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Having bought the game on release day, I just got promoted to Diamond.
The problem is I'm still terrible. I don't make or use sentry GS or FF because I have incredibly low APM. I pretty much make a deathball on 3 bases and 1A it at the opponent when I max out. I substitute my inability to deal with drops for 2 cannons at each mineral line. I don't scout because I don't know what to look for. And so on.
So now I feel I have no way to measure improvement, since I'm unlikely to ever be Masters but apparently I didn't need to use all the basics RTS tools to get diamond. If I get fast enough to use sentries maybe my points will go up by 100? But they will anyway due to bonus pool, and same with my division rank if I play enough.
 
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Just play more often if your problem is speed.
What to look for - I guess it's just up to experience/more games.
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Well, to be honest, I don't have any of theese problems, I'm high gold, not that it matters though. What league I'm in says something about my play - I'm missing something, just like you are.
Now, first of all you say you don't use sentries, FF or GS. That's how I win most of my matches. I go for fast expands all the time and bring some stalkers, sentries and zealots up to my oponent while teching. Of course, if he walls in I go quick robo first (to check for 1-1-1 or cloaked banshee), else I try to bait him down and FF him out.
My little trick is binding all the sentries in one control group, like 5 or 6. This allows you to tap into them with one click, hit f-click, f-click, f-click or g if you desire, then hit 1 and you back to you're army. To add new sentries you hit 5 or 6, then shift-click the new sentries and ctrl-5 or ctrl-6.
How I learned this is basic - I just play against the AI, trying to get mechanics straight. I play against insane and try to survive as long as I can with sentries etc while I focus a lot on my forcefields and switching between sentries and main army. I also make a controlgroup for zealots later in the game, which allows me to better make them take damage.
Second of all you say you have low APM. I just started spamming. At the start I just move everything as fast as I can while still getting it right. If you just do this all the time in the end it will go on for longer into the game. You will get used to the keybindings and such at high speed. It's all about repetition.
Two cannons at each mineral-line is a bit heavy. Thing with lower leagues is that while protoss is deathballing they drop with larger parts of their army than progamers (atleast how I experience it) so it takes out way more than it should. I like poking and prodding alot. I go out, send up a probe/zealot and see what's at my oponents base, I have two observers on each side of my base, I always get blink early in macro games and keep two stalkers on patrol at my perimeters. This is not hard to achieve. Once a drop is spotted, position that one stalker right, warp in more, snipe. Or High-templars if you like. This is also a skill to learn - WATCH YOUR MINIMAP. Like I said, I'm gold, mostly because I play at such a high speed I forget stuff all the time. While my mechanics and micro are ok, my macro fails so bad it's horrendeus to watch. I mean, some games I just straight up push while expanding against players doing 1-base-all-ins and crush them, sometimes I lose against players with under 15 APM. I'm a terrible and really unconsistent player.
You don't scout? Well, first of all it's important to see what your opponent is doing. Think about 1-1-1's if you 1gateroboexpand or something. It would be terrible not to take the trouble sending an observer up. That way you can bring sentries and keep him there. The first probe is to check for gas. Single gas means different things in different matchups, maybe quick stim, helions or more. Two gas means aggresion. For protoss it might be 4 gate robo, 3 gate blink etc, terran it's probably some marine/marauder slow/stim all in, maybe a 1-1-1. MIND YOU, I'M GOLD, THIS IS WHAT I FACE! 
My advice to you is to watch Day9, play a lot of matches, train with a friend that's good (make him go either this or that, then you try to guess during the game which one he is going. That way you will find what's special for that style. Also watch people streaming other classes than you're own - I myself play random on a smurfaccount to "keep myself in the metagame" so to speak. I watch streams, train a lot without playing ladder etc, though just for fun.
Hope this helps a bit, even coming from a gold-scrub
If there's anything else, MMGInfernux.925 for more.
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I am most impressed by the fact you made it diamond not scouting and not using sentries!
On a more serious note, your problems don't seem to crazy...I believe you just need to play more, this is evident when you say you don't scout because don't know what your seeing. By playing more you are going to realize what the openings lead up too.
For example: Looking at the gas count, if there is no gas, they can't be teching....
