• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:31
CEST 01:31
KST 08:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)2BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
what is flash bitcoin Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Who’s Getting the Effortless-Chic Look Just Right?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 20299 users

I accidentally a timing

Blogs > LunaSaint
Post a Reply
LunaSaint
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom620 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 19:32:43
December 06 2011 19:31 GMT
#1
Warning: This is a Silver level blog. It is going to be full of Silver level misconceptions, and any linked replays will contain silver level macro. In this case, not just silver level macro but Silver level "I haven't played this matchup since Skyrim came out" macro.
Do feel free to giggle at how many minerals I'm floating. I know I do.


Basically, I'm a horribly horribly passive player. I'm that guy who sits on 2-3 bases, macros until maxed, and pushes. And if I think that might not win the game right away, I'll make 10 rax as I push and rally marines when my supply starts to drop. The most shameful thing is that the rallying works far too well if my push does any damage at all. I'm sure if I just focused on a winning build I could reach much higher leagues. For now though, I just try things out until I find something I'm comfortable with.

The problem I have is, I'm always too wary or focused on production to think about attacking or gaining map control. The only times I attack are if I'm (near) maxed, or I realised I forgot what my gameplan was and just spend what money I have on the first thing that comes to mind and push ASAP.

This often results in something like this. I bet if I made that into an actual build (and kept my ghosts in front and paid any attention to my army - I only won that because my opponent's army was much smaller), I would be set for TvP for some time.

I do this in TvT too whenever I'm not screwing around with Air Terran. (Speaking of which, HSMs can win games you had no business winning. I was far too lazy that game to deserve a win.)

--

Anyway! Rambling aside, after a few months of on-and-off experimenting in this game, I'm finding builds I quite enjoy and am capable of executing at all. But I know from experience that I'm going to lose focus on the point of them and spend not enough time being active with my army.

What do you find helps you stay focused on scouting, attacking and staying army aware? All my experimenting has gotten me better at paying attention to supply and gas (I still find myself bad at balancing minerals), but I'm still really bad at working out what my opponent has and if I should attack. After a session of playing I like to watch replays and laugh at how many moments there are when I can just push and win.

*
HyTex
Profile Joined August 2011
United States67 Posts
December 06 2011 19:45 GMT
#2
Pick one versatile build (to use in all 3 matchups), and stick with it. Every single game. Practice it to absolute perfection vs AI first; if you can't do it perfectly while talking to a friend you haven't mastered it. Once that's done, search Day[9]'s video on Tapping on youtube, and watch all 3 parts. Learn that until you do it perfectly while talking to friends.

Stop thinking about strategy until that point.
Troublesome
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom522 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 20:09:05
December 06 2011 20:08 GMT
#3
On December 07 2011 04:45 HyTex wrote:
Pick one versatile build (to use in all 3 matchups), and stick with it. Every single game. Practice it to absolute perfection vs AI first; if you can't do it perfectly while talking to a friend you haven't mastered it. Once that's done, search Day[9]'s video on Tapping on youtube, and watch all 3 parts. Learn that until you do it perfectly while talking to friends.

Stop thinking about strategy until that point.

Although improving macro is obviously the fastest way to achieve league promotion, I don't think it is fair to morally condemn considering strategy in lower leagues. The advice is, of course, valid though.
Roll with the punches.
LunaSaint
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom620 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 20:36:39
December 06 2011 20:14 GMT
#4
I would have hoped that it was clear that I wasn't trying to rush to masters/diamond and was instead trying to take a slow, explorative, enjoyable trip up the ladder.
--

I'm just asking a question of what prompts people use to be more active? It seems counter-intuitive to just build up to a certain time, push out and pray. (Unless of course an all-in is scouted or something.)
bumdiggity
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
December 06 2011 21:24 GMT
#5
I would strongly suggest taking a look at replays and making note of your windows to attack. Sure it will vary based on player/race etc. but it can help give you a better feel for the game and may open your eyes to some nice odd timings. Do this and then apply it where you see fit. You may lose a game or two, but experimenting is a great way to learn.
Skipper240
Profile Joined August 2010
140 Posts
December 06 2011 21:41 GMT
#6
You become more active as you familiarize yourself with the details of a strategy. That's why most people recommend sticking to one strategy for each match up when learning. As you repeat a strategy over and over again you use your own timings as a guide for what people can have at various points in the game.

It's not so much building up, pushing out and praying as it is building up then pushing out when you have a good idea of what your opponent has even without being able to see anything.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 21:44:17
December 06 2011 21:43 GMT
#7
I don't play too often, but what I've done is experiment a lot in each matchup (all 9, I play random), to find a build I like that is my own and is successful and Fun.

For example, my TvT build is a 7 minute reaper with speed timing that gets +1 for the second wave:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 depot
11 gas
14 rax (add TLab)
15 rax (add TLab)
16 +2 to gas
16 gas
17 depot
17 +2 to gas
21 Fact
23 Orbital
24 Eng bay
Add Rax w/reactor ASAP without stopping reaper production. Research speed and then start stim.
Expand when able without stopping unit production.

Harass with first reaper to show reaper expand, then at 7 minutes hit with 8 reapers. Immediately start producing Marauders and Marines. Sometimes this will kill them outright. This hits just before a tank pops out, and 8 reapers destroy marines and scvs, etc. If they hold, push with your second bio wave.

