• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:09
CEST 12:09
KST 19:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting2[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent6Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO25.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)66Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition315.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent I'm making videos again Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Whose hotkey signature is this? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop the Construction YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1237 users

Practicing philosophy

Blogs > affinity
Post a Reply
affinity
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States266 Posts
December 17 2011 17:51 GMT
#1
Disclaimer: I don't claim to be good and understand high level SC2 or how to improve. I'm only mid-diamond and have plenty of holes in my play; this is only speculation.

Whenever someone starts blogging about how he's going to get better at SC2, whether the goal is getting to a league or "going pro", the method always seems to grind out 239749 practice games, whether it be ladder or against practice partners. While this method definitely has shown to be effective, after I read that Stephano practices 4 hours a day consistently, I wondered if the average gamer could do this too and his achieve goals (or perhaps Stephano is just a freak of nature). What if I only could practice 2 hours a day? What'd I spend that time on?

For a lowbie like me, I think the best use of time would be specifically practicing macro. This doesn't mean start playing games and focus on macroing, I mean playing multitask trainer UMS's or opening up a 1vAI and trying to get my SQ as high as possible while following a build. Of course, practicing against practice partners and/or laddering is irreplaceable - applying what you practice is necessary.

Here's a quick analogy: Say I want to be amazing at boxing.
- If I start fighting/sparring people every day, I'd definitely get good at boxing. (Grind out a billion ladder games)
- But wait! People say to reflect on your fighting. I'd benefit more from watching my fights and analyzing what I'm doing; then, when sparring, I would focus on trying to set up a specific counter or combo. (Watch your replays, see what you're doing wrong, focus on improving one aspect of your game)
- However, not even pro boxers spar every day. Most new boxers don't even get to start sparring until a couple months have passed because they need to build up their strength and conditioning. Practice consists of strength training, running/conditioning drills, practicing combos. This method is FAR superior than just aimlessly fighting every day.

This doesn't necessarily only apply to macro practice - I'm sure it applies to other aspects, including micro. For example, if I was having a particularly hard time with ling/bling micro in ZvZ, instead of asking a practice partner to go lings/bling builds against me, what if I first asked him to play a ling/bling micro map against me? Once comfortable controlling my lings, THEN play practice games?

So, what do you think? Is it possible to achieve goals with a small amount of practice? If you only could practice 2-4 hours a day to achieve your goal, what would you spend that time on?

*
thesideshow
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
930 Posts
December 17 2011 18:12 GMT
#2
In order to spar (especially for longer periods of time), you must be physically fit. It's a prerequisite.

There's no such prerequisite for sc2 (apart from being able to click and stuff), so the analogy doesn't really apply.
OGS:levelchange
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
December 17 2011 18:49 GMT
#3
On December 18 2011 03:12 thesideshow wrote:
In order to spar (especially for longer periods of time), you must be physically fit. It's a prerequisite.

There's no such prerequisite for sc2 (apart from being able to click and stuff), so the analogy doesn't really apply.


Although I do partially agree, there is a similarity between the mental ability to be able to just crack down and practice for hours at a time to improve. It's very taxing on the mind in both scenarios.
thesideshow
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
930 Posts
December 17 2011 19:03 GMT
#4
On December 18 2011 03:49 Fruscainte wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2011 03:12 thesideshow wrote:
In order to spar (especially for longer periods of time), you must be physically fit. It's a prerequisite.

There's no such prerequisite for sc2 (apart from being able to click and stuff), so the analogy doesn't really apply.


Although I do partially agree, there is a similarity between the mental ability to be able to just crack down and practice for hours at a time to improve. It's very taxing on the mind in both scenarios.


True, mentally there is probably not much difference. You just can't spar for hours at a time. You can however, play sc2 for hours at a time. Whether or not that is the best way to improve is a different question though, and i'm not very qualified to comment on that :p
OGS:levelchange
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
December 17 2011 20:07 GMT
#5
When people say grind that includes watching ur replays, at least when you lose. Micro maps and such can be helpful at first but after a few go arounds you should get the basic concept down and shouldn't need them. The problem with practicing these specific tasks is that fundamentally starcraft is a game of multitasking and practicing macro or micro alone won't help you improve that.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
HTX
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany265 Posts
December 17 2011 20:48 GMT
#6
On December 18 2011 04:03 thesideshow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2011 03:49 Fruscainte wrote:
On December 18 2011 03:12 thesideshow wrote:
In order to spar (especially for longer periods of time), you must be physically fit. It's a prerequisite.

