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On December 15 2011 19:50 Sabu113 wrote:
I really enjoy when you speak because it is always very rich. Still don't you think your timing is a bit off? Do we really need EG in here to cover Idra's ass? Fairly or unfairly letting die off seems the better or atleast more honorable route.
How is Alex covering Idra's ass? Did i miss something? People have said the exact examples that Alex mentioned, in the discussions about this whole Naniwa case. Majority knows about them.
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On December 15 2011 19:47 souLess419 wrote:
While you make good points, i still believe a quality product will not have meaningless matches. When you watch an all star game, your expecting silly/shenanigans/not trying to occur. That's not the case when you tune into a professional level tournament with money on the line and what not.
What's funny is if naniwa just 4 gated, no one would say anything. Throwing games will happen. It's all about how blatant you throwing the game really is, but no matter what form it comes in, it accomplishes the same goal. I actually found it funny when he pulled his probes, got a good laugh out of it.
Couldnt agree more.
No drama would have occured if he had 4gated or proxy 2gate.
Guess next time a pro player wants to skip a game he will have to do this.
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This story reminds me of Ferdinand the Bull for some reason. Worse ending though, imho.
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On December 15 2011 19:07 Huckleuro wrote:
Though say we were to talk about professionalism... when EG's (and many, many other teams) top players regularly go on stream and repeatedly abuse their opposition, when they sit there and call almost every opponent a 'retard'... sure that must be seen as totally unprofessional and down right rude?
This exactly sums up my opinion on the whole matter. The point made by this thread is that Nani was being unprofessional but it's clear that the community is fine with unprofessionalism.
It's completely understandable that business is business and people need to make money, but that's the real reason for this thread, claiming it's all about professionalism in such an unprofessional scene doesn't make much sense to me.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I discussed this quite extensively with various community figures and i think Alex has summed up and articulated my feelings on the issue very well.
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On December 15 2011 18:17 Zlasher wrote:
I don't mean this in a facetious way or saying that you or your team are being hypocritical, because I do agree with your overarching point of your perspective, but if Naniwa should have just played the meaningless match, then what does it mean when your guys new Dota team recently, at what is considered one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world in SMM (no matter how poorly run the event ended up being this year), chose to forfeit out of matches that DID have a meaning, by boycotting their losers bracket matches and any potential future that they have with the event? There was never really any official statement or release from management of EG following the SMM event, and more than anything I'm just interested in what your comments are on THAT situation, of giving up instead of fighting the fight. DID you guys talk to them and give them the talk that what they did was unacceptable, a la what you did for Idra following his forfeiting of Game 2 vs Nerchio? ahhhh nice
would like to hear his oppinion about that, too :D
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United States38 Posts
On December 15 2011 19:19 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 18:25 Adebisi wrote:On December 15 2011 18:17 Skyreaper wrote:On December 15 2011 18:08 Adebisi wrote:
I agree with what you say everywhere more or less (could be nitpicky on certain details and analogies maybe I guess) but I think the one point you miss is that games that do not matter for the progression of the tournament/league should not be broadcast. Ultimately if you want to advocate preserving the integrity of GOMtv's product, the tournament structure must create only games that actually matter (or just be ready to not play/broadcast irrelevent games, simply following the precedent they set in up/down matches) otherwise this situation will rise again, it may not be as blatant as a probe rush (and given this shit storm, I'm shirt it won't), but it will happen again. Well NaNiwa vs Nestea MATTERS for pro-gamers and many fans. NaNiwa also mentioned later that the match against wasn't meaningless as he previously thought. GomTV is doing their job by broadcasting the game that matters. I don't want to drag this topic off on a tangent so I'll try to keep this short. This is the type of things where some people will think one way, and others will think another. To me the match doesn't effect the progression of the tournament, so no longer matters, for other people, any chance to watch Nestea vs Naniwa is important even if nothing but "honour" is on the line, so it does matter. Its just a situation the ideal tournament format will avoid, you want the players to be trying their best, not half assing it, like I said in my post, if this format is used again, the exact same situation will re-occur sooner or later, it is inevitable, the player won't do something as blatant as what Naniwa did, but it will be the same. pretty much this. actually officialy the game did NOT matter. for me it doesn't matter. and i hate to see progamers play if i have the feeling they don't play real - so i don't want to see this games at all. Nobody can expect that a progamers does his best, if there is nothing on the line. It's psychological very unplausibly that someone actually is able to do his best in such a situation. Some eventually are able some will never be able - you can't blame them. It is just normal. so if i can't be sure they are giving his best, i would rather not see this game. and aside from that it even made this silly game more interesting cause it wasn't expected and i was thankful for a short game (because it didn't matter anyway  ). in terms of entertainment value it was the best thing that could have happened.
