I just bought and installed Brood War, due to everyone saying it's such a great game and I'm missing out if I don't play it.
THIS GAME IS FRIGHTENING. So much multitasking, no building multi-select, no auto mine, and the worst one to me is, NO BIG CONTROL GROUPS. If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?! I haven't installed any ladders yet, I still can't beat a computer with any of the races! I think I like Terran the most though, that sexy medic. I hate how you cant stim with a medic in your control group though! Hopefully I will get the hang of this scary game. Any tips about installing ladders, build orders, general strategy or unit counters would be much appreciated as I can't even beat the a.i!
On November 29 2011 08:01 Frostfire wrote: Hello TL,
I just bought and installed Brood War, due to everyone saying it's such a great game and I'm missing out if I don't play it.
THIS GAME IS FRIGHTENING. So much multitasking, no building multi-select, no auto mine, and the worst one to me is, NO BIG CONTROL GROUPS. If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?! I haven't installed any ladders yet, I still can't beat a computer with any of the races! I think I like Terran the most though, that sexy medic. I hate how you cant stim with a medic in your control group though! Hopefully I will get the hang of this scary game. Any tips about installing ladders, build orders, general strategy or unit counters would be much appreciated as I can't even beat the a.i!
I will keep updated on my progress
Have fun dude, the reason I loved BW so much was that I had fun even if I lost.
I would suggest starting out with Protoss, its the easiest race to begin with and very simple, very powerful. To beat AI just get used to expanding and building units (just build zealots and dragoons, thats all you need). The AI just does a really terrible all-in and then is pretty useless after that.
Once you beat the AI, try installing Iccup and join the sgs clan. You will find lots of people like you who are just starting out and will be willing to play some games (hopefully).
I would suggest learning early pressure builds to start out with (2 gate dragoon PvT, 2 gate zealot PvZ). The reason is you will just straight up die in the 1st min with macro openings until you have good micro and gamesense. You probably won't start winning games till after about a 100 losses but don't give up, because winning your first Iccup game is the best feeling in the world.
Just a general thing to practice - can pick up some micro maps to help you out - but practice your 1a2a3a. :p
Get used to separating units to a certain extent in your control groups. There's also the shift+click/Ctrl+click on the unit..icons? in your middle interface.
I mean this in the nicest way possible - don't bother with any of the ladders until yuo can beat the snot out of an AI or three. ^^;
Check out Liquipedia, and look in the BW Strat section - theres a lot of posts like this in there that have great tips on easy-to-learn openings and such!
One of the biggest changes from bw to sc2 is the unlimited unit selection. I still miss the old days of sc/bw where it took skill just to move around a maxed army fluently. I believe that alot of top zergs dont even hotkey some of their units, and instead have their rally points set to 1 spot, and then as they attack they use up the control groups, and then manualyl select 12 and attack over and over until all the units are moving.
I still miss the fact that you couldnt even have marines and medics on the same hotkey as it doesnt let you use stim, and instead constantly had to rehotkey units as you made them. Good times.
If you like terran and you want to beat the ai just build a bunker outside his base and send 2 scvs to repair it (the ai is so retarded that he will keep attacking the bunker and not the scvs). just don't let the ai expand, for some strange reason they are very good at macro, and also attacking you at weird timings
bw is not scary, after you win your first game you will be hooked believe me
For build orders, Liquidpedia is your friend. In regards to control groups, I believe Day9 talked about having your front four control groups on 1-4, but for the rest of your zerg army, you position them in groups of 12 behind the hotkey-ed groups. So then when you go for the attack, you select the back non-hotkeyed groups to attack first, and then the hotkeyed ones.
Go easy on yourself. It's a steep learning curve, but it's an awesome game. One thing to get really good advice is to find a race and stick with it for a bit because it's a little hard to advice when you're up in the air on which race to play. In addition, there is a lot of threads entitled "SC2 transitioning to BW HELP!" etc. Look at some of those threads as they are loaded with useful tips.
For beating ai, make sure you're playing on good proleague maps. Beating ai at a beginning level with Zerg is freaking hard with old Blizzard maps because there's no natural expansion that any modern zerg will use. (Very little one base tech going on here.)
Keep in mind that the way the AI plays is very different from what a standard game will look like. The builds it will use are very allinish by modern standards, meaning you pretty much defend an early push and easily overpower it with macro from there.
