Note: This is mostly my opinion with a little bit of rant thrown in there, if you cannot accept that, don't read this blog.
About myself: - I'm a Diamond level Zerg player - I get cannon cheesed nearly every game against Protoss, and even if I end up breaking through, they still win (either voids or gateway timing)
My Opinion on Zerg: - I feel like they're the easiest macro race, but they are extremely vulnerable to cheese. Terran can wall off and shut down nearly EVERY cheese there is (6pool, cannons(lol marines have guns)) you name it, except maybe roach rushes but still... they have bunkers come on now. - I feel like playing Zerg on the North American aka "I play this game to not improve" ladder gets someone nowhere, and that you won't improve that much unless it comes to holding off cheeses and retarded timings. - They have no solid cheese to do back at other Protoss / Terran players besides maybe a roach rush.
MY EXPERIENCES in Diamond League on the NA ladder: - First off, everyone cheeses. I get a macro game maybe 3-4 out of every 10 games. - 9/10 Protoss players may as well be Deezer, doing retarded shit every game. - ZvZ is a toss up, most people just make nonstop lings which is the most unenjoyable thing ever besides the Protoss players. - ZvT is fine, Terran players actually play smart like people should be doing.
What I am forced to do to improve: - I have a few friends who are high Master level players, so I'm forced to practice with them and get better that way.. ladder is pointless stuff that is just wasting your time, which makes the game not fun to play at all. - Sadly, no one will every look at a diamond league player in the same light as a Master's league player, which means you have no choice but to ladder and try to get promoted. - There are some days when I don't get vs'd against retarded people and it's so fun, but days like today, it can be non stop retarded stuff that as a zerg player youre being forced to hold back
So thats my opinion/rant about the moronic players on the NA ladder.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
So 1) learn to hold cheese 2) get promoted 3) play macro games
Seems like these are sequential if everyone cheeses at your level.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
So 1) learn to hold cheese 2) get promoted 3) play macro games
Seems like these are sequential if everyone cheeses at your level.
The hardest cheese for me to hold is a cannon wall / at nat from protoss
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
Actually I've found exactly the opposite to be true. I am cheesed a ton more than I ever was in diamond. And some of these are very refined and much more difficult to hold off.
A Zerg complimenting Terran play? Never thought that day would come. Though, ladder is really important because you get to learn all the wacky possibilities of the game. Just don't take the losses too seriously and try to keep getting better at laddering. Because earlygame is just as important as any other aspect of the game.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
So 1) learn to hold cheese 2) get promoted 3) play macro games
Seems like these are sequential if everyone cheeses at your level.
The hardest cheese for me to hold is a cannon wall / at nat from protoss
Pull all your drones off mineral line, right click on a mineral patch at your nat, that will have all your drones stack. Then quickly attack one pylon. Repeat, fast.
You can also open pool first into 15 hatch. It's not that far behind in terms of economy and is safe against most cheese (2 gate, cannon rush)
Protip get a partner and practice against cannon rushes. You need to be able beat it handily everytime you see it and that the learning process gets a lot easier if you can get a friend to execute it against you. Once you pass that barrier you will have a much easier time identifying and destroying cannon cheese.
Please stop revealing the universally kept secret that once you get out of bronze/silver/gold/platinum people stop cheesing and play macro games. It's the only motivation for new players to keep trying in the face of adversity.
The cannon-contain-counter seems to only work on Shakuras, from what I've seen.
The randoms you face in diamond pale in comparison to what you would encounter in Grandmasters as a streamer. Imagine someone who knows where you spawn from the very start of the game, knows what you're doing, and has a somewhat-well-thought-out gameplan that revolves around getting off a pylon wall-in, then slowly abusing you for the rest of the game while never losing that initial advantage, and never being caught off-guard by your tech options.
Trust me, you could annihilate the scrubs you're facing with just a little extra bit of heart added into your game. Keep at it, and you'll get your star soon enough.
So your game strategy at start is hoping that opponent is playing macro game with lack of aggression. You might as well go 3 hatch before pool if thats true (or 2 hatch before pool).
NO!
When you start defeating these cheeses from protoss players guess what will happen? You are like ah another easy win and you get to Masters quickly.
1. Refine and master your Early game stage. 2. Then get better with middle game stage 3. After completing 1. and 2. you will get more of these games if you haven't beat your opponent already.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
Lol I'm high masters and i get 2 base all inned at least half of my games. Last 4 GMs i've played have all-inned me or done some very aggressive timing attack.
On November 05 2011 03:36 VPCursed wrote: You need to learn how to hold everything off if you want to be able to compete at gm/high masters level. Ladder is very good practice.
This is true, but at the same time, as you get into higher leagues macro games are much more prevalent.
Lol I'm high masters and i get 2 base all inned at least half of my games. Last 4 GMs i've played have all-inned me or done some very aggressive timing attack.
I'm in the same boat. I always go for long macro games because I, actually want to get better. Then you scout some gateway timing attack, 1 base marine/scv all-in or 1 base ling/bane all-in and you're just like... wtf?
Ladder is good general practice as it exposes you to literally everything out there.
But it's not very good if you want to work on honing specific things. For example, if the next step to improving your game is learning how to hold off a 7-gate protoss timing, you might face this 1 out of every 15 games on the ladder. which is very inefficient. In this case, it's best to get a practice partner so he can 7gate you game after game after game to really hone down those specialized skills that you want to work on.
EPT
