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I've been on the verge of high masters for a while (a long while I would say), I'm always top 25 in my division and my record is pretty good.. but when I get matched against top 8 master players, specifically in PvP, I start to go on losing streaks and fall back down to non top 8 MMR.
I'm wondering if it's just because I'm not playing enough, or if there is other things I should be doing more of. I have taken little breaks from the game, last one was probably a month ago but in the past month I would say I've played a lot.
People say to just "play more" which I've been doing the past month, specifically the past week I've played probably as much as a pro does but when I play this much I just get on tilt and stop improving. So I wonder if I should be doing other things to break into high high masters and beyind.
So basically, should I be "Playing More" like IdrA recommends to aspiring pros, or should I be studying / advancing in the metagame by:
-watching more instead of playing so much. Studying builds / replays, watching pro games (which I try to do, but lately it seems like protoss rarely win in GSL / other pro tournaments) etc
-Buying coaching. I do not know who I would buy from, nor where I would buy it. But I think it may help iron out of the less obvious (to me) mistakes I make, such as not scouting particular things and not pressuring at the right time
-Joining a team. Something i've never done, but I bet it could help tremendously IF the team has solid and similar minded practice partners. No idea what the demand is though for a highish master protoss these days on a solid team, the good ones only seem to want top 8 masters and GM...
I obviously only have so much time. So in one day I could play 30 games or I could play half that, and spend the rest watching replays and pro games.
Just looking for some outside opinions. I've been stuck at my current MMR for a long while and figure I should take a "step" back and see what else I could do to improve even further.
 
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
If you heard they say "Practice Makes Perfect", you're wrong-- what they really said was "Practice of a given quality will raise you to said quality."
This is to say, you can spam ladder games 10 hours a day and improve slowly, or you can do it and improve quickly. After every game I lose, I stop and review the replay (or if that will make me mad, I save the replay and review it at the end of the laddering session. I see what I did wrong, what knowledge I had, how I could have gotten more, etc etc. I learn from it.
Basically, you watched Samurai X / Rurouni Kenshin up through the end of Season 2, right?
+ Show Spoiler [no] +
+ Show Spoiler [yes] +Ok so basically Shishi-oh's thing is that once he's seen a stylistic attack once (such as Saito's Gatotsu or Kenshin's Ryu Tsui Sen), he has sufficiently analyzed the attack such that it no longer works against him. Just that one instant is enough for him to know how it works, how to counter it, etc. This is how you have to be! Every time you lose a game, watch the replay and be like Shishi-oh. Don't be like a mummy or whatever-- be like, totally balling and say "I now know how not to lose in that exact fashion ever again"
That way, your practice will be more effective and effecient.
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I've had the same problem, I was starting to break into high masters as well before it was time to study for exams. No doubt I'll make another run for a top Masters spot in Season 5.
I have a very limited amount of time to play (like usually around an hour, rarely 2+) so I spend a lot of time just thinking about my mistakes and trying to think outside the box when it comes to my decision making. After doing that for a long time its kind of something I excel at, but what I really needed was more experience (to see all the wonderful all-ins people are capable of) and just general practice to have better mechanics.
In your case it might be the opposite. Maybe you should be spending more time religiously reexamining your game and finding EXACTLY what is causing you to lose. Then try hammering out those mistakes so that you will at the very least lose one less game then you would usually lose on a typical day of laddering, because that would be a sign of progress. Being able to examine your game and adapting in order to come out with a win is a very very important skill that every overlooks because there is so much emphasis on "Play More, Macro Better"- etc.
If you have the money it's none of our business with what you do with it. If in your mind you think its worth it, than go for it. Personally any coach that charges upwards of $40+/hr is just a bit too much because there will always be better things you can spend that money on. But if you do want to get a coach, make sure to have replays, and sets of questions for your coach ready and get the most out of the session. Consider finding players to practice against you while your coach watches, just make the most out of the session because there is a reason why they are GM and you are not- you want to know exactly what those reasons are by the end of the session.
