EDIT: This was the video in question that made me think of this post in the first place. Found a YouTube link
Booting up my 3DS, I checked the e-shop to see if anything's been added to the (dismal) virtual console library. I stumble upon a video titled "NintendoTV: December 2011." It was a video previewing Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7 and showcasing some of the "best Mario Kart players in the country" in what looked like a competitive game event.
Now, excuse my rudeness here, but Mario Kart is NOT an e-sport or competitive game and it shocks me that it's even played competitively. I can give many reasons why it would need rigorous revisions before it can even be considered one.
1. Lightweight characters are ALWAYS better. There is clear imbalance in the character department.
This video shows some tests and experiments done in Mario Kart 64. What was determined was that lightweights:
- Had the best acceleration rate (which doesn't really matter too much in a straight up drag race because smart people would start the race by executing a boost. - Had the highest top speed, contrary to what the manual said. - Performed the tighest turns in corners (and hence had the best handling.)
I think by later Mario Kart games, this philosophy changed a lot as vehicles can be greatly customised and stats have a greater effect, although a trend noticed is that heavyweight with a large top speed often has atrocious handling which counteracts their high top speed with the constant need to re-accelerate.
Out of all the Mario Kart games, DS was probably the best at resolving this imbalance as once you unlocked all the characters and karts, you could play as any character in any kart of their choice, even if it's another character's.
It makes you think. Why was ROB the most popular character in MKDS? Because he had good acceleration, a decent top speed and adequate handling whilst being quite lightweight. He was like the jack of all trades.
2. Mario Kart is based on luck
For Mario Kart to be a successful e-sport, several amendments need to be made to the core game:
- Luck needs to play less of a role in the game, especially when it comes to the RNG factor of obtaining powerups. For example, the Blue Shell may sometimes not appear in a race, while sometimes it can be introduced 3+ fucking times in a race. - Highly imbalanced powerups need to be removed (or greatly nerfed) like the Blue Shell, 7, Starman, Blooper, Shrink Ray or Bullet Bill. - Mario Kart should go the Diddy Kong Racing route and have weak powerups that can be stacked to create more powerful powerups, i.e. if you got 3 Blue balloons in a row you'd get a gigantic rocket boost.
3. Mario Kart's courses need a total overhaul.
I'll give a few examples from Mario Kart 7. There are several stats that govern the performance of a character and his/her vehicle:
- Speed - The top speed of the vehicle - Acceleration - The time it takes for the vehicle to achieve top speed - Handling - How quickly the vehicle can turn - Weight - How heavy the vehicle is. Heavier vehicles would knock a lighter one around in a collsion. - Off-road - How well the car performs off-road.
Point is, most of these stats are quite redundant because:
1. You'd have little chance of hitting the top speed on most tracks with low acceleration. Even say.... snaking with turning boosts would become hell on a car with poor handling. 2. You need somewhat decent handling in order to traverse tight corners without smashing into a wall or ending up off-road. 3. Very few courses have off-road segments, or even ones that are remotely worth using. For example, most circuits have a lot of grass or dirt or sand that would slow you down but very little reason to actaully use it.. 4. Even with 5/6 Off-road, a car will perform like utter shite off the track, going from "as fast as a trike" to "as fast as a riding lawn mover"
Point is, if they want the game to be balanced around these governing stats for instance, they'd need to:
- Not make these stats useless (Off-road, I'm looking at you.) - Make sure each track has a section where you can explore these stats i.e. an off-road shortcut, a long straight, a section that requires great cornering skills.
Mario Kart may not be an esport, but it is useful as a sobriety test. At my apartment parties we never gave back keys till you could display Mario Kart competence, although a few hours of drunk Mario Karting can lead to a desire to powerslide around turns in real life. Be ware of that!
The items aren't completely random. It depends on what place you are in. If you are in last you have a much greater chance to get a good item to give you a chance to get back in the lead while if you are in first you have relatively zero chance to get a blue shell.
I am surprised YOU are even considering Mario Kart an ESPORT. Competitive gaming existed LONG before ESPORTS did; the fact that someone playing a game competitively on TV shouldn't offend you to the point where you give pause and write a blog on the internet about it.
