• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:54
CET 13:54
KST 21:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool43Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast Soulkey's decision to leave C9 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ JaeDong's form before ASL
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2689 users

Why am I terrible? - Page 2

Blogs > Infernux
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Jonas :)
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States511 Posts
November 28 2011 01:23 GMT
#21
Focus less on "I need to be playing quicker" and more on "what do I need to be doing?" It is OK to lay down some force fields, go back to your base and warp in units and then go back to the fight. We're not all Liquid`Hero, we can't be everywhere at once. You can easily get to masters with less than 70 APM.
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
November 28 2011 02:32 GMT
#22
Sounds like you're cheesing a lot? 4 gate warp prism and 5 gate all in? I'm not saying cheesing is a bad way to play when an opponent who overbuilds on defenses kind of scrapes you later on.

The biggest ways to get better are to
1. Scout better. You should know everything that could be thrown at you at as many different points in time as possible.
2. Expand the scope of your play. (I hate saying macro better because it literally means 15+ different things) You game plan should involve either a supremely crisp 2 base push, or 3 base outlines. By this I mean you should have a good idea of when you can afford an expand based off of x gateways/tech paths. Your game plan should be very well thought out and planned. Are you going colo? Double forge? Templar tech? When do you get buildings? If zerg gets a fast 4th, should you expand again or chrono a lot of units and attack? There are 20+ questions to ask yourself and figure out.

To compare, when you look at a set of pvts, and your pre-game plan was colosses, every game should start falling into a category, and games in that category should look mirror. That is, for me, a terran player, my tvps against a player who goes 1 gate, expand, 6:30 robo,(finishing at 7:20) into collosses look damn similar. By the 15-16 minute mark, I know exactly how many rax, ccs, starports i have, as well as how my upgrades are doing and such.

tl:dr, Assuming you're capable of a perfect 10:00 game(the end result is optimal/close to it even if x occurs), you should aim to be capable of a perfect 20:00 game.
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
November 28 2011 02:35 GMT
#23
im a macro player =p as a terran what I do is just fast expand and work on spending my resources and stuff from there on, as someone stated earlier the game changes as you progress up. Remember to always scout though thats key you can keep that multitask up its really easy =)! Also if you lose dont quit just hit find game again keep playing over and over, if you lost a longer game to something other than cheese then analyze the rep.

basically FE your heart out like i do ahahaha
troi oi thang map nai!!!
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6260 Posts
November 28 2011 02:46 GMT
#24
It's actually quite simple - your APM is too fast - that means you're focusing on doing fast things but then missing key elements. Concentrate on playing right, rather than fast.
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 04:55:24
November 28 2011 04:53 GMT
#25
On November 28 2011 09:58 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 07:57 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:47 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:29 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:21 Sfydjklm wrote:
Also a lot of people claim the right way to practice is to try to get everything down perfectly starting at early leagues and even if it takes you longer you're better in the long run.
I think that's extremely wrong assumption and you should recognize the pattern in gold player's style and abuse it as hard as you can. The game changes completely several times on the way to the top so whatever you learn in gold will generally be less relevant in masters. Not to mention that the game is new enough for new strategies to pop up every couple of weeks possibly making what you learned as "the proper way to play" improper


I do agree with abusing the way people play in lower leagues (the "wrong" ways, aka inefficient) but (correct me if you aren't) I would not support adapting just to win vs X skill/league just because the metagame will always be different as you get better. If you truly have a great game sense, you should play the way pros do and also learn how to punish the lower leagues' mistakes.

You're right but the gaps between Masters, top 8 masters, top 50 GM, top 20 gm, top 10 gm, pro, etc are HUUUUGE.
Scaling the gap between me and Idra takes a lot more effort then scaling the gap between me and #100 bronzie.
Basically the way i feel everything below top 8 masters is "throw-away" and you should try to get there asap to get at least in the ballpark of proper play.


Oh, I see the point you're making. Because you won't actually be able to practice against good opponents to actually learn the "proper" ways, you shouldn't focus on things ahead of your time, you mean? I can see that. I guess if you don't have friends or practice partners or clannies etc. that can help you then it is an option. But if you watch pro games I think you could still focus on things like macro, cus even if your opponents play badly you are improving on macro which will help later when you can focus on decision making / game sense.

But macro doesnt really exist in a vacuum. You macroing depends on how well you defend against attacks.
But i'm not saying don't macro, i'm saying dont worry your pretty little head with playing perfect off the bat. Pick a pro strategy to copy and do it every game until you get bored to the best of your ability.


This pretty much. Macro is much like any qualitative-aspect based hobby - it's based on conscience. There should always be that nagging feeling of "have to go back, make stuff". The more you have that feeling, the better you get at macro.