please explain to me how this game does not matter. playing against the #2 GSL ranked player in a televised map casted by half a dozen casters in two different languages for a live studio audience and 100k+ viewers on live streams and future vods all enhanced by a rivalry factor that the you created by your words and actions in the previous meeting of a major tournament.
this game has no meaning? oh wait, i forgot, there was no money or seeding implications involved. that must be it right?
Alex, great post.
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Also as some people before I would like to point out how incredibly blown out of proportion this was/is. As a disclaimer I do not really mind when Idra "BMs" somewhat or does not gg or early ggs. But his name-calling of Mana and the game itself in his IPL2 games if I remember correctly is what I would call disrespect. That was actually extremely rude to his opponent as there was no context of playfullness or even sarcasm in that case and was not warranted by his opponent in the slightest. He simply was an enormous ass there. There is no comparison to some perceived dishonor that is somehow inherent in probe rushing according to some people. Idra was n-times worse in that case than whatever Naniwa did, just purely by intent. Apart from few voices noone even dealt with that incident. It is telling that it is not even mentioned in Alex's blog.
Note that I am saying that from the point of view of purely personal conduct, respect and honor, which are words a lot of people use to pass judgment on Naniwa, Idra's behavior was much worse and noone took any action at all. As far as his professional obligations , which do not have much to do with honor and respect, go Naniwa's action was of course worse.
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Russian Federation51 Posts
This. Almost exactly what I thought (except the part about excessive severity of the punishment). I like that the incident is getting such constructive reaction from ppl actually involved in eSports, not only "reddit hamsters". Looking forward to LiquidNazgul's outlook on the situation =)
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On December 15 2011 19:53 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 19:29 Angelbelow wrote:On December 15 2011 19:19 The Void wrote:On December 15 2011 18:25 Adebisi wrote:On December 15 2011 18:17 Skyreaper wrote:On December 15 2011 18:08 Adebisi wrote:
I agree with what you say everywhere more or less (could be nitpicky on certain details and analogies maybe I guess) but I think the one point you miss is that games that do not matter for the progression of the tournament/league should not be broadcast. Ultimately if you want to advocate preserving the integrity of GOMtv's product, the tournament structure must create only games that actually matter (or just be ready to not play/broadcast irrelevent games, simply following the precedent they set in up/down matches) otherwise this situation will rise again, it may not be as blatant as a probe rush (and given this shit storm, I'm shirt it won't), but it will happen again. Well NaNiwa vs Nestea MATTERS for pro-gamers and many fans. NaNiwa also mentioned later that the match against wasn't meaningless as he previously thought. GomTV is doing their job by broadcasting the game that matters. I don't want to drag this topic off on a tangent so I'll try to keep this short. This is the type of things where some people will think one way, and others will think another. To me the match doesn't effect the progression of the tournament, so no longer matters, for other people, any chance to watch Nestea vs Naniwa is important even if nothing but "honour" is on the line, so it does matter. Its just a situation the ideal tournament format will avoid, you want the players to be trying their best, not half assing it, like I said in my post, if this format is used again, the exact same situation will re-occur sooner or later, it is inevitable, the player won't do something as blatant as what Naniwa did, but it will be the same. pretty much this. actually officialy the game did NOT matter. for me it doesn't matter. and i hate to see progamers play if i have the feeling they don't play real - so i don't want to see this games at all. Nobody can expect that a progamers does his best, if there is nothing on the line. It's psychological very unplausibly that someone actually is able to do his best in such a situation. Some eventually are able some will never be able - you can't blame them. It is just normal. so if i can't be sure they are giving his best, i would rather not see this game. and aside from that it even made this silly game more interesting cause it wasn't expected and i was thankful for a short game (because it didn't matter anyway ). in terms of entertainment value it was the best thing that could have happened. I disagree, the game does matter. Naniwa agreed to the format and he agreed to compete with.. oh... just the top players of 2011 in SC2's most prestigious tournament organizer. Therefore, Naniwa has an obligation to the fans, to his team, and to the tournament organizers to play it out (after all they're all putting time and/or money to see him succeed.) At the end of the day, the game does matter or it wouldn't have caused this community backlash. It wouldn't have led to his candidacy for Code S being revoked. The posters and fans that continue to defend Naniwa, know this, you're not doing him any favors. In fact Naniwa himself (along with other notable figures in the sc2 world) have agreed that this situation will only make him better if he learns from it. the game officially doesn't effect anything in the tourney. that's it. so it doesn't matter. if you want to put something in there that doesn't exist officially. ok do that - that's your thing. also regarding "obligation to the fans, to his team, and to the wournament organizers" - Naniwa has a personality in the first place. if you don't like it - ok, that's your thing again. i like personalities and every person has to judge by her self which things matter and which not. he doesn't offend anyone. or do you think (bad)manner mules or hatches, nexi, offend someone? lol idra saying "fuck you" or "random fat guy" is offending. not this shit. GOM acted like being emotional unstable and personally offended - i think they have to calm down and apologize to Naniwa and community. making bad format in first place and then acting like a kid whose fiends doesn't want to play the way they wanted.