Get a team. Do it. If you really want to get better you need practice partners. Swallow your pride and look for players better than you. If you're winning too many games in practice then there's a good chance its bad practice unless you're doing something on your own during the session. I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to this in all honesty. I REALLY want to ask a GM for a few practice games to see how I perform, because the replays with those games are invaluable to your cause in becoming a better gamer. But I'm too shy and afraid they'll be like "lawl who da fuck r u, noob" ;_;
I was lucky enough to face a GM in a tourney in a Bo3, I studied the crap out of the replays and learned sooo much about how inadequate I was in terms of game sense and macro.
I hope that helps. It seems like there's always going to be big obstacles for untalented players like us, but once we get through them it'll be alllll worth it 
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In terms of coaching, maybe you could get coaching from the guys from Infinity Seven?
http://infinityseven.net/coaching
Getting coaching from isTime seems like a good idea.
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Blazinghand your reference is fckin amazing lol <3
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On December 20 2011 07:20 cmen15 wrote:
Blazinghand your reference is fckin amazing lol <3
Thanks! It's also what I do; except for when I'm in a tournament and basically don't have time, I go and get all up in those replays. Even if it's a mechanical problem, this sort of thing helps to identify it.
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I hear you man, over the last few months I have been grinding out a TON of games, but never really getting beyond the low-mid masters MMR. I started to slow down and take a more critical look at my practice methods/mindset and realized how inefficient mass-laddering can be. My old mindset was to ladder a ton, and not be afraid of trying out new builds or tactics, and eventually I would glean a ton of random facts that would make me a stronger player. However, since there are so many variables involved in this method, it's really not possible to learn very much by playing this way.
I think the last month of practice for me has been more productive than the last 3-4 months of laddering, since I've been practicing ONE BUILD at a time per matchup (yeah, it's not just advice for silver leaguers), you will begin to understand the very subtle mechanics of your builds (exactly when to chrono what buildings, when to cut probes, what to scout, etc). Additionally, I've been prioritizing custom practice sessions with my friends who are better than me (high masters) which is nice because they can give you some valuable insights and you can test your build against anything you are concerned with.
I guess coaching would be a viable option if you have more money than time, but it's probably more important to find a good clan or community to practice with.
As for watching streams/pro matches... I think they are valuable if you are trying to find a new style to copy, but in general I don't think spending more than an hour a day watching streams is much beyond entertainment :/
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On December 20 2011 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:If you heard they say "Practice Makes Perfect", you're wrong-- what they really said was "Practice of a given quality will raise you to said quality." This is to say, you can spam ladder games 10 hours a day and improve slowly, or you can do it and improve quickly. After every game I lose, I stop and review the replay (or if that will make me mad, I save the replay and review it at the end of the laddering session. I see what I did wrong, what knowledge I had, how I could have gotten more, etc etc. I learn from it. Basically, you watched Samurai X / Rurouni Kenshin up through the end of Season 2, right? + Show Spoiler [no] ++ Show Spoiler [yes] +Ok so basically Shishi-oh's thing is that once he's seen a stylistic attack once (such as Saito's Gatotsu or Kenshin's Ryu Tsui Sen), he has sufficiently analyzed the attack such that it no longer works against him. Just that one instant is enough for him to know how it works, how to counter it, etc. This is how you have to be! Every time you lose a game, watch the replay and be like Shishi-oh. Don't be like a mummy or whatever-- be like, totally balling and say "I now know how not to lose in that exact fashion ever again" That way, your practice will be more effective and effecient.
This is an excellent reference.
