EPT
(also linked in OP).
avilo theory/metagame analysis videos - Page 3
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
(also linked in OP). | ||
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ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + BOB THE BUILDER <3 | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 20 2012 12:59 vileIllusion wrote: Avilo, what is the best and most efficient way to set up turrets around my entire base?? How many sensor towers required per base. + Show Spoiler + BOB THE BUILDER <3 lmao yeah there are actually optimal ways that people don't ever pay attention to...that might actually be a good idea for another video haha. | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
The strategy is interesting. Basically turtle and sit back and nuke abuse with bio support drops while teching to mass BCs. There's a few things that I want to ask about. I know that you have way way way more in game experience than me and are just a better player so sorry if I don't understand why you do something. I personally don't feel that BCs are cost effective. With the combination of Stalkers which do I think 4 damage per attack extra vs BCs, blink, templar feed backs, archons requiring 2 yamatos that BCs can get beat early on. I guess this is all irrelevant if you get some sick EMPs off on their army before engaging, however you can say that about any Protoss army vs Terran army as long as you get EMPs off first the Protoss army is much weaker. I agree about your sitting back part. Terran's do need to sit back more and strategically dismantle their Protoss enemy until its clear that you're ahead. I hope your videos don't turn into "How to play 45 min games vs all races than auto attack to win" Because that was what that video was basically. I also like how you completely shut down Warp Prism harass. Solid sensor towers and mass turrets. You have to look at the Turrets as an investment. When I play Mass Mutas I have no problems putting down 6-7 turrets because I know my CC/SCVs won't be harassed. It's worth it in my opinion at my skill level (mid-high masters). The 10-15 zealot warp in which makes you kyte all the way back to your base is so true. I can't tell you how many times I would be 200/200 vs a Protoss and win the fight with like 10 hurt marauders left, and his next warp in would just defeat me. It actually pisses me off so bad. This brings me to what I am suggesting you try out. Blue Flame Hellions. First off, don't even make marines. Late game vs Col's, Storm, Chargelots, etc.. Marines just melt. Marauders don't kill chargelots, but they also don't die instantly vs those thinks that I just mentioned. There was a point in your game where you have a nice MMM army + 5-6 ghosts + 7-8 vikings vs his Cols, Stalkers, sentry, templar, and mass Chargelot. You could win that fight fairly clean with solid EMP's and good positioing/micro. Now if you traded in your 20 marines for 10 blue flame hellions? Emp the chargelots, send in the BFH's to do some attacking/kyting and destroy most of his Chargelots, then just auto attack with your Marauder, Viking. I'm working on a strategy where my production buildings are like 7-8 brac with tech labs, 2 factors with reactors for hellions only, and 2-3 starports (1 reactor 1-2 tech labs). With these production buildings you can successfully do this: If you see mass Zealot, pump hellion heavy. (these can also be used for drops) and also sending 3-4 hellions in to pick off slow ass templars before a fight is very cost effective. If you see mass Stalker/Cols just go mass Marauder and Viking If you see mass Immortals because of you going for heavy BFH's then pump some banshee from those 2 tech lab ports. I really feel that gives you a variety of attacking options and gives you the path to have all of your tech routes open to give fast tech switches vs the Protoss player. Using Hellions is also easier to send the group of 10-12 of them back to your base and shut down the warp prism harass. They do decent vs Stalkers as well in small numbers if Microed decently. The only thing I'm worried about with my strategy is early Void Ray so I still make marines early but shut them down fast. I feel like from watching your vods that you're too stuck on going "either" just Bio/Air, or just Mech. Blizzard is really balancing Terran to have to include a solid combination. BFH's rape every gate way unit besides Stalker. However there's some statistical number out there that shows BFHs can be cost effective vs Stalkers. However you don't have to do that, just make Marauder. I've also seen some cute "Air Terran" strats that go 1-2 Raven for PPD and to see the Observers, pick off the Obs with viking, then go in with the cloak banshee and just win. I don't see a need for your 45 minute turtle style, wait for 20 BCs, then auto attack. Plus that player seemed really terrible to be honest. Have you tried your BC strat vs bigger name Protoss players? The point of my strat is mass up on some Hellions, force Stalker (which is good because), then you get marauder and kill the Stalker, VIking for cols//and.or//Banshee for Immos. What do you think? Thanks, -Nizzy | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On January 20 2012 12:16 avilo wrote: Hey guys, I just made another video, this time discussing Terran versus Protoss late game that everyone right now is having a lot of trouble with from bronze all the way to pro level. Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TODqH96J-DQ&context=C30d7f91ADOEgsToPDskLSKqr2kezVRx2B0MGELTpX (also linked in OP). you should make a new blog since you made a a new video, that way it gets more views and etc. It was a pretty cool game! Also, since you talk about beign defensive a lot, I feel like it's not completely correct, I think that you can engage a Protoss even when he's maxed, because if you both lose your army he loses more money, you just gotta play defensive after the engagement and you gotta engange on his side of the map in that scenario, because you don't want to trade armies completely on your side of the map (until you have the planetaries and stuff up,) because then he'll just warp in zealots and kill your shit like you said, but if you engage on his side of the map, you can kill a lot of his gas-expensive units, and regroup back on your side, so that if he attacks with zealots you have more stuff. And also that sometimes protosses (like the guy you played) will be very greedy and once they're near maxed spend all their money on nexuses without getting enough gateways, and in that case he actually can't warp in enough stuff, so in that scenario if you can get a good engagements you can just win straight up because he won't have enough warp-ins to deflect the remainder of your bio, so that's another thing to watch out for imo. Awesome video though, make a new thread imo | ||
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Christolight
United States46 Posts
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PuLsai
England4 Posts
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
