• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:27
CEST 16:27
KST 23:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism0Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?111Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group B [ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7060 users

I'm writing a sci-fi novel... - Page 2

Blogs > ryanAnger
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
October 22 2011 22:58 GMT
#21
yeah.. You need to start the story off with something that grabs the reader by the seat of the pants and says

+ Show Spoiler +

LISTEN HERE MOTHERFUCKER. THE STORY YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS GOING TO SHOW YOU GLIMPSES INTO A WORLD SO FUCKING INCREDIBLE AND FUCKING AMAZING THAT YOU MAY SHIT YOURSELF IN ABSOLUTE AWE MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE IM DONE WITH YOU AND DROP YOU OFF BACK IN YOUR OWN SHITTY WORLD.



Thats pretty much the first thing you want to lay down as the foundation for your book. What you have so far for an epilogue is a bunch of un interesting ramblings that may or may not have any meaning if I continue to read the book. I dont get any growing sense of wonder or discovery from that. Doesnt make me "NEED" to read more.

As for the first chapter I can appreciate that your trying to develope character backstory and shit but you need to develop some kind of emotional tie between the reader and that character before you can expect a reader to sift through backstory and care about it. Your also writing about an astronaut thats bored as fuck. Theres nothing worse than reading about someone whos so bored hes falling asleep. That makes the reader bored. You need to give the reader a swift kick in the ass right from the get go. + Show Spoiler +
This astronaut needs to be doing a routine space walk or something and his buddy gets NAILED With SPACE DEBRI THAT RIPS A FUCKING HUGE HOLE RIGHT THRU HIS CHEST AND HOLY SHIT MAN ASTRONAUT GIB FUCKING FLYS EVERYWHERE AND SHIT FUCK WE NEED TO GET INSIDE CAUSE THERES FUCKING HUGE CLOUDS OF THIS SPACE DEBRI SHIT RAINING AT HIM IT COMING AT THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND HOLY SHIT MAN HE IS SCRAMBLING TO GET IN THE FUCKING AIR LOCK BEFORE HES TORN TO SHREDS LIKE HIS BUDDY BUT THE DOORS CLOSING SLOW AND DECOMPRESSION TAKING TOO LONG AND THEN JUST AS IT STARTS TO DECOMPRESS HIM A GIANT PEICE OF SPACE JUNK FUCKING RIPS INTO THE MOTHERFUCKING HULL DOOR OF THE DECOMPRESSION ROOM AND HOLY SHIT OUR BUDDY IS WRITHERING IN AGONY AS HIS HALF DECOMPRESSED SPACE SUIT IS EXPOSED TO THE COLD ICY GRIPS OF SPACE. THE SPACE STATION IS GETTING RIPPED TO PIECES ALL AROUND HIM AND HIS FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING AND SHIT MAN AND HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO WHAT THE FUCK IS HE GONNA DO OMG??? .


Then maybe tell us a little about who he is.

Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
October 22 2011 23:33 GMT
#22
also heres something that might help you along with the writing process.

http://www.nanowrimo.org/

Its almost time!
ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 01:12:55
October 23 2011 01:07 GMT
#23
On October 23 2011 07:58 Coagulation wrote:
yeah.. You need to start the story off with something that grabs the reader by the seat of the pants and says

+ Show Spoiler +

LISTEN HERE MOTHERFUCKER. THE STORY YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS GOING TO SHOW YOU GLIMPSES INTO A WORLD SO FUCKING INCREDIBLE AND FUCKING AMAZING THAT YOU MAY SHIT YOURSELF IN ABSOLUTE AWE MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE IM DONE WITH YOU AND DROP YOU OFF BACK IN YOUR OWN SHITTY WORLD.



Thats pretty much the first thing you want to lay down as the foundation for your book. What you have so far for an epilogue is a bunch of un interesting ramblings that may or may not have any meaning if I continue to read the book. I dont get any growing sense of wonder or discovery from that. Doesnt make me "NEED" to read more.

