to underline or highlight what you may say is bad or good, hateful or just bluntness. I suppose it had to be done, but perhaps maybe there could be some things left out given that it's a huge chunk of your time and it eventually just dulls the viewer (at least for me a bit).
I think it's good that you make the distinguish viewpoint of the audience and the online spectator because yeah, the event, through the pictures looked absolutely superb, but when we saw it through the moving lens of the main cameraman, it looked so bare, empty and even a bit dull. Big garage, beetle car so to speak.
Good point on the cameraman by the way. There should be on an emphasis on just how much the main camera needed work because even during the interview, it was a fidgety camera and it really got annoyed and felt that the whole professional events dimmed to just an amateur one with a lot of money.
Yes to the red carpet, it gave interaction, customization and adding personal touch to the players and NASL. I'm surprised that my ideas are so similar to yours. I was thinking the same about the camera shot being down in front on the player and thus putting more foucs on the player, letting light have a more reflective emphasis and removing the fear or confirming the notion that there was no one there on Day 1 (and thus leading people to assume that this event was over-budgeted for nearly no attendees).
Good episode, felt it could have been a bit more in-depth, but maybe I expected too much and it wasn't your goal. Really liked it, can't wait for ep. 7
On January 25 2012 03:00 Torte de Lini wrote: So watching this I actually enjoyed this despite the downward tone and your personal dislike of it. I really didn't enjoy the first 5 minutes being about the discrepenacies; making sure you don't step on any toes or that you wanted to underline or highlight what you may say is bad or good, hateful or just bluntness. I suppose it had to be done, but perhaps maybe there could be some things left out given that it's a huge chunk of your time and it eventually just dulls the viewer (at least for me a bit).
Yep, I agree. I think that is my personal main takeaway from doing this ep; trust what I am saying and know it is coming from a good place. This being the first episode where I gave some harsh critique I was a little wary.
Gretorp pointed out in an earlier post that there is a distinction between being critical to hurt and criticizing to help. So long as I stay on the side of helping I'll be less wishy-washy in future episodes.
Ooh, that's going to be a good one. Good stuff, I think you only need to make disclaimers like in this episode before people know you and only if you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, in every episode you try and even the good and the bad out with the bad also having alternative or suggestions to make. With that being done, why bother making sure you're not hurting anyone by saying what you're saying, y'know?
You already know this, but shoot; might as well just say it out loud haha!
I absolutely love this series. I love the way you approach it and the scope of what you talk about, and how you don't try to overstretch your bounds (such as with the sound issues.)
The only bad thing about IEM in my opinion is that they never show the players... (at least from IEM's I've seen), or maybe I'm wrong. Whenever I watch IEM, it's just...
Game screen --> cut to caster desk after the game --> cut back to game when the next game starts.
They have a random still camera in the place they get shots of too sometimes. Seems like an uber setup for such a big event!
IEM is the one Major that I do not recommend barcrafts to tune in. Its reliability, consistence, and ability to generate engaging storyline make it difficult to consider barcraft ready. Really have no clue where IEM can change to fix that though.
@Xeris I do agree with you. I think they did a much better job showing the players last weekend, though. They had great camera setups on the players before matches. I do agree that the grandeur of the space was missing. They had a phenomenal space, would have liked to have seen it more.
On January 25 2012 04:47 Primadog wrote: IEM is the one Major that I do not recommend barcrafts to tune in. Its reliability, consistence, and ability to generate engaging storyline make it difficult to consider barcraft ready. Really have no clue where IEM can change to fix that though.
Interesting point. Not sure I quite get what you mean though. Can you expound? You can PM me if you don't want to post it here. Would be interested in hearing more on this.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j7Zmu.jpg)