Furthermore, Nintendo is ass-backwards when it comes to competitive gaming, let alone ESPORTS. Any tournament that Nintendo attempts to pull is basically publicity stunt for them to sell more games, with the added bonus of "having something fun for the fans to do."
Mario Kart 64 had some elements of a competitive game that made it playable enough to run tournaments on occasion. (Why do you think so much data was crunched?) After some vacillation in early sequels, Nintendo removed/changed these elements to make it less viable as a competitive game. But people will still competitively play Mario Kart because of the name brand, signature mechanics, and the fact that most serious competitive gamers stick to one game/series.
On January 04 2012 05:56 Yergidy wrote: The items aren't completely random. It depends on what place you are in. If you are in last you have a much greater chance to get a good item to give you a chance to get back in the lead while if you are in first you have relatively zero chance to get a blue shell.
Even then, it's still placing all your odds in the RNG hat. You can sometimes have races with 0 blue shells and races with loads of them. Another example of imbalance is the 7 powerup (EXTREMELY rare, probably seen once every few races) which a last place player can easily use to get an instant massive lead.
What makes the Blue Shell worse is that it's unavoidable and if it hits you at an unlucky time (i.e. going across a loop or on a glider section), you go straight off the track, and get respawned in last place.
Think about it. Did Flash get where he was today because he luckily picked up a load of volatile powerups? Of course not because Brood War simply doesn't have this.
The powerups are the bigger problem in my experience, they make it way too volatile. I figured it was obvious that it wasn't an esport, I was kinda expecting a sarcastic OP.
On January 04 2012 05:58 d3_crescentia wrote: I am surprised YOU are even considering Mario Kart an ESPORT. Competitive gaming existed LONG before ESPORTS did; the fact that someone playing a game competitively on TV shouldn't offend you to the point where you give pause and write a blog on the internet about it.
Furthermore, Nintendo is ass-backwards when it comes to competitive gaming, let alone ESPORTS. Any tournament that Nintendo attempts to pull is basically publicity stunt for them to sell more games, with the added bonus of "having something fun for the fans to do."
Mario Kart 64 had some elements of a competitive game that made it playable enough to run tournaments on occasion. (Why do you think so much data was crunched?) After some vacillation in early sequels, Nintendo removed/changed these elements to make it less viable as a competitive game. But people will still competitively play Mario Kart because of the name brand, signature mechanics, and the fact that most serious competitive gamers stick to one game/series.
Their only real successful competitive games have been Super Smash Bros Melee and Super Smash Bros Brawl, and even then a few things in Brawl have defined imbalance.
On January 04 2012 05:59 AnxiousHippo wrote: The powerups are the bigger problem in my experience, they make it way too volatile. I figured it was obvious that it wasn't an esport, I was kinda expecting a sarcastic OP.
This was more sarcasm. It is obviously not an e-sport, or even a good competitive game for that matter.
Nintendo isn't clueless about competitive gaming. They actually act effectively against it, and purposefully.. The change from Smash Brothers Melee to Brawl clearly illustrates this. They take a game that was being played as a viable E-Sport, slap in RNG based tripping for no reason, and remove all of the skillful mechanics.
Why would they do this? Because they don't want the E-Sports crowd, they want casuals.
My guess is that there will never be another nintendo title worthy of E-Sports status. Casuals don't like mechanics that strong players can abuse to win easily. Therefore, Nintendo will level the playing field to cater to them.
This all depends on your definition of sport and esport.
I think good sports have fun, effective rules/mechanics. Good esports, we can say the same.
But if a mariocart scene comparable to say, the sc2 one, developed, with lots of tournaments for money, events with spectators, etc, it would be an esport. The points made in the OP are more a description of why this is unlikely to happen than proof that this isn't an esport. But... that's not a big deal.
I think you went way too in-depth to call Mario Kart 64 imbalanced. Imbalanced doesn't mean it isn't an esport, it just means the game is poorly made to be an esport.
I don't think Mario Kart is an esport though. If they have competitions and people watch then it's an esport.
On January 04 2012 06:13 DJEtterStyle wrote: 1. Terran is by far the easiest race to play. The low level of effort required to be competitive with Terran is a clear imbalance.