As for the first chapter I can appreciate that your trying to develope character backstory and shit but you need to develop some kind of emotional tie between the reader and that character before you can expect a reader to sift through backstory and care about it. Your also writing about an astronaut thats bored as fuck. Theres nothing worse than reading about someone whos so bored hes falling asleep. That makes the reader bored. You need to give the reader a swift kick in the ass right from the get go. + Show Spoiler +
This astronaut needs to be doing a routine space walk or something and his buddy gets NAILED With SPACE DEBRI THAT RIPS A FUCKING HUGE HOLE RIGHT THRU HIS CHEST AND HOLY SHIT MAN ASTRONAUT GIB FUCKING FLYS EVERYWHERE AND SHIT FUCK WE NEED TO GET INSIDE CAUSE THERES FUCKING HUGE CLOUDS OF THIS SPACE DEBRI SHIT RAINING AT HIM IT COMING AT THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND HOLY SHIT MAN HE IS SCRAMBLING TO GET IN THE FUCKING AIR LOCK BEFORE HES TORN TO SHREDS LIKE HIS BUDDY BUT THE DOORS CLOSING SLOW AND DECOMPRESSION TAKING TOO LONG AND THEN JUST AS IT STARTS TO DECOMPRESS HIM A GIANT PEICE OF SPACE JUNK FUCKING RIPS INTO THE MOTHERFUCKING HULL DOOR OF THE DECOMPRESSION ROOM AND HOLY SHIT OUR BUDDY IS WRITHERING IN AGONY AS HIS HALF DECOMPRESSED SPACE SUIT IS EXPOSED TO THE COLD ICY GRIPS OF SPACE. THE SPACE STATION IS GETTING RIPPED TO PIECES ALL AROUND HIM AND HIS FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING AND SHIT MAN AND HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO WHAT THE FUCK IS HE GONNA DO OMG??? .


Then maybe tell us a little about who he is.



Yeah, I guess I completely disagree with you on everything you just said. Because Orson Scott Card and Isaac Asimov do neither of these things, and they are perhaps 2 of the most famous sci-fi authors there are. I'm not going for some action trash, no meaning, POS book. If the reader can't make it through 8 pages (which is about how long it is right now) without some explicitly explained giant ass explosion, I don't really want them to read my book, because they won't appreciate it anyway.

I just completely discard the assumption that you have to get the readers attention, IMMEDIATELY. Because I kind of do, I'm just subtle about it.
Also, thanks for that site, I didn't know it even existed.
On my way...
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 01:30:17
October 23 2011 01:15 GMT
#24
I was just being overly dramatic to convey the spirit of catching attention.

It would probably be alot more practical and readable if you found some kind of happy medium tho.

the majority of people will have a hard time reading a book that doesnt have a "big explosion" every couple pages or so to keep them interested. While your efforts to write books for the more intelligently inclined reader base is admirable you might have a hard time getting recognition and props you deserve taking that path.

If you plan on making a living from writing (If your just writing for self satisfaction then disregard everything I have said) then I think the best course of action would be to write your first couple of books that are easily accisable to the every day reader so that you can start a reputation(get known) and get a reader following etc. Then after that you will have much more room for experimental projects or projects that cater to a smaller more specific crowd.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
October 23 2011 05:05 GMT
#25
On October 23 2011 10:07 ryanAnger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 07:58 Coagulation wrote:
yeah.. You need to start the story off with something that grabs the reader by the seat of the pants and says

+ Show Spoiler +

LISTEN HERE MOTHERFUCKER. THE STORY YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS GOING TO SHOW YOU GLIMPSES INTO A WORLD SO FUCKING INCREDIBLE AND FUCKING AMAZING THAT YOU MAY SHIT YOURSELF IN ABSOLUTE AWE MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE IM DONE WITH YOU AND DROP YOU OFF BACK IN YOUR OWN SHITTY WORLD.



Thats pretty much the first thing you want to lay down as the foundation for your book. What you have so far for an epilogue is a bunch of un interesting ramblings that may or may not have any meaning if I continue to read the book. I dont get any growing sense of wonder or discovery from that. Doesnt make me "NEED" to read more.

As for the first chapter I can appreciate that your trying to develope character backstory and shit but you need to develop some kind of emotional tie between the reader and that character before you can expect a reader to sift through backstory and care about it. Your also writing about an astronaut thats bored as fuck. Theres nothing worse than reading about someone whos so bored hes falling asleep. That makes the reader bored. You need to give the reader a swift kick in the ass right from the get go. + Show Spoiler +
This astronaut needs to be doing a routine space walk or something and his buddy gets NAILED With SPACE DEBRI THAT RIPS A FUCKING HUGE HOLE RIGHT THRU HIS CHEST AND HOLY SHIT MAN ASTRONAUT GIB FUCKING FLYS EVERYWHERE AND SHIT FUCK WE NEED TO GET INSIDE CAUSE THERES FUCKING HUGE CLOUDS OF THIS SPACE DEBRI SHIT RAINING AT HIM IT COMING AT THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND HOLY SHIT MAN HE IS SCRAMBLING TO GET IN THE FUCKING AIR LOCK BEFORE HES TORN TO SHREDS LIKE HIS BUDDY BUT THE DOORS CLOSING SLOW AND DECOMPRESSION TAKING TOO LONG AND THEN JUST AS IT STARTS TO DECOMPRESS HIM A GIANT PEICE OF SPACE JUNK FUCKING RIPS INTO THE MOTHERFUCKING HULL DOOR OF THE DECOMPRESSION ROOM AND HOLY SHIT OUR BUDDY IS WRITHERING IN AGONY AS HIS HALF DECOMPRESSED SPACE SUIT IS EXPOSED TO THE COLD ICY GRIPS OF SPACE. THE SPACE STATION IS GETTING RIPPED TO PIECES ALL AROUND HIM AND HIS FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING AND SHIT MAN AND HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO WHAT THE FUCK IS HE GONNA DO OMG??? .