Also, practice some of that 1t2t3t1a2a3a with another group of medics following closely!
Keep in mind that terran is generally regarded as the most mechanically difficult race
you can set hotkey "spots" as mentioned above by using shift-F1-3 (someone will correct me) - use them on your barracks and on a place on the map to quickly change rally points by flicking between your production and the spot
if BW ladder is too taxing then definately play some BGH/money maps AND the huge multitude of other UMS maps (multiplayer rpgs, challenges, micro arenas) as they are awesome
On November 29 2011 08:01 Frostfire wrote: Hello TL,
I just bought and installed Brood War, due to everyone saying it's such a great game and I'm missing out if I don't play it.
THIS GAME IS FRIGHTENING. So much multitasking, no building multi-select, no auto mine, and the worst one to me is, NO BIG CONTROL GROUPS. If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?! I haven't installed any ladders yet, I still can't beat a computer with any of the races! I think I like Terran the most though, that sexy medic. I hate how you cant stim with a medic in your control group though! Hopefully I will get the hang of this scary game. Any tips about installing ladders, build orders, general strategy or unit counters would be much appreciated as I can't even beat the a.i!
I will keep updated on my progress
You send more than 24 zerglings using more than 2 hotkeys. Takes mad skillz.
Terran is usually regarded as the hardest race when starting. Either way, you're faced with a massive learning curve to competency. Getting D+ on iccup 2 summers ago required more hard work and practice than any of my sc2 promotions! Good luck!
Thanks guys! My friend told me there was a map where you got to control 3 photon cannons on 1,2, and 3 where you shoot at medics running by. He says it will help my micro a lot, anyone know where I can get this?
That's just how the game works. I'm not sure what you mean by 'installing ladders' but you can go to iccup.com to make an account/play on their private server. Although beating a computer is easy (they do similar builds all the time so just think of a counter e.g. firebats for zealot rushes). I also recommend watching Proleague (Videos>BWVods on TL page) so that you can learn the current game style (why T's don't use firebats against zealots even though it seems intuitive at first.) If you don't like the Korean casters watch some old videos casted in English.
You need to get used to the controls. Learn how to employ all the keyboard buttons: F2/F3... , CTRL groups, Shortcuts (e.g. T for stim, S for SCVs, etc). Focus on learning what each unit does, unit counters, tech tree, current meta game: no point blindly following builds without knowing the purpose/weaknesses: e.g. post hatch zergling all-ins vs. 1rax FE., and so on. Do not get into the mind set that you should play computers before real opponents. Real players are not predictable like computers.
On November 29 2011 08:14 FFGenerations wrote: you can set hotkey "spots" as mentioned above by using shift-F1-3 (someone will correct me) - use them on your barracks and on a place on the map to quickly change rally points by flicking between your production and the spot
if BW ladder is too taxing then definately play some BGH/money maps AND the huge multitude of other UMS maps (multiplayer rpgs, challenges, micro arenas) as they are awesome
F2 to F4. But yeah, I don't think I would start laddering unless I could beat a computer. Alternatively, if you can find a friend that is learning around the same level as you, that's always fun. Most of my BW recruitments is through LAN games of 2v2v1 where we pair of weaker partners with stronger ones. That might not always be reasonable, but I cannot emphasize enough how fun big multiplayer games can be with even a couple friends you know.
Playing against computers is grind work. And while I was told to beat 3 Terrans to work on my macro/ multi-tasking skills, for someone starting out I think playing against people is much more fun.
On November 29 2011 08:17 Frostfire wrote: Thanks guys! My friend told me there was a map where you got to control 3 photon cannons on 1,2, and 3 where you shoot at medics running by. He says it will help my micro a lot, anyone know where I can get this?
You should really focus on macro first (just like SC2). If you really want to play terran a certain bit of micro is necessary, but you should really focus on perfecting a build order and good macro first.
I meant maps to install/download whatever, I'm new so I don't know much, I just know I've seen people playing on maps I can't seem to find Dx. Another thing I hate so far about this game is the damned blacked out fog of war! If I'm new, how am I supposed to know where my opponent spawns?! The good thing about sc2 is that even with blacked out fog of war there is a map preview so I can see all the spawn positions rofl.