2. Fog of war means that StarCraft: Brood War is too luck-based to be an e-sport.
3. StarCraft: Brood War's maps need a total overhaul. Many blatantly favor one race over the other two.
What? wat are you even talking about 1) at the highest level it's clear that the game is fairly balanced 2) there's a difference between "incomplete information" (fog of war) and "dice are literally electronically being rolled, and sometimes drastically alter the course of the game" (blue shells, bullet bills) 3) Maybe this is actually the case;; but remaking maps can be done by the community, whereas the fundamental balance issues of mariokart can only be fixed by the game maker.
Now, excuse my rudeness here, but Mario Kart is NOT an e-sport or competitive game and it shocks me that it's even played competitively
It's not a competitive game, but it is a competition, an athletic test of various competitors aiming to win and perfecting their ability to execute the best turns, use of times and navigation of course. Just because it isn't a competitive game doesn't mean it can't be played with a competitive mind or desire to win. That's the basis of competition.
There can be "best Mario Kart" players because the game revolves around trying to be the best at something (and is determined by beating everyone who plays against you).
That being said, despite the imbalances, doesn't necessarily mean Mario Kart can't strive to make a legitimate competition. This is similar to Super Smash Bros. which has imbalances or at least geared towards casual play, but has a following that yearns and strive for a competitive nature of the game.
Bottom-line: let it go and let it be what it wants to be. There's no point in putting it down or ensuring that everyone knows, based on your opinion, that the game can't be something it wants to be if it has the following to do.
and for the record: Yoshi with the Egg > ROB in Mario Kart DS
Edit: are you going to tell me Pokemon isn't competitive because it has some luck-based factors and major imbalances (rofl, Pearl, Diamond, Platinum). You'd be very surprised at just how much mind-games there are in that game and how competitive it is.
On January 04 2012 06:13 DJEtterStyle wrote: 1. Terran is by far the easiest race to play. The low level of effort required to be competitive with Terran is a clear imbalance.
2. Fog of war means that StarCraft: Brood War is too luck-based to be an e-sport.
3. StarCraft: Brood War's maps need a total overhaul. Many blatantly favor one race over the other two.
Those are terrible analogies to prove any point lol...
You obviously know that BW has historically been one of the most balanced games ever made, whereas light-weight classes are clearly superior in Mario Cart. Fog of war is equally distributed to both players, whereas items are luck-based and screw over players with advantages. (Can you imagine how long TvT would take if any advantage turned against you?) Many maps do favor one race over another, but there are many statistically balanced maps for competition to thrive on.
On January 04 2012 06:13 DJEtterStyle wrote: 1. Terran is by far the easiest race to play. The low level of effort required to be competitive with Terran is a clear imbalance.
2. Fog of war means that StarCraft: Brood War is too luck-based to be an e-sport.
3. StarCraft: Brood War's maps need a total overhaul. Many blatantly favor one race over the other two.
Those are terrible analogies to prove any point lol...
You obviously know that BW has historically been one of the most balanced games ever made, whereas light-weight classes are clearly superior in Mario Cart. Fog of war is equally distributed to both players, whereas items are luck-based and screw over players with advantages. (Can you imagine how long TvT would take if any advantage turned against you?) Many maps do favor one race over another, but there are many statistically balanced maps for competition to thrive on.
I'm actually sad knowing that that post was written by someone who was once in charge of the power ranks here on TL
Actually... a lot of the smaller characters like toad would get owned by bowser if you controlled him correctly, you can hit the speed boost or just hit the Eee's and slam into him and he will spin out very easily, as will a lot of the other smaller players, so to say the smaller characters are imbalanced when they give you tons of powerups as well on top of the fact that you can SLAM into people with the bigger characters, just makes you flat out wrong. I was really good at Mario Kart 64, I played it for years.
The only problem is that it's based on luck. I 100% agree.
Nintendo can make the adjustments however if we don't have that factor where your coming last; how are you gonna catch up now with your bullet bill? Its quite impossible from being 12th to first if there are pro players.
Nintendo should easily be able to nerf some stuff so no problem there though
On January 04 2012 06:13 DJEtterStyle wrote: 1. Terran is by far the easiest race to play. The low level of effort required to be competitive with Terran is a clear imbalance.
2. Fog of war means that StarCraft: Brood War is too luck-based to be an e-sport.
3. StarCraft: Brood War's maps need a total overhaul. Many blatantly favor one race over the other two.
Those are terrible analogies to prove any point lol...