Then maybe tell us a little about who he is.



Yeah, I guess I completely disagree with you on everything you just said. Because Orson Scott Card and Isaac Asimov do neither of these things, and they are perhaps 2 of the most famous sci-fi authors there are. I'm not going for some action trash, no meaning, POS book. If the reader can't make it through 8 pages (which is about how long it is right now) without some explicitly explained giant ass explosion, I don't really want them to read my book, because they won't appreciate it anyway.

I just completely discard the assumption that you have to get the readers attention, IMMEDIATELY. Because I kind of do, I'm just subtle about it.
Also, thanks for that site, I didn't know it even existed.

The 8 pages you wrote are boring. Get over it.

You're not a good writer. Good writers don't have to explain their work, people already like it and like thinking about it. Just because you spent a couple of hours writing something doesn't mean shit.

On top of all that, you're completely misunderstanding all of the advice in this thread.

Why ask for feedback if you're not going to take any of it?
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 05:22:16
October 23 2011 05:21 GMT
#26
On October 23 2011 14:05 A3iL3r0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 10:07 ryanAnger wrote:
On October 23 2011 07:58 Coagulation wrote:
yeah.. You need to start the story off with something that grabs the reader by the seat of the pants and says

+ Show Spoiler +

LISTEN HERE MOTHERFUCKER. THE STORY YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS GOING TO SHOW YOU GLIMPSES INTO A WORLD SO FUCKING INCREDIBLE AND FUCKING AMAZING THAT YOU MAY SHIT YOURSELF IN ABSOLUTE AWE MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE IM DONE WITH YOU AND DROP YOU OFF BACK IN YOUR OWN SHITTY WORLD.



Thats pretty much the first thing you want to lay down as the foundation for your book. What you have so far for an epilogue is a bunch of un interesting ramblings that may or may not have any meaning if I continue to read the book. I dont get any growing sense of wonder or discovery from that. Doesnt make me "NEED" to read more.

As for the first chapter I can appreciate that your trying to develope character backstory and shit but you need to develop some kind of emotional tie between the reader and that character before you can expect a reader to sift through backstory and care about it. Your also writing about an astronaut thats bored as fuck. Theres nothing worse than reading about someone whos so bored hes falling asleep. That makes the reader bored. You need to give the reader a swift kick in the ass right from the get go. + Show Spoiler +
This astronaut needs to be doing a routine space walk or something and his buddy gets NAILED With SPACE DEBRI THAT RIPS A FUCKING HUGE HOLE RIGHT THRU HIS CHEST AND HOLY SHIT MAN ASTRONAUT GIB FUCKING FLYS EVERYWHERE AND SHIT FUCK WE NEED TO GET INSIDE CAUSE THERES FUCKING HUGE CLOUDS OF THIS SPACE DEBRI SHIT RAINING AT HIM IT COMING AT THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND HOLY SHIT MAN HE IS SCRAMBLING TO GET IN THE FUCKING AIR LOCK BEFORE HES TORN TO SHREDS LIKE HIS BUDDY BUT THE DOORS CLOSING SLOW AND DECOMPRESSION TAKING TOO LONG AND THEN JUST AS IT STARTS TO DECOMPRESS HIM A GIANT PEICE OF SPACE JUNK FUCKING RIPS INTO THE MOTHERFUCKING HULL DOOR OF THE DECOMPRESSION ROOM AND HOLY SHIT OUR BUDDY IS WRITHERING IN AGONY AS HIS HALF DECOMPRESSED SPACE SUIT IS EXPOSED TO THE COLD ICY GRIPS OF SPACE. THE SPACE STATION IS GETTING RIPPED TO PIECES ALL AROUND HIM AND HIS FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING AND SHIT MAN AND HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO WHAT THE FUCK IS HE GONNA DO OMG??? .


Then maybe tell us a little about who he is.



Yeah, I guess I completely disagree with you on everything you just said. Because Orson Scott Card and Isaac Asimov do neither of these things, and they are perhaps 2 of the most famous sci-fi authors there are. I'm not going for some action trash, no meaning, POS book. If the reader can't make it through 8 pages (which is about how long it is right now) without some explicitly explained giant ass explosion, I don't really want them to read my book, because they won't appreciate it anyway.