Is it a GM strategy? No, but its a build that is fun and lets me work on micro and execution! Because I have a set time to attack in, I don't get stuck in the -macromacromacro- mindset. Even my macro games (ZvP 3base Mutabane) have a specific timing that I try to hit. Just play through your build, have fun, find a good time to hit, and push - then in all future games with that build, push at that time.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
LunaSaint
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom620 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 22:14:45
December 06 2011 22:13 GMT
#8
On December 07 2011 06:41 Skipper240 wrote:
You become more active as you familiarize yourself with the details of a strategy. That's why most people recommend sticking to one strategy for each match up when learning. As you repeat a strategy over and over again you use your own timings as a guide for what people can have at various points in the game.

It's not so much building up, pushing out and praying as it is building up then pushing out when you have a good idea of what your opponent has even without being able to see anything.

You make a good point in that you learn from practise.
I should really come back and see if I need to ask this again in a week's time, or so.

Thanks for actually explaining instead of spewing out a tl'dr.

iGrok, I'll bear that in mind. If I just keep going with whatever builds I gravitate to, I'll find out soon enough what I can and can't do.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 23:11:46
December 06 2011 22:57 GMT
#9
On December 07 2011 04:31 LunaSaint wrote:


What do you find helps you stay focused on scouting, attacking and staying army aware? All my experimenting has gotten me better at paying attention to supply and gas (I still find myself bad at balancing minerals), but I'm still really bad at working out what my opponent has and if I should attack. After a session of playing I like to watch replays and laugh at how many moments there are when I can just push and win.



imo by far the best thing you can do is practice looking elsewhere on the map while you are macroing, and try to keep your macro up at all times with your focus/camera away from your base-- even if you aren't doing anything by looking out of your base. You need to be able to macro without a laser-focus in your main in order to make the step you're talking about, and its a skill you'll only develop by actually doing it.

specific builds, as other people mention, is a good way to set-in-stone certain elements of your play so that you don't need to fixate on them, so it's good advice as well, but there are many people that do specific single builds and still stare at their base most of the game. (except when attacking, and then their macro slips)

EDIT: also what is the title of this thread supposed to be?
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
December 06 2011 23:05 GMT
#10
First, choose one "gameplan" for each matchup. The gameplan should include build, transition, strategy and such. Something like FFE into 2 port phoenix then get 2 colossi for a timing attack (I just made that up on the spot and I'm not a protoss player, so do not use that gameplan.) Practice said gameplan until you know it inside and out. Then look elsewhere while performing the gameplan. Once you have that mastered, practice moving your army and such while executing the gameplan.
For specific problems that need to be ironed out, play 5-10 games focusing on that problem and not actually winning then 5-10 games focusing on winning in order to keep your other skills sharp.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
December 07 2011 00:02 GMT
#11
On December 07 2011 04:45 HyTex wrote:
Pick one versatile build (to use in all 3 matchups), and stick with it. Every single game. Practice it to absolute perfection vs AI first; if you can't do it perfectly while talking to a friend you haven't mastered it. Once that's done, search Day[9]'s video on Tapping on youtube, and watch all 3 parts. Learn that until you do it perfectly while talking to friends.

Stop thinking about strategy until that point.


Agree with second point, disagree with first. While I agree that you need to limit the amount of builds that you do, you should have a different build for each MU, unless you're silver protoss. It just makes the route you go more effective than going with the normal ideology of "Oh, 3 rax all-in, rage against zerg if no work." Hellions, for instance, grant map control and give you a free semi-economic expansion, but going reactor hellion versus toss, or any major mech play at all, is not a good idea. Bio just works so much better. As for TvT, learn Bio-mech into SkyTerran.

As for not thinking about strats until you have good mechanics, didn't Destiny say that strategy is completely irrelevant if you don't have the mechanics to execute it?
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
LunaSaint
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom620 Posts
December 07 2011 01:05 GMT
#12
On December 07 2011 09:02 Conquerer67 wrote:As for not thinking about strats until you have good mechanics, didn't Destiny say that strategy is completely irrelevant if you don't have the mechanics to execute it?

Dunno if he did, but it's certainly true. I tried 4k.warden's mech style TvP a long time ago and just couldn't control anything properly - its also why I try to avoid anything too heavy on the harassment, since I already struggle at paying attention to one army.

Either way, this blog has nothing to do with strategy. D:
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
21:00
Mid Season Playoffs
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
SteadfastSC126
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 145
SteadfastSC126
PiGStarcraft87
RuFF_SC2 87
EnDerr 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3653
Rain 1750
Artosis 504
Dota 2
monkeys_forever210
ROOTCatZ21
League of Legends
Dendi1434
Counter-Strike
fl0m6040
Foxcn234
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe103
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2757
Other Games
summit1g9974
tarik_tv6217
shahzam779
C9.Mang0750
ViBE188
Trikslyr50
PPMD34
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8810
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH281
• Hupsaiya 45
• RyuSc2 43
• davetesta38
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21369
League of Legends
• Doublelift5795
Other Games
• imaqtpie874
• Shiphtur488
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
29m
OSC
29m
WardiTV Invitational
11h 29m
HiGhDrA vs Nicoract
MaNa vs HiGhDrA
HiGhDrA vs Reynor
Nicoract vs Reynor
MaNa vs Nicoract
MaNa vs Reynor
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs Spirit
OSC
13h 29m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
19h 29m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 3h
SOOP
1d 9h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 10h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 11h
Cheesadelphia
1d 15h
[ Show More ]
CSO Cup
1d 17h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 18h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.