EPT
(GSL spoiler) The Game That Made Me Stop Playing - Page 2
| Blogs > Umpteen |
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
multipronged attacks baneling mines baneling overlord drops muta harass individual roach burrow micro(i dont think anyone's good enough to do this yet) constant overseer contaminates to delay thors so your mutas destroy entire bases nydus play | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On September 13 2011 00:53 Umpteen wrote: I think that's probably a very pleasant belief to entertain. How unfortunate that nobody who believes the same has ever switched to Zerg to show us how it's done. I was P. Switched to Zerg. Hated it. Switched back to P. Switched to T. Insta-love. Still have TvT but oh well. Was quite high masters with P, at least mid masters with Z and T. | ||
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
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HuKPOWA
United States1604 Posts
 Not like Toss has many tech trees right??? haha go collosus or bust, lol...and the fact ur quitting b/c of a GSL "FINALS" match, and not b/c of how fun the game is, gl | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
Its pretty good. Its got what you want :D | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:09 xccam wrote: just play BW. Its pretty good. Its got what you want :D really because other than defilers i dont think zerg is all that interesting and i think you still have probably the most narrow tech options | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: really because other than defilers i dont think zerg is all that interesting and i think you still have probably the most narrow tech options Well he wrote 'I want my tech tree to be stuffed with cool things that I actively want to cut drones to get hold of. I want a sensibly positioned, sensibly priced and versatile core unit (like a hatch-tech, 1 food, non-light non-armoured plain Bio Hydra with appropriate health and DPS) that I can lean upon while I tech to something funky. I want a unit that can attack while burrowed, and to be able to rush to this tech to catch out a greedy or inattentive opponent. ' Almost all of that is BW zerg. Also at hive tech you have ling or hydra, at lair you have muta or lurker and at hive you have ultra or guardian/devourer or defiler. As terran you have MMF or factory units or air, far less interesting tech unless you go ghosts. And as Protoss you have templar, reaver or air, with the same gateway units being used for all matchups. All in all I'd say zerg has the most interesting tech, but its probably all opinion really isnt it? | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Dammit. | ||
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SaLaYa
United States363 Posts
I lol'd pretty hard at the made up topic names. | ||
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
It makes for dull gameplay from my perspective, unfortunately. I played BW for something like 8 years... hopefully the expansions result in more dynamic gameplay but in the meantime it looks like I'll be spending my time doing other things. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
I don't play SC2 that seriously, but I cannot fathom how people can willingly open Roaches in most matchups, I find them, along with Hydras, to be pretty stale especially since you're usually forced to sit and wait with them for most of the early game since they're so freakin slow. I think Zerg lacks 2 things: A technical or strong unit you look forward to making -> Defiler, Lurker, Ultralisk/Crackling, Infestors don't cut it for me, Fungal is about as entertaining as paint dry compared to Dark Swarm and PLAYGU Certain people like massing bread and butter units that can counter most things like Marines and Stalkers. With Roaches and Lings you're usually forced into making something else especially since they aren't capable of hitting air, sometimes I just feel like massing 1 unit and face rolling -> BW Hydra Honestly all I get a kick out of is stacking Mutas and pretending I'm Jaedong | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On September 13 2011 01:45 HuKPOWA wrote: It's not like Zerg has won anything huge right lately??? Not like Toss has many tech trees right??? haha go collosus or bust, lol...and the fact ur quitting b/c of a GSL "FINALS" match, and not b/c of how fun the game is, gl 1. It's nothing to do with balance, not win/loss balance anyway. It's to do with feeling like any attempt to take the initiative or do anything interesting goes against the grain of the race I'm playing. I feel like I'm supposed to cut gas, tech the absolute minimum needed to stay alive, and basically wait to be punched in the face by my opponent in the hope that he'll break his wrist. 2. The Gsl final allowed me to see the wood past all the trees. I had been so focused on improving that I hadn't noticed I wasn't going to enjoy being better. Even if I played my way into Code S, nothing would change. I'd still just be stopping fists with my face. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