I just completely discard the assumption that you have to get the readers attention, IMMEDIATELY. Because I kind of do, I'm just subtle about it.
Also, thanks for that site, I didn't know it even existed.

The 8 pages you wrote are boring. Get over it.

You're not a good writer. Good writers don't have to explain their work, people already like it and like thinking about it. Just because you spent a couple of hours writing something doesn't mean shit.

On top of all that, you're completely misunderstanding all of the advice in this thread.

Why ask for feedback if you're not going to take any of it?


Lol, and you're the expert, right? No, you see, I agree with Coagulation, and I'm not trying to make the best sellers list. Stupid people want hooks, and explosions, and action, and can't be bothered to think or digest anything on their own, ever.

There are others, however, who want to read something with substance. That's what I'm trying to provide, and it might not be obvious immediately.

This thread was pointless.
On my way...
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
October 23 2011 05:46 GMT
#27
On October 23 2011 08:33 Coagulation wrote:
also heres something that might help you along with the writing process.

http://www.nanowrimo.org/

Its almost time!

Hopefully I will be participating in this as well. Sounds like good fun
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 06:27:32
October 23 2011 06:15 GMT
#28
On October 23 2011 04:42 ryanAnger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 00:29 Geovu wrote:
I just read it.

It's definitely way too vague to mean anything. Sure, it's a prologue (Don't ppl usually skip over those? lol) and also a journal entry, but it doesn't really say anything solid besides the fact that some messenger got killed and that it was a recording in a super computer. It says absolutely nothing about who wrote it, when it was wrote or what time period this takes place in. It doesn't even say if the journal writer is human, humanoid, or anything like that either (PS if they are aliens plz don't make them blue that's a terrible idea). If you clarified what kind of betrayal took place (Is it an uprising/rebellion? Murder? A theft that got out of hand?) then I think it would help a lot into make your reader want to continue. There's just no incentive to read that because there's nothing at stake that the reader is aware of. For example, if you made it clear that the journal writer's friend got murdered and the perpetrator took something of great value from him (Money, an heirloom, deathstar plans, etc) then that would be something I'd look forward to reading. At the moment there's just not enough solid 'facts'.

In fact, if you took out the footnote, I can easily imagine the writer of the journal entry being a Renaissance noble in a top hat + monocle writing this in his private bedchambers of his castle by candlelight, mildly annoyed at the way his relations with other counties are going (It's actually way cooler if you imagine it like that).

Maybe I'm missing something as I am quite awful at reading novels, but that is just my opinion.


I think you're missing the point. What's important about the prologue here are the philosophical ideas explored. There's a little bit of depth, that people are failing to get into. I guess I should have expected it. People today are interested in Michael Bay, not Stanley Kubrick.


I don't disagree with you completely. However I think there really is a balance between trying add thought to your novel and making sure your reader has a firm grasp of what is physically happening.

Also, a quote on the definition to prologue from wikipedia:

A prologue (Greek πρόλογος prologos, from the word pro (before) and lógos, word) is an opening to a story that establishes the setting and gives background details, often some earlier story that ties into the main one, and other miscellaneous information.


So it's not ALL about trying to put anything deep in it. I know there are obviously no carved in stone rules about writing, but your particular prologue fails to establish any setting, and the background details are quite vague as I have mentioned. Also, the beginning of the book is not the place to put anything really deep, as that is not what the reader wants to know when he begins to read. He wants to know the settings, characters, events, their personalities and THEN you can become more free with what you write.

People might 'fail to get into' your depth precisely because you have not yet established a solid foundation to the setting. Most books I have perused either start off with some kind of cool action or horrific event that captures the readers attention immediately, or they deeply describe what the setting physically looks like and information about the characters. Obviously I'm no expert on writing or even reading but I still know what I need to learn within the first few pages of the book. I'm just trying to help.

EDIT:
On October 23 2011 14:21 ryanAnger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 14:05 A3iL3r0n wrote:
On October 23 2011 10:07 ryanAnger wrote:
On October 23 2011 07:58 Coagulation wrote:
yeah.. You need to start the story off with something that grabs the reader by the seat of the pants and says

+ Show Spoiler +

LISTEN HERE MOTHERFUCKER. THE STORY YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS GOING TO SHOW YOU GLIMPSES INTO A WORLD SO FUCKING INCREDIBLE AND FUCKING AMAZING THAT YOU MAY SHIT YOURSELF IN ABSOLUTE AWE MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE IM DONE WITH YOU AND DROP YOU OFF BACK IN YOUR OWN SHITTY WORLD.



Thats pretty much the first thing you want to lay down as the foundation for your book. What you have so far for an epilogue is a bunch of un interesting ramblings that may or may not have any meaning if I continue to read the book. I dont get any growing sense of wonder or discovery from that. Doesnt make me "NEED" to read more.

