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I read the recent thread about "How Starcraft could work if it was real"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214452
But I don't buy it. How believeable is Starcraft 2? I've struggled with this since release. I understand this is a fantasy sci-fi game, and everything doesn't have to make sense or be realistic. But there is a difference between believable gameplay and realistic gameplay. Certainly, only a few of the units are realistic since the game is set in the future. But how many are plausible or believable? This is important to me because it affects the enjoyability of the game. I'm especially bothered by the Terrans, as I think they are the most ridiculous. So lets take a look at the Terran units, the design of which has always caused me to scratch my head more than the other races:
A marine:
shoots a machine gun
has body armor
Verdict: Believable and realistic. Great!
A group of stimmed marines stutter stepping and efficiently killing approaching units:
Anyone who has fired a gun at a gun range knows how difficult it is to shoot accurately. You have to set up, aim through the scope, take a breath, and fire at the target. And still you don't always hit. Now let's imagine an incoming attack from the Marine's perspective:
You're in a tight group of 10 other guys, all in bulky body armor. The commander orders you to fire, you get stimmed on drugs, firing at fast-moving zerglings. You're getting nudged around by all the body armor of your fellow soldiers while packed in a tight ball. You can't see shit, much less hit anything. You're just firing wildly. The Zerglings are swarming everywhere. You start stutter stepping and your next shot kills your buddy who stepped in front of you. Next step you trip over your fellow marine. Mutas overhead and spine crawlers put an end to your drug-fueled existence rather quickly.
Now lets imagine what would happen in the SC2 world:
The commander orders you to fire, you get stimmed on drugs, firing at fast-moving zerglings. You're hitting your target with every shot, and even though you're in a tight ball you're not accidentally shooting any of your friends in the neck or tripping over each other while stutter-stepping and being attacked by spine crawlers or mutas. You're killing all the swarming zergs, and to add insult to their injury, a friendly medivac is hovering nearby to heal you to full strength. All with perfect footwork that makes synchronized swimming look like child's play. Ridiculous.
Verdict: Unbelievable and unrealistic
Marauders:
All Marauders seem to be some black guy in a suit bulkier than that worn by an astronaut. Looks like each one weighs 500 pounds. Yet they can run around faster than the un-armored Ghost while simultaneously and accurately firing dual grenade launchers. When stimmed, somehow the weapons are able to fire about once per second. And he has two of them. Oh, and the ammunition is unlimited, however he can't shoot at a stationary hovering unit like a Banshee.
Verdict: Unbelieveable
Thor:
Every Thor is Arnold Schwarzenegger cloned inside of a huge robot. I personally wouldn't have picked this unit for inclusion in the game, since it seems like something a 10 year old kid would choose just after watching T2. But I guess its OK. Would have liked to have seen Blizzard use a little more imagination with this unit as "a guy in a huge robot" has been done many times before.
Verdict: Unrealistic but believable
Hellion:
The thing that bothers me about the Hellion is that you can line up 4 marines in a line and then tell the Hellion to attack the last Marine, and only the targeted Marine is damaged. It just seems that if Blizzard was going to make a unit that does the type of damage a Hellion is capable of, at least make it do friendly fire. After all, if you line up 4 enemy marines in a row, all are damaged. The Hellion is a dune-buggy. Why does it need to stop in order to shoot? This is just a weirdly designed mechanic.
Verdict: Mostly believable, until HOTS, when it will become a Transformer (tm)
Medivac:
Talk about strange mechanics, the Medivac takes the cake. Not only is there room inside it for ANOTHER AIRCRAFT (landed Viking), it can load units instantaneously and does so without landing. It can unload units, even tanks, while in motion. A unit dropped from a Medivac is ready and able to attack instantly. Medivac can also heal units with a beam of light. Let's think about this because it violates the laws of entropy on so many levels. *A medivac can heal an infantry unit faster than some enemies can damage said unit*. You'd think that if you can make something as advanced a repair beam, it would be even easier to make some sort of death beam that can be used on enemies. YET MARINES ARE STILL USING BULLETS, a technology we have today in real life. Why? Makes no sense.
Verdict: Unrealistic and unbelievable
Tank:
I have no problems with the tank, except that it seems underpriced for its abilities. But that's another discussion.
Verdict: Believable, realistic, I like this unit
Banshee:
The unit is fine. But no anti-air? Yes, that would break the game. But the fact that Blizz had to essentially cripple the unit in favor of game balance: was it a strategic decision, or just poor overall "game design"/unit composition? I know, I know. It is needed because of balance. But it just seems like in real life, the banshee and viking would have been made one unit, and it seems artificial that Blizz split them.