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how many games have you played b4 getting to diamond? If the answer is, over 3k, you should probably just quit the game
User was warned for this post
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Thanks for the advice Infernux, that is a lot of writing! (And thanks to the others). I'm going to try playing more and studying signs in my opponents' builds.
@Sic
I've probably played about 1k serious games since launch. I spend a lot more time watching tournaments than playing. You're trolling though.
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On November 28 2011 05:27 Inori wrote:
There would be a problem if you'd think that you're diamond = you're good
Well I had mentally prepared myself such that when I fixed the big holes in my play I described, I would be Diamond. I kind of have no goal now so less motivation to play.
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On November 28 2011 05:26 Soleron wrote:
Thanks for the advice Infernux, that is a lot of writing! (And thanks to the others). I'm going to try playing more and studying signs in my opponents' builds.
@Sic
I've probably played about 1k serious games since launch. I spend a lot more time watching tournaments than playing. You're trolling though.
Meh, I am sort of trolling. But the reality is, you need a lot of games to get to a point where you feel like you aren't a terrible piece of shit. I've played about 3k+ games and I am at high masters now. I am still terrible compared to the pros, but I am at a point where I know how to use all of my units effectively and can identify my problems and fix them.
On the contrary, if you've played 3k+ games and you still have no fucking clue what you're doing, it means you have serious issues in how you approach this game, hence my comment.
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On November 28 2011 05:30 .Sic. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 05:26 Soleron wrote:
Thanks for the advice Infernux, that is a lot of writing! (And thanks to the others). I'm going to try playing more and studying signs in my opponents' builds.
@Sic
I've probably played about 1k serious games since launch. I spend a lot more time watching tournaments than playing. You're trolling though. Meh, I am sort of trolling. But the reality is, you need a lot of games to get to a point where you feel like you aren't a terrible piece of shit. I've played about 3k+ games and I am at high masters now. I am still terrible compared to the pros, but I am at a point where I know how to use all of my units effectively and can identify my problems and fix them.
I also had no experience of any PC games, RTS or otherwise, before SC2. so the first few hundred games were me figuring out what a keyboard was instead of a controller really.
When I get some free time I'll pay for a coaching session from a high Masters player and get an objective description of my problems. Because I could easily be wrong about myself.
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Wow thats actually pretty crazy. Sentries are like one of the main staple units that protoss has, and are basically a requirement at a decent level of play. I seriously think you should take the time to make them and learn to use them.
I think your biggest problem is obviously the speed in which you play the game. If you are never actively working on getting faster with the mouse, then it will never happen. You will continually sit in a rut and play at that speed forever. You need to take steps to get faster. I think this should be what you work on the most, as the things you describe above are really really hindering your play. You should be able to use sentries easily at the diamond level, and stopping drops is as simple as warpgating in units at the drop, and possibly bringing a few back from your army. We are talking about 4-5 clicks maximum. If you cannot train yourself to do 4-5 simple clicks then you are gonna be in a world of trouble trying to get any better.
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Really? I'm hi-plat, and actually started to use sentries somewhat effectively in silver, grinded like hell to get to platinum + my average APM is usually above 100 and I still can't get to diamond (My apm isn't all spamming...)
PS. almost 1k ladder games played.
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Hm, Diamond Protoss here, recently demoted from masters (ca. 1k games played).
I play very few games and feel like having a good understanding of some matchups. In particular, PvT seems to be easy for me, because I seem know exactly how to play. PvP has had a huge metagame-shift in the last month, but most things work out better now as people dont expect them.
In PvZ, I feel like the OP does. I dont understand it, I dont have a clue and lose 95% of my games when not making 7-8 gate all-ins (But I dont really want to play them :/)
But I know from PvT that things can only get better by training it, so as soon as my new processor arrives I will try to mass PvZs in order to get a better understanding of it.
Edit: uh, APM isn't important at all if youre above 10 I got masters with 30-50 apm.
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On November 28 2011 05:46 Watercrystal wrote:Hm, Diamond Protoss here, recently demoted from masters (ca. 1k games played). I play very few games and feel like having a good understanding of some matchups. In particular, PvT seems to be easy for me, because I seem know exactly how to play. PvP has had a huge metagame-shift in the last month, but most things work out better now as people dont expect them. In PvZ, I feel like the OP does. I dont understand it, I dont have a clue and lose 95% of my games when not making 7-8 gate all-ins (But I dont really want to play them :/) But I know from PvT that things can only get better by training it, so as soon as my new processor arrives I will try to mass PvZs in order to get a better understanding of it. Edit: uh, APM isn't important at all if youre above 10 I got masters with 30-50 apm.