As for the first chapter I can appreciate that your trying to develope character backstory and shit but you need to develop some kind of emotional tie between the reader and that character before you can expect a reader to sift through backstory and care about it. Your also writing about an astronaut thats bored as fuck. Theres nothing worse than reading about someone whos so bored hes falling asleep. That makes the reader bored. You need to give the reader a swift kick in the ass right from the get go. + Show Spoiler +
This astronaut needs to be doing a routine space walk or something and his buddy gets NAILED With SPACE DEBRI THAT RIPS A FUCKING HUGE HOLE RIGHT THRU HIS CHEST AND HOLY SHIT MAN ASTRONAUT GIB FUCKING FLYS EVERYWHERE AND SHIT FUCK WE NEED TO GET INSIDE CAUSE THERES FUCKING HUGE CLOUDS OF THIS SPACE DEBRI SHIT RAINING AT HIM IT COMING AT THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND HOLY SHIT MAN HE IS SCRAMBLING TO GET IN THE FUCKING AIR LOCK BEFORE HES TORN TO SHREDS LIKE HIS BUDDY BUT THE DOORS CLOSING SLOW AND DECOMPRESSION TAKING TOO LONG AND THEN JUST AS IT STARTS TO DECOMPRESS HIM A GIANT PEICE OF SPACE JUNK FUCKING RIPS INTO THE MOTHERFUCKING HULL DOOR OF THE DECOMPRESSION ROOM AND HOLY SHIT OUR BUDDY IS WRITHERING IN AGONY AS HIS HALF DECOMPRESSED SPACE SUIT IS EXPOSED TO THE COLD ICY GRIPS OF SPACE. THE SPACE STATION IS GETTING RIPPED TO PIECES ALL AROUND HIM AND HIS FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING AND SHIT MAN AND HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO WHAT THE FUCK IS HE GONNA DO OMG??? .


Then maybe tell us a little about who he is.



Yeah, I guess I completely disagree with you on everything you just said. Because Orson Scott Card and Isaac Asimov do neither of these things, and they are perhaps 2 of the most famous sci-fi authors there are. I'm not going for some action trash, no meaning, POS book. If the reader can't make it through 8 pages (which is about how long it is right now) without some explicitly explained giant ass explosion, I don't really want them to read my book, because they won't appreciate it anyway.

I just completely discard the assumption that you have to get the readers attention, IMMEDIATELY. Because I kind of do, I'm just subtle about it.
Also, thanks for that site, I didn't know it even existed.

The 8 pages you wrote are boring. Get over it.

You're not a good writer. Good writers don't have to explain their work, people already like it and like thinking about it. Just because you spent a couple of hours writing something doesn't mean shit.

On top of all that, you're completely misunderstanding all of the advice in this thread.

Why ask for feedback if you're not going to take any of it?


Lol, and you're the expert, right? No, you see, I agree with Coagulation, and I'm not trying to make the best sellers list. Stupid people want hooks, and explosions, and action, and can't be bothered to think or digest anything on their own, ever.

There are others, however, who want to read something with substance. That's what I'm trying to provide, and it might not be obvious immediately.

This thread was pointless.

Please don't think the thread is pointless. People such as me and everyone else are giving you honest feedback and trying to help you.

Also, you seem to think any action and events can't have 'substance' as you call it. This is actually completely untrue. I'm sure you've heard of the phrase 'Actions speak louder than words' and can relate to this in a book you read or a movie you watched. In my experience someone silently mourning the loss of someone dying in front of them carriers far more meaning than a monologue or journal entry of that character describing his feelings. Silence, space, action, and of course exposition are all tools that an experienced writers uses to make sure the reader gets the emotions and feelings he wants to get across.

It is more about emotions and feelings than deep thought. Only the most masterful writers can convey deep thoughts without it coming off as divergent and somewhat pointless, and they still often do this in what they don't write, rather than page after page of what you seem to consider 'substance'. If I wanted what you seem to consider deep thought I would study a physics textbook. Physics gets pretty damn deep, but still only if you read in between the lines.
ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
October 23 2011 17:32 GMT
#29
I made some changes, moving the so called prologue to after peters chapter, in hopes that it might draw the reader in more because the earth gets obliterated. But it doesn't get obliterated in gory detail (I was going to save that for the next chapter) so I don't know if that's even going to do anything to help. And the whole journal entry is meant to do a couple things: provide an air of mystery, insight into the mind of what will be a major character, and explain emotional differences between the humans and aliens. Does it fail at all of these?
On my way...
JMC4
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States261 Posts
October 23 2011 18:01 GMT
#30
It's pretty good it sets a good beginning for the rest of your novel and yes I would read more. Well written
Diamond Protoss ~
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
October 23 2011 18:24 GMT
#31
On October 24 2011 02:32 ryanAnger wrote:
I made some changes, moving the so called prologue to after peters chapter, in hopes that it might draw the reader in more because the earth gets obliterated.