Verdict: Believable
Viking:
Every time I see a Viking land, I expect to hear the sound of a Transformer (tm) transforming. Why is this unit in the game? The Viking can also hover like a Banshee, but can't attack ground. Huh? Weird game design? Oh yeah, "balance".
Verdict: Believable, until you see it transform into a mini-Thor, then unbelievable
Battlecruiser:
Not a problem, at first glance. It seems to be a cool unit with an awesome Yamato cannon. Except that a relatively small group of Mutas can bring one down. This would be like a flock of bats sinking a battleship. And why is it so small? Its the size of about 12 marines grouped together. I guess if it was actual size it would take up the whole screen, but again, scaling it down so small just makes it strange. And how high is it actually floating? Well, high enough that a Marauder can't shell it, but low enough that an SCV can repair it. Hmmmm. This one is puzzling.
Verdict: Believable in theory, but unbelievable when you think about how it would really work
SCV:
Working together, can repair a building faster than a small group of T3 Protoss units can damage it. This would be like a bunch of guys with rocket launchers attacking my house, and me and some friends can repair the house so quickly that its never destroyed. Entropy, anyone? The strangest thing is, despite being able to repair simultaneously, they are unable to build a structure simultaneously. I don't get it. This must be "game design" again.
Verdict: 1 SCV is believable - multiple working together is a stretch
Ghost:
Psionic abilities are a good addition for Terrans, and the nuke strike is cool. Snipe and EMP are rather boring, IMO, but that's not what this post is about.
Verdict: Believable in the sci-fi realm
Raven:
This is the coolest looking and sounding unit in the game, but its just a weird unit overall. Let's look at its abilities. PDD: I think Blizzard really wanted to have a "shield" for nearby units but thought it might be too overused, since the Sentry already has it. So it came up with the PDD. I don't know about this. Is there no better idea?
The Hunter-Seeker is also interesting, but why choose the Raven (successor to BW science vessel) for the unit that has the ability to use this weapon? Seems like a cool AOE weapon that would be used by infantry. Why did Blizz put it on such an obscure unit? And auto-turrets...why on the Raven? It seems like in the real future world, they would just be called down like a MULE. This whole unit just seems "tacked-on" after the fact.
Verdict: Believable, barely
MULE:
Called down from orbit. But if the Terran can call down a MULE from orbit at the drop of a hat, why can't they call down bombs and nuke the shit out of the enemy? Its a bit of a contradiction that doesn't make sense for me. Plus, when it runs out of energy, why does it break apart/explode? Shouldn't it just stop, and disappear from the game? Whose idea was that? Its like I'm driving along in my car and I run out of gas, but instead of my car just puttering to a stop, all the bolts come lose and it breaks into pieces. WTF?
Verdict: Unbelievable
Flying Terran buildings:
If your tech is advanced enough to make an entire building fly, move, and land, AND NEVER RUN OUT OF FUEL FOR THE THRUSTERS, why can't they just be making units/researching while flying and thus impervious to ground-attack units? Game design.
Verdict: Unbelievable
Supply depot:
Roach cannot burrow-move under it, unless its lowered, in which case they can. Some designer just didn't think this one through.
So here's what I think happened. Blizzard sat down to write SC2, and thought up a bunch of cool units. But they had to be different enough from BW to warrant SC2 as a sequel. However, in order to balance the game Blizzard had to cripple various units, and make others have strange mechanics. They also had to split abilities among units so there was enough variety, even at the expense of believability.
I know that making the game more realistic might make it more difficult to balance or perhaps less fun in some circumstances. But now we're left with units that don't make much sense and a race that feels strange to play, IMO. I don't get this feeling with Zerg. Just seems like they could have done better with Terran is all.
  
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How do unrealistic units ruin the game for you? It doesn't matter much at all, don't see how it bothers you.
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... Starcraft would be so fucking boring if it was "realistic".
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Okay, I'm going to lay it down now so we don't have discussion about Terran units, because if you know how LOLWUT the Terran background is, there shouldn't even be Terran.
40,000 humans, some being mutated sub-humans, others criminals and the like, populating to well over 10 billion in 200 years (yeah, perfectly reasonable) while being as advanced as the Earth humans (wut)?
To put it briefly, if Starcraft was realistic, there wouldn't be Terran. They would have died out quickly upon arriving in Koprulu, or if very few did survive, they would be hunter-gatherers by the events of the SC games :S.