I don't think you addressed any of my points seriously. You said that naniwa has a personality so that means he isn't obligated to do his job? I don't like what he did, I'm not afraid to admit that because i want whats best for him. I think what he did caused a lot of backlash and headache that he could have easily avoided if he was professional.
Again, your not doing Naniwa any favors by continuously excusing his actions. Hes been punished (and while I thought it was too harsh,) neither of us can change it. So stop trying to excuse or justify his behavior. Be a real fan and support him through this rough time and hope he learns from this and becomes a better person and gamer.
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On December 15 2011 18:38 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 18:30 mojo_ca wrote:
Absolutely yes. It is your JOB as a pro gamer to entertain the fans. It is your GOAL to win championships for yourself. If you do not complete your goals in winning, but do your job in entertaining the fans, then you will always be respected as a pro gamer regardless of personal success. Eh not it's not their job to entertain the fans. That's like saying a hockey team have to play entertaining hockey instead of a boring clutch and grap style. It's up to league (Blizzard and gom/whatever organization) to create a game and rules that gives us an entertaining product. Of course you can argue it's in the players self interest to play enertaining (more fans = more money, more invites, etc) but it should by no means be obligatory as "their job."
Exactly my thoughts. Players job should't be to entertain but to play their game at their highest level. Entertainment should come first from the rules of the game. Second it should come from the structure of the tournament that provides the fans with excitement for the outgoing of the tournament. For example did anyone really care about the GSL All-Star matches.
Does anyone care about a friendly in soccer.
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Great post and while for the most part I agree, I still feel that pretending to try and just doing a 4 gate or whatever, which GOM and others appear to consider having integrity and putting on a show for the fans, would be more insulting. I want to see players playing their hearts out, not moving units around for our benefit.
In a show match situation it's different, but it's advertised as being that from the start.
This was a tail end match that GOM usually does not show. I agree that Naniwa did the wrong thing, but the match still should never have happened. This doesn't excuse him (though from hearing his interview I hold nothing against Naniwa; he made a mistake, and realises it. That's enough for me.)
I think the worst part was due to miscommunication - the spot not actually being given by Providence, etc. In the official statement, GOM chose not to give the spot to Naniwa. This is very, very different from taking it away, and fits what Naniwa did. If Naniwa had been banned, I'd have been outraged. Choosing not to pick him is another story altogether.
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On December 15 2011 19:37 UnholyRai wrote:
How is Idra forfeiting Vs. Whitera "putting on a show for spectators"?
Can someone explain this to me, everything else in the article makes a lot of sense?
Idra vs White.Ra was something like six hours delayed and Idra was jet lagged as he just got back from China, he literally passed out back stage.
Context.
On December 15 2011 19:47 souLess419 wrote:
While you make good points, i still believe a quality product will not have meaningless matches.
I watch the NHL, there are meaningless matches broadcasted let alone played, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from and how are these matches meaningless? They have meaning to the viewers, the league running it, the people sponsoring the league and the people sponsoring the players; the only person it was meaningless to was Naniwa and the fact that he felt it was meaningless really says something about his values.
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On December 15 2011 20:20 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 19:37 UnholyRai wrote:
How is Idra forfeiting Vs. Whitera "putting on a show for spectators"?