Hell yeah man. Now your cooking with fire.

ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 16:50:30
October 27 2011 16:50 GMT
#32
After getting some more feedback from some more people, I've started working on a separate version. I was told by a bunch of people that it was too "textbook" and there wasn't enough actually happening. If you guys could kindly compare the two and let me know which you think is better, it would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the old version:
+ Show Spoiler +
It was dark in the room in which Peter Valentine sat, only lit by a few fluorescent bulbs in the back of the room known as the Control Room, located deep within the multi-billion dollar facility of the International Association for Space Exploration. One of the bulbs flickered, just slow enough to be noticeable, yet fast enough to give you a headache if you stayed too long. A low insect-like buzz could be heard. It was rather annoying, Peter thought, but he was in no position to do anything about it. The ceilings in this portion of the underground bunker were nearly 30 feet high, and even if he had had a ladder, he didn’t know where to find replacement bulbs. It had been that way for nearly 3 months, but either Peter was the only one who found it annoying, or everyone was just too lazy to do anything about it.

Laziness and complacency were rampant here. The last time the IASE actually sent something of value into space was nearly six years ago, and most of the existing projects at that time were either completely abandoned or reduced to such minimal manning that they might as well have been. It was all Peter could do to avoid falling asleep in the eight hour graveyard shift he was currently working. His co-worker, Andrew, was soundly asleep in the hard, straight-backed chair at the monitor just feet away. He had a funny way of snoring, like a quiet whistle occasionally punctuated by the snort of a pig.

Laziness at the IASE was just the tip of the iceberg, though. The entire world had become half-sleeping, day-walking zombies. The creation of the World Union back in 2034 was supposed to be some miracle that made everyone happy. It didn’t exactly work that way, though. Sure, there hadn’t been a war since the outright destruction of the Middle East and parts of North Africa. Sure, everyone was technically happy; poverty, hunger, and crime were at record lows worldwide, but there was no ambition. For the first time in the history of humanity, everyone was united. The only dissident groups - or to the use the popular propaganda term from the beginning of the century, “terrorists” - were small, with little to no organization or real leadership. But ambition was a thing of the past.

It was almost as if no one could ever strive to better at anything than anyone else, because everyone was supposed to be treated equally. Competition was gone, because the drive to be “better” at anything was gone at a global level. Technological growth stagnated, because really? What was the point? Life was good, there was no need to make it any better. At least, that seemed to be the general mindset.

Peter was extremely frustrated by all of this, and he occasionally found himself silently hoping that war would erupt somewhere, anywhere, so as to stimulate growth in the technology of his field of work. Of course, he always thought shamefully of himself soon after these thoughts would occur to him, but it couldn’t be helped. He felt useless. He was bored, and there was really nothing he, personally, could do to make the world any more exciting.

When he was younger, when he first found himself in what was, at the time, his dream job, everything was seemingly perfect. The IASE had just been created, and the desire to venture into space was huge among the public. At the time, everyone thought “Now that war is a thing of the past, we can focus our resources on space adventurism.” And that’s what Peter wanted, dreamed for. Space Adventurism. An opportunity to explore the outer regions of the solar system, and perhaps beyond. The first few years, this desire remained, and everything seemed to be going well. Advancements in space propulsion technology were made quickly, and only a week after the first birthday of the IASE, man had walked on Mars. Another six months, and the first commercial flight to Mars launched, landed, and returned to Earth, without issue.

Peter had longed for that trip. Mars. Our sister planet. That would be his first proverbial step in the journey that was space exploration. He longed to walk to the rim of Olympus Mons and marvel at the vastness of it all. Unfortunately, due to his rigorous work schedule at the time, overseeing the beginnings of commercial Martian flight, he was unable to visit Mars in any of the first and only months that the flights occurred. Unfortunately, people weren’t too impressed with the surface of Mars. They didn’t appreciate it the way Peter did. The market for commercial space-flight simply wasn’t there. People lost interest, the stocks fell, and the market collapsed.

Now, only 15 years after the creation of the IASE in 2036, Peter was just a custodian of forgotten dreams and broken promises. And again, there was nothing short of a miracle that could change it.


Here's the new one:
+ Show Spoiler +
It was dark in the Control Room. The few fluorescent bulbs that lit the room were flickering rapidly, and they gave Peter Valentine a terrible headache. He would have been fine if he actually had something to take his mind off of the pain, but there was no work to be done on the graveyard shift at IASE Space Command. Peter was on his seventh cup of coffee in only four hours, and he struggled desperately to stay awake. He rubbed his eyes to ease the stinging pain that meant they were bloodshot. It didn’t help. His co-worker Andrew was soundly asleep feet away, snoring like a pig.