On November 29 2011 08:17 Frostfire wrote: Thanks guys! My friend told me there was a map where you got to control 3 photon cannons on 1,2, and 3 where you shoot at medics running by. He says it will help my micro a lot, anyone know where I can get this?
Yes, that's the map I was talking about, I can't remember the name for the life of me though. when I get home I can look in my folders if someone else hasn't helped you out.
Terran, Zerg, and Protoss all have different easy and hard points on the learning curve. Terran is probably the hardest to initially control but it's not a very fancy race...your unit compositions are generally similar across matchups.
On November 29 2011 08:20 Frostfire wrote: I meant maps to install/download whatever, I'm new so I don't know much, I just know I've seen people playing on maps I can't seem to find Dx. Another thing I hate so far about this game is the damned blacked out fog of war! If I'm new, how am I supposed to know where my opponent spawns?! The good thing about sc2 is that even with blacked out fog of war there is a map preview so I can see all the spawn positions rofl.
When you're online, you can mouse over the name of the map - or in the general area, and there's text that says "map preview"
Otherwise single-player --> Black Sheep Wall it up.
I didn't know about the map preview thing! Thanks! The only map I know a little about is destination and lost temple, destination because the only memorable game to me of the bo3 between CombatEz and Chill was on it, and Lost Temple because it's Lost Temple.
On November 29 2011 08:20 Frostfire wrote: I meant maps to install/download whatever, I'm new so I don't know much, I just know I've seen people playing on maps I can't seem to find Dx. Another thing I hate so far about this game is the damned blacked out fog of war! If I'm new, how am I supposed to know where my opponent spawns?! The good thing about sc2 is that even with blacked out fog of war there is a map preview so I can see all the spawn positions rofl.
Edit: Even if there was blacked out fog of war *
Go to iCCup. They have a big button that says How to Start or something like that. You download iCCup, but they also have a map-pack to download.
Whenever I add a map to my repetoire, I just play against the computer a couple times to get a feel for it and then start laddering. If you want to find games in a hurry, the big 3 seem to be Fighting Spirit, Python, and Destination (and sometimes Tau Crossing?). However, I've just started playing Match Point and Crossfire and really have been enjoying it
The nice thing about iCCup is you can focus in on one or two maps and play the hell out of them. So at the beginning, yeah that black fog is a nuisance, but it's a lot more easier to get good at an individual map than SC2 which will feed you random maps (despite downvoting.) You want to get better at Fighting Spirit? Just host it again and again and watch as people flock in.
(If you do host, you'll probably have to port forward, however. One of those things that is not mentioned anywhere on iCCup and yet is very necessary.)
Oh yeah. As another mentioned, in single player you can just use the cheat Black Sheep Wall to get rid of the fog to figure out what the map looks like.
Have you tried the campaign ? Why the mission are a bit dated in the gameplay, the story is pretty cool and it's an easier introduction to the game =) As for the computer, its rush can be pretty scary, but he has 2 strat max so once you figure out a method...^^
I beat the Terran missions of the original. I tried to get into the zerg missions, and after beating like the first 4 (the last one I beat was the one where Kerrigan pops) I realized I hate the playstyle of the race and I wanted to play Terran again I really love science vessels, although accidently casting defense matrix with FOUR Science Vessels at once is extremely annoying >
What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
If that makes you feel better, Jaedong doesn't use is far away keys because his hands are too small. And yeah, you'll need adjustements from SC, but the thing is, mechanics are hard for everybody. Have you watched a few progames to get a feel of how the races are played at a high level ? Edit : very happy to see a 14 years old try it and not reject the graphics :D
I only watched the Chill vs CombatEx showmatch cast by Day[9]. I literally have never seen any other matches. I don't judge games by their graphics haha, as long as they work and you can distinguish things from one another it's a good game to me (:
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
i got tiny hands too, can't even reach ctrl+6 comfortably in games xd you got a long ways to go, but I'm a perennial D and the game is still enjoyable for me! I just play with friends or play UMS, and follow the proscene, don't really play competitively hehe If you want to get better, lots of people willing to help you out with the basics on TL! Good luck!
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
I don't main Terran, but to be honest, 0 to 's' is more than I can stretch too. Rather than trying to stretch, I just use pointer-pinky and move that extra inch to the left. But I don't know the proper way. I don't think there's many people that have fingers long enough to do it properly (without having bear paws.)