I love it. Hunter X coulnt have come at a better time,
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On December 20 2011 08:07 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:If you heard they say "Practice Makes Perfect", you're wrong-- what they really said was "Practice of a given quality will raise you to said quality." This is to say, you can spam ladder games 10 hours a day and improve slowly, or you can do it and improve quickly. After every game I lose, I stop and review the replay (or if that will make me mad, I save the replay and review it at the end of the laddering session. I see what I did wrong, what knowledge I had, how I could have gotten more, etc etc. I learn from it. Basically, you watched Samurai X / Rurouni Kenshin up through the end of Season 2, right? + Show Spoiler [no] ++ Show Spoiler [yes] +Ok so basically Shishi-oh's thing is that once he's seen a stylistic attack once (such as Saito's Gatotsu or Kenshin's Ryu Tsui Sen), he has sufficiently analyzed the attack such that it no longer works against him. Just that one instant is enough for him to know how it works, how to counter it, etc. This is how you have to be! Every time you lose a game, watch the replay and be like Shishi-oh. Don't be like a mummy or whatever-- be like, totally balling and say "I now know how not to lose in that exact fashion ever again" That way, your practice will be more effective and effecient. This is an excellent reference. I love it. Hunter X coulnt have come at a better time,
Believe it or not that way of thinking is a lot harder to do than you might think. But of course we're not samurais who have spent our entire lives living by the sword... or are we? @_@
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No point in 'breaking' into high masters really. Go for GM or just play casually like me. I was top 3-5 for the first 1-2 seasons. It wasn't really worth it. I couldn't get into GM so I just play casually now for fun. No point in stressing yourself out.
Sometimes it's about talent. I've heard Stephano plays 3 hrs and he's one of the best EU GM's. If you don't have the talent to become the best, you're kinda wasting your time trying and still being mediocre. Better to play SC as a hobby and find something more productive to invest your time in.
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On December 20 2011 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:If you heard they say "Practice Makes Perfect", you're wrong-- what they really said was "Practice of a given quality will raise you to said quality." This is to say, you can spam ladder games 10 hours a day and improve slowly, or you can do it and improve quickly. After every game I lose, I stop and review the replay (or if that will make me mad, I save the replay and review it at the end of the laddering session. I see what I did wrong, what knowledge I had, how I could have gotten more, etc etc. I learn from it. Basically, you watched Samurai X / Rurouni Kenshin up through the end of Season 2, right? + Show Spoiler [no] ++ Show Spoiler [yes] +Ok so basically Shishi-oh's thing is that once he's seen a stylistic attack once (such as Saito's Gatotsu or Kenshin's Ryu Tsui Sen), he has sufficiently analyzed the attack such that it no longer works against him. Just that one instant is enough for him to know how it works, how to counter it, etc. This is how you have to be! Every time you lose a game, watch the replay and be like Shishi-oh. Don't be like a mummy or whatever-- be like, totally balling and say "I now know how not to lose in that exact fashion ever again" That way, your practice will be more effective and effecient.
You can actually add more to that, if you mass ladder its just going over a limit you can actually benefit from, and you will spontaneously combust.. just like....
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 20 2011 10:25 vnlegend wrote:
No point in 'breaking' into high masters really. Go for GM or just play casually like me. I was top 3-5 for the first 1-2 seasons. It wasn't really worth it. I couldn't get into GM so I just play casually now for fun. No point in stressing yourself out.
Sometimes it's about talent. I've heard Stephano plays 3 hrs and he's one of the best EU GM's. If you don't have the talent to become the best, you're kinda wasting your time trying and still being mediocre. Better to play SC as a hobby and find something more productive to invest your time in.
disregard posts like this. If you really want to improve then one excellent approach to is to always find your FIRST mistake and eliminate that. That means going through your replay as slowly and carefully as you have to and find a point where you make your first mistake, especially if it's one that you think you might do often and correct that mistake (this can be getting supply blocked, doing part of your build slower than normal, first time you have an idle rax/cc when you dont mean to, NOT scouting at the right time for 3rd/4th etc,). And try to keep correcting the first mistake you make until you can get progressively farther into the game with 'perfect' play.
Also scout more, even watching really strong players stream I notice almost no one scouts enough. I have no idea why this is because keeping tabs on base counts and exact timings of expansions is incredibly useful and I see these GM players turtling in their base building to a composition they know will do damage but havent scouted beyond their opponents nat since the game started and thus can't make the best and most informed decisions about where and when to attack blah blah
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EPT