Peter got up and walked around the room aimlessly to stretch his legs. There wasn’t anything better to do. I could probably just leave and no one would know the difference, he thought, but decided against it. Peter was the kind of person who always played by the rules, even if he thought the rules were stupid. In this case, why did they need two people to work at night when there wasn’t enough work for even one person? The solar system was in no imminent danger, and the last time the International Association for Space Exploration had sent anything of value into space was nearly six years ago.

Peter picked up a piece of paper that had fallen on the ground. It was an old memo talking about the decommissioning of one of the satellites around Venus. Peter crumpled it up and threw it at Andrew. The paper ball missed Andrew by only a few inches, and Peter was momentarily disappointed. He resented Andrew, but never made it obvious. Andrew was the perfect example of what was wrong in the world. He was lazy and made no effort to better himself in anything he did. He came to work, sure, but most of the time he showed up late and spent his time there asleep. Andrew isn’t the only one, either, Peter thought. In fact, most of the employees at the IASE were the same as Andrew. The whole world was, for that matter.

It seemed that since the creation of the World Union in 2034, people had turned into half-sleeping, day-walking zombies. Complacency was rampant. The competitive drive that had once existed was gone. It was almost as if no one could ever strive to be better anything than others, because people were supposed to be “equal”. Yeah, the world was peaceful and poverty, hunger, and crime were at record lows, but no one had any ambition. Technological growth had stagnated, because really? What was the point? Life was good, so there was no need to make it any better. At least, that seemed to be the general mindset.

Peter was extremely frustrated by all of this and seeing Andrew sleeping so casually at work didn’t help. He occasionally found himself silently hoping that war would erupt somewhere, anywhere, because things had gotten so terribly boring. Of course, he always thought shamefully of himself soon after these thoughts occurred to him, but he couldn’t help it. He felt useless, and there was really nothing he could personally do to make the world any more exciting.

When Peter first got his job at the IASE, everything was seemingly perfect. It was his dream job, and at the time, business was booming. The IASE had just been created and the desire to explore space was huge among the public. At the time, everyone thought “Now that war is a thing of the past, we can focus our resources on space adventurism.” And that’s what Peter had wanted, had dreamed for, his entire life. “Space Adventurism.” Peter was always hoping for an opportunity to explore the outer regions of the solar system, and perhaps beyond. It looked like he would get his chance when space propulsion technology made significant leaps shortly after the IASE came into existence. Everything went well, and only a week after the IASE’s first birthday, man had walked on Mars. Another six months and the first commercial flight to Mars launched, landed, and returned to Earth, without issue.

Peter longed for that trip. It would be his first proverbial step in the journey that was space exploration. He wanted to climb to the top of Olympus Mons and marvel at the vastness of it all. Unfortunately, due to his rigorous work schedule overseeing the beginnings of commercial Martian flight, he was unable to go in any of the first and only months that the flights occurred. Unfortunately, people weren’t too impressed with the surface of Mars. They didn’t appreciate it the way Peter surely would have. The market for space exploration simply wasn’t there, the stocks fell, and the market collapsed. Peter was furious that he missed what would probably be his only chance. It still stung when he thought about it fourteen years later. Now, Peter was just a custodian of forgotten dreams and broken promises, and there was nothing short of a miracle that could change it.

On my way...
pathy
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Taiwan619 Posts
October 27 2011 17:24 GMT
#33
I'm by no means an extensive reader, but just from reading the first paragraph, I'm already suffering because your writing does not immerse me in the world of your story.And it's not the content's fault - it's because your approach and prose are uninteresting. Sorry ;|

I'll post more critique when I find the time ><
Graphicscolosi suck
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
October 27 2011 17:35 GMT
#34
Writing a novel is an intensely personal and individual act. Don't ask strangers on TL what they think, ask your loved ones.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
October 28 2011 01:52 GMT
#35
That's great that you're re-drafting this stuff. The new version is definitely an improvement over the previous.

Though I did notice the same two problems with all the drafts. The main problem is that you're dumping all of this information us. Instead, you need to reveal this information to us through scene. Scene is one or more characters taking some sort of action in a setting. Action is stuff that happens, not necessarily explosions or gunfights. It should be as specific as possible. Summary of action should be used sparingly, because it's not as engaging as specific action.

Here are all the action sentences I could find in the new version:

Peter got up and walked around the room aimlessly to stretch his legs.
He rubbed his eyes to ease the stinging pain that meant they were bloodshot.
Peter picked up a piece of paper that had fallen on the ground.
Peter crumpled it up and threw it at Andrew.