Edit Only seen the Chill grudge match??? You need to check out a couple threads on recommended games- maybe Jangbi vs Fantasy or something. Or perhaps for English casting, some old GOMtv Tasteless casts.
the funny thing is that, when sc2 came out, i freakin motherfuckin loathed the queen inject "mechanic" which to me is completely utterly pointless part of gameplay. now sc2 players like yourself are feeling the same way about unit selection and macro :D
Posts like this make my day everytime. <3 Atleast you know that its ctrl+# I thought it was shift+# and for the first two months played like a scrub, without hotkeys.
Oh, I remember Stylish has some very basic tips on hotkeys and stuff. this VOD is pretty helpful for Terran if I remember well :
I'd advise you to watch a few progames in each match up to, to see how each match up plays out. Maybe watch Sayle casting PL live. And yeah, don't hesitate to ask for help, I'm sure many people would love to help you =) Edit : and yeah I've seen that showmatch like 10 times and showed it to friends that don't play sc... <3 day9
On November 29 2011 08:01 Frostfire wrote: Hello TL,
I just bought and installed Brood War, due to everyone saying it's such a great game and I'm missing out if I don't play it.
THIS GAME IS FRIGHTENING. So much multitasking, no building multi-select, no auto mine, and the worst one to me is, NO BIG CONTROL GROUPS. If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?! I haven't installed any ladders yet, I still can't beat a computer with any of the races! I think I like Terran the most though, that sexy medic. I hate how you cant stim with a medic in your control group though! Hopefully I will get the hang of this scary game. Any tips about installing ladders, build orders, general strategy or unit counters would be much appreciated as I can't even beat the a.i!
I will keep updated on my progress
You send more than 24 zerglings using more than 2 hotkeys. Takes mad skillz.
Terran is usually regarded as the hardest race when starting. Either way, you're faced with a massive learning curve to competency. Getting D+ on iccup 2 summers ago required more hard work and practice than any of my sc2 promotions! Good luck!
D+ is basically mid masters in Sc2 lol. I was low D+ in Brood War (2100 points) and went immediately to diamond and then masters when it came out, and I don't pretend to be good at the game by any means.
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
I have very small hands too, but I played bw back when I was like 9 and my hands were even smaller. I learned to jump across the keyboard and accurately hit the far numbers. I use the right control key to bind stuff to them so there's no need to stretch and it becomes a matter of speed and accuracy instead. Now it's very easy for me to use them without much thought. I have no idea how long it may take to be learn how to do this, but it's something I pretty much had to learn in bw and you may want to consider doing it this way rather than stretching. Even now, I actually can't bind stuff to 9 and 0 without this method.
Oh, about workers, is there any tricks I can do to remember to assign? Now I'll randomly look and see 2 SCVs sitting there. And how can I split my workers in the beginning faster? I heard you had to assign all 4 to individual places to mine, in stead of the 3/3 split I do in sc2
On November 29 2011 08:20 Frostfire wrote: I meant maps to install/download whatever, I'm new so I don't know much, I just know I've seen people playing on maps I can't seem to find Dx. Another thing I hate so far about this game is the damned blacked out fog of war! If I'm new, how am I supposed to know where my opponent spawns?! The good thing about sc2 is that even with blacked out fog of war there is a map preview so I can see all the spawn positions rofl.
Edit: Even if there was blacked out fog of war *
Good thing about iccup ladder is there is only 2 maps you need to know. Fighting Spirit and Python. haha.
Fighting Spirit is just so good for straight up play, no fancy features, easy to get 3rd 4th 5th, that everyone plays on it.
On November 29 2011 09:23 Frostfire wrote: Oh, about workers, is there any tricks I can do to remember to assign? Now I'll randomly look and see 2 SCVs sitting there. And how can I split my workers in the beginning faster? I heard you had to assign all 4 to individual places to mine, in stead of the 3/3 split I do in sc2
Send all your workers to mine and select each one individually and select a patch, there's no real trick to it, just gotta be fast. Even I stuff it up 50% of the time.
worker split is not something you should even be focusing on as of yet. Just acquaintance yourself with the units, what they do, their shortkeys, then you can start thinking about build orders, and building placements, etc...