As for messing up, you gotta take it in stride. Keep your head in the game and also know what it means to do this build at this stage of the game against your opponent's build. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to make sure this hits them in the gut so they can't recover? How sustainable is your economy? Is it meant to transition into a safer build or into a contain? If you know this ahead of time for sure, then you can just be like "shit I lost this, well I can use X to make up for that" and get to your goals anyways. If you don't have a goal and you get derailed it's like "fuuu what the hell do I do now" which leads to snowballing.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 04:55:05
November 28 2011 04:54 GMT
#26
On November 28 2011 13:53 ymir233 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 09:58 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 28 2011 07:57 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:47 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:29 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On November 28 2011 06:21 Sfydjklm wrote:
Also a lot of people claim the right way to practice is to try to get everything down perfectly starting at early leagues and even if it takes you longer you're better in the long run.
I think that's extremely wrong assumption and you should recognize the pattern in gold player's style and abuse it as hard as you can. The game changes completely several times on the way to the top so whatever you learn in gold will generally be less relevant in masters. Not to mention that the game is new enough for new strategies to pop up every couple of weeks possibly making what you learned as "the proper way to play" improper


I do agree with abusing the way people play in lower leagues (the "wrong" ways, aka inefficient) but (correct me if you aren't) I would not support adapting just to win vs X skill/league just because the metagame will always be different as you get better. If you truly have a great game sense, you should play the way pros do and also learn how to punish the lower leagues' mistakes.

You're right but the gaps between Masters, top 8 masters, top 50 GM, top 20 gm, top 10 gm, pro, etc are HUUUUGE.
Scaling the gap between me and Idra takes a lot more effort then scaling the gap between me and #100 bronzie.
Basically the way i feel everything below top 8 masters is "throw-away" and you should try to get there asap to get at least in the ballpark of proper play.


Oh, I see the point you're making. Because you won't actually be able to practice against good opponents to actually learn the "proper" ways, you shouldn't focus on things ahead of your time, you mean? I can see that. I guess if you don't have friends or practice partners or clannies etc. that can help you then it is an option. But if you watch pro games I think you could still focus on things like macro, cus even if your opponents play badly you are improving on macro which will help later when you can focus on decision making / game sense.

But macro doesnt really exist in a vacuum. You macroing depends on how well you defend against attacks.
But i'm not saying don't macro, i'm saying dont worry your pretty little head with playing perfect off the bat. Pick a pro strategy to copy and do it every game until you get bored to the best of your ability.


This pretty much. Macro is much like any qualitative-aspect based hobby - it's based on conscience. There should always be that nagging feeling of "have to go back, make stuff". The more you have that feeling, the better you get at macro.

As for messing up, you gotta take it in stride. Keep your head in the game and also know what it means to do this build at this stage of the game against your opponent's build. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to make sure this hits them in the gut so they can't recover? How sustainable is your economy? Is it meant to transition into a safer build or into a contain? If you know this ahead of time for sure, then you can just be like "shit I lost this, well I can use X to make up for that" and get to your goals anyways. If you don't have a goal and you get derailed it's like "fuuu what the hell do I do now" which leads to snowballing.


Fuuu mods delete please
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #124
herO vs ClassicLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings216
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko416
SortOf 150
ProTech135
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47656
Calm 9519
Bisu 3363
GuemChi 811
firebathero 553
BeSt 523
EffOrt 418
Stork 364
Larva 297
Light 291
[ Show more ]
Snow 290
Shuttle 254
actioN 242
Mini 213
Soma 206
Zeus 195
ZerO 190
Leta 151
Pusan 138
Rush 129
ggaemo 97
sSak 92
HiyA 90
Mind 80
Killer 74
ToSsGirL 70
Sea.KH 66
Sharp 52
PianO 46
Barracks 34
Free 29
Nal_rA 27
Hm[arnc] 23
Shinee 21
[sc1f]eonzerg 21
sorry 20
GoRush 19
yabsab 18
Bale 18
Terrorterran 17
IntoTheRainbow 17
soO 14
Noble 11
Movie 8
Backho 7
ivOry 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4702
BananaSlamJamma158
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1955
x6flipin516
zeus495
edward63
markeloff50
Other Games
singsing2116
B2W.Neo719
XBOCT421
shoxiejesuss406
hiko321
crisheroes303
Sick167
Livibee61
QueenE58
ArmadaUGS42
Trikslyr22
Rex14
ZerO(Twitch)2
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
StarCastTV_EN60
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream57
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 15
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
11h 6m
Replay Cast
20h 6m
Afreeca Starleague
21h 6m
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
22h 6m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
KCM Race Survival
1d 20h
The PondCast
1d 21h
WardiTV Team League
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
OSC
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-23
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.