EPTJava/Web/C# have the greatest market these days, however, if you learn C++, C# and Java will become simple.
Question about programming?? - Page 2
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whaty0uwant
New Zealand346 Posts
Java/Web/C# have the greatest market these days, however, if you learn C++, C# and Java will become simple. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
But if c++ will help me learn other languages at a faster rate than I suppose I am down. I don't understand with all these allegations about programming being not that strong in the job field and etc.. From my understanding, if you are good, you can easily make 110k salary right out of college (with a BS. It could be with a MS though) | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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SgtSquiglz
United States668 Posts
On November 10 2011 16:07 Inori wrote: My point was that one should either self-study or go straight for MS/Ph.D. Hm, i guess that's debatable then. I'm honestly not sure the overall value of the BS degree in some companies' minds. Though my school's career fair and connections with some companies is well worth that degree for me IMO. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
Any degree in the US is going to put you in a better position to be hired over someone who is self-taught if they have the same amount of experience as you, experience trumps all anyway. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
Software engineering is a lot of hard work though, because (1) it is competitive, and (2) you need to learn a wide set of skills in terms of languages & platforms in addition to specializing. Most companies are looking to higher someone who has deep experience in one aspect of the software design process (UI, UX, front-end, back-end, systems, security, etc.). Computer engineers & computer scientists generally just use languages as a tool to get things done and therefore are usually more well-rounded, but again you have specialization & a lot of experience goes into it. You need to find something you are passionate about. There are plenty of boring things you can do with C++. There are also cool things, but it's just a tool for your practical objectives. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
Your masters will give you a leg up in hiring, probably ~20k more in starting salary. Also, a top-tier CS school's BS is worth a lower tier's MS, give or take a few k. The best way to cover your bets is to do some ninja hacking (open source contribution is good) and get some real experience and notoriety. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
Otherwise the languages you will need to have proficiency in depend on the position & nature of the company/project. Most young companies today acknowledge that there are a lot of languages out there, and adhere to the "right tool for the job" principle. Hot stuff these days: Python in a lot of backends, a lot of everything. Python is pretty nice. Ruby in places you wouldn't expect it. Very esoteric, but rewarding if you can get into it. Erlang/OCaml/Haskell in finance/algo trading. Weird languages that help math-minded people write weird code. Javascript anywhere a website is involved, and other places as well. Extremely important, and extremely unpopular by most. | ||
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Urth
United States1256 Posts
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
On November 10 2011 17:26 mmp wrote: While an intro C++ class might be interesting, eventually you get deep enough into this shit that the language becomes an afterthought to the task, and then you start to get hung up on practical issues like "what are you trying to achieve with your software." If you enjoy writing code for its own sake then software engineering may be good for you. Software engineering is a lot of hard work though, because (1) it is competitive, and (2) you need to learn a wide set of skills in terms of languages & platforms in addition to specializing. Most companies are looking to higher someone who has deep experience in one aspect of the software design process (UI, UX, front-end, back-end, systems, security, etc.). Computer engineers & computer scientists generally just use languages as a tool to get things done and therefore are usually more well-rounded, but again you have specialization & a lot of experience goes into it. You need to find something you are passionate about. There are plenty of boring things you can do with C++. There are also cool things, but it's just a tool for your practical objectives. sigh just more and more things I need to go learn... I have absolutely no idea what some of those are...I mean I guess i want to do security lol So i can be leet ninja hacker XD | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On November 10 2011 15:29 heroyi wrote: ok so you just went with the whole google shit out? I feel like that isnt the best way to learn considering there will be holes in your knowledge. And is c++ a popular program code to use? Btw what do you mean by the language changes? Like new codes, an improvement? C++ is quite popular. It basically is required for everything which goes beyond a "lets write a small application!". Sure there are some exceptions, but it's overall a very common language. Also if you know one language - you basically know all (as long as they're form the same family, and the big ones (c++, java, c#, python) all are). And yes "googling the shit out" is basically how you program. Or more precisely: looking through APIs, you will not write everything yourself. Programming is a neverending learning experience. You will always have holes. And if you need to fill that hole you learn it  The biggest problem when learning to program is: You normally chose a project which you want to work on (something which interests you). You encounter new problems, learn to solve them, and then after 2 month or so you say "Ok... what I did 6 weeks ago works, but now I know a way cooler/better way to solve that problem. My old code is crap - I should rewrite it". DO NOT FOLLOW THAT INSTINCT! It's the worst thing you can ever do, because you will NEVER finish said project if you use the "I now know a better way to solve it - let me fix that"-approach Only the next time (next project) when you encounter the same problem, dont copy & paste that old code but write it better I'm a CS student (university - not FH (Fachhochschule - college?), so we're more theorie-focused) - and programming isnt that important. Sure, we have to program something in some courses (the big ones) but in multiple other courses there is 0 programming required. It's more about the concepts and especially the math behind it. | ||
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sapht
Sweden141 Posts
Don't think about getting a BS or MS. Don't think about Computer Science. Doing these things means you are not programming at this moment. Spend your time writing code instead, it's more fun. You don't "learn" a programming language. It's not like "Oh, I see. Now I guess I know C++." or "Now I know Java, yay!". You learn to write programs, and the language is your tool. You can be more or less proficient with your tools. If you like metaphors, imagine construction. Humans build boats, towers, computers, houses, bunkers, cars. These are all different constructions. They require different designs and physics to work. These probably require tools that can resolve these issues. You wouldn't build a car using a jackhammer. You wouldn't color a house using spray paint. There are different things to program, and there are different tools for the job. Java and C++ are often recommended because they are general-purpose tools that can do most things acceptably well. But they're also ugly as hell. My opinion on which one you should learn? Both. If you don't already know programming, you probably don't know the kinds of things you'd like to build. So go find out. If you want a firefox plugin, you should write one. Don't know how? You should find out how. Don't just plunge into CS like so many others thinking "yeah code sounds kinda fun". Just start writing code. It isn't actually hard. What's hard is integrating code with colleagues and building stable, scalable applications. Is that what you want to do? Then go to CS. If you have no idea what you want to do, make some cool, neat, fun utility stuff. Hang out on github and share code, read code. Have fun, because code is fun. (If you don't like coding, but code anyway, you'll end up creating abominations, like Rasmus Lerdorf has done with PHP. What ever you do, don't fall into the PHP trap, it's an extremely ugly language.) I personally believe programming is going to become less of a profession and more of a requisite skill for any type of work. Then we'll have experts who do things like design new languages, kernel optimization, and the stuff that keeps CS rolling. But not knowing how to write a simple program should be like not speaking English internationally. I've worked as a programmer but I don't always feel like a programmer. I just learned to write programs, because I think the computer is the greatest technological discovery in the history of the mankind. I'm not going to give you any language recommendations, but I think you should read abot these languages, and see if they sound fun: - Clojure - Ruby - Haskell - Python - Perl - Scala - Erlang - Scheme - Javascript Don't let your noobness scare you from picking a language. Just try until something works and take pride in every single bug-free line. If one of them sounds interesting, start writing stuff in it. Oh! Also: http://www.projecteuler.net . Fun programming challenges. Even if it turns out you hate programming, or you can't work as a programmer for some other reason, you should learn it. Everybody should. | ||
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