7-8 gate all ins can take less than 30 apm, so that explains it.
Good solid play involves multi pronged harass, constant scouting, and good macro. To pull all of that off simultaneously, you definitely need more than 50 apm...
It took me about 200 games to get into diamond and 600 more games to get to masters, so what's your point? You might feel like you have good understanding of PvT and PvP but that just means you know how to deal with T and P at your level. Furthermore, if you don't play that many games, you're not gonna be facing people who are better than you anytime soon,
which is a bigger reason why you shouldn't feel complacent with your skills.
To the OP: It really takes a lot of repetition and drilling to get better mechanics and develop better game sense. Of course after a certain point, you have to start analyzing your replays and figure out where you are making mistakes. But you are not gonna learn how to FF and GS by watching games, you just gotta get out there and actually do it yourself.
Overall, just get a good balance of practice games and analyzing replays (yours and progamer's). If you have a certain build or style of play you are constantly dying against, step away from ladder and find a practice partner. Because on ladder, people will be doing random shit to you every game.
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On November 28 2011 06:32 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 06:00 .Sic. wrote:On November 28 2011 05:46 Watercrystal wrote:Hm, Diamond Protoss here, recently demoted from masters (ca. 1k games played). I play very few games and feel like having a good understanding of some matchups. In particular, PvT seems to be easy for me, because I seem know exactly how to play. PvP has had a huge metagame-shift in the last month, but most things work out better now as people dont expect them. In PvZ, I feel like the OP does. I dont understand it, I dont have a clue and lose 95% of my games when not making 7-8 gate all-ins (But I dont really want to play them :/) But I know from PvT that things can only get better by training it, so as soon as my new processor arrives I will try to mass PvZs in order to get a better understanding of it. Edit: uh, APM isn't important at all if youre above 10 I got masters with 30-50 apm. 7-8 gate all ins can take less than 30 apm, so that explains it. Good solid play involves multi pronged harass, constant scouting, and good macro. To pull all of that off simultaneously, you definitely need more than 50 apm... APM numbers overrated, it really depends on how effectively you spend that apm.. I had 20-30 for the longest time, now up to 50-60 maybe. I hardly cheese or go all-in, most of my games go to 3+ bases
Maybe i dont really understand toss APM cause i play zerg and i have to constantly scroll through base cam for larvae injects and spreading creep
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On November 28 2011 06:40 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 06:37 .Sic. wrote:On November 28 2011 06:32 Inori wrote:On November 28 2011 06:00 .Sic. wrote:On November 28 2011 05:46 Watercrystal wrote:Hm, Diamond Protoss here, recently demoted from masters (ca. 1k games played). I play very few games and feel like having a good understanding of some matchups. In particular, PvT seems to be easy for me, because I seem know exactly how to play. PvP has had a huge metagame-shift in the last month, but most things work out better now as people dont expect them. In PvZ, I feel like the OP does. I dont understand it, I dont have a clue and lose 95% of my games when not making 7-8 gate all-ins (But I dont really want to play them :/) But I know from PvT that things can only get better by training it, so as soon as my new processor arrives I will try to mass PvZs in order to get a better understanding of it. Edit: uh, APM isn't important at all if youre above 10 I got masters with 30-50 apm. 7-8 gate all ins can take less than 30 apm, so that explains it. Good solid play involves multi pronged harass, constant scouting, and good macro. To pull all of that off simultaneously, you definitely need more than 50 apm... APM numbers overrated, it really depends on how effectively you spend that apm.. I had 20-30 for the longest time, now up to 50-60 maybe. I hardly cheese or go all-in, most of my games go to 3+ bases Maybe i dont really understand toss APM cause i play zerg and i have to constantly scroll through base cam for larvae injects and spreading creep Same apm when I off-race as zerg (around mid-high diamond level). In fact it feels as if I need less in mid-late game
mid diamond is worlds away from high masters.... I wouldn't base my judgement of APM off of that.
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EPT