Also, if SC was realistic, the first Zealot would win every game. You'd need to max out on Marines to kill a Zealot drop xp. They can dodge bullets, and hack everything instantly, and will most likely be able to run like slings when not in the super psionic-energy charge mode state given their leg shape, physiology, strength, advanced technology in their suits, and other things. :|
That said, Zealots would probably also have high powered laser guns for ranged attack that 1-shot even heavy armored tanks and Zerg units, and can even knock out lighter air/space craft.
Fear the might of the Strogg Protoss infantry!!!
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I find zerg and protoss much more believable
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your Country52797 Posts
On January 07 2012 09:39 eourcs wrote:
... Starcraft would be so fucking boring if it was "realistic".
And battlecruisers would be bigger than the screen.
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The point is (almost) nobody cares. If you were in the majority with being bothered by this, Blizzard might've done something about it. As it is, all everyone cares about is that the game is good and fun to play.
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wait, a marine is believable and a marauder is not?
a marine also has unlimited ammunition and how can they shoot faster when they stim (take steriods)?
What about the protoss or zerg race?
I'm sorry but I just can't seem to follow ur logic.
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This is a game!!! IT SHOULD BE BASED ON THE REAL WORLD!!!!
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I'm not sure if you should nitpick too much at the realism of units if you do not understand the lore that much. Mutas are the size of small planes so yeah, a flock should be able to kill a battlecruiser. Marauders run so fast because they are helped along by the suit itself. Marines shoot like 100 shots a second or something, but they only hit and do damage twice a second. Marines also don't technically use bullets as we know them these days. They use metal spikes.
A lot of what you say is true, the game isn't realistic, but a lot of other things you say aren't true. Also, RTS games in general lack realism. If you feel you need realism, you should probably play BF3 or something.
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"I control a militaristic force with just a mouse and keyboard."
Realistic and believable as I have seen god use a keyboard and mouse to control in Sim Earth.
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making games realistic is stupid
making games balanced is smart
i dont get your problem here
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You don't know how many times I've played a PvT and thought "That's fucking unbelievable."
Glad to know my gut was right
:p
Though I think you missed some points on how Terran should be more awesome but isnt because of unreal constraints... think of the speed at which mules are traveling towards the earth... you should totally be able to snipe collosi with them.
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Starcraft isn't a simulation game. It's a strategy game with a very basic set of mechanics that are meant to be intuitive and simple.
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Lol judging a game set in the future by today's technological standards.
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Starcraft is just math coupled with avatars for eye candy.
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thinly veiled balance whine
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The thing with the burrowed roaches and the supply depot has always bugged me. This one makes no sense at all, even in this hocus pocus magic world of sci fi and telepathic aliens.
Also, if you walk a burrowed unit close to a ridge/cliff, shouldn't it just pop out of the wall on the other (lower) side?
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For me the most unbelievable thing in starcraft has nothing to do with terran units but that zerg units can fly in space. That doesn't work now and will not work in a million years unless you can change the universe itself.
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On January 07 2012 10:23 dragoonier wrote:
For me the most unbelievable thing in starcraft has nothing to do with terran units but that zerg units can fly in space. That doesn't work now and will not work in a million years unless you can change the universe itself.
They just propel themselves so hard when they are still inside some planets athmosphere so they go all the way! 
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This blog hurt my soul to read.
I just want you to know, you hurt my soul. T_T
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I guess what this guy could sort of argue is that if there was some race of technologically advanced humans, they probably would not build an array of forces that resembles the units for Terrans in SC2. And if you look back at the units in BW, they do actually seem more plausible as a whole.
I'm not sure is this guy is serious in the first place though.
edit: It would be funny if someone did a parody post explaining why each chess piece is unbelievable.
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I see all three races as kinda funny because, using technology they've demonstrated having before, all three could break the game completely.
Zerg could make giant armored banelings that have the health of an ultralisk, and the damage and splash radius of a nuke fairly believably given what we've already seen out of them.
Protoss could... fuck, Protoss could do ANYTHING because they've got technology that Terran humans with their relatively advanced technology can't even begin to understand. One could example could be simply giving a BW shield battery wheels and the shield strength of an immortal to make Protoss armies pretty much unkillable.
Terran could just drop tac-nukes orbitally, just as the OP suggested they could do instead of MULE's.
Fuck.
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It isn't often I regret reading a blog, but this is one of those occasions. Expecting realism in a video game that doesn't strive for realism and then bashing developers for it. Wow.