Another immediate problem with the openings is that I don't know what the conflict is. This should be introduced on the first page (the earlier the better) to hook the audience and make us keep reading. Even it's a small problem that isn't the main conflict of the story, it can still work because conflict keeps us interested. In the current version, I learn a lot about the world Peter is in, but I don't care yet because nothing is at stake. In short, we need to know two important things right away: What is Peter's problem and how is Peter going to try to solve this problem?
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
October 28 2011 03:20 GMT
#36
On October 28 2011 10:52 A3iL3r0n wrote:
That's great that you're re-drafting this stuff. The new version is definitely an improvement over the previous.

Though I did notice the same two problems with all the drafts. The main problem is that you're dumping all of this information us. Instead, you need to reveal this information to us through scene. Scene is one or more characters taking some sort of action in a setting. Action is stuff that happens, not necessarily explosions or gunfights. It should be as specific as possible. Summary of action should be used sparingly, because it's not as engaging as specific action.

Here are all the action sentences I could find in the new version:

Peter got up and walked around the room aimlessly to stretch his legs.
He rubbed his eyes to ease the stinging pain that meant they were bloodshot.
Peter picked up a piece of paper that had fallen on the ground.
Peter crumpled it up and threw it at Andrew.

Another immediate problem with the openings is that I don't know what the conflict is. This should be introduced on the first page (the earlier the better) to hook the audience and make us keep reading. Even it's a small problem that isn't the main conflict of the story, it can still work because conflict keeps us interested. In the current version, I learn a lot about the world Peter is in, but I don't care yet because nothing is at stake. In short, we need to know two important things right away: What is Peter's problem and how is Peter going to try to solve this problem?


Yeah, I don't really have a way to fix that issue because the time and setting of the first chapter are very specific and important to the story. There isn't much action to be had at 2 AM at the IASE in the first couple pages, and its necessary to the story.
On my way...
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
October 28 2011 04:17 GMT
#37
On October 28 2011 12:20 ryanAnger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 10:52 A3iL3r0n wrote:
That's great that you're re-drafting this stuff. The new version is definitely an improvement over the previous.

Though I did notice the same two problems with all the drafts. The main problem is that you're dumping all of this information us. Instead, you need to reveal this information to us through scene. Scene is one or more characters taking some sort of action in a setting. Action is stuff that happens, not necessarily explosions or gunfights. It should be as specific as possible. Summary of action should be used sparingly, because it's not as engaging as specific action.

Here are all the action sentences I could find in the new version:

Peter got up and walked around the room aimlessly to stretch his legs.
He rubbed his eyes to ease the stinging pain that meant they were bloodshot.
Peter picked up a piece of paper that had fallen on the ground.
Peter crumpled it up and threw it at Andrew.

Another immediate problem with the openings is that I don't know what the conflict is. This should be introduced on the first page (the earlier the better) to hook the audience and make us keep reading. Even it's a small problem that isn't the main conflict of the story, it can still work because conflict keeps us interested. In the current version, I learn a lot about the world Peter is in, but I don't care yet because nothing is at stake. In short, we need to know two important things right away: What is Peter's problem and how is Peter going to try to solve this problem?


Yeah, I don't really have a way to fix that issue because the time and setting of the first chapter are very specific and important to the story. There isn't much action to be had at 2 AM at the IASE in the first couple pages, and its necessary to the story.

That's fine, keep it the same setting but you need to introduce conflict into the beginning somehow. The way it starts is really effing boring man. Go back and read your favorite shit. There's something happening at the beginning, even if it is small. I guarantee it.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
11:00
2026 GSTL: Main Stage Day 5
IntoTheiNu 928
CranKy Ducklings SOOP185
Rex28
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SHIN 120
Maru 70
Classic 37
herO (SOOP) 31
Trap 30
Rex 28
Zoun (SOOP) 20
Solar (SOOP) 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 58789
Calm 5574
Bisu 1735
ggaemo 1496
EffOrt 1378
Light 410
Rush 307
Mini 301
actioN 266
Stork 234
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 195
Snow 165
Larva 157
Hyun 136
hero 136
Mind 93
Sea.KH 77
Barracks 65
Sharp 64
ToSsGirL 52
soO 33
Aegong 26
Terrorterran 25
HiyA 17
SilentControl 16
Rock 14
Shine 13
Yoon 5
Dota 2
qojqva3536
Dendi1643
420jenkins405
syndereN383
Counter-Strike
markeloff278
edward68
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox673
Other Games
hiko902
B2W.Neo841
Lowko432
crisheroes291
XaKoH 287
Hui .274
Liquid`VortiX270
Liquid`RaSZi178
ArmadaUGS54
QueenE41
Trikslyr14
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV21
Algost 5
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 74
• Gemini_19 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2237
• Jankos2012
• TFBlade569
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 34m
Kung Fu Cup
20h 34m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
KCM Race Survival
1d 19h
Escore
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.