this blog isn't very organised but it's more of some self musing
over the past few months, i've personally played and watched more sc2 games, and i've definitely been impressed by some games, like Nestea vs MVP blizzcon finals, the recent MMA vs MVP GSL finals, and a few GSL finals and MLGs before that. however, other than some points that i brought up before, such as better casters which has been resolved (thank you OGN for your commentating and the doom zooms), the game itself still has two main aspects that comes to my mind which is preventing it from becoming a more enjoyable spectator sport, some of which i hope can be resolved or looked into.
first is the graphics. i have nothing against how the units look like, but as always, it's hard to distinguish units especially when it's in a ball. units feel like they're one single entity, so it's not that easy to get excited, though with stuff like marine spread against banelings, etc, it has been a been more pleasing on the eyes. this is the game design, so it won't be possible to change this, but it still is a reason why i'm visually turned off by the game as opposed to watching brood war matches.
the second point is sound. before watching this video (from the point i timestamped), i ask you to close your eyes and pay attention to the sound.
what i hear is crispness. intensity. excitement. every movement, every shot, every stim, every attack, it all blends perfectly into a beautiful symphony. it makes the game feel more alive, unlike all sc2 games were, frankly speaking, everything sounds the same except for banelings exploding. mabe blizzard got lazy and decided to cut cost on the sound effect department, but honestly, i was hoping they'd patch this up soon after release. what happened to the tank siege mode sound from bw? i really miss that in sc2, it was the sound of epicness, the feeling of something serious getting ready to fall on you and deal some hurt. in bw, every unit had distinct sounds, from marines, zerglings, zealots (hell, zealots' attacks sound so good in bw), to dragoons, vultures, tanks etc. in SC2, thor and tank sounds the same, zerglings' attack sound feels like they're just scratching with toothpicks against a brick wall, stalkers' attacks sound so bland, and so on. and i'm not talking about just their attacks, i'm talking about their voice acting, as well as death sounds (dragoons, zealots, lurkers, marines, ghosts, medics and... ok actually everything sound so good when they die) well, let's just hope they do so soon :s
SC1 units would blob up as well if you could get more units into one group. But you cant and that's the only reason why SC1 looks more spread out even though that is just a side effect.
On October 29 2011 21:05 Skilledblob wrote: SC1 units would blob up as well if you could get more units into one group. But you cant and that's the only reason why SC1 looks more spread out even though that is just a side effect.
i don't really agree with that. in SC2, the units really tend to stick right next to each other, that's why it's slightly harder to distinguish. combine that with a more zoomed out view, units feel smaller, things look and are more crammed up
On October 29 2011 21:05 Skilledblob wrote: SC1 units would blob up as well if you could get more units into one group. But you cant and that's the only reason why SC1 looks more spread out even though that is just a side effect.
Let's suppose you have really fast hand speed and moving many control groups is almost instantaneous such that it makes no difference how many units are being moved.
The sounds are so mediocre in SC2. Ultralisks attacks are some kind of stupid scissor, and the marine machinegun sounds like a fucking peashooter, not to mention the voices, and all the zerg unit deaths that just sound like poo.
Battles also look like crap. Not just because units don't look cool, but because of the ball syndrom.
oh wow my mind is blown. I read the title and expected something entirely different.
You may have a point though. The ball effect of SC2 units have been discussed to death already since the beta. The sound never struck my mind. I've just taken it for granted. It may be a bit exaggerated to claim that the game is not viewerfriendly cause of the sound though
I think skill ceiling is mentioned way too much by people trying to explain why (they believe) SC2 is not as good a game/esport as BW.
Sound effects, the importance of positional battles (spider mines, lurkers, etc.), harrass potential, micromanagement diversity, battle epicness potential (more than a few seconds that is) are so many things that I, personally, don't find as satisfying in the sequel.
And among them sound effects are like the simplest thing ever Blizzard could adjust.
I like these posts because I love BW but it's like describing the sun to people who have lived in caves their whole lives. The better you describe it the more they are going to deny you and your anti cave dwelling lies. I mean a giant ball of fire 90 million miles away that casts brilliant warm light on everything? Come on, dude.
On October 29 2011 21:23 floor exercise wrote: I like these posts because I love BW but it's like describing the sun to people who have lived in caves their whole lives. The better you describe it the more they are going to deny you and your anti cave dwelling lies. I mean a giant ball of fire 90 million miles away that casts brilliant warm light on everything? Come on, dude.
Looks like someone's being forced to read Plato in school.
But still, look at the spectator numbers, it is what it is. SC2 is newer and shinier, has more money, more foreign casting talent to make it exciting. Somewhere a lot of people decided the tradeoffs make SC2 the more appealing game to watch. Be glad SC2 is what it is, things can be a lot worse.
Comparatively, I can grieve about Quake being edged out by newer, shittier FPS games like Halo and CoD, but apparently most people would still rather watch Halo and CoD. That's presumably where the money is. SC2 is nowhere near as bad compared to Halo or CoD for FPS games.
I think there's more that. A lot of the units seem mechanically less interesting. Scouge are so much fun! It’s really hard to split them and so satisfying when you hit Coursairs with 2 Scouge each instead of pilling into the first one. Also Muta’s are epic fun to micro in Broodwar. It’s a skill that just doesn't exist in SC2. Shuttle-Reaver, the little almost miny game of Scouge vs Science Vessels in ZvT (of course it’s incredibly important not just the little fun side show it can look like sometimes). Spider mine's the list goes on. Its almost like everything fun got removed.