There's no such prerequisite for sc2 (apart from being able to click and stuff), so the analogy doesn't really apply.


Although I do partially agree, there is a similarity between the mental ability to be able to just crack down and practice for hours at a time to improve. It's very taxing on the mind in both scenarios.


True, mentally there is probably not much difference. You just can't spar for hours at a time. You can however, play sc2 for hours at a time. Whether or not that is the best way to improve is a different question though, and i'm not very qualified to comment on that :p


You can play it for hours but not on a high level without the prior training.

Playing and reflection about your game needs to be in balance to improve. Usually people dont improve because they dont get over the ego/mind part and stuck with just playing more.
The internet: a horrible collective liar
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-17 21:45:52
December 17 2011 21:35 GMT
#7
On December 18 2011 02:51 affinity wrote:
Practice consists of strength training, running/conditioning drills, practicing combos. This method is FAR superior than just aimlessly fighting every day.


When people suggest that you play a ton of games, they don't mean just aimlessly playing every day. Nobody with half a brain thinks that's a good idea. Practicing anything doesn't count unless it's deliberate practice. You play a ton of games, and have something specific in mind that you're working on at all times. Those conditioning and training drills you mentioned... What do you think the analog of those are? Playing UMS micro maps? Why not just practice those same skills in a game, since that's where they actually occur. You should be playing as much as you can, and some games focus on never getting supply blocked, some games focus on always making units, some games focus on always hitting your injects, some games focus on your upgrade timings, etc.

DO NOT just sit there, hit the find match button, go on autopilot and "try to play better", rinse and repeat. That would be aimlessly fighting every day. I think you're missing the point of the "play a ton of games" advice, much the same way that tons of people missed the point of Destiny's mass queen experiment, or that mass stalker thread on reddit, etc.

Also, I thought this thread was going to be about the practice of philosophy, not the philosophy of practice.
Keyboard Warrior
Profile Joined December 2011
United States1178 Posts
December 17 2011 22:55 GMT
#8
Definitely, but you need to have very high quality to compensate for the lack on quantity.

Additionally, you should also be that kind of a fine player who can learn fast and improve on it.

Otherwise, the lack of experience and exposure will realy show
Not your regular Keyboard Warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
S-Class
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (North)665 Posts
December 18 2011 02:52 GMT
#9
Well, with constant practice comes muscle memory. That is a big part of the mechanics, where the game becomes instinctive. If you sacrifice that, you have to compensate a lot on other areas.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro4 Match 1
Barracks vs SnowLIVE!
Afreeca ASL 8120
sctven
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 151
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9956
Sea 4891
Flash 4234
Rain 2140
GuemChi 1454
Shuttle 915
Mini 517
BeSt 513
Larva 500
Zeus 412
[ Show more ]
Hyun 294
Pusan 283
Stork 266
PianO 164
JYJ127
Light 124
Mind 63
Hyuk 61
soO 48
Sharp 48
ToSsGirL 47
Mong 46
Rush 30
Sacsri 28
Aegong 28
NotJumperer 25
Backho 17
sorry 16
Bale 12
Shine 12
HiyA 10
Noble 8
Hm[arnc] 7
SilentControl 6
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 456
XcaliburYe198
League of Legends
JimRising 461
Counter-Strike
allub227
x6flipin127
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King63
Westballz62
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor147
Other Games
ceh9666
singsing593
crisheroes238
Fuzer 90
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 149
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH185
• LUISG 31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1711
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
51m
Monday Night Weeklies
5h 51m
Replay Cast
13h 51m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 51m
Soma vs Bisu
OSC
1d 3h
OSC
1d 7h
MaxPax vs Gerald
Solar vs Krystianer
PAPI vs Lemon
Ryung vs Moja
Nice vs NightPhoenix
Cham vs TBD
MaNa vs TriGGeR
PiGosaur Monday
1d 13h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Safe House 2
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Safe House 2
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.