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
If you use F3 for your CC instead (you are going to rally your scv anyway) you can free up closer hotkeys for your comsats.
Or you can always make comsats 6,7 and not use 890. Just means you have to simcity better so you can click your starport without scrolling too much or put your starports on 89.
On November 29 2011 09:36 Frostfire wrote: I also hate the fucking marine hotkey. .-.
I'm the opposite actually lol, I hotkey my first few barracks on 678 which is much easier to access M than A. In the late game my pinkie gets tired from pressing A all the time, M is much more ergonomic :D
On November 29 2011 09:38 corumjhaelen wrote: Marine, muta overlord, probe and pylon hotkey are just annoying as hell^^
Probe is good if you Nexus on 09. 0p9p is much faster than 4s5s. Corsair/Observer is O which makes stargate/robo on 8 really good too. Frees up 1234567 for groups. Also nothing worse than pressing V for an inject only to realise you have made overlords (or visa-versa), and maybe MMA killed his own CC because he wanted to make marines
On November 29 2011 08:42 Frostfire wrote: I only watched the Chill vs CombatEx showmatch cast by Day[9]. I literally have never seen any other matches. I don't judge games by their graphics haha, as long as they work and you can distinguish things from one another it's a good game to me (:
If that's the case, then I certainly recommend you watch some VOD and possibly look for comments/analysis based on the matches (featured articles) or better yet if your up watch some Pro League and join the chat/LR thread as there are a lot of people who can tell you actually what happened in the match on the fly. That way you get to learn some of the basics and see what the pro's do right away.
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
That's irrelevant at the moment. Right now you have to learn some of the basics, so that you aren't playing in the dark so much. =)
dont bother practicing splits, just try to make it so that three of your four starting peons go to different patches. doing this ensures that you get the 6th peon started as early as possible - beyond that it doesn't really matter.
main piece of advice is, allllllllllways do something. do everything as fast as you can, all the time,and never stop doing something.
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
It matter what you are in sc2, if you havent really played brood war before it's going to shock you because of things like control groups and automatic mining. You'll probably land up with the keyboard and mouse symbol (lower than D-) if you go into the ladder and cant even beat the computer.
I've played masters who look like total noobs in bw because mechanics are a lot more important here. You could win games with just pure macro even if your strat made no sense what so ever.
Get comfy with you could join a clan and practice with people there, or just play with the computer till you get comfortable while practicing a build a match up. Alternatively...you can create as many accounts as you can...so try to execute a build, if you go below a particular rank where no one wants to play, just create another account
The funniest part of sc2 people playing broodwar is to watch terran go mass bio against toss
On November 29 2011 08:01 Frostfire wrote: Hello TL,
I just bought and installed Brood War, due to everyone saying it's such a great game and I'm missing out if I don't play it.
THIS GAME IS FRIGHTENING. So much multitasking, no building multi-select, no auto mine, and the worst one to me is, NO BIG CONTROL GROUPS. If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?! I haven't installed any ladders yet, I still can't beat a computer with any of the races! I think I like Terran the most though, that sexy medic. I hate how you cant stim with a medic in your control group though! Hopefully I will get the hang of this scary game. Any tips about installing ladders, build orders, general strategy or unit counters would be much appreciated as I can't even beat the a.i!
I will keep updated on my progress
You send more than 24 zerglings using more than 2 hotkeys. Takes mad skillz.
Terran is usually regarded as the hardest race when starting. Either way, you're faced with a massive learning curve to competency. Getting D+ on iccup 2 summers ago required more hard work and practice than any of my sc2 promotions! Good luck!
Nope. Hand micro everything. Hotkey lurkers, mutas, (queens), defilers only
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
It matter what you are in sc2, if you havent really played brood war before it's going to shock you because of things like control groups and automatic mining. You'll probably land up with the keyboard and mouse symbol (lower than D-) if you go into the ladder and cant even beat the computer.
I've played masters who look like total noobs in bw because mechanics are a lot more important here. You could win games with just pure macro even if your strat made no sense what so ever.