The complete lack of a true core 1 supply unit just makes me sad. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:28 IntoTheEmo wrote: Certain people like massing bread and butter units that can counter most things like Marines and Stalkers. With Roaches and Lings you're usually forced into making something else especially since they aren't capable of hitting air, sometimes I just feel like massing 1 unit and face rolling -> BW Hydra That would be fun on occasion, sure, but it goes deeper than that. Terran and Protoss tech trees are quicker to traverse, and they solve their problems with tech. Terran sees roaches, or a lot of lings? The answer is bunkers and then tanks: a small number of higher-tech units. And if he happens to be teching to banshees, that's also at least decent against roaches. Same with Protoss: the answer to problems is typically a small number of higher-tech units. Losing? Down on bases? May as well try some DTs. For Zerg, the answer always seems to be less tech. Protoss opens air? Make queens and drones and spores. Don't try to solve the problem with tech (hydra). And I wasn't kidding about the baneling thread: one of the most recent guides I read talked about how bad banelings were for the Zerg economy and how mass lings were a perfectly adequate face with which to stop the 10:00 marine/tank fist. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:21 Umpteen wrote: they solve their problems with tech. I actually don't agree with this for either Terran or Protoss. The big problem with Zerg in comparison to the other two races is that their base army units are incapable of handling most things your opponent can throw at you. Marines are good against EVERYTHING... seriously. Top-level TvZ involves 8+ Barracks pumping out marines as fast as possible. For support, you see a maximum of 2 factories and 1 starport. The punch to the face is delivered by the marines, not the tanks. TvP is a little different due to the Colossus, but it's the same idea, just using Marauders, not Marines. For Protoss it's a little different, but still the same idea with Stalkers. In PvZ, you can win entire games off of Stalkers with very few other units. 4-gate, 6-gate +1, 7-gate +2 There's pretty much no reason you don't want as many Stalkers as possible in PvZ. PvT is a little harder because Marines and Marauders shit on everything in existence, but the same principles apply. You want as many Stalkers as you can afford while throwing a giant wall of Zealots in front of them to take all the damage, unfortunately the current state of PvT leaves room for about 0 Stalkers, but that's more of an issue with the Marine/Marauder ball IMO. Zerg on the other hand... Lings are nice... they're fucking awesome. Unfortunately, you typically can't get more than 10-15 of them attacking at the same time. Roaches are shit. Banelings are too expensive. Hydras... Mutas can't fight straight-up. Corruptors can't shoot down. Infestors need energy. Ultras... almost as bad as Hydras. Broodlords are actually quite good, unfortunately it takes longer to get to Broodlords than ANY OTHER UNIT IN THE GAME. Nothing in the Zerg army is capable of acting as a face-puncher. You MUST use multiple unit types or bury your opponent in money if you want to be effective. If Blizzard made the Hydra better, Zerg would instantly become 100x more playable. Cutting tech or rushing tech would become a choice, not a requirement. Really... the lack of the Hydra has been the core of Zerg issues from day 1. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:21 Umpteen wrote: That would be fun on occasion, sure, but it goes deeper than that. Terran and Protoss tech trees are quicker to traverse, and they solve their problems with tech. Terran sees roaches, or a lot of lings? The answer is bunkers and then tanks: a small number of higher-tech units. And if he happens to be teching to banshees, that's also at least decent against roaches. Same with Protoss: the answer to problems is typically a small number of higher-tech units. Losing? Down on bases? May as well try some DTs. For Zerg, the answer always seems to be less tech. Protoss opens air? Make queens and drones and spores. Don't try to solve the problem with tech (hydra). And I wasn't kidding about the baneling thread: one of the most recent guides I read talked about how bad banelings were for the Zerg economy and how mass lings were a perfectly adequate face with which to stop the 10:00 marine/tank fist. Yeah that's a reasonable observation. You're right. I was lurking around the SC2 strat forums and noticed new interest in like no gas builds that rely on slow lings on creep vs Protoss and whatnot. We definitely need that Power unit at the Lair stage to look forward to. I guess that's why Mutalisks are the only thing that appeal to me aside from the standard Ling pressure/pokes; they allow you to be in the face of your opponent, instead of waiting to defend the fist with your face - as you put it. I pretty much open Spire once I feel safe with Ling numbers and whatnot regardless of their unit composition otherwise I'd be mega bored sitting around with Roaches waiting on Infestors. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:42 Jermstuddog wrote: I actually don't agree with this for either Terran or Protoss. The big problem with Zerg in comparison to the other two races is that their base army units are incapable of handling most things your opponent can throw at you. Marines are good against EVERYTHING... seriously. Top-level TvZ involves 8+ Barracks pumping out marines as fast as possible. For support, you see a maximum of 2 factories and 1 starport. The punch to the face is delivered by the marines, not the tanks. They're the dps, yes, but Terrans solve the evolving problem of delivering that dps and protecting their bases with small numbers of higher tech units. Stay on pure marine too long and Zerg can lumber into a tech lead and start trading cost effectively. Part of zerg's problem is that small numbers of high tech units aren't useful, so you need a larger army to be safe while you make them. Which also deters zergs from getting funky upgrades or utility like Nydus. And you end up with these hard to judge timings for getting corruptors against a deathball, where teching too quickly to a useless unit gets you killed. Only in sc2 could zerg have a unit, the best counter to which is to not build anything it can kill. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
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