Can someone explain this to me, everything else in the article makes a lot of sense? Idra vs White.Ra was something like six hours delayed and Idra was jet lagged as he just got back from China, he literally passed out back stage. Context. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 19:47 souLess419 wrote:
While you make good points, i still believe a quality product will not have meaningless matches.
I watch the NHL, there are meaningless matches broadcasted let alone played, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from and how are these matches meaningless? They have meaning to the viewers, the league running it, the people sponsoring the league and the people sponsoring the players; the only person it was meaningless to was Naniwa and the fact that he felt it was meaningless really says something about his values.
As all those long threads indicate more than few people apart from Naniwa think that match was meaningless, so please do not generalize.
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Dear Alex
(1)You are the money handler of EG, how could you think that your opinion on the matter is relevant for public display? The opinion expressed here is concerned with money and good relation with those holding money, in this case GomTV and their sponsors. You want puppets, I, as a fan, want games that matters with emotions attached. Not an awkward fight between the players with nothing to gain, the tournament is the defining factor of motivation.
(2)Idra got lucky, skipping up and downs is quite favorable, and has indeed both money and fame attached to it. Best of luck to him and Sen.
(3)A wall of text from the CEO of the buyout team might not be the best idea how to spend the hours you are paid, since the bias of money is showing. Your opinion on business practice should probably be more interesting and commenting on GomTV's actions if one of your players would receive similar treatment and feel a lot more relevant.
On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
the public sentiment seems to be somewhere between 65/35 and 70/30 in disapproval of NaNiwa's action
The number on this site says otherwise in quite clear numbers, a vast majority has expressed an understanding for Naniwa's actions. See http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php
Even though there is room for interpretation, your interpretation is in the category the superlative form of lying. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
As you explore the history of similar events earlier, such as Idra vs Nerchio, I can only agree that it is not something good. However, in a game of 100% mental and cognitive ability judging that one is not capable of playing should be an option. If the option isn't respected there is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect between the actual game and too much focus on mimicking big sports leagues in a disconnected context.
On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Scenarios A, B, and C all happen, regularly, in professional sports...
Speaking of the big sports league analogues, why do you do this? they are not the same. Starcraft 2 as an esport has nothing owed to their formats. Esports is different and that is a good thing. Using the event at hand, we have two players playing a pointless game which was not something planned, but something that occurred as a result of previous games, all awesome and breath taking games.
Why is not the big sports league relevant? Firstly, our players in this scenario had 4 potentially important games to play in a relative short period of time. The last, and pointless game, had made no fan pay more money, put in more effort or in anyway held any expectation on fan effort. Big league sports have a VERY different format for their monetary ecosystem, where each match is an event for fans to come to arenas or turn on the TV. Televised commercials are planned months ahead and the arena-based snacks and merchandise revenue is a the monetary factor. This does not apply in this situation, there is NO WAY you can justify an analogue with one game of a big sports league game. No money was lost, the tournament format however became a joke.
On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Without all parties contributing, the industry cannot produce a quality product for our fans and community
The grudge-match argument. As a continuation on my previous paragraph, the real disappointment is how the absolutely most interesting game, from a Western perspective, became a game with NOTHING at stake. It is GomTV's responsibility to actually give our players something worth fighting for. This is why the match was a joke from the beginning and this is in extension why the majority of TL users feel no offense of the outcome (See poll link above).
The game was NOT a show match, it was an unnecessary game, a sham. The grudge-match argument is a selling point which lost its value before the game was played.
On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
I'm actually surprised that I haven't read more angry posts from disgruntled GOM customers. What NaNiwa did was basically akin to a last-place MLB team, during its final game of the season, intentionally striking out in every at bat. Just imagine what would happen in that situation: fans would ask for their money back; advertising contracts would be violated; and the league would certainly take action against the team and its players - just like GOM did with NaNi - in order to protect its product.
You are surprised because you express a very superficial view of fans and still, the analogue to a game day at a stadium does not translate.
DISCLAIMER
I do not think NaNiWa's actions were good, and I think he had a disciplinary punishment coming his way. However, I think the judgment from Alex and GomTV passed is out of proportion for this instanced event.
I am of course biased as a NaNiWa fan and I do not judge Alex beyond the text here. The issue at hand is the first time I have felt true disappointment in a Starcraft 2 organization and is the first event which have caused me to feel the need to express my feelings on the a subject. I have a low post count since I have chosen to not involve myself in exponentially growing threads, but I have followed the SC2 community and esports since the days of the beta.