NO KIDDING?
The point is that trying to discredit any game/sport is idiotic, as are the OP's arguments. Good lord. Read between the lines the tiniest bit.
On January 04 2012 07:12 GGzerG wrote: Actually... a lot of the smaller characters like toad would get owned by bowser if you controlled him correctly, you can hit the speed boost or just hit the Eee's and slam into him and he will spin out very easily, as will a lot of the other smaller players, so to say the smaller characters are imbalanced when they give you tons of powerups as well on top of the fact that you can SLAM into people with the bigger characters, just makes you flat out wrong. I was really good at Mario Kart 64, I played it for years.
You didn't watch the video, did you? With the items, you have a possibility to catch-up, but straight-up driving between two equally good drivers makes Yoshi, Peach and Toad way ahead of Bowser.
It's designed so that when you play it with friends, the luck component makes it so that it's exciting and not stressful since anyone can win and losing doesn't necessarily make you feel you're inferior to the winner. So people can just sit back and laugh whatever the result is.
It's just not really made for seriously competitive play and that is its STRENGTH. Even if you like something else in your games.
Some factors that determine whether a game can be an esport: -Size of player base that want to play it competitively -Support from developers -Prizes available -Number of people wanting to watch it being played
The imbalances in the game and amount of luck don't matter much in the equation. As in, they only factor in determining the amount of people that want to play/watch the game. If enough people want to play it competitively and Nintendo had any interest whatsoever in making it an esport, it could be. There is no 'quality control' for esports. Now you may think it would be a crap game for an esport, but that's just your opinion.
Your first point is invalid, balance has no relevance on whether something deserves to be called an eSport, pretty much all fighting games have characters that are clearly better than others.
On January 04 2012 06:13 DJEtterStyle wrote: 1. Terran is by far the easiest race to play. The low level of effort required to be competitive with Terran is a clear imbalance.
2. Fog of war means that StarCraft: Brood War is too luck-based to be an e-sport.
3. StarCraft: Brood War's maps need a total overhaul. Many blatantly favor one race over the other two.
Those are terrible analogies to prove any point lol...
NO KIDDING?
The point is that trying to discredit any game/sport is idiotic, as are the OP's arguments. Good lord. Read between the lines the tiniest bit.
Are you kidding me?
Maybe next time you try to undermine someone's assertion that shitty game A isn't competitive, you don't use the premier e-sport and instead use shitty game B that actually is competitive. Making senseless claims when the OP is using straight facts is ridiculous. Use your head the tiniest bit.
From what I understand, Kart Rider/Pop kart/whatever has esports events in China and South Korea and its kind of like Mario Kart cept Speed Format brings the game into a "better" more "skill based" format.
On January 04 2012 08:03 Fortissimo wrote: From what I understand, Kart Rider/Pop kart/whatever has esports events in China and South Korea and its kind of like Mario Kart cept Speed Format brings the game into a "better" more "skill based" format.
Yup, but they had to minimize the extend of luck in gameplay ( no items in competitive tournaments ) so its less like mario cart and more like any other racing games.
I think what the OP is doing is try to introduce concepts and groundwork to a rational discussion of what it takes to balance and design a game and its gameplay well, without invoking sc2, so that people can discuss and learn without being flaming tards who go "RACE X IMBA!" and getting the blog closed.
what a narrow mindedview you have. If you dont think mariokart cannot be a competitive racing game then you probably havent tried getting on the time triaks leaderboards.
On January 04 2012 11:07 T0fuuu wrote: what a narrow mindedview you have. If you dont think mariokart cannot be a competitive racing game then you probably havent tried getting on the time triaks leaderboards.
That is but one small aspect of the game that doesn't really utilise the full mechanics of the game (i.e. you are only given three boost mushrooms per run.) Plus a leaderboard isn't exactly a race.
Mario kart is based on luck? Poker has luck. Starcraft has luck. Street fighter has luck. Pretty much everything in life involves luck in one form or another.
Not all games need to be esports, it can still be played competitively, just not as seriously. I played Mario Kart Wii in what I would consider to be a casually competitive way, played on a team against other top teams but pretty much just for fun, knew it wasn't a legitimate esport.
EPT