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Marauders:
All Marauders seem to be some black guy in a suit bulkier than that worn by an astronaut. Looks like each one weighs 500 pounds. Yet they can run around faster than the un-armored Ghost while simultaneously and accurately firing dual grenade launchers
Verdict: Unbelieveable
Of course a Marauder can move faster than an un-armored Ghost: It's 'armor' is a powered exoskeleton.
DUUUUUH
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Do you also hate Chess because of how unrealistic it is? Starcraft is a strategy game, not a simulation of real war. Addressing your complaints would involve compromising the playability of Starcraft as a fast-paced competitive strategy game.
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If you think about model design, here is my take:
Believable: Goliath
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/e/e5/Goliath.png)
Unbelievable: Thor (this looks like a Megazord from Power Rangers)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/0/0b/Thor.png/200px-Thor.png)
Believable: Dropship
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/2/23/Dropship.png)
Unbelievable: Medivac (a ray of healing light? yeah.... The model design is about the same as the dropship though)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/9/9f/Medivac.png/200px-Medivac.png)
Believable: Wraith
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/7/7c/Wraith.png)
Unbelievable: Viking (transformer units are just.... retarded?)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/c/c0/Viking.png/200px-Viking.png)
The marauder design is also way too stylized to look "believable".
The reaper is kind of "okay" I think, jet packs are nothing new.
I'd like to take the opportunity and say that SC2 looks too colorful, blocky and shiny and that, summed with the poor sound effects they chose, killed a lot of the SC universe atmosphere.
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this blog made me laugh so hard, quality OP!
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Are you kidding? Terran is plenty realistic. One unarmed alien ripping apart all my marines with his mind isn't, though. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Dustin Browder is actual a Protoss spy.
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I like you op, keep fighting the stupidity in units design. Yeah this isn't a simulation game but if it has outright impossible or stupid designs then we should definitely call them out.
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Your best argument is this one:
Supply depot:
Roach cannot burrow-move under it, unless its lowered, in which case they can. Some designer just didn't think this one through.
I LOL'ed hard.
But in all seriousness what video game is like real life. that small .1%. Enjoy the
![[image loading]](http://gifsoup.com/view5/2084577/spongebob-imagination-o.gif)
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On January 07 2012 10:35 UmiNotsuki wrote:
I see all three races as kinda funny because, using technology they've demonstrated having before, all three could break the game completely.
Zerg could make giant armored banelings that have the health of an ultralisk, and the damage and splash radius of a nuke fairly believably given what we've already seen out of them.
Protoss could... fuck, Protoss could do ANYTHING because they've got technology that Terran humans with their relatively advanced technology can't even begin to understand. One could example could be simply giving a BW shield battery wheels and the shield strength of an immortal to make Protoss armies pretty much unkillable.
Terran could just drop tac-nukes orbitally, just as the OP suggested they could do instead of MULE's.
Fuck.
I don't know about the other races but I can confirm the reason why Protoss don't decimate everything with super advanced technology is because they are in compliance with the EPA.
Blowing up planets is not environmentally friendly and neither is strip mining (what the terrans do in every match).
As for the battlefield itself, well protoss executors could overcharge void ray lasers and vaporize entire armies and bases, but the only power source that could deliver enough energy for that is highly pollutant.
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I agree wit the viking. now theyre adding the unnecessary battle hellion when an armored slow moving spread aoe would do better, like a armored bio or something, or, I dunno the firebat!
dustin browder wants this game to be transformers and power rangers (i.e. the giant SUPER unit).
its annoying as balls.
btw, the reaper is a complete carbon copy rip off of the flying jetpack unit from Warhammer40k. It also ha s a uniot that has jetpack, dual pistol, and a grenade/bomb for vs buildings.
no originality, whats new dustin browder.
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Tank:
I have no problems with the tank, except that it seems underpriced for its abilities. But that's another discussion.
Verdict: Believable, realistic, I like this unit
Bullshit.
A tank with two 80mm cannons that invert into itself as the driver rotates the vehicle to the same exact direction that every single siege tank driver in the history of the korpulu sector points their tank before they engage "siege mode" so they can shoot this massive friggin gun that can traverse nigh-instantaneously and land a shot instantly on any target within maximum range without changing the gun's elevation from the constant 40 degrees whether or not the target is 10 feet away from the tank or 5000.
It takes 2 direct hits to kill a random foot soldier with the gun.
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I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree at all. I love to play realistic games, but when I look at sc2 I immediately reject reality and it isn't a problem for me. Games that are unrealistic leave much more to the imagination 
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Is the terran race believable? Wtf?
None of the races are believable.
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This had better be satire.
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the supply depot / roaches thing gave me a good laugh
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EPT