Sincerely,
Kim
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my favorite part is how idra doesnt even show up for his games, and it happened more than once.
then you shittalk nani for folding a game.
brool story.
while you motivate your stance on the naniwa situation well, and base it on a well argued opinion, you still come across as a hypocrite since idra has done worse, or comparable, things several times.
sorry, but its hard to respect you when you seem like such a hypocrite.
you did have a few fair points though.
I agree naniwa should have been punished, losing code s is taking it too far though
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On December 15 2011 20:25 yousaba wrote:
my favorite part is how idra doesnt even show up for his games, and you sure as hell didnt punish him for that.
so i guess not even showing up, or just 6pooling MC over and over, is much better than folding a game with a proberush.
I feel you bro, cant be easy to have written this long post shittalking nani while trying to avoid mentioning your own player doesnt even show up to play his matches, and it have happened more than once.
...He did mention Idra and the events you referenced.
Repeatedly.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 15 2011 20:24 kmpow wrote:Dear Alex (1)You are the money handler of EG, how could you think that your opinion on the matter is relevant for public display? The opinion expressed here is concerned with money and good relation with those holding money, in this case GomTV and their sponsors. You want puppets, I, as a fan, want games that matters with emotions attached. Not an awkward fight between the players with nothing to gain, the tournament is the defining factor of motivation. (2)Idra got lucky, skipping up and downs is quite favorable, and has indeed both money and fame attached to it. Best of luck to him and Sen. (3)A wall of text from the CEO of the buyout team might not be the best idea how to spend the hours you are paid, since the bias of money is showing. Your opinion on business practice should probably be more interesting and commenting on GomTV's actions if one of your players would receive similar treatment and feel a lot more relevant. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
the public sentiment seems to be somewhere between 65/35 and 70/30 in disapproval of NaNiwa's action
The number on this site says otherwise in quite clear numbers, a vast majority has expressed an understanding for Naniwa's actions. See http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php Even though there is room for interpretation, your interpretation is in the category the superlative form of lying. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics As you explore the history of similar events earlier, such as Idra vs Nerchio, I can only agree that it is not something good. However, in a game of 100% mental and cognitive ability judging that one is not capable of playing should be an option. If the option isn't respected there is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect between the actual game and too much focus on mimicking big sports leagues in a disconnected context. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Scenarios A, B, and C all happen, regularly, in professional sports...
Speaking of the big sports league analogues, why do you do this? they are not the same. Starcraft 2 as an esport has nothing owed to their formats. Esports is different and that is a good thing. Using the event at hand, we have two players playing a pointless game which was not something planned, but something that occurred as a result of previous games, all awesome and breath taking games. Why is not the big sports league relevant? Firstly, our players in this scenario had 4 potentially important games to play in a relative short period of time. The last, and pointless game, had made no fan pay more money, put in more effort or in anyway held any expectation on fan effort. Big league sports have a VERY different format for their monetary ecosystem, where each match is an event for fans to come to arenas or turn on the TV. Televised commercials are planned months ahead and the arena-based snacks and merchandise revenue is a the monetary factor. This does not apply in this situation, there is NO WAY you can justify an analogue with one game of a big sports league game. No money was lost, the tournament format however became a joke. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Without all parties contributing, the industry cannot produce a quality product for our fans and community
The grudge-match argument. As a continuation on my previous paragraph, the real disappointment is how the absolutely most interesting game, from a Western perspective, became a game with NOTHING at stake. It is GomTV's responsibility to actually give our players something worth fighting for. This is why the match was a joke from the beginning and this is in extension why the majority of TL users feel no offense of the outcome (See poll link above). The game was NOT a show match, it was an unnecessary game, a sham. The grudge-match argument is a selling point which lost its value before the game was played. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
I'm actually surprised that I haven't read more angry posts from disgruntled GOM customers. What NaNiwa did was basically akin to a last-place MLB team, during its final game of the season, intentionally striking out in every at bat. Just imagine what would happen in that situation: fans would ask for their money back; advertising contracts would be violated; and the league would certainly take action against the team and its players - just like GOM did with NaNi - in order to protect its product.
