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On December 13 2011 21:48 Probasaur wrote:
Naniwa VS Korea just got way more interesting. Get em Nani!!!!!!
While I would've like to have seen them play (obviously) I can understand nani's decision to not want to play his big rematch against Nestea with such a low level of confidence and just being overall pissed about being out of the tourney 0-3.
Koreans are just flaming cause they cant handle having a "white dude" crush their starcraft2 god's MVP and Nestea TWICE at MLG and now they won't get their chance for revenge against naniwa. At least until next time. Cry more Korea!
Yeah, plain wrong. Do you have something against Korea ? Because you seem quite agressive towards them.
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eh what nani did was justifiable considering the match had no value and he is a player with an incredibly competitive personality. in fact if he played the match it would probably hurt him more, in a competitive aspect, as he would expose his builds and the style he plays to other players. on the other hand he could have done a simple cheese but then people would probably get the wrong idea and say that he is a cheesy player who cant play straight up in a revenge match. so in the end he makes his intentions clear by doing this - honestly cant blame him.
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They shouldn't force meaningless games on "professionals". Do any of you even watch real sports? What do professional teams do at the tail end of a season when their playoff destiny's have already been decided...? They swap out the top players with the second string, usually auto losing the rest of the games. It is completely standard. Stop pretending like this matters in the slightest. Blame it on bad formatting for this tournament and nothing more.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
He knew Jinro didn't like to wall in on Jungle Basin, which is a map with a very short rush distance. He would've won too if not for Jinro hearing the Korean casters, an accidental marine cancel and a marine that made it into a bunker with 5 HP left.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
....Idra was 1 hit on a marine away from winning that game on a map that was extremely unfavored for Zerg. It's not "essentially the same" in the slightest.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end.
The difference is between throwing a match intentionally and actually trying to win.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. This is a complete lie. The 6 pool was pre-planned for Jungle Basin, and it almost worked.
It was pre planned because he thought Jungle Basin was unwinnable, not because he thought it would win him the game.
On December 13 2011 21:53 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. ....Idra was 1 hit on a marine away from winning that game on a map that was extremely unfavored for Zerg. It's not "essentially the same" in the slightest.
He didn't think he would win before the game. Same shit.
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I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
There is no difference between what Naniwa did and the analogy. It doesn't matter that the game meant nothing. Naniwa still spat in all of our faces and everyone involved with the Blizzard Cup and basically said he doesn't give a fuck about anyone except for himself and the money/championships he is trying to win.
I can't believe some of you actually find this action acceptable, and it shows that we are still very far from being considered a true spectator sport.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 Ucs wrote:
Have you ever seen a professional sport team/player/anyone do something like that even in situations in which the match didn't matter? No! Why? Because they have something to say to the fans:"Even thou we lost, we tried our best for you!"/ "I tried!" / "I can actaully play well so support me" / etc.. What he just said right now is :"I only care about winning some money. Why should I struggle to show a good game when I can't get the money? The fans? LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!"
Ever watched the Champions League? Teams that are guaranteed a top16 spot field their B/C Team quite often, even when the outcome of the game affects other teams. (See FC Arsenal - that greek club or Bayern Munich - Manchester City this CL season)
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On December 13 2011 21:50 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 TheKefka wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career. Ok,so it took a game(that ment nothing) of him worker rushing Nestea for people to realize Naniwa is a selfish player that only cares about if he wins,everything else comes second. Well guess what man,that is who he is.He wasn't a different person 3 months ago,he forfeited games before this,he refused to play games that mean nothing to him. This is who he is and it is nothing new. If anyone is to blame here its GOM or who ever is in charge of the game scheduling,to have forced them to play this game in the first place,because I'm pretty sure that Naniwa wanted to forfeit the game and they told him he must play his game out. It's their own fault that this happened if the don't like it,but hey,at least now they know. This was an INVITATIONAL for champions. It's an event match as much as it is a competition. This is for the fans who want to see matches seen between their favorite players. If GOM knew naniwa was gonna be a dick to the fans and their organization they would never have invited him.
Can you read?
That's exactly my point.
Naniwa is a dick if he doesn't win.End off.
Everyone knows this.EVERYONE.
If they don't know what the players are like that they invite to their tournaments than I don't know what kind of organization they are.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end.
You actually have a chance to win with that strat. There should be a 0% chance to win against a top 3 Zerg player if you attack with less workers than he has and don't even try to micro. That equals throwing away the game and insulting everyone involved.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
Except it was his plan all along to 6 pool on that map, he had told several people that the day before. Probably because it was the worst map ever to be played in GSL.
I'm sure Idra has "thrown" matches out of frustration though, your example was just terrible 
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. FruitDealer 6 pooled in the GSL finals too and he won the game.
6 pool is a legit strategy, probe rush isn't.
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I already said it, but the thread was so spammed that nobody could see it :
Nani and Nestea have an history, doing this to him is just so respectless...
Nani also complains everyday on how people see him and bitch about him, but just give them a reason to continue.
Just because he is a foreigner, I couldn't not root for him, but now... I'm sorry Nani, that's just too much, you can't say you are even trying.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports.
Yeah, your entire post falls apart right there since that just doesn't work.
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Do you know what makes a spectator sport? Not respect, honor, or trying your best. Spectators. If people watch, talk about it, get emotional about it, it's a good sport. The next time naniwa plays, people will watch.
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On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked.
I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
I have to call you out on that one. Artosis was saying after the game that it was a premediated strategy that he and Idra discussed before the game, and he was gonna do that no matter what. Idra even commented to Artosis that it would be funny if he was losing before that match and people would perceive it as a rage move.
Unless you are referring to another game where Idra 6pool Jinro in the GSL which I doubt.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end. The difference is between throwing a match intentionally and actually trying to win.
You don't understand the question:
Why is a 6 probe rush bad but a proxy 2gate is not? Both are really stupid and should be no problem for a well prepared pro-player. People proxy 2gate out of frustration all the time, naniwa decided to save time and do a worker rush. Thats the same thing.
I'm not trying to defend naniwa as I think it's bullshit to do so, but I would be upset over a proxy 2gate too and people's reaction is way too much.
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:54 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end. You actually have a chance to win with that strat. There should be a 0% chance to win against a top 3 Zerg player if you attack with less workers than he has and don't even try to micro. That equals throwing away the game and insulting everyone involved.
The only times I see something like a proxy 2gate succeed is if the players fail horribly with scouting, which should never happen for a pro player, or just pro players playing vs randoms on ladder/small tournaments etc
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On December 13 2011 21:50 Ktk wrote:
You didn't see Hero giving up on his 4th game did you? Or MC give up, knowing he'd advance anyways?
Nestea didn't do anything of the sort, and he absolutely had more reputation on the line. Claimed by many to be "Best Zerg in the World", knocked out R1? No doubt he's disappointed.
Well Hero played so ridiculously bad compared to his normal level that you could definitaly suspect he didn't try his hardest to but it in a nice way. And unlike Naniwa's match, his one actually had an influence on the rest of the group.
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EPT
