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Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
January 05 2012 01:46 GMT
#101
On January 05 2012 10:13 Spekulatius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2012 09:37 Myles wrote:
On January 05 2012 09:29 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On January 05 2012 09:26 Djzapz wrote:
On January 05 2012 09:21 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On January 05 2012 07:59 RageOverdose wrote:
On January 05 2012 07:53 Makaveli1 wrote:
On January 05 2012 07:49 Hekisui wrote:
Well only responses from people from NA. It is pretty clear that part of the world is morally degenerated even more than Europe is.


Dude, If somebody was trying to break in your door with a huge ass hunting knife and trying to kill you and your son, and the only way to live would be to shoot him, wouldn't you shoot him? ._____.


I'm fine with the mother's decision, but to play a counter point, she could disable them instead of kill them.


How would she disable them? It's not easy to shoot someone with a shotgun such that you only cripple them, without going too close to them to be safe from the hunting knife. Keep in mind that there were also TWO of them, so something like pepperspray or mace, which would not be very effective anyway, would not have worked at all.

Personally I think I would go for the legs. But IDK what I would do if I were actually in that situation, so I don't blame her.


It's still hard to aim that well in a situation like that. You would probably not have that moment in which you decide to aim for the legs, and would just aim for whatever was easiest to hit, as others have said previously.

You aim for the center of mass, period. If you're shooting a weapon as a civilian it is because you're afraid for your life. You are not trained nor obligated to try and make a non-lethal shot. It's absurd to increase your own at risk in the hope you don't critically wound the person who is trying to at the minimum assault you with a deadly weapon, and potentially murder you.

Not to argue with you, just to clarify this from the point of view of the law because you raise a valid, reasonable point.

It doesn't need to be the same for all countries around the world but most follow the same reasoning: Killing in self-defence - i.e. defending all the goods you have: property, liberty, life, your family, etc - is ultima ratio but it's covered if the circumstances are there.

Generally, one is to consider if a less agressive/defensive measure can be applied: a warning (shot) or a non-lethal reaction can have the same protective outcome. But in a situation like this, judges usually factor in that you might have no time to act less harshly (if the risk of endangering yourself or the baby in that case is too big) or simply that you're too scared to think clearly. In that case, what prevails is the interest of the one who's innocent and not at fault over the one who's deliberately endangering you. There's a threshold of leniency for the defenders as well as an influence of common sense. And the doubt (how the circumstances really were) benefits the person who defends herself.

The aspect of a warning is the only thing in this situation which has any validity imo. The duo was trying to break in for a good 20 minutes and she was on the phone with a dispatcher the whole time. I would think that she would have an opportunity to warn them she has a gun, but at the same time that only increases the odds that they will immediately shoot you if they also have one. In the end, I don't think there is any reason someone should be prohibited from shooting an armed person intruding into their home.
Moderator
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-05 02:11:38
January 05 2012 01:47 GMT
#102
^ Completely agree with you.

Also, it's a woman (and a mother) against 2 men. She ain't gonna overpower them manually. She really didn't have any other reasonable choice.
Always smile~
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-05 02:20:54
January 05 2012 02:13 GMT
#103
In most states (that operate under Castle Doctrine) I believe you don't need to shout any warning. If there are intruders in your house, you can shoot them.

If it was me and I was feeling confident, I would probably shout a warning. A terrified 18-yo mother on the other hard, shouldn't reveal her hand like that. Alerting the scumbags who may have been carrying firearms themselves would have handed the advantage to them.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
ironchef
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Canada1350 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-06 10:17:10
January 06 2012 10:15 GMT
#104
On January 05 2012 11:13 ahswtini wrote:
In most states (that operate under Castle Doctrine) I believe you don't need to shout any warning. If there are intruders in your house, you can shoot them.

If it was me and I was feeling confident, I would probably shout a warning. A terrified 18-yo mother on the other hard, shouldn't reveal her hand like that. Alerting the scumbags who may have been carrying firearms themselves would have handed the advantage to them.


Agreed. The temptation is to look with hindsight and analyze in a vacuum, saying she had this this and that option, but did she really? Average person with no crisis experience or training, you can't expect them make 100% tactical and thoughtout moves. Hell, even trained cops overreact under pressure.

I give her a lot of leeway, and this falls comfortably within that. I also think breaking into a house with a weapon is pretty much as far as you can let anything go. Sure, maybe he was bluffing and not really a killer, but from the POV of the victim, you can't afford to wait and see how it plays out.
“Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also.” - Marcus Aurelius
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
January 07 2012 00:28 GMT
#105
Oklahoma, of course xD She did the right thing in my opinion. How can you not resist marrying women like that.
XK ßubonic
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