You are surprised because you express a very superficial view of fans and still, the analogue to a game day at a stadium does not translate. DISCLAIMER I do not think NaNiWa's actions were good, and I think he had a disciplinary punishment coming his way. However, I think the judgment from Alex and GomTV passed is out of proportion for this instanced event. I am of course biased as a NaNiWa fan and I do not judge Alex beyond the text here. The issue at hand is the first time I have felt true disappointment in a Starcraft 2 organization and is the first event which have caused me to feel the need to express my feelings on the a subject. I have a low post count since I have chosen to not involve myself in potentially growing threads, but I have followed the SC2 community and esports since the days of the beta. Sincerely, Kim
Saying that games don't matter unless money is on the line quite frankly appalls me, that's a direction I don't want to see Sc2 headed in at all; you're dismissing the game as a sham because of the lack of dollars attached to it.
How very mercenary and cold. :S
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On December 15 2011 20:28 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 20:25 yousaba wrote:
my favorite part is how idra doesnt even show up for his games, and you sure as hell didnt punish him for that.
so i guess not even showing up, or just 6pooling MC over and over, is much better than folding a game with a proberush.
I feel you bro, cant be easy to have written this long post shittalking nani while trying to avoid mentioning your own player doesnt even show up to play his matches, and it have happened more than once. ...He did mention Idra and the events you referenced. Repeatedly.
yes, fixed it. my bad, browsed through iphone and must have accidentally scrolled past it.
my apologize to whomever i offended. it was a mistake.
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Great words alex, you are an inspiration
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On December 15 2011 19:29 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 19:19 The Void wrote:On December 15 2011 18:25 Adebisi wrote:On December 15 2011 18:17 Skyreaper wrote:On December 15 2011 18:08 Adebisi wrote:
I agree with what you say everywhere more or less (could be nitpicky on certain details and analogies maybe I guess) but I think the one point you miss is that games that do not matter for the progression of the tournament/league should not be broadcast. Ultimately if you want to advocate preserving the integrity of GOMtv's product, the tournament structure must create only games that actually matter (or just be ready to not play/broadcast irrelevent games, simply following the precedent they set in up/down matches) otherwise this situation will rise again, it may not be as blatant as a probe rush (and given this shit storm, I'm shirt it won't), but it will happen again. Well NaNiwa vs Nestea MATTERS for pro-gamers and many fans. NaNiwa also mentioned later that the match against wasn't meaningless as he previously thought. GomTV is doing their job by broadcasting the game that matters. I don't want to drag this topic off on a tangent so I'll try to keep this short. This is the type of things where some people will think one way, and others will think another. To me the match doesn't effect the progression of the tournament, so no longer matters, for other people, any chance to watch Nestea vs Naniwa is important even if nothing but "honour" is on the line, so it does matter. Its just a situation the ideal tournament format will avoid, you want the players to be trying their best, not half assing it, like I said in my post, if this format is used again, the exact same situation will re-occur sooner or later, it is inevitable, the player won't do something as blatant as what Naniwa did, but it will be the same. pretty much this. actually officialy the game did NOT matter. for me it doesn't matter. and i hate to see progamers play if i have the feeling they don't play real - so i don't want to see this games at all. Nobody can expect that a progamers does his best, if there is nothing on the line. It's psychological very unplausibly that someone actually is able to do his best in such a situation. Some eventually are able some will never be able - you can't blame them. It is just normal. so if i can't be sure they are giving his best, i would rather not see this game. and aside from that it even made this silly game more interesting cause it wasn't expected and i was thankful for a short game (because it didn't matter anyway ). in terms of entertainment value it was the best thing that could have happened. I disagree, the game does matter. Naniwa agreed to the format and he agreed to compete with.. oh... just the top players of 2011 in SC2's most prestigious tournament organizer. Therefore, Naniwa has an obligation to the fans, to his team, and to the tournament organizers to play it out (after all they're all putting time and/or money to see him succeed.) At the end of the day, the game does matter or it wouldn't have caused this community backlash. It wouldn't have led to his candidacy for Code S being revoked. The posters and fans that continue to defend Naniwa, know this, you're not doing him any favors. In fact Naniwa himself (along with other notable figures in the sc2 world) have agreed that this situation will only make him better if he learns from it.
I think you misinterpret the intention of their posts. What they are trying to say is not whether or not the game matters objectively, but rather that it is a subjective question for everyone to judge for themselves. Which is clearly true, due to the splitting we have seen in the community these last couple of days. I, for one, couldn't care less about the outcome of the game, and in terms of entertainment I think this was, for me personally, the best solution.
Edit: Oh, and also, great blog. This brings up points I hadn't thought about prior to reading, thank you for that!
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EPT