Most of the new units don't add anything to the game. Banerlings are the possibly the only exception. But they don't make up for the dullness of no Muta micro, no Scouge, no Defiler swarm. Playing Zerg is just really boring now, so I stopped and went back to Broodwar.
edit: I didn't discuss sound at all. The sound of a proper live Broodwar match been played in real life is so intense. For me the excitement is probably made a lot more intense by watching from home for years and finally actually been there for real in Yongsan or rest in peace Mullae LOOX's. But it’s hard to describe how powerful the sound and atmosphere of a real Broodwar game is.
Powerful and almost without fail great metal fills the studio accompanied by the light chatter and sense of anticipation as everyone’s eagerly awaiting the game. Maybe a scream from the girls as a player is spotted setting up. Then the commentators start yelling out their greetings as the TV audience joins and the crowd filling the excitement greet the TV audience too. Beep, beep beep the magic count down begins and the crowd yells out for their favourite player. The magical Broodwar soundtrack fills the room along with the commentators (seemingly mystical since I don't speak much Korean) banter an introduction of the players locations and what's going to happen. The crowd just starting to settle down hear the first action as a probe is engaged by the lings Thump, Thump,Thump the sound of a ling through a very powerful speaker system.
Its hard to put how magical Broodwar feels in real life. I admit to been biased but SC2 matches I have been to don't compare. Less atmosphere, less intense commentary, less exciting players, less exciting game play. This is my opinion.
edit 2: Why the hell can't I embed this dam I'm getting old I can't work computers any more. Anyway here' a count down from an OSL game. I think It's Stork Vs Hiya so much passion. http://www.facebook.com/v/491311851133=player_embedded
What I agree with the most is SOUND. Overall, the sounds in SC2 are truly underwhelming. I mean:
-SC2 stim v/s BW stim: Such a simple thing, but in BW it sounds like a true junkie. -SC2 ultras v/s BW ultras: Scissor strike?... meh... -SC2 carriers v/s BW carriers: From interceptor launch to fire, BW sounds much stronger -SC2 zerglings v/s BW zerglings: I don't know if it was THAT appropriate in BW, but it sounded more characteristic, you just know this is a zergling and this is how it must sound.
I could carry on, but the point is made. Sound in BW just made every unit have a more solid identity, and a personality of its own, SC2 sounds are just too generic and bland. Music is fine though.
As for the skill ceiling thing... meh... SC2 skill ceiling isn't close to being reached. Remember, nobody though the things pros do in BW were even possible until they figured it out
The worst thing about spectating sc2 for me is the health bars on units. Oddly,I'm one of the few sc2 fans that think so.I think the health bars,production bar should all be turned off when the game is being cast. Might be just a personal preference tho.
On October 29 2011 21:11 Archvil3 wrote: oh wow my mind is blown. I read the title and expected something entirely different.
You may have a point though. The ball effect of SC2 units have been discussed to death already since the beta. The sound never struck my mind. I've just taken it for granted. It may be a bit exaggerated to claim that the game is not viewerfriendly cause of the sound though
i didn't call it being not viewerfriendly
it's just that sounds are a key aspect in making the game greater than it can, and without it, the game's full potential as an enjoyable sport will not be unlocked
On October 29 2011 21:42 TheKefka wrote: The worst thing about spectating sc2 for me is the health bars on units. Oddly,I'm one of the few sc2 fans that think so.I think the health bars,production bar should all be turned off when the game is being cast. Might be just a personal preference tho.
So much this. I HATE watching sc2 and the only thing you actually see is a bunch of healthbars going down. it's like a 200/200 zerg and a 200/200 terran army clash in an all out skirmish, you see a fuckton of healthbars but can't really see who's winning.
i find it amusing to listen to casters go "and it looks like this zerg will come out on top" and two seconds later "and the terran holds!!!!". makes you go like "wat".
On October 29 2011 21:05 Skilledblob wrote: SC1 units would blob up as well if you could get more units into one group. But you cant and that's the only reason why SC1 looks more spread out even though that is just a side effect.
Hardly. It's a matter of play, not technical limitations. All of the top players in BW would be unlikely to put all that many more units into one group anyway, even if they were able to, precisely because it causes lack of control and inevitable balling/clumping. That's just asking to be picked off by tanks and storms. That's one of the weaknesses of large control groups that is commonly stated in threads regarding SC2 micro: even the top players currently only use 2 or 3 groups, when they could be using 7 or 8 for more refined and precise control. Who cares if those groups only have 5 units each? It's a million times better than having 1 group of 40 units all balling up and getting destroyed by AOE.
On October 29 2011 21:37 mordk wrote: -SC2 stim v/s BW stim: Such a simple thing, but in BW it sounds like a true junkie.
I don't think that Blizzard wants to send the image that bio terran units are junkies doing drugs...That sends a bad image to the viewers and people might think that Blizzard is encouraging the use of drugs.
On October 29 2011 21:37 mordk wrote: -SC2 stim v/s BW stim: Such a simple thing, but in BW it sounds like a true junkie.
I don't think that Blizzard wants to send the image that bio terran units are junkies doing drugs...That sends a bad image to the viewers and people might think that Blizzard is encouraging the use of drugs.
Stim in BW sounds like it's actually dangerous, and in the sense of drugs are bad for your health yO Pretty much every sound is more pronounced in BW for some reason, and if you're already accustomed to listening to that, SC2 sounds seem kind of bland.
EPT
