But I'm sure that if you come back in 10 years it won't be the same. :S
The Myth of Cannabis Withdrawal - Page 2
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LunaSea
Luxembourg369 Posts
But I'm sure that if you come back in 10 years it won't be the same. :S | ||
Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
It doesnt mean one person is stronger than another. It just happenes. | ||
munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question? | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 07:46 MaliciousMirth wrote: I am also a chronic user......I have been smoking for about 10 years now without many significant breaks....I am very responsible, have a B.S. in genetics/cell biology, a good job, and am a very responsible person. I have quit over the years due to travel, business, or whatever, and I have experienced some withdrawals. I can and will walk away from weed when I need to, or I want to take a tolerance break. When I quit I ALWAYS get sleeplessness. My mind races and it feels like I can't relax properly. This will go away after the first night or two, and my appetite is a little sluggish, but other than that I get no other withdrawal symptoms. What is happening with all addictions is something like this. (bear in mind this is the short version and I wont go into biochemical and enzymatic pathways) When weed is smoked, our lungs filter the cannabanoids into out blood stream. these particles then get carried to our brains. In our brains, are chemical receptors, that have structures on the outsides of them that recognize, and bind with particles. THC has a specific receptor in the brain. (this has recently been confirmed via tel-aviv university) This receptor takes those THC particles, binds with them, and sends a corresponding signal that makes us feel high. After prolonged use of these receptors, they get used to the activity of sending signals, so it take more and more of a certain particle to make them "react". If you're a heavy user who suddenly quits one day, the receptors in question are in a state of shock, and send false positive signals to the brain, which makes you crave, anxious, grumpy, or whatever the symptoms maybe of whatever drug you prefer. In a nutshell that is what is happening. I have a BS in genetics/cell molecular bio and I have more questions now than I ever did. Hope this helps and I will be glad to try and answer any other questions you might have. That's a very accurate description. With cannabis, the receptors "down-regulate" which can be thought of as THC being a key, and the receptor being a lock, and when the receptors down-regulate the lock is blocked so the key can't go in. That's the way I like to describe it, hehe. When you stop using, you have less receptors available to receive keys, and therefore the system is a bit lopsided, causing withdrawal symptoms. Like we've stated, for most people these are non-existant or minor. The receptors up-regulate at a decent speed, hence a few nights of sleeplessness for MaliciousMirth before enough receptors are available for the bodies naturally produced THC (called anandamide) to bind to and get things running normally again. I hope my piggy backing actually made things clearer and didn't make it more confusing, hehe. | ||
Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
I wasn't sure until I read this that I would be able to keep up good grades and lead a responsible life if I kept smoking, but it's been a couple months now and everything seems fine. The most important thing I have to stress here is that it is important when you smoke and for what. For me, I smoke AFTER all my work is done and also at night. Essentially its a very helpful drug that has no bad effects to my life other then the cost and my tolerance level :s | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:15 munchmunch wrote: sMi.NewB and MaliciousMirth, thanks! I think I just need to read more research papers. But if you have any good pubmed links, I'd be glad to have them for later. (The survey sounds good as well.) Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question? You need dependence to have any sort of bio-chemically induced withdrawal symptoms. If you are an acute (occasional) user, your receptors won't down-regulate enough to make a difference once you stop using. You need to use on a consistent basis to get enough receptors to down-regulate to feel things like headache, sleeplessness, etc. I like to think of dependence as meaning you've had enough receptors down-regulate so that if you stop adding THC to the system, the body will be unbalanced since the natural THC will not have enough receptors to tap and create normal body functioning. The reason for that is the bodies natural THC (anandamide) has a much smaller effect than THC from the plant does, so for the anandamide to work properly you need enough receptors available to receive it. I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't. | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:47 Br3ezy wrote:The most important thing I have to stress here is that it is important when you smoke and for what. For me, I smoke AFTER all my work is done and also at night. Essentially its a very helpful drug that has no bad effects to my life other then the cost and my tolerance level :s That is exactly right! And I believe the best way to deal with drug abuse in this country is to create a culture of responsible use, where the regular view of how to use cannabis reflects what you stated above. | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:00 LunaSea wrote: @sMi.NewB : Your good physical condition explains this. But I'm sure that if you come back in 10 years it won't be the same. :S Hey now, I expect to be in BETTER shape in 10 years, not worse! =) | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 07:09 Velr wrote: Ahm... Arent these the withdrawal symptoms when smoking Tobaco? I imagine the ones, if there are any, of cannabis would be diffrent? Google "NIDA Cannabis Withdrawal" and you'll get the govt's official list. NIDA = National Institute on Drug Abuse, the government entity which tries its damndest to prove that cannabis is bad for us and ignores research done around the rest of the world which contradicts their bias studies. | ||
Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:50 sMi.NewB wrote: That is exactly right! And I believe the best way to deal with drug abuse in this country is to create a culture of responsible use, where the regular view of how to use cannabis reflects what you stated above. out of curiosity, how much do you usually go through in lets say a week of regular toking? | ||
munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:48 sMi.NewB wrote: You need dependence to have any sort of bio-chemically induced withdrawal symptoms. If you are an acute (occasional) user, your receptors won't down-regulate enough to make a difference once you stop using. You need to use on a consistent basis to get enough receptors to down-regulate to feel things like headache, sleeplessness, etc. I like to think of dependence as meaning you've had enough receptors down-regulate so that if you stop adding THC to the system, the body will be unbalanced since the natural THC will not have enough receptors to tap and create normal body functioning. The reason for that is the bodies natural THC (anandamide) has a much smaller effect than THC from the plant does, so for the anandamide to work properly you need enough receptors available to receive it. I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't. I see. Looking again, I see there is a wikipedia entry for physical dependence, which I missed, and which is very helpful. However, that article claims that cannabis does not cause physical dependence. Is that correct? Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms like headaches or nausea if you only have psychological dependence? | ||
awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On December 20 2011 09:08 munchmunch wrote: I see. Looking again, I see there is a wikipedia entry for physical dependence, which I missed, and which is very helpful. However, that article claims that cannabis does not cause physical dependence. Is that correct? Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms like headaches or nausea if you only have psychological dependence? Yes. A psychological addiction is still physical in the sense that the chemicals in your brain react in ways that cause the symptoms listed in the OP, some of which would probably be enhanced since they stopped using Marijuana which naturally causes anti-anxiety and is a sleep and hunger aid. | ||
Djeez
543 Posts
On December 20 2011 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote: It effects a lot of sleep receptors in some way i guess, that's bound to have long term effects upon stopping. I wasn't aware anyone tried saying much different from the OP really... most people have mild/minor problems. I just came of a year of opiate use, with 2 weeks of withdrawals. It magnitudes more painful than any of this, it's just misleading people to be using the term withdrawals when what comes to mind is from opiate/benzo/alcohol abuse (the latter 2 even worse). Haha, your post made me think of this scene I always laugh when I hear people say they're going off-weed and use the expression ''cold turkey''. My bet is if they'd have to spend 1 hour with an actual addict going cold turkey they'd shit their pants. | ||
iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 20 2011 09:57 Djeez wrote: Haha, your post made me think of this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWQM6sOsd5k I always laugh when I hear people say they're going off-weed and use the expression ''cold turkey''. My bet is if they'd have to spend 1 hour with an actual addict going cold turkey they'd shit their pants. lol@ at the bob saget I started at 16, I'm 23. I won't ever stop, in my mind at the moment. However, going 2-3 days without, I feel the same shit. I'm mr meeeeeeeeeeean without. It's hard to go around that beast. Time is the ultimate healer. | ||
rei
United States3593 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:48 sMi.NewB wrote: I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't. this is the grey area where its hard for people to differentiate psychological and physiological dependence, something i tried to touch on earlier, when in reality its one in the same due to the brain-reward system | ||
sMi.NewB
United States127 Posts
On December 20 2011 10:46 rei wrote: fuck ya sMi. fuck ya Weed!!!! oh wait is cannabis = weed? Fuck ya cannabis!! <3 rei! lol fuck ya cannabis! | ||
MasterBlasterCaster
United States568 Posts
It's a touchy issue with a lot of people, but the honest truth is that I don't meet many people who started smoking weed that have then quit. There's been a few, but the majority of them smoke for a long time, and when they do quit, they end up experiencing withdrawal. Now, keep in mind that I don't consider quitting for a couple of weeks, months, or even years, as truly quitting. To quit something is to quit it. And every person I have met agreed that it was a struggle to quit smoking pot. But it's all anecdotal on my end. I see some scientists say it's great, some say it's alright, some say it's bad. I think people over think it too much. Of course it isn't good. It's a vice. Cigarettes and alcohol. Gambling and shit. edit: that sounds like I've been addicted to meth, heroin and coke. lol. Me? No way. But I've had friends on it and seen them try to quit. | ||
Fivyrn
30 Posts
I still smoke very rarely, like a handful of times a year (like twice) but I am glad I don't smoke everyday anymore, although I do miss it ;p Maybe one day I'll come back... I will just be scared that I won't be responsible. For you guys who are using everyday, if you are successful and happy and responsible that is awesome and I am jealous! | ||
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