Get comfy with you could join a clan and practice with people there, or just play with the computer till you get comfortable while practicing a build a match up. Alternatively...you can create as many accounts as you can...so try to execute a build, if you go below a particular rank where no one wants to play, just create another account
The funniest part of sc2 people playing broodwar is to watch terran go mass bio against toss
To be fair, that's actually a really easy way to win a lot of TvPs ~D/D+ if you have good macro. Nobody knows how to play against it, and suddenly their 12 dragoons and 1 zealot dies to 2 control groups of mnm ^^
On November 29 2011 09:36 Frostfire wrote: I also hate the fucking marine hotkey. .-.
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
Very low D-.
To OP: I'll be honest, it took me a good month of grinding iccup games for me to reach a solid D level. I was moving up to D+ but my macro wasn't flawless and it felt like it was taking forever so I kinda quit. BW requires a TON of commitment, because if you stop practicing for even a month you can slip pretty far (unless you're NonY, of course).
You should also start watching proleague. It's actually on at a decent hour this year for some reason! And the more games you play on iccup/brain/fish, the more impressed you'll be by Flash and Bisu. Jaedong used to be crazy good as well but he's fallen off a bit lately after his transition/vacation to Team 8.
You should be using all 10 of your hotkeys and all of your F-key screens (I think you can make 4). Also remember that you can shift+# to add units to a hotkey. Instead of #, select more units, ctrl+#. Just select more units and shift+#.
Double tapping a hotkey centers the camera on the middle of the unit group. So if you have two mutas on opposite corners of the map (or a muta and a larva) and they're on the same hotkey, when you double tap (or maybe alt+tap too?) the center will move to the middle of the map. Usually it centers on the units because they are clumped when you actually use the hotkeys.
And if you play P, use 0,9 for your Nexus so you can 0p9p. Some people use 9 for robo so they can 9o0p, but I find you don't really need that many observers.
Also get used to jumping your hand around the keyboard. Build pylon is b->p, marines are m and zealot legspeed is l.
On November 29 2011 10:26 synapse wrote: To be fair, that's actually a really easy way to win a lot of TvPs ~D/D+ if you have good macro. Nobody knows how to play against it, and suddenly their 12 dragoons and 1 zealot dies to 2 control groups of mnm ^^
Archons+zealots? Zealots and ht shuttles? Reavers?
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
It matter what you are in sc2, if you havent really played brood war before it's going to shock you because of things like control groups and automatic mining. You'll probably land up with the keyboard and mouse symbol (lower than D-) if you go into the ladder and cant even beat the computer.
I've played masters who look like total noobs in bw because mechanics are a lot more important here. You could win games with just pure macro even if your strat made no sense what so ever.
Get comfy with you could join a clan and practice with people there, or just play with the computer till you get comfortable while practicing a build a match up. Alternatively...you can create as many accounts as you can...so try to execute a build, if you go below a particular rank where no one wants to play, just create another account
The funniest part of sc2 people playing broodwar is to watch terran go mass bio against toss
Bio against Toss isn't bad. I see a lot of SC2 players going bio TvT though heh
On November 29 2011 13:50 sluggaslamoo wrote: Bio against Toss isn't bad. I see a lot of SC2 players going bio TvT though heh
I really hope i'm just not getting the sarcasm
No it's true. If you're not used to it, bio can wreck a Protoss who just went goons. I think there was a specific build, Deep Six that used bio. It's just not terribly popular.
On November 29 2011 09:17 Frostfire wrote: I'm only low plat, I should be gold in sc2. Where would that put me?
It matter what you are in sc2, if you havent really played brood war before it's going to shock you because of things like control groups and automatic mining. You'll probably land up with the keyboard and mouse symbol (lower than D-) if you go into the ladder and cant even beat the computer.
I've played masters who look like total noobs in bw because mechanics are a lot more important here. You could win games with just pure macro even if your strat made no sense what so ever.
Get comfy with you could join a clan and practice with people there, or just play with the computer till you get comfortable while practicing a build a match up. Alternatively...you can create as many accounts as you can...so try to execute a build, if you go below a particular rank where no one wants to play, just create another account
The funniest part of sc2 people playing broodwar is to watch terran go mass bio against toss
Bio against Toss isn't bad. I see a lot of SC2 players going bio TvT though heh
I could never hit newly switched SC2 players going bio against me out of nowhere (well, I probably hit a lot of them but as I'm zerg, they would go bio against me anyway so it's not "out of nowhere").
Also, I heard that HiyA anti-carrier build is pretty good. Build is:
1- Scout Carriers 2- Cancel 3rd factory 3- Put down 4 rax ASAP 4- Make M&M against something that has 4 base armor 5- Upgrade them 6- ??? 7- Win against a Protoss using some 4 base armor flying units, psionic storms, DTs (that 1-shot marines) and reavers. I think he also used a maelstrom somewhere in this.
Frostfire that puts you at D- until you get some decent idea of how to control large armies, macro properly, and know some build orders. Even after then you will probably lose over half your games.
deep 6 is a 12 year old outdated strategy. it specifically refers to a build popularized by heartcutter through his battlereports describing it, before replays ever existed.
but bio can certainly work tvp, as long as it's timed correctly and catches protoss off guard. basically reavers and storm slaughter bio, but upgraded mm destroys goon/zealot. it also used to be legitimately really good on certain maps without easily accessible gas naturals, like nostalgia.
On November 29 2011 18:19 rauk wrote: deep 6 is an allin that hopes to hit before storm, or hope he doesn't have reavers
You can beat both Storm and Reavers with bio. When I'm smurfing I would go SKTerran against Toss and use Science Vessels to irradiate High Templar (you could use emp but irradiate is more fun). Reavers are much harder, you need atleast 1 Tank and you need to run away every time the scarab shoots, causing it to dud (maybe ill add lockdown into my repertoire).
At the pro-level though UpMagic was the only one who would open bio as a legitimate strategy quite a few games, and he went to the dark side
Why don't I remember control groups and auto mining being such a nightmare. Granted I've only played SC 1998 - 2000 but I don't remember those being the problems, though I was never that good at it. I remember playing at a LAN and getting owned by DTs as Zerg but I can't figure out how that happened with ovies being detectors. Think it was a rush of sorts.
Maybe it was because I was playing a ton of Warcraft 2 back then and C&C and Red Alert.
Though I'm pretty sure I'd die to AI nowadays even as Terran on BGH abusing supply wall mechanic.
Protoss is least APM intensive for beginners, it's also easier to beat AI with imo. For terran you can just wall yourself in, expand to expo, mass tanks, and harass with vultures. A good thing to practice is to try to max out your army before the 20 minute mark, then go for 15.
Another thing: when you have critical mass in units, get rid of your building hotkeys (except for key ones like comsat), and use location hotkeys where your production units are. This helps a lot with late game micro/macro.
^^ Go to the iccup website, and you can download all the popular maps from there. It's on the iccup ladder map pack. Extract it to your maps in the brood war directory.
These should defend you against most of the stuff D players do, until you get better mechanics you will need to have more units in the early game to compensate. Once you get better you will find yourself expanding earlier with less units and can move onto Flash build/1 Rax FE.
In the meantime you don't want to just keep dying to 2 gate dragoon and 2 hatch lurker. Both builds also encourage moving out early on and dictating the game, which means you are less likely to get contained, or lose to non-standard builds.
On November 29 2011 08:01 Frostfire wrote:If I wanna play Zerg, how the hell am I gonna send a force of more then 24 zerglings running in at a line into the scary Terran seige tank - bunker base?!
On November 29 2011 08:36 Frostfire wrote: What sucks is in Sc2 I always hotkey my CC on 5,in BW I keep seeting CC to 5 and just try to scan off of that D: now I'm kinda getting the hang of having comsats on 8,9 and 0, but since I'm only 14 my hands are stretching to hit those keys.
I used to have this problem too with hitting keys 7-0 and 'm'. Try using your thumb to hit those keys. It really helps that you don't need to pivot or shift your entire hand to build marines or mutas, while still being able to keep the rest of your fingers on 1-3. If you comsat all 7-0, you don't need to precisely hit a specific one (at least I don't). I just throw my finger in that general area and it will be one of those keys.
I'm not sure, but I'll tell you a secret. Don't play on Lost Temple ! It's an old map that is not very good nor balanced. If you want something with a similar feel, go for Python. I'd advise playing at least Fighting Spirit in term of standardness.
EPT
And if you find the medic already sexy... wait for the valkyrie. I fucking love her 
but don't give up, because winning your first Iccup game is the best feeling in the world.
I really love science vessels, although accidently casting defense matrix with FOUR Science Vessels at once is extremely annoying >
![[image loading]](http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/4868410/view/1/type/png/width/280/height/280)