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Slemp
Germany31 Posts
My Question is, how i would do that style on other Maps, especially on Tal'Darim or Antigua (how to defend 4th and 5th base?). The thing is, on Shakuras you can split the map very well cause of the small path P has to come through, while on Tal'Darim P can simply run around your Planetary setup (would be REALLY expensive to cut the Map in Half with a row of Planetaries). Without having the P go thourgh this massive defensive line in that spot, he can steamroll you from somewhere else. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On June 19 2012 11:40 avilo wrote: Posted a new video discussing current Terran/TvZ balance issues that need to be addressed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duhtW0IkTr8&feature=plcp Did you completely miss LuckyFool's thread? Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=345762 | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On June 19 2012 13:59 ninazerg wrote: Did you completely miss LuckyFool's thread? Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=345762 I mentioned luckyfool's blog in my video too lol. Did you watch the video? -_- (me thinks not) | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On June 19 2012 13:54 Nizzy wrote: Can't remember if it was DK or DB but one of them said that they know Terran only has a Mid-game window to win games and that at the moment they are okay with it. Its kind of total bullshit, I really think nothing will be done in WOL. They didn't just say "we are ok with it at the moment" . They didn't even acknowledge it as a problem. In their eyes, it's perfectly OK for a race to have a 5 minute timing window to win, and if they don't they get a huge disadvantage through no fault of their own. With that approach, it might actually NEVER get addressed. This is just flat out bad game design. Imagine if someone starting taking chess pieces off your board after 10 turns, just because you were playing black pieces? Would that be fair at all? | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On June 19 2012 14:50 Sadistx wrote: They didn't just say "we are ok with it at the moment" . They didn't even acknowledge it as a problem. In their eyes, it's perfectly OK for a race to have a 5 minute timing window to win, and if they don't they get a huge disadvantage through no fault of their own. With that approach, it might actually NEVER get addressed. This is just flat out bad game design. Imagine if someone starting taking chess pieces off your board after 10 turns, just because you were playing black pieces? Would that be fair at all? you don't have to tell me this Sadist, however thanks for correcting me. I agree terrible game design. You know, I feel like nobody questions Browder. Yes, he has a lot of RTS experience, from a worst RTS game (sorry CnC cant touch SC:BW)... Its very possible he's taking the game in the wrong direction. I FUCKING HATE HIS LOGIC. No browder noob players dont want noob maps. They want to play on the exact same maps as the pros. Not fucking slag pits. What makes the game sick is "basic units" and then the pros turning those basic units into gosu things. Not fucking units like the viper that can pull free 6 thors from your army before the big fight even starts. Just stupid shit all around. ----- A lot of people are saying ravens, cant wait til ravens get nerfed. | ||
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
Ravens won't get nerfed because SM is shit. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
i actually think the warhound especially (and the battle hellion a bit) helps the TvP late-game issues, of course i haven't played any HotS and im in no way good or knowledgeable enough to truly comment on it, but it seems like it could help a lot just based on the specs of the new units. but i absolutely agree that the HSM isn't really a viable option against late-game zerg because (again MKP's gsl games) Symbol, I believe, was just splitting his units, the HSM didn't do anything. granted, Symbol is really good, but i think that is kind of irrelevant because every pro should have enough APM to split against the HSM when a plat terran player like me can do it (i've tried). i actually think the ghost nerf was just too much. now, maybe the ghost was stronger than it should be, i don't know, but if you think about it, it wasn't something that was "a-movey", snipe actually did get exponentially better with better micro (which is something i think is good to have with units.) they basically destroyed the ghost as what it was and turned it into a purely anti-caster/protoss-shield-killer unit, which im not a big fan of. both the infestor and the high templar are actually battle units, not just anti-casters. i guess a patch to the raven would help, but i think the raven's "proper" (for lack of a better term) position is as a supporting unit, not a straight up battle unit (if this makes any sense at all, probably not.) what im wondering about is if terran's were given a more solid late-game compostion, or units or strategy or whatever, then would reversing the queen buff really be necessary? it seems to me that the new queen helps zergs (a lot) in the early-mid game, and that it only really affects the late-game based on the fact that Terran already has weak late game and now it's super hard to do good damage in the early game so you can "balance" the late-game weaknesses and strengths. if terran early game is "too strong" (i don't know if it is or not, im on the fence kind of) without the queen buff, than im thinking that they should keep the queen buff, but just tweak terran a bit for a stronger mid-late game so that they can hold off zerg pushes, or maybe even tweak our early game econ/unit strength so that terran's can respond to both pressure and greed in kind. this is rambling though and i don't know if it makes any sense. im glad i watched the TvZ video though cause it gave me a new perspective on your opinions and i actually pretty much agree with everything you were saying. GG. pre-post-edit: oh wow that was a lot longer than i thought it would be... don't worry if you don't read this monstrosity, i doubt that i would if i hadn't written it. post-post edit: oh and i actually agree now that they should have let you on SoTG (but that's another topic i guess) now that i've seen the video, because you actually are pretty articulate and straightforward when discussing balance. just wanted to throw that out there. last edit i swear: i also forgot to ask, and ive always meant to ask a good terran this: what do you think about late-game nukes? viable, not viable, useless, perhaps more useful if the ghost was better, or what? maybe im just dumb, but iv always wondered why there never seems to be nukes going off except in lategame TvT seige lines. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
OP is updated as well.Thoughts on HOTS Beta after playing Day1: | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
HOTS TvP mech is now viable